Shut down ON cycle

[Xander24]

Hey guys,

I've been on cycle for about 12 weeks now. I'm 35, have done numerous cycles before,but never expereinced erectile dysfunction before. I am now and I suspect it is estrogen.

I am taking 300mg of prop a week for the entire 12 weeks. Week 2 -10 I ran tren A. The first 4 weeks of tren A I was so horny, but then my sex drive went a way completely. At that point I stopped the tren as I do love sex, and I started taking Prami, which actually worked in both sexual desire as well as strong erections. Still taking the prami, but now I am experiencing just really soft erections and an inability to maintain them. It's so embarrassing and I don't know what to tell the lady.

I had some aromison so I have been taking 12.5mg every 3rd day. It wasn't working that well so I changed it to 10mg every day for the last 3 days. My desire is still there and I can get wood, but it's hard to maintain. Yes, I do think about it during sex, so there probably is a psych factor going on here.

Today I was finally able to get into the doc for some blood work today. I am getting the following tested and should have results by mid week next week:

Testosterone: Free and Total
E2
LH
Full Blood Count
T3 T4
DHEA-S

I guess I want some opinions on what you guys think it may be. I am a bit worried that the aromison will mess up my test results and mask the estrogen problem if it is too high, it may now be normal, or even low. Trying to dial this in has been frustrating and I've never had issues with sexual function as I alway run low doses of test; never more than 300mg. 2nd time using tren, and it was good, but I still like masteron better. In the mean time I am going to get some proverin and I am getting some Nolva, Clomid, more aromison, and more Prami for my upcoming aggressive as hell PCT. Hitting the HCG 2 weeks prior to my last shot, but before I do PCT I want to know exactly what has caused this erectile dysfunction. The tren probably induced it is my theory. Any input, experiences or questions would be greatly appreciated. Not maintaining wood sucks, and I am over having to pop a v when I want to have sex. Thanks

[woodpecker]

Im no expert so wait for someone with more knowledge than myself. But Shouldnt you have been using like caber to prevent increase prolactin which would lower your test and possibly shut you down.

[Xander24]

Im no expert so wait for someone with more knowledge than myself. But Shouldnt you have been using like caber to prevent increase prolactin which would lower your test and possibly shut you down.

I am, just prami, not caber. Been using prami for over a month now with mixed results.

[numbere]

You need to have a complete hormone assay done that includes a sensitive E2 essay and prolactin. This is the only way to know for sure otherwise we are completely guessing as to why you are suffering from ED. An AI is meant to be taken the entire cycle, from start to finish. Not just when symptoms of high E2 occur. You should be dosing stane at 12.5mg twice a day and taken with dietary fats to increase absorption. It would also be in your best interest to begin taking hCG at 250IU every 3.5 days. This will hasten recovery.

[Xander24]

Wow, that's a good deal of stane to take. I was under the impression that could bring my E2 down to the too low range and the ED would remain. Been dosing it at 12.5mg every 3rd day. I've got HCG on the way, and will begin taking that very soon. When my blood test results arrive next week I'll post. Didn't include prolactin as it wasn't covered on my insurance.

[numbere]

Wow, that's a good deal of stane to take. I was under the impression that could bring my E2 down to the too low range and the ED would remain. Been dosing it at 12.5mg every 3rd day. I've got HCG on the way, and will begin taking that very soon. When my blood test results arrive next week I'll post. Didn't include prolactin as it wasn't covered on my insurance.

If you are skeptical of my advise on stane dosage than you can read for yourself in the below thread.

Ancillary Reference Guide

It is going to take 8-10 days of taking stane before stable serum levels are reached and you begin to feel the effects. I doubt the amount you took prior to your lab will have any affect on your results. In order to get a genuine reading of your E2 you need a sensitive E2 assay. Private MD Labs offers blood work without the need of a prescription or insurance.

[RangerDanger830]

If you are skeptical of my advise on stane dosage than you can read for yourself in the below thread.

Ancillary Reference Guide

It is going to take 8-10 days of taking stane before stable serum levels are reached and you begin to feel the effects. I doubt the amount you took prior to your lab will have any affect on your results. In order to get a genuine reading of your E2 you need a sensitive E2 assay. Private MD Labs offers blood work without the need of a prescription or insurance.

I would like to say that I agree with numbere in saying that we will not know until your results are back. If I was a betting man I would bet on it being due to high estrogen since you seem to be erratic with your AI, but we will know for sure once the results are in.

