Hardgainers ("beta males", guys built like Harry Styles), did AAS give you big gains?

[TheGypsyKing]

It seems as though, given I - like you probably do - have normal test levels, that our receptors are less sensitive to test (or have less of the properties that convert test to dht) and so I'm wondering whether a guy built like Justin Bieber can expect to have awesome gains the way a guy who is built like Antonio Brown would.

[Obs]

It seems as though, given I - like you probably do - have normal test levels, that our receptors are less sensitive to test (or have less of the properties that convert test to dht) and so I'm wondering whether a guy built like Justin Bieber can expect to have awesome gains the way a guy who is built like Antonio Brown would.

from my experience at totally depends on what you put into it and your metabolic rate. I was skinny when I was younger and when I started doing this and I quickly put on 70 lb of lean mass. I didn't have to count macros and watch fats and things like that I just ate everything I possibly could. I know plenty of skinny guys that have busted their ass to gain 20 lb over a dozen Cycles or blast and cruise rotations

[Honkey_Kong]

Some people are hyper responders to gear, others are hypo responders. Most people though fall somewhere in the middle. If you're a "hard gainer," it's likely not your insensitivity to androgens that I'd suspect is the reason for your problems gaining weight. It's likely your diet, your training and the amount/quality of rest you're getting.

Steroids are not going to overcome a shit diet. And I'm sure you're going to respond with something about your diet being "spot on" or something like that. I've heard it all and I've even said that same shit before. If you want success in this, you have to be honest with yourself.

[TheGypsyKing]

You were skinny but did you have signs of strong secondary male characteristics like lots of body hair, big bone structure, deep voice.

Like I don't have a single hair on my chest. Small bone structure. I clearly must have some lesser sensitivity to test, or less 5-alpha-reductase, whatever, and am just like ehh, A. I always get horrible side effects from any medication I take, B. If I'm not gonna benefit much cuz my body doesn't do shit with the testosterone I have, well forget doing it then.

[DinAZ]

You were skinny but did you have signs of strong secondary male characteristics like lots of body hair, big bone structure, deep voice.

Like I don't have a single hair on my chest. Small bone structure. I clearly must have some lesser sensitivity to test, or less 5-alpha-reductase, whatever, and am just like ehh, A. I always get horrible side effects from any medication I take, B. If I'm not gonna benefit much cuz my body doesn't do shit with the testosterone I have, well forget doing it then.

If you decide to cycle, don’t go into it thinking it won’t benefit you. Test can work for anyone. Genetics matters most as far as being a competitive body builder, but as far as being a hobbyist lifter your diet and training regimen are what really matter.

If you eat good and train hard on test you will gain strength and lean mass. You just need to decide if it is right for you. How old are you, ha do you have experience working out and planning diets? That is important for everyone on cycle or off.

Testosterone is a hormone not your typical medication so your reactions to other medications is not really relevant as it does not dictate your reaction to test. As long as you don’t have a good workout an diet plan; and don’t overdo anti estrogen (but be sure to have some on hand), I think you could have great results.

I’m not saying that AAS is for you or not for you, but whether you take them or not you need to believe you can achieve your goals and don’t doubt yourself! We are are limited to our genetics but can accomplish amazing things if we push ourselves and believe.

[Honkey_Kong]

You were skinny but did you have signs of strong secondary male characteristics like lots of body hair, big bone structure, deep voice.

Like I don't have a single hair on my chest. Small bone structure. I clearly must have some lesser sensitivity to test, or less 5-alpha-reductase, whatever, and am just like ehh, A. I always get horrible side effects from any medication I take, B. If I'm not gonna benefit much cuz my body doesn't do shit with the testosterone I have, well forget doing it then.

That doesn't necessarily mean you have a lesser sensitivity to test. There are some jacked bodybuilders who don't have much body hair. Unless you went to a doctor and they ran tests and concluded you have a genetic defect preventing your ability to convert test in to DHT, then you're just talking out of your ass. I know you got this from watching MPMD and Derek has good info on there, but don't take what he says as the only opinion on the matter. And certainly don't believe that you are the type of person they were talking about if you haven't had any sort of medical/biological testing to confirm that you are.

[DinAZ]

That doesn't necessarily mean you have a lesser sensitivity to test. There are some jacked bodybuilders who don't have much body hair. Unless you went to a doctor and they ran tests and concluded you have a genetic defect preventing your ability to convert test in to DHT, then you're just talking out of your ass. I know you got this from watching MPMD and Derek has good info on there, but don't take what he says as the only opinion on the matter. And certainly don't believe that you are the type of person they were talking about if you haven't had any sort of medical/biological testing to confirm that you are.

Exactly HK! Having little body hair could mean someone is test deficient just as easily as it means someone has lesser sensitivity. Self labs or Dr labs, or trying test would be more informative than guessing or assuming.

[TheGypsyKing]

Some people are hyper responders to gear, others are hypo responders. Most people though fall somewhere in the middle. If you're a "hard gainer," it's likely not your insensitivity to androgens that I'd suspect is the reason for your problems gaining weight. It's likely your diet, your training and the amount/quality of rest you're getting.

Steroids are not going to overcome a shit diet. And I'm sure you're going to respond with something about your diet being "spot on" or something like that. I've heard it all and I've even said that same shit before. If you want success in this, you have to be honest with yourself.

I have absolutely no problem being honest with myself. And it sucks way more to admit I'm built more like Justin Bieber than Julian Edelman. I eat like a horse. And I have an absurd metabolism and I take a lotta shits. I'll do the same workouts and eat the same ridiculous portions as my brother but he is 30 lbs heavier all muscle.

