Too fat for a cycle?

[Fergsmca]

Ok so another question relating body fat to steroid use. I have read numerous articles and posts on this forum regarding the matter and found it to be very contradictive.
First of all I started training 2 years ago. I started at 130kg I'm down to 100kg. I'd still say 20-23 %bf though. Most of the fat is on my stomach and upper legs. I don't do a whole lot of cardio. My diet and lifting has help me shed kilos so far. But I've come to a stand still the last few months.
I want to know who has done a cycle of test at this stage. I have Clen and t3 already and was going to use along with the test to preserve muscle while I cut hard.
My other question is if I run arimidex while on cycle will that prevent all estrogen sides or does it also depend on your body fat. Eg more adex needed for higher body fat. Any help is greatly appreciated

[Times Roman]

best if you knocked it down to at least 15%. short time in the gym too. recommend a couple more years and build up your foundation and increase strength of connective tissue

[Fergsmca]

The only reason I am considering it is because I'm going to be using Clen and t3 and I'm concerned about the muscle wasting on t3. I was only going to do a low dose 200-250 mg a week. Would this be enough to preserve muscle while on t3. I'm not trying to get massive

[derekkpapa1]

Post up a pic for bf% estimate

[Khazima]

The only reason I am considering it is because I'm going to be using Clen and t3 and I'm concerned about the muscle wasting on t3. I was only going to do a low dose 200-250 mg a week. Would this be enough to preserve muscle while on t3. I'm not trying to get massive

Just cut out the T3 if that's your only worry. Albuterol has better muscle saving properties than clen I believe. Just keep the intensity up and the slower you cut the less muscle you'll waste.

[Fergsmca]

[Fergsmca]

[Fergsmca]

[Fergsmca]

There you go

[Khazima]

I'd say 25% +

Way to much bodyfat to cycle, just use diet and cardio to get 12-15%

[Back In Black]

I'd say 25% +

Way to much bodyfat to cycle, just use diet and cardio to get 12-15%

Agreed.

And, tbh, you don't look like you lift, I'd spend a lot of time in our diet AND workout sections learning and applying over the next 6-12 months and then see where you are.

Good luck

[derekkpapa1]

Don't get discouraged.
Keep hitting the gym keep on dieting and the results will come before you know it seems like you just need little help in diet area so post you full diet in the nutrition section and let the pro's look at it.
If I were you I would eat 300 under tdee (high protein) hit gym and lift first then hit Cardio Second (not starting that debate again)
Get into a solid routine in lifting and Cardo and stick with it.
Newbe gains are amazing.
Good luck and check back in with results in 6 months.

[ScotchGuard02]

My personal feeling is that if you want to lose fat I would run both clen and T3. Yes, you're gonna get some muscle atrophy. I'm assuming that once you're down to 15% or so you're gonna cycle AAS so you're gonna rebuild your muscular mass. The goal is to drop body fat. So drop body fat. Diet, cardi with clen/T3. My .02

[Fergsmca]

Thanks guys.

[m314]

High body fat usually means higher estrogen and lower testosterone than you're capable of producing. An aromatase inhibitor like aromasin could boost your natural test levels while reducing estrogen levels. Higher test and lower estrogen would make cutting "naturally" an easier task.

Aromasin + clen / T3 would give you better results than just clen / T3, assuming you're doing the right thing with diet and training. This kind of cycle doesn't shut down your natural test production, so no PCT is needed.

[Heapsreal]

Agree, low dose of an AI may help you drop more weight. Get blood work done first. A good dose of arimidex if not on T is .25mg twice a week.
Done well dropping 30kg. Metformin is something else that may help you drop some more weight as it improves insulin sensitivity and can help reduce your appetitte .

[RangerDanger830]

I would not recommend taking an AI unless you get bloodwork indicating high estrogen. If you are at a stand still where you are at now then there is an issue with your diet, especially if you are burning a few hundred calories in the gym. I would start by figuring out what the problem there is.

At your body fat percentage you should be seeing weekly weight loss if you have a pretty good diet and workout routine. The diet section is where you need to focus the majority of your research for now.

[m314]

Aromasin at 25 mg or 50 mg daily increased the testosterone levels by 60% and 56% in this study. This was with healthy young men.

Pharmacokinetics and dose finding of a - PubMed Mobile

Arimidex at 1 mg/day roughly doubled testosterone levels in older men.

Effects of aromatase inhibition in e... [J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI

Letrozole at 2.5 mg/week more than tripled testosterone levels in obese men. It raised free testosterone to supraphysiological levels in more than half of the test subjects.

Letrozole once a week normalizes serum - PubMed Mobile

Blood work is a good thing, obviously. I just know what I'd do personally if I had more body fat and was still "natural". Meaning not already on TRT. If my estradiol was anything above low normal, I'd start an AI. And get blood work done again in a few weeks to see if it's working.

Diet is still the most important thing. The right diet with optimal hormone levels will help you reach your goal faster than the same diet with low test / high estogen.

[Heapsreal]

Need to be careful not to drop E2 too low or you will be in constant pain, muscle aches etc.
E2 is a balance thing.

[GGot FFina?]

I would definitely not do a cycle on that percentage of body fat. The biggest problem is that if you are not able to drop the body fat before the cycle, they you will definitely not drop it while on cycle. The end result will not be very good or could actually be horrible in the way you end up looking and will greatly disappoint you in the end.