I want to add that if high estrogen is the problem, or even high prolactin, it will take more than a couple of days before things to return to normal from the point that you get your AI/PA dialed in. If the increased AI dosage does not work in a few more days then I would worry.

[Xander24]

I would like to say that I agree with numbere in saying that we will not know until your results are back. If I was a betting man I would bet on it being due to high estrogen since you seem to be erratic with your AI, but we will know for sure once the results are in.

I want to add that if high estrogen is the problem, or even high prolactin, it will take more than a couple of days before things to return to normal from the point that you get your AI/PA dialed in. If the increased AI dosage does not work in a few more days then I would worry.

OK, great. Thanks guys. I'm ramping it up. Got nothing to lose at this point...will keep you posted on everything. Thanks for replying as it is greatly appreciated

[Capebuffalo]

Just throwing this out. Your profile says 37 not 35. And in most cases the number next to you screen name is your age. Just an observation. Carry on.

[Xander24]

I'm 35, when signing up I must have hit 7 instead of 5. I also can't get into my profile to edit it. The number next to my screen name is a number I have for a sport I play. I did however do my first cycle at the young age of 24. Seems like yesterday. Either way, I'm getting old. Sigh....

[Xander24]

Gents, should I continue taking the prami along with the stane? It's an interesting compound, and I do still have desire to have sex. Not sure how much the prami plays a role.

[carbo]

I'm talking generally here, but from my experience with ED, sex drive issues and Tren-

While on Tren - prolactin/estrogen issues -> dopamine agonist, AI
After stopping Tren - drop in angrogen levels -> add DHT derivative (Mast, Proviron)

[Xander24]

I'm talking generally here, but from my experience with ED, sex drive issues and Tren-

While on Tren - prolactin/estrogen issues -> dopamine agonist, AI
After stopping Tren - drop in angrogen levels -> add DHT derivative (Mast, Proviron)

Thanks, mate
Excellent as I have both masteron and proviron on hand. I've taken 25mg of stane today. And I also have some HCG coming. I guess when I get my erections back to full strength I'll drop down to 12.5 mg of the stane and continue with the HCG until I finish the mast. Then it's time for an aggressive PCT of clomid, nolva, stane, and will drop the proviron down to 25mg from 50. If I'm not fixed by PCT I'll be blown away.

[numbere]

Thanks, mate
Excellent as I have both masteron and proviron on hand. I've taken 25mg of stane today. And I also have some HCG coming. I guess when I get my erections back to full strength I'll drop down to 12.5 mg of the stane and continue with the HCG until I finish the mast. Then it's time for an aggressive PCT of clomid, nolva, stane, and will drop the proviron down to 25mg from 50. If I'm not fixed by PCT I'll be blown away.

If 25mg of stane works at keeping E2 within range it makes no sense to take a smaller dosage once serum levels have stabilized. An AI isn't needed during PCT. It is debatable whether provision is repressive but that's a whole other topic I would rather not get into. You should only use nolva and clomid for PCT.

[Xander24]

If 25mg of stane works at keeping E2 within range it makes no sense to take a smaller dosage once serum levels have stabilized. An AI isn't needed during PCT. It is debatable whether provision is repressive but that's a whole other topic I would rather not get into. You should only use nolva and clomid for PCT.

OK, Blood test results in:

Oestrodiol: 159 (pmol/L <150) Elevated

LH: <1 (IU/L (2-8) Normal

Testosterone: 60nmol/L (8 - 30) Very elevated. Supplementing 300mgs per week so no surprise here

SHBG: 24 nmol/L (17 - 66) Normal

Free Test 1891 pmol/L (170 -500) Very elevated. Supplementing 300mgs per week so no surprise here

Free T4: <5 (9 - 25) Supplementing 75mcgs / day of T3 so no surprise here
TSH: .01 (.35 - 5.50) Supplementing 75mcgs / day of T3 so no surprise here
Free T3: 19.6 (3.5 - 6.5) Supplementing 75mcgs / day of T3 so no surprise here

Calcium: 2.46 (2.15 - 2.55) Normal
Adj. Ca: 2.42 (2.15 - 2.55) Normal
Magnesium: .83 (.7 - 1.1) Normal
Phosphate: 1.32 (.75 -1.5) Normal
Albumin: 43 (35- 50) Normal

Haematology General: Red Cell, White cell and platelet parameters are within normal limits with mildly raised ESR. ESR: 25 (<11 nm/h)

DHEA: 7.4 umol/l (2.2 -12.4) Normal

Satisfactory LDL cholesterol, but note low HDL cholesterol HDL: .9 (>1.0) Low

LDL/HDL Ratio: 2.1
Chol/HDL Ratio: 3.8

So I would have to think that the erectile dysfunction I am experiencing is from the elevated oestrogen. The problem is I am now out of exemestane, and because in Australia the drug is restricted the doc won't prescribe it to me. I ordered more online, but it takes 3 weeks to get here from the USA. She recommended me to an Endo, but in OZ they won't touch you if you supplement hormones, and all they really concentrate on here is thyroid function anyway. I guess I hit Cialis until i can get my stane in and start hitting 25mg/day to stabilise my serum levels.

