3rd Cycle Layout. Open to substitutions as well!

[ShootingAcez]

Hey all,

it's been awhile since I've been on here. Mainly because work has been crazy along with an injury I had to deal with. I also forgot my password, and miraculously remembered it after 2 years lol. Looking at starting my next cycle. I haven't cycled in almost 2 years, and I'm looking forward to jumping in again. My last cycle was Test Prop 125mg/eod + NPP 100mg/eod + 25mg/day Dbol(4 weeks) @ 8 weeks. I used 0.25mg/eod of Anastrozole. I started that cycle at 170lbs and got me up to 185lbs. I kept 11lbs of it, until I got injured. Then lost a lot of weight. Then I had double lung pneumonia, which didn't help either. With that cycle, I noticed my nipples were rather sensitive, but had no pea size balls develop behind my nipples. Worried me, but nothing came of it. Didn't have that problem on my first cycle, which was 500mg Test En + 30mg Dbol(4 weeks) @ 12 weeks.


After all the mishaps, I'm now sitting at 170lbs again, bf 12% @ 5'9 and 25yrs old (in a post from 2017 I said I was 25. Most likely a typo I missed, as I was 24 at that time!)

For my 3rd Cycle this is what I was thinking. Please feel free to shoot it down it make substitutions:

Test Enanthate @ 500mg/week 1-12wks
Equipose @ 400mg/week 1-12wks

*Anadrol @ 50mg/day 1-4wks
(*on the fence about this one)
HCG @ 500iu/week 1-12wks
Nolvadex @ 10mg/day 1-13wks

Arimidex on hand

PCT ( starting day 10 after last injection)
Nolvadex @ 40mg/40mg/20mg/20mg
Clomid @ 100mg/50mg/50mg


What are all of your thoughts on this? My end goal is not to be TOO big. I wanted that at one point, but now I'm more looking towards 185-190lbs at 7-8% bf.
*This is my overall goal, not my goal after this cycle

[Windex]

Not to rain on your parade, but if your goal is to be at 190 lbs at 7-8% bodyfat by the end of the cycle, it's never going to happen. You are not going to put on 20 lbs of muscle tissue and lose 5% bodyfat in 12 weeks. The scale going up in weight is not automatically muscle.

In terms of the cycle, If you are estrogen sensitive then it would be better to have EQ higher than test

[ShootingAcez]

Not to rain on your parade, but if your goal is to be at 190 lbs at 7-8% bodyfat by the end of the cycle, it's never going to happen. You are not going to put on 20 lbs of muscle tissue and lose 5% bodyfat in 12 weeks. The scale going up in weight is not automatically muscle.

That's my fault for not explaining my goal properly. That's not my goal by the end of the cycle, just overall. I know I won't get there off this one cycle lol.

In terms of the cycle, If you are estrogen sensitive then it would be better to have EQ higher than test

More like this?:

Test En 300mg/week

Equipose 600mg/week

Thank you for your reply! Response in bold.

[< <Samson> >]

Shit man, you’re in a for long haul bud

All depends on how u wanna hit it - slow & steady is usually my answer(now, at least)

The last “cycle” you mentioned won’t do much



I’d say just get on some test to start - I guess

[ShootingAcez]

Shit man, you’re in a for long haul bud

All depends on how u wanna hit it - slow & steady is usually my answer(now, at least)

The last “cycle” you mentioned won’t do much



I’d say just get on some test to start - I guess

Are you referring to the Cycle of Test at 300mg and EQ at 600mg?

[< <Samson> >]

Are you referring to the Cycle of Test at 300mg and EQ at 600mg?

Yup.

[ShootingAcez]

Yup.

So a cycle with test and EQ won't do much, so you're recommending a cycle of just test? Doesn't that contradict the first statement?

[GearHeaded]

you cycle plan is not conducive to your long term goals. your at 170 pounds right now and 12% bf. you have a long term goal of getting to 190 pounds at 7% body fat. if you do that math and look at it realistically, you need to gain about 30 pounds of muscle, and with that will come at least another 10 pounds of water. your looking at a long term goal of adding 40 pounds of scale weight, while getting leaner. Thats probably going to take you about 24 months. which is fine.

so what I mean by your current cycle not being conducive to your goals is that its not really a growth cycle. you really need to focus on growth.
a low dose of test (500 and under is low imo) with a low dose of EQ, is a cruise or a maintenance cycle for a lot of guys. not an extreme growth cycle.
I wouldn't go with those compounds and dosages at all considering your goal of needing to add on lots of lean tissue.

I do however like the Anadrol at the start of the cycle. . I'd focus on using more anabolics on top of 'wet' compounds to help initiate growth

[CA_DXB_85]

a low dose of test (500 and under is low imo) with a low dose of EQ, is a cruise or a maintenance cycle for a lot of guys. not an extreme growth cycle.

