1 Compound At A Time Or More?

[Thors_Hammer]

So just to be clear, I am still finishing my first cycle so I am not about to go and do anything stupid. I am however wanting to learn so feel free to chime in with your experience and knowledge. Thanks in advance!

Is it best/most effective to add one compound at a time to judge results or multiple?

Ex

Test + Dbol

Then next cycle

Test + Deca

Then the 3rd cycle

Test + Deca + dbol

OR just skip the first 2 and go straight for

Test + Deca + Dbol


Or is there something else entirely that I haven't learned/thought of?

[Old Duffer]

So just to be clear, I am still finishing my first cycle so I am not about to go and do anything stupid. I am however wanting to learn so feel free to chime in with your experience and knowledge. Thanks in advance!

Is it best/most effective to add one compound at a time to judge results or multiple?

Ex

Test + Dbol

Then next cycle

Test + Deca

Then the 3rd cycle

Test + Deca + dbol

OR just skip the first 2 and go straight for

Test + Deca + Dbol


Or is there something else entirely that I haven't learned/thought of?

Lol! That often debated Q: Should we inch our way along this journey? Or should we go straight to the fast lane!?!

Depends on a lot of variables.

Are you trying to save your natural system? Or don't care cuz I'm on trt already!

What are the compounds? Are you stacking similar stuff or are their effects different?

Are you a hard ass afa sides like Obs or are you a sides-pussy like me?

Are you stacking 'short' esters where you can quickly bail if things go badly?

Bigger stacks = bigger risks. Are you on top of your bloods n BP?

Finally: can you afford it? Lol!

[GearHeaded]

my personal belief .. IF you really know the science of AAS and what your doing , then you can actually get much better results with LESS side effects by properly stacking compounds together . however, most new users don't know shit about AAS so they have to learn the hard way, by trial and error, and perhaps taking one compound at a time.

note: I've helped new users of AAS run quite a few compounds at one time on their first cycle and they got awesome benefits and none of the side effects they were expecting.
it can be done and it works better in the end . but again you got to know the science of stacking. if you don't then just stick to one compound

[GearHeaded]

heres an example

there are multiple classes of AAS as well as derivatives . you have to know what classes and derivatives your working with

so --
class 1 steroids - work by binding to the androgen receptors to illicit muscle growth and directly transcribing information to the cell (Primo)
class 2 steroids - work apart from having to bind to androgen receptors and illicit growth via indirect mechanisms (Winstrol)
class 1 and 2 steroids - do both (Tren)

derivatives
Testosterone derived steroids - (EQ, Dbol)
DHT derived steroids - (Anadrol, Var)
DHB derived steroids - (Stenbolone, Primo)
Progestin derived steroids , 19 nors - (Tren, Deca, Ment)

Functional class
Anabolic - a steroid whose primary function is anabolic in nature (Var, Primo)
Androgenic - a steroid whose primary function is androgenic in nature (Test, Halo)
and I'll add this one too-
Estrogenic - a steroid whose primary function is also estrogenic in nature (Test, Dbol, Ment)


NOW .. look at all the above factors and classes and find out whats what and how to properly stack . keep in mind that some steroids often times fall together with other steroids in one class, but are completely different in another classification.
example - var and winstrol may both be DHT derived steroids and both fall into that class , but in regards to class 1 vs class 2, they are exact opposites .. also deca my be a progestin class steroid, but it also falls into class 1 just like primo which is not progestin based.
so theres lots of inter mixing of classes going on.

to properly stack you need to know what you want and what your working with here.

heres an example "stack"
Deca, Dbol, and Anadrol

now these are all 'wet' retentive based steroids. but they are all different classes of steroids and would work very synergistically together for bulking . you've got a pure anabolic , deca, which is also a progestin based 19 nor which is not estrogenic (it does not aromatize much at all), along with Dbol which is a test derived steroid which is also very estrogenic, along with Anadrol which is a DHT derived steroid.. and a combination of both class 1 and class 2 here.
^ thats just a real basic example on how to stack based on classes

then theres some real simple basic shit . like knowing that Masteron (a DHT derived androgen) works as a progestin receptor blunting drug . so it works awesome to provide androgenic load to a cycle that is being ran primarily with a progestin based drug, 19 nor (like Deca or Tren).. the mast is going to make your 19 nor work better plus blunt negative side effects .

lots more can be said here

[Thors_Hammer]

heres an example

there are multiple classes of AAS as well as derivatives . you have to know what classes and derivatives your working with

so --
class 1 steroids - work by binding to the androgen receptors to illicit muscle growth and directly transcribing information to the cell (Primo)
class 2 steroids - work apart from having to bind to androgen receptors and illicit growth via indirect mechanisms (Winstrol)
class 1 and 2 steroids - do both (Tren)

derivatives
Testosterone derived steroids - (EQ, Dbol)
DHT derived steroids - (Anadrol, Var)
DHB derived steroids - (Stenbolone, Primo)
Progestin derived steroids , 19 nors - (Tren, Deca, Ment)