Numbere, I await your input as it has been most valuable to me. Thanks for your help and thanks in advance for any input you can provide me moving forward. I look forward to it.

One more question on top of the advice you can provide regarding the bloods. I have a bit of Nolva and clomid on hand from my last PCT. What if I were to take those right now while waiting for my stand. Any possible benefit or I am i just confusing the hell out of my body doing that?

[Xander24]

bump

[RangerDanger830]

An AI is an aromatase inhibitor. Think of aromatase, aka estrogen synthase, as a primary means to increase estrogen in your body as it biosynthesizes it primarily through converting androgens (which is what you are elevating in your body) into dirty nasty estrogens.

An inhibitor works via two diffierent mechanisms, actively or allosterically. In an active inhibition the AI (adex or whatever you use) binds to the aromatase's active site). In doing this is essentially, in layman's terms, blocks any androgens from binding to the aromatase since the binding sight is already being occupied, kind of like a parking spot. Since no androgens can bind to the aromatase enzyme, the enzyme cannot make estrogen, yay.

In an allosteric inhibition the inhibitor binds to the allosteric site, which is any sight but the active sight. In doing so the inhibitor essentially changes the active site's shape so nothing can bind to it either, therefore no androgen to estrogen reactions can occur via the enzyme.

This is why it is so important to take an AI while on a cycle because on cycle you are experiencing a large amount of androgen in your body which can equate to a larger amount of estrogen in your body. Estrogen can cause gyno obviously, without it women would not have breasts, among other things.

The Nolva now, is an antagonist of estrogen which focuses primarily on your breast tissue, which can prevent and treat gyno along with other SERMs. In order for you to get gyno there has to be a significant amount of estrogen binding to the receptors in your breast tissue. What Nolva and other SERMs do is they bind to your breast receptors in the same way estrogen does. The different here is that the SERMs like Nolva do not activate the receptors. Essentially they are just stealing the parking space without creating gyno.

Now that I have concluded my bio 101 lecture I will get to the point here. Taking a reasonable dose of Nolva daily, 20mg per se, will help you prevent the onset of gyno if that is indeed what you have. So yes, take some until you get your AI. Now in doing this your estrogen in your body will not bind with your breast tissue and give you gyno. But you will still have high estrogen which means the other sides effects of having high estrogen will still be present.

[numbere]

To be honest I'm not convinced that elevated E2 is the cause of your ED problems. According to the above lab your E2 is 159 pmol/L or about 43.3 pg/ml. When on cycle or TRT a E2 level below 50 pg/ml is acceptable as long as you are feeling well. It is possible that you are sensitive to E2, but I'm more inclined to believe that you have elevated prolactin or progesterone levels from the 19nor. How much tren were you taking? What products are you taking right now and how much longer do you plan on running this cycle?

[Xander24]

I ran 50mg EOD of tren for almost 8 weeks. Pretty much the Minimum dose as usual with all compounds I run. I plan on running another 6 weeks as I want to add masteron to finish this off as I am sub 10% BF and looking ripped as can be. Now, I have been taking a gram of Prami for the past 6 weeks. Doesn't that lower prolactin? Can I have elevated prolactin running that much prami? Took a bit to work my way up to that dose as I got nauseous even at the lowest recommended dose, but it's all good now.

Currently just running:
300mg/ week of test prop
75mcgs T3/day
Just started 50mg/provarin

I have been able to source some adex which will be here in a few days as my stane is going to take 3 weeks to arrive. will run the adex at 25mg EOD
And i have HCG on the way. Masteron is on the way too.

[Xander24]

An AI is an aromatase inhibitor. Think of aromatase, aka estrogen synthase, as a primary means to increase estrogen in your body as it biosynthesizes it primarily through converting androgens (which is what you are elevating in your body) into dirty nasty estrogens.