Remember that steroids are not a magic potion that will make you look great without you dieting. If anything it will make you look worse after the cycle if you dont diet and start at that high a percentage of body fat.
After this cycle, with out you dieting, you will end up being a little stronger maybe and will look like a bulkier version of how you look now. Trust me it wont be good. I have made that mistake before i learned how to diet.

Take peoples advice here. Get down to at least 15% bodyfat or lower before you start to do this because how you ultimately look is all dependent on your body fat percentage.

Good luck!

[Fergsmca]

Thanks for all your input.
As is said I don't do much cardio. I focused more on weight training because from what I've read it's supposed to burn more calories than running on a treadmill. I've been working out 3 days a week sometimes 4 or 5 depending on work. 3 excercises 3 sets for each muscle group. I'll keep at it and try do some cardio on days off. I know I have to get my diet sorted out but it seems so hard to get it right. I mean eating a certain amount of calories I understand it's just implementing the right foods at the right time that I'm having trouble with. I honestly think some days if be eating way under my needs then must be over eating on other days.

[GGot FFina?]

Cardio will only do so much and will in no way even begin to make a dent on a horrible diet. You can cardio 5 hours a day and eat horrible and not see a change. I know, since i usually do no cardio when i cut and i always get down to 7-8% for the summer months.

Head on over to the diet section and read up the how to cut sticky. Start there and add or take away a few things to fit your body's needs. I guarantee you, you will see better results from a cutting diet in 1 month, than you have from all your years training and not dieting.

[_-KL-_]

Thanks for all your input.
As is said I don't do much cardio. I focused more on weight training because from what I've read it's supposed to burn more calories than running on a treadmill. I've been working out 3 days a week sometimes 4 or 5 depending on work. 3 excercises 3 sets for each muscle group. I'll keep at it and try do some cardio on days off. I know I have to get my diet sorted out but it seems so hard to get it right. I mean eating a certain amount of calories I understand it's just implementing the right foods at the right time that I'm having trouble with. I honestly think some days if be eating way under my needs then must be over eating on other days.

Check this out man. Tons of awesome info here.
http://forums.steroid.com/diet-nutri...mple-diet.html

Start incorporating cardio. You'd be surprised how many calories you burn on the elliptical machine.

[PistolPete33]

I agree with others. Learn to diet and keep training. Learn here about eating and training and that will get you the results you're looking for.

[RangerDanger830]

Aromasin at 25 mg or 50 mg daily increased the testosterone levels by 60% and 56% in this study. This was with healthy young men.

Pharmacokinetics and dose finding of a - PubMed Mobile

Arimidex at 1 mg/day roughly doubled testosterone levels in older men.

Effects of aromatase inhibition in e... [J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2004] - PubMed - NCBI

Letrozole at 2.5 mg/week more than tripled testosterone levels in obese men. It raised free testosterone to supraphysiological levels in more than half of the test subjects.

Letrozole once a week normalizes serum - PubMed Mobile

Blood work is a good thing, obviously. I just know what I'd do personally if I had more body fat and was still "natural". Meaning not already on TRT. If my estradiol was anything above low normal, I'd start an AI. And get blood work done again in a few weeks to see if it's working.

Diet is still the most important thing. The right diet with optimal hormone levels will help you reach your goal faster than the same diet with low test / high estogen.

I understand the desire to post studies to justify your claims but that does not change the fact that he should not take an AI if he has healthy estrogen levels. He should only take one if he has bloodwork indicating high levels. If he does so with a normal level of estrogen then he runs the risk of becoming hypoestrogenic and I am sure there are studies that will tell you why that is bad.

The first study only uses an N of 10, that is not nearly enough to be statistically accurate. Even ignoring that factor you also have to consider the very short period of time these subjects were administered an AI. Not nearly long enough for them to accurately assess the side effects that come along with hypoestrogenism. The study even states that in the last portion of their abstract.

I stopped reading the second article at elderly men with hypogonadism, which clearly doesn't apply to our OP. We have no reason to suspect, especially without bloodwork, that the OP has any form of hormonal imbalance. The only reasonable conclusion that can be drawn is that he is more susceptible to elevated estrogen levels at his body fat. Not nearly enough of evidence to warrant an AI.

In the third study, once again, they have subjects with confirmed hypogonadism, we do not have that here.

Furthermore, we shouldn't be recommending any chemical help to someone who does not know how to do things the proper way naturally. Otherwise once the chemicals are out of his system he will revert, no offense OP.

[< <Samson> >]

Sadly enough to say, but diet is always #1

This is the reason why you see so many fat guys who lift. They lift, hit some sauce - but, eat crap.

There is absolutely no replacement for proper nutrition

[RigPig]

....I spy with my little eye, a god damn Tribal Tramp Stamp lol....bet ya cant wait to get the muthafu**r covered up huh hahaha. going to be a sweet back piece when its done by the looks of it now.

[deerparkwater]

i would focus on diet and cardio like everyone says... clean up the diet for 3 months and hit the cardio hard.. see where you are at and maybe by then you will be ready to take the juice, plus this gives you some time to do some research on everything you need to have a successful first cycle! good luck bro!