Functional class
Anabolic - a steroid whose primary function is anabolic in nature (Var, Primo)
Androgenic - a steroid whose primary function is androgenic in nature (Test, Halo)
and I'll add this one too-
Estrogenic - a steroid whose primary function is also estrogenic in nature (Test, Dbol, Ment)


NOW .. look at all the above factors and classes and find out whats what and how to properly stack . keep in mind that some steroids often times fall together with other steroids in one class, but are completely different in another classification.
example - var and winstrol may both be DHT derived steroids and both fall into that class , but in regards to class 1 vs class 2, they are exact opposites .. also deca my be a progestin class steroid, but it also falls into class 1 just like primo which is not progestin based.
so theres lots of inter mixing of classes going on.

to properly stack you need to know what you want and what your working with here.

heres an example "stack"
Deca, Dbol, and Anadrol

now these are all 'wet' retentive based steroids. but they are all different classes of steroids and would work very synergistically together for bulking . you've got a pure anabolic , deca, which is also a progestin based 19 nor which is not estrogenic (it does not aromatize much at all), along with Dbol which is a test derived steroid which is also very estrogenic, along with Anadrol which is a DHT derived steroid.. and a combination of both class 1 and class 2 here.
^ thats just a real basic example on how to stack based on classes

then theres some real simple basic shit . like knowing that Masteron (a DHT derived androgen) works as a progestin receptor blunting drug . so it works awesome to provide androgenic load to a cycle that is being ran primarily with a progestin based drug, 19 nor (like Deca or Tren).. the mast is going to make your 19 nor work better plus blunt negative side effects .

lots more can be said here

Holy crap....

Well I've read and reread that post several times. The conclusion I've come to is I have a lot of learning to do haha

Honestly though thanks a lot GH for the response. That gives me a good starting place to expand my knowledge.

Also thanks OldDuffer for your post as well

[Old Duffer]

It is a complicated question. GH is da man!

He has helped me immensely

[Thors_Hammer]

It is a complicated question. GH is da man!

He has helped me immensely

Definitely! Everytime I see GH on a thread I check it out to see what new knowledge drops he is making.

[Thors_Hammer]

By the way GH I sent you a PM but just realized I think there is a 50 or 100 post rule on this forum so my bad on that.

[Ashop]

The best way to know how body responds is to use only one item at a time other than always having some TESTOSTERONE as your base, even if its just a small amount.

[Proximal]

I'm a GH disciple.

I am a hard gainer to the point where I sometimes classify myself as a non-responder to weights.

Had an utterly meaningless, waste of time 500 mg. Test only cycle, that left me thinking there was no hope for me. That was a couple years back when this forum was more secretive regarding different compounds.

Along comes this guy, puts some low dose combinations together with no sides & I'm a new man.

[i_SLAM_cougars]

I'm a GH disciple.

I am a hard gainer to the point where I sometimes classify myself as a non-responder to weights.

Had an utterly meaningless, waste of time 500 mg. Test only cycle, that left me thinking there was no hope for me. That was a couple years back when this forum was more secretive regarding different compounds.

Along comes this guy, puts some low dose combinations together with no sides & I'm a new man.

Test only cycles have their place, and can work really well, but the dosages need to be in the 4 digit area. I don’t think I would run any other compound as high or as long as test. Unless you are unfortunately prone to estrogen conversion your body knows what to do with it. Also one of the benefits of running high dose test cycles is that it feels amazing. Not toxic. That can’t be said of all compounds, although there are plenty of compounds that won’t give you that feeling either.

With that said... I’d at least run some orals with it (I know that’s a contradictory statement).

[GearHeaded]

Test only cycles have their place, and can work really well, but the dosages need to be in the 4 digit area. .