An inhibitor works via two diffierent mechanisms, actively or allosterically. In an active inhibition the AI (adex or whatever you use) binds to the aromatase's active site). In doing this is essentially, in layman's terms, blocks any androgens from binding to the aromatase since the binding sight is already being occupied, kind of like a parking spot. Since no androgens can bind to the aromatase enzyme, the enzyme cannot make estrogen, yay.

In an allosteric inhibition the inhibitor binds to the allosteric site, which is any sight but the active sight. In doing so the inhibitor essentially changes the active site's shape so nothing can bind to it either, therefore no androgen to estrogen reactions can occur via the enzyme.

This is why it is so important to take an AI while on a cycle because on cycle you are experiencing a large amount of androgen in your body which can equate to a larger amount of estrogen in your body. Estrogen can cause gyno obviously, without it women would not have breasts, among other things.

The Nolva now, is an antagonist of estrogen which focuses primarily on your breast tissue, which can prevent and treat gyno along with other SERMs. In order for you to get gyno there has to be a significant amount of estrogen binding to the receptors in your breast tissue. What Nolva and other SERMs do is they bind to your breast receptors in the same way estrogen does. The different here is that the SERMs like Nolva do not activate the receptors. Essentially they are just stealing the parking space without creating gyno.

Now that I have concluded my bio 101 lecture I will get to the point here. Taking a reasonable dose of Nolva daily, 20mg per se, will help you prevent the onset of gyno if that is indeed what you have. So yes, take some until you get your AI. Now in doing this your estrogen in your body will not bind with your breast tissue and give you gyno. But you will still have high estrogen which means the other sides effects of having high estrogen will still be present.

Thanks brother. I must admit that I am embarrassed all around. I've been cycling for over a decade and was of the incorrect presence of mind that you only take an AI when needed. For me it never was. I have always run the lowest dose possible, and the harshest compound I ever really ran before this tren was masteron. My lesson is learned here. I pray this is elevated estrogen and I can fix this. 159 isn't crazy high, but it is high and is at least something to eliminate through the process of elimination. I will also continue to take my prami until it is gone.

[numbere]

1mg of prami ED should be enough to control prolactin. To be honest the only way to know for sure is to get a complete hormone panel along with a sensitive E2 assay. Without that data we're really just making educated guesses. It's good to hear you have dex on the way because I was going to advise you to stop cycling if you had to go 3 weeks without an AI.

[Xander24]

Also, I was erratically taking the stane before the bloods were done and the morning of my blood test. So it is also possible (just possible) that it did slightly lower a very elevated E2 level. This is just a guess though.

[Capebuffalo]

Also, I was erratically taking the stane before the bloods were done and the morning of my blood test. So it is also possible (just possible) that it did slightly lower a very elevated E2 level. This is just a guess though.

If you were erratically taking stane probably not. Let's say it is a milder ai.

[Xander24]

Yes, bro, I am going to hit the AI starting at weeks end when I get it in my hands. So the prami is legit, so I think we can eliminate prolactin issues. It's gotta be E2 or just my mind messing with my boys. But I am getting the HCG, which i will run:
Mon Thurs at 250iu per jab
Prami: 1mg/day
adex at 25mg eod
provarin 50mg ED
masteron prop 400mg/week
Test prop 300mg/week

If that doesn't get me horny as hell and functional as can be then I might as well cut my nuts off because I am dead to rights.

[Capebuffalo]

You've been on 12 weeks. Stop. Run pct. Wait. Get BW done. Stop putting things in your body. You were never educated enough to run a cycle. Stop run pct.

[clarky.]

I ran 50mg EOD of tren for almost 8 weeks. Pretty much the Minimum dose as usual with all compounds I run. I plan on running another 6 weeks as I want to add masteron to finish this off as I am sub 10% BF and looking ripped as can be. Now, I have been taking a gram of Prami for the past 6 weeks. Doesn't that lower prolactin? Can I have elevated prolactin running that much prami? Took a bit to work my way up to that dose as I got nauseous even at the lowest recommended dose, but it's all good now.

Currently just running:
300mg/ week of test prop
75mcgs T3/day
Just started 50mg/provarin

I have been able to source some adex which will be here in a few days as my stane is going to take 3 weeks to arrive. will run the adex at 25mg EOD
And i have HCG on the way. Masteron is on the way too.

Typo on the adex xander ? .25 eod not 25mg eod. 1 mg off prami a day is plenty but we are all different you should have got this checked when you got your blood work done. And last get all your sh*t together before you start a cycle man.