Yo Gear,
What would you consider a good test dosage at his current weight? 600? 750? More?
Thanks

[jackfrost88]

Thought I'd chime in here a little bit. On week 5 of 300test 600eq myself right now (posting updates and photo's in member results/progress) and there is a bit of a misconception here and from certain people. So apparently this cycle is "light" and won't even start to kick in until week 6-8 according to most.

I have to say this is completely untrue and no idea where people are getting their information from. Started at 195lbs 13% bodyfat and in the 5 weeks am up to 203lbs and leaned out. Strength through the roof and noticeable gains in vascularity, endurance and hardness. So this is not a cycle that you will not notice. Especially since you are 25lbs lighter than me and just starting out from the sounds of it. Obviously different for different people but I have a feeling that those saying you won't see anything from this haven't tried it themselves or are long term heavy gear users that respond poorly to AAS. Not trying to be mean but it's not right recommending beginners to jump on more than 1g of gear or they won't see results because this is bullsh1t.

My first cycle of 400test took me up nearly 20lbs that I held onto. Again this is logged in member results.

So I say go for a lighter cycle - no need to jump on heavy dosages if you don't have to.

Goodluck!

[GearHeaded]

Yo Gear,
What would you consider a good test dosage at his current weight? 600? 750? More?
Thanks

that would depend on his estrogen sensitivity and the lay out of his cycle/stack . but if he is not super E sensitive then I'd recommend at least 750mg of test as a basis.
during different phases of cycling I like to see test go higher then that, a gram. and at other phases I like to see test go way down to just TRT dosage while the Anaboics are ran at high dosages.

[GearHeaded]

Thought I'd chime in here a little bit. On week 5 of 300test 600eq myself right now (posting updates and photo's in member results/progress) and there is a bit of a misconception here and from certain people. So apparently this cycle is "light"

Jack , I think guys see this cycle as being "light" in the context of the OPs original stated goal, which is to put on 30 pounds of muscle and be extremely lean and ripped at the same time (basically have the stats of 3x Mr Olympia frank zane , 5'9" , 190 pounds, 7% bf).

this is not going to happen in 12 weeks with a little bit of test and eq (or anything else)

however, OP went on to explain that his goal is a long term goal. but even then. achieving those stats will only happen with very 'light' cycles if OP has superior genetics.
sure he can get there running lower doses over time. he would just need to alter the compounds he is running (a bit of test and eq is not sufficient imo)

[jackfrost88]

Jack , I think guys see this cycle as being "light" in the context of the OPs original stated goal, which is to put on 30 pounds of muscle and be extremely lean and ripped at the same time (basically have the stats of 3x Mr Olympia frank zane , 5'9" , 190 pounds, 7% bf).

this is not going to happen in 12 weeks with a little bit of test and eq (or anything else)

however, OP went on to explain that his goal is a long term goal. but even then. achieving those stats will only happen with very 'light' cycles if OP has superior genetics.
sure he can get there running lower doses over time. he would just need to alter the compounds he is running (a bit of test and eq is not sufficient imo)

Thanks GH. I picked up the part about 30lbs of muscle and leaning out but let's be honest, that probably won't happen in one cycle even with heavy dosages of compounds. Also it is much less safe going for a quick hard blast. Would be useful to know if OP is on TRT because if he's cycling that may not be a good idea. If the goal is to achieve that level of growth over the next 2-3 years then doing lighter cycles as an enhancer can work great.

At 5'9 170 @ 25years old personally I'd say take it slow and you can always ramp up the dosages later on. Why jump into a hard cycle so young and at a small size with an unrealistic goal of gaining 30lbs of muscle and losing 5% bf?

I guess if the goal is to gain size at all costs then go for it but most ppl end up regretting it or don't even work out after they get older / have kids / move for work etc.

[ShootingAcez]

Thanks for all the comments so far. I really appreciate everyone's opinions! The goal of 190 @ 7% is definitely a long term goal. I'm not in a major rush.
I've never tried EQ. Only read about it and noted that it added steady gains. So I was thinking about trying it out. What I'd like to avoid, is the puffy look, which is why I was on the fence about Anadrol. Being a little more sensitive to Estrogen, I figured I'd add a compound that didn't aromatize as much as test, and add Nolvadex to keep the gyno away. I don't have a problem dealing with the high estrogen related sides, just don't like the sensitive nips!

Another option I was thinking was:

Test Enanthate @ 300mg 1-12wks
Deca @ 600mg 1-12wks
Nolvadex @ 10mg/day 1-12wks
HCG @ 500iu 1-12 wks

And then the PCT stated above.

I used NPP in my last cycle, but I hated the short esters. I know they are both Nandrolone's, but I hear people respond differently to both of these.

GearHeaded,
Does this seem more appropriate?