100% agree

one of the WORST cycles imo, yet one of the most popular cycles for guys to run is low dose test (500mg) WITH high doses of an AI or anti estrogen. by "worst" I mean its the worse in regards to getting gains.
the best thing about Test is that its 'balanced' and multi faceted.. its equally androgenic as it is anabolic , its also equally estrogenic as it is androgenic as well (it converts to both estrogen and dht . most AAS don't do both).
so when you run only a low dose of test, then you add a bunch of AI to the cycle, your defeating the whole purpose of what test is good for . which is to provide estrogen load to equal its androgen load and having that estrogen then become very anabolic in the presence of elevated androgens.
by suppressing estrogen real low on a test only cycle, you take away a lot of the Anabolic rating of test and the growth factors effects (IGF production).. then all your left with is androgen load (which sure will help fill your muscles out some, but it won't build new tissue) and DHT conversion (which is NOT anabolic in muscle tissue.. but will help provide aggression).
so really your low dose test only cycle with a high dose of AI's is NOT an anabolic cycle thats going to put on much muscle at all.

yet its the most popular cycle to run on most all the forums.. but all you need to do is follow the logs of guys that run these cycles and see over the years they really have not advanced much at all. IF they would have spent those 2 years running actual AAS cycles rather then these androgen only test cycles , they would probably be twice the size


if you want to put a lot of size on using only Test . you gotta run 1000+ mg per week and limit your use of AI's and let that estrogen become anabolic and work with your androgen load and upregulate IGF. suppressing the estrogen is going to keep your growth factors down

[Mr.Smith54]

GH,
What are your thoughts on a lean mass cycle with low dose (250/wk) test, Keepable gains w/minimal compounds? Oils or orals.

[GearHeaded]

GH,
What are your thoughts on a lean mass cycle with low dose (250/wk) test, Keepable gains w/minimal compounds? Oils or orals.

I'm a fan of low dose test cycles .. heck even 'no dose' test cycles. as long as you got your estrogen, androgens, and dht covered with other compounds then you don't even need test.. however, being test is estrogenic, androgenic, and converts to DHT , its pretty darn convenient and covers all your basis.
I just got done 'cruising' for 8 weeks with no test (just low dose eq and low dose tren) and felt great.

if you want to mass with low dose test then I recommend using something like Dbol to give you your estrogen your going to need to grow. then for your anabolics your going to want to run a 'wet' retentive based compound like nandrolone (npp or deca), and perhaps anadrol. then for your androgen load you can add in low dose Tren or even Masteron (yes, you can use mast to bulk. its basically just going to add androgen load to your cycle, its not just for cutting . plus its synergestic with 19 nors).

so something like
test 200mg
deca 600mg
Masteron 300mg
Dbol 50mg day

[Mr.Smith54]

You always hear about running more test than deca when running those 2 compounds. With your stack should you include caber for the deca?

[GearHeaded]

You always hear about running more test than deca when running those 2 compounds. With your stack should you include caber for the deca?

deca is a progestin . running more test then deca is just fine to add androgen load to your cycle , but being deca is a progestin the added test will result in more estrogen conversion and the deca is already making you super sensitive to estrogen. so its really person dependent thing here. if your not estrogen sensitive then more test and more estrogen will be a benefit to you.. if you are estrogen sensitive, and deca will make you even more sensitive, then you'll want to keep your test dosage very low.

Deca is also NOT very androgenic, in fact it can be anti androgenic due to its conversion to DHN (rather then DHT). having a low androgen cycle is great for women and great for men in some circumstances . however if you want some androgen load to your deca cycle, then yes you'll have to run more test . OR you can run Masteron for androgen effects like my cycle example has included.


NO . I do not agree that you need to run Caber with deca. caber is ONLY beneficial if your prolactin levels are elevated. most guys get prolactin like side effects from deca being a progestin, but don't even have elevated prolactin (its just because the deca is acting on progestin receptors). caber does nothing for this and can cause more harm then good . only run caber if you have actual elevated prolactin confirmed by blood work. 95% of guys are running caber and prami when they don't have elevated prolactin to begin with

[Mr.Smith54]

Test, deca,mast,dbol, is this a "keepable gains " cycle? What do you think of DHB? I've been hesitant on the 19 nors because of the "deca dick", will the low dose test be enough to hold it off? I thought that was the reason for more test than deca in that type of cycle. I know it is person specific, but do you feel generally this doesn't require an ai? I know you are the professor here, so just because we've read things so many times on these forums doesn't necessarily make them true, so I appreciate the education. Sorry for more than 1 question.

[Windex]

So just to be clear, I am still finishing my first cycle so I am not about to go and do anything stupid. I am however wanting to learn so feel free to chime in with your experience and knowledge. Thanks in advance!

Is it best/most effective to add one compound at a time to judge results or multiple?

Ex

Test + Dbol

Then next cycle

Test + Deca

Then the 3rd cycle

Test + Deca + dbol

OR just skip the first 2 and go straight for

Test + Deca + Dbol


Or is there something else entirely that I haven't learned/thought of?

you have people that are conservative and then have the "more drugs is better" crowd.

Somewhere in the middle of both extremes is probably a good place to land. For example, someone who has never used 19nors should not be using both Tren and Deca together on a first go. Conversely, compounds like Masteron, Primobolan, and Anavar are pretty favourable to add to a stack without throwing a wrench into everything.