[Xander24]

Yes typo on the adex, .25 every other day. And point taken, dude. Point bloody taken as I deserve that.

[Xander24]

"You've been on 12 weeks. Stop. Run pct. Wait. Get BW done. Stop putting things in your body. You were never educated enough to run a cycle. Stop run pct."

You don't think I should run HCG before I stop cold turkey?

[Capebuffalo]

You can run it between cycle end and pct. Just don't during pct. Not optimal.

[RangerDanger830]

Definitely do not run HCG for PCT. Just do Nolva/Clo combo for four weeks and call it good. You need to get some post cycle bloodwork done for sure. There really is no way for us to even guess what caused the onset of gyno, or gyno if you already have it just because your AI and PA doses were not consistent. I would take the advice of others and stop now and if your gyno symptoms do not subside during PCT I would consider a regimen of Raloxifene at 60mg/day until they are gone.

[Xander24]

Definitely do not run HCG for PCT. Just do Nolva/Clo combo for four weeks and call it good. You need to get some post cycle bloodwork done for sure. There really is no way for us to even guess what caused the onset of gyno, or gyno if you already have it just because your AI and PA doses were not consistent. I would take the advice of others and stop now and if your gyno symptoms do not subside during PCT I would consider a regimen of Raloxifene at 60mg/day until they are gone.

Bro, I don't have gyno and I am not prone to it. As a matter of fact I've never had any negative side effects running 300mg of testosterone before. This time however it's just erectile dysfunction. Gotta pop a v-bomb or a c-bomb to get wood right now. Desire is still there. But I'm going to finish this vial of prop. About 5 jabs left, started running the HCG today, then do nova and clomid and see where I land. The lesson for me here is to run stane throughout the cycle to control oestrogen. Never doing tren again as it is way more negative than positive for me. Insane leg and ab crams that I can't get on top of.

[darkcrayz]

I had an issue when I had to switch from Aromasin to Letro for a while and I miss dosed and killed my estrogen and that screwed up my libido. I would guess estro or progest is the problem. Just need to get things balanced.

Getting labs and not taking an AI will reveal your true estrogen but will only really tell you what you are already assuming.

[RangerDanger830]

I do not think the answer is to never do Tren again, although you should hold off a bit. I do not want others reading this to think Tren is not worth it because it definitely is for most of us. The reason it has sucked for you so much is just because you made a few mistakes. Just learn from it this experience and keep reading on here.

You should have ran the AI throughout the entire cycle. Some choose to keep a PA on hand, others choose to take it throughout as well. I take a PA throughout my whole cycle because I am prone to gyno and because I have insomnia and prami helps a lot.

Also, consider taking HCG throughout the entire cycle. I am steering you in the right direction in saying this, Austinite has a thread on here about HCG and it should tell you why.

I am not sure where I got that you had gyno from, maybe I read something wrong, but no worries. I do not know your stats but being 35 you should just recover from this, do more research, and try again when you are ready. Assuming you have a decent base and don't weight 130lbs that is.

[darkcrayz]

I do not think the answer is to never do Tren again, although you should hold off a bit. I do not want others reading this to think Tren is not worth it because it definitely is for most of us. The reason it has sucked for you so much is just because you made a few mistakes. Just learn from it this experience and keep reading on here.

You should have ran the AI throughout the entire cycle. Some choose to keep a PA on hand, others choose to take it throughout as well. I take a PA throughout my whole cycle because I am prone to gyno and because I have insomnia and prami helps a lot.

Also, consider taking HCG throughout the entire cycle. I am steering you in the right direction in saying this, Austinite has a thread on here about HCG and it should tell you why.

I am not sure where I got that you had gyno from, maybe I read something wrong, but no worries. I do not know your stats but being 35 you should just recover from this, do more research, and try again when you are ready. Assuming you have a decent base and don't weight 130lbs that is.

Ranger, I have read that Prami can cause insomnia and not tren. Either way, on tren on the nights I do or don't dose with Prami I still get insomnia so I can't say.

As for the OP, like Ranger said, dropping Tren is not the answer. Just more research and possibly a lower dose next time.

[RangerDanger830]

Ranger, I have read that Prami can cause insomnia and not tren. Either way, on tren on the nights I do or don't dose with Prami I still get insomnia so I can't say.

As for the OP, like Ranger said, dropping Tren is not the answer. Just more research and possibly a lower dose next time.

If it was me I would resort back to Deca with a little more research. That would give me time to learn more about Tren.