[GearHeaded]

ShootingAcez.. YES I like Deca much better for your current situation then I do EQ (saying that, I am a fan of EQ and recommend it a lot, but in much different situations then you). Deca has a way stronger binding affinity then EQ and is about 1.5 time more anabolic then test, where EQ is about 0.8. So your going to get more overall longer term growth with the Deca (but deca has more potential side effects then EQ).

I like that you plan on using Nolvadex rather then an AI . As you'll want to run cycles that allow your serum levels of estrogen to elevate to help promote growth, HGH, and IGF production. crushing E levels with an AI will ultimately hinder your long term gains.


this is what I would recommend

Weeks 1-6
Test 500mg
Deca 500mg (front load the first week at a gram)
Anadrol 50mg per day (weeks 1-4)

Weeks 7-12
Test 750mg
Deca 500mg
Masteron e 500mg (could start this earlier as well)

Nolvadex at 10mg per day throughout as you had planned is fine.

Weeks 12-14
Winstrol 25mg per day
Aromasin 12.5mg EOD (could start this a couple week earlier)
HCG 500iu 3 x per week

then pct after this

notes:
- I like to kick off a growth orientated cycle with Anadrol. as this will help "volumize" your body and prime it to grow the rest of the cycle (sometimes I use Adrol at the end of a cycle for similar purpose but thats more contest prep focused)
- being your going to do PCT , I recommend lowering blood serum levels of estrogen at the end of the cycle going into pct. this makes recovery easier.
- being you have a 2-3 week long transition time from last pin to start of pct, I recommend a fast acting anabolic like Winstrol which will help suppress both cortisol levels as well as have anti estrogen properties. you'll get growth out of it, plus the extras I mention, plus shed some water going into pct.
- I recommend masteron be ran with the Deca (and test) as MASTeron (mast means 'breast') is an anabolic steroid which also blunts prolactin and estrogen receptors , especially in breast tissue. you'll also get some needed androgenic effects at this point in your cycle. it will act a bit like an AI as well.


anyhow, thats a very basic starting point for a growth orientated cycle.. you could do more. you could add in some Primo. you could start running some HGH ,etc etc.. but the basic "structure' of the above cycle is really my point (not even the dosages per se, they are just examples)

you may want to come up with a 2 year plan to help you reach you goals. hopefully your diet and training are optimized and really on point

[ShootingAcez]

ShootingAcez.. YES I like Deca much better for your current situation then I do EQ (saying that, I am a fan of EQ and recommend it a lot, but in much different situations then you). Deca has a way stronger binding affinity then EQ and is about 1.5 time more anabolic then test, where EQ is about 0.8. So your going to get more overall longer term growth with the Deca (but deca has more potential side effects then EQ).

I like that you plan on using Nolvadex rather then an AI . As you'll want to run cycles that allow your serum levels of estrogen to elevate to help promote growth, HGH, and IGF production. crushing E levels with an AI will ultimately hinder your long term gains.


this is what I would recommend

Weeks 1-6
Test 500mg
Deca 500mg (front load the first week at a gram)
Anadrol 50mg per day (weeks 1-4)

Weeks 7-12
Test 750mg
Deca 500mg
Masteron e 500mg (could start this earlier as well)

Nolvadex at 10mg per day throughout as you had planned is fine.

Weeks 12-14
Winstrol 25mg per day
Aromasin 12.5mg EOD (could start this a couple week earlier)
HCG 500iu 3 x per week

then pct after this

notes:
- I like to kick off a growth orientated cycle with Anadrol. as this will help "volumize" your body and prime it to grow the rest of the cycle (sometimes I use Adrol at the end of a cycle for similar purpose but thats more contest prep focused)
- being your going to do PCT , I recommend lowering blood serum levels of estrogen at the end of the cycle going into pct. this makes recovery easier.
- being you have a 2-3 week long transition time from last pin to start of pct, I recommend a fast acting anabolic like Winstrol which will help suppress both cortisol levels as well as have anti estrogen properties. you'll get growth out of it, plus the extras I mention, plus shed some water going into pct.
- I recommend masteron be ran with the Deca (and test) as MASTeron (mast means 'breast') is an anabolic steroid which also blunts prolactin and estrogen receptors , especially in breast tissue. you'll also get some needed androgenic effects at this point in your cycle. it will act a bit like an AI as well.


anyhow, thats a very basic starting point for a growth orientated cycle.. you could do more. you could add in some Primo. you could start running some HGH ,etc etc.. but the basic "structure' of the above cycle is really my point (not even the dosages per se, they are just examples)

you may want to come up with a 2 year plan to help you reach you goals. hopefully your diet and training are optimized and really on point

Thank you so much for your suggestion! I like that you added Masteron in there! I was thinking about it, for the exact reasons you suggested it as well, but I didn't know if that was over-doing it at all.

With that amount of Estrogen, is 10mg of Tamoxifen and the 500mg of Mast going to be enough? I'm not too concerned with the Estro side effects, aside from the sensitive nipples, so keeping the receptors clear will be a focus.