[TheGypsyKing]

If you decide to cycle, don’t go into it thinking it won’t benefit you. Test can work for anyone. Genetics matters most as far as being a competitive body builder, but as far as being a hobbyist lifter your diet and training regimen are what really matter.

If you eat good and train hard on test you will gain strength and lean mass. You just need to decide if it is right for you. How old are you, ha do you have experience working out and planning diets? That is important for everyone on cycle or off.

Testosterone is a hormone not your typical medication so your reactions to other medications is not really relevant as it does not dictate your reaction to test. As long as you don’t have a good workout an diet plan; and don’t overdo anti estrogen (but be sure to have some on hand), I think you could have great results.

I’m not saying that AAS is for you or not for you, but whether you take them or not you need to believe you can achieve your goals and don’t doubt yourself! We are are limited to our genetics but can accomplish amazing things if we push ourselves and believe.

Thanks

[DinAZ]

I have absolutely no problem being honest with myself. And it sucks way more to admit I'm built more like Justin Bieber than Julian Edelman. I eat like a horse. And I have an absurd metabolism and I take a lotta shits. I'll do the same workouts and eat the same ridiculous portions as my brother but he is 30 lbs heavier all muscle.

You gotta just be your best self and not compare yourself to others. How old are you if you don’t mind me asking, or what age range if you don’t wanna say? It gets easier to add mass with age IMO. That’s great you are crapping regularly but doesn’t have much to do with your fitness goals.

[TheGypsyKing]

Exactly HK! Having little body hair could mean someone is test deficient just as easily as it means someone has lesser sensitivity. Self labs or Dr labs, or trying test would be more informative than guessing or assuming.

I have no idea who Derek or that channel are. And I have been hormone tested several times. Fully normal ranges for everything.

[TheGypsyKing]

Early 30s. But I can't get big muscles, or hard muscles even. No rocks in these biceps or pecs. My muscles look more like a really strong chicks muscles.

Hah, I'm mentioning to say I have a very fast metabolism and where friends add in like 500 calories a day and bulk crazy, I add in 500 and pretty much stay the same and just shit more.

It's hard not to compare myself to others. It's just what I've done my whole life. I want to be the best at everything. And no shite I'm not gonna have Terrell Owens' body, but damn it'd be nice to be like 1/4 of the way between my average college boy looking body and something like that.

[DinAZ]

Early 30s is a great age to add mass. I’d learn as much as you can about doing a test cycle, including a PCT plan. If you put together a good workout plan and good diet with high protein, I bet you would do great. I put on muscle decently in 20s. At nearly 40 with several injuries I was having trouble gaining strength or mass. One 400mg/week test cycle really helped me break through my wall. AAS would definitely work for you but it’s just a matter of you deciding if it’s something you want to commit to. For me, the benefits greatly outweigh any risks.

[Killah_Keith]

There is no such thing as a hard gainer. It's just math.

You say you eat plenty. So how many calories is that? What is the macro breakdown? What is your daily calorie expenditure?

If you can't answer that, you're not doing it right.

Then there's training. Get off the machines, and get comfortable with the barbell.

Heavy compound lifts. Squat, bench, deadlift, overhead press. This is the base. Just about every legendary bodybuilder started out as a powerlifter. There is a reason for that.

[Test Monsterone]

You could always just run a cycle and see what it does for you. But if your body likes staying at a certain size, you will eventually go back to that IMO. You can’t stay on a cycle forever. Also, steroids are unhealthy. Do you want to sacrifice long-term health for temporary results?

[Chark]

You were skinny but did you have signs of strong secondary male characteristics like lots of body hair, big bone structure, deep voice.

Like I don't have a single hair on my chest. Small bone structure. I clearly must have some lesser sensitivity to test, or less 5-alpha-reductase, whatever, and am just like ehh, A. I always get horrible side effects from any medication I take, B. If I'm not gonna benefit much cuz my body doesn't do shit with the testosterone I have, well forget doing it then.

Pre and post-gear I barely have ANY noticeable chest/back hair nor is my voice particularly deep.

This isn't to be rude but rather to get you to own up to your own shit...You're looking for reasons outside of your control to use as excuses instead of considering that something you may be doing is wrong. You decide for yourself what's more important, protecting your ego through rationalization...or getting where you want to be. You may not have elite bodybuilder genetics but you certainly can build something better than, in your words, looking like a strong chick.

Man, it's ALWAYS one of 3 things: training, diet, or sleep. Either you aren't getting a good night's rest, you're not stimulating the muscle in the gym, or you're not eating enough to match your metabolism. From your description, it sounds almost certainly like it's food. What you think is eating a lot isn't enough for you. If you're staying rail thin and not getting fatter...think. Start tracking what you're eating and adjust by adding in more calorie dense foods over time.

[TheGypsyKing]

There is no such thing as a hard gainer. It's just math.

You say you eat plenty. So how many calories is that? What is the macro breakdown? What is your daily calorie expenditure?

If you can't answer that, you're not doing it right.

Then there's training. Get off the machines, and get comfortable with the barbell.

Heavy compound lifts. Squat, bench, deadlift, overhead press. This is the base. Just about every legendary bodybuilder started out as a powerlifter. There is a reason for that.

Of course there are hardgainers... but yeah it's math... number of calories your body keeps - number of calories your body burns or refuses to uptake=weight gain. And people burn calories at different rates/bodies keep excess calories at different rates. Furthermore that also doesn't necessarily translate to muscle gain. Think you and Myles Garrett are gonna pack on muscle at the same rate cuz you train the same and you're eating as much or more than him? Laughable oversimplification and bro-science.

I don't rock the machines, I've been a free-weight guy my whole life.

And I eat 3,000-3,200 calories a day. I've been to high 180s, but it sure wasn't solid muscle