Everyone does say Tren causes insomnia but I cannot comment because I had it long before Tren, Tren didn't make it any worse at least. I have never really talked to anyone about Prami putting me down except for one friend of mine and it does him too. I have never slept better in my life. I guess everyone reacts to the drug a little differently though.

[darkcrayz]

If it was me I would resort back to Deca with a little more research. That would give me time to learn more about Tren.

Everyone does say Tren causes insomnia but I cannot comment because I had it long before Tren, Tren didn't make it any worse at least. I have never really talked to anyone about Prami putting me down except for one friend of mine and it does him too. I have never slept better in my life. I guess everyone reacts to the drug a little differently though.

Thanks for the response.

[SEOINAGE]

Bro, I don't have gyno and I am not prone to it. As a matter of fact I've never had any negative side effects running 300mg of testosterone before. This time however it's just erectile dysfunction. Gotta pop a v-bomb or a c-bomb to get wood right now. Desire is still there. But I'm going to finish this vial of prop. About 5 jabs left, started running the HCG today, then do nova and clomid and see where I land. The lesson for me here is to run stane throughout the cycle to control oestrogen. Never doing tren again as it is way more negative than positive for me. Insane leg and ab crams that I can't get on top of.

I'm excited for my tren cycle to be over, actually ending it 2 weeks early. Mainly the cramps are ridiculous, wake up every morning and can barely stand up because calves are so stiff, and it happens each time I stand up. Not positive it is just the tren, but almost positive. I have managed to keep things under control with ai and caber, so no other issues with sexual function or other things that would make me instantly drop cycle, in fact I believe I crashed my e2 prior to cycle, brought it back up but crashed it again mid cycle, Been without ai for a while now on this cycle and sexual function has greatly improved.

The way I see it is during cycle you can make things the best possible, as close to normal or mitigate sides as much as possible, but honestly I think this is the point you end your cycle if you are trying to get back to normal. Unless you are just trying to mitigate the issues, but when you are varying doses, taking different compounds it almost is a bit of guess work to get things right. But you should be able to get pretty close initially, I just think capebuffalo is right on this one and you didn't have the knowledge you needed and should come off and fix the issue.

[RangerDanger830]

I'm excited for my tren cycle to be over, actually ending it 2 weeks early. Mainly the cramps are ridiculous, wake up every morning and can barely stand up because calves are so stiff, and it happens each time I stand up. Not positive it is just the tren, but almost positive. I have managed to keep things under control with ai and caber, so no other issues with sexual function or other things that would make me instantly drop cycle, in fact I believe I crashed my e2 prior to cycle, brought it back up but crashed it again mid cycle, Been without ai for a while now on this cycle and sexual function has greatly improved.

The way I see it is during cycle you can make things the best possible, as close to normal or mitigate sides as much as possible, but honestly I think this is the point you end your cycle if you are trying to get back to normal. Unless you are just trying to mitigate the issues, but when you are varying doses, taking different compounds it almost is a bit of guess work to get things right. But you should be able to get pretty close initially, I just think capebuffalo is right on this one and you didn't have the knowledge you needed and should come off and fix the issue.

I have never heard of Tren making you cramp more, I have only seen that in thermogenics. I have never had cramps from Tren, not that I am saying they do not cause them. I just think the culprit is something else, a deficiency somewhere.

Taurine, potassium, and water helps a lot as well as getting the electrolytes you need.

[qscgugcsq]

I have never heard of Tren making you cramp more, I have only seen that in thermogenics. I have never had cramps from Tren, not that I am saying they do not cause them. I just think the culprit is something else, a deficiency somewhere.

Taurine, potassium, and water helps a lot as well as getting the electrolytes you need.

Maybe tren increase the risk of deficiency cause Ive seen increase rate of cramp on tren.

I get cramp in my biceps/brachio-radial for the first time.in my life while on tren(both arm).
Often got hamstring cramp while benching.
Damn even got cramp on my abs...(thats was damn weird...)

So I have no doubt tren contribute to cramps

[SEOINAGE]

Well I recently brought my iron up to almost where it needs to be but it is in range, but haven't noticed anything else being off. Tried magnesium, calcium supps, eating bananas and avacados etc. This week it was in the biceps, hold the arm bent for a little while then you can't straighten it, so not like a typical cramp where it just balls up with intense pain briefly. Dropping tren in less than two weeks, so maybe if it persists I will have to look into it more. I consume gatorade with leucine during every training session, consume large amounts of water throughout the day as well. Not to mention I consume plenty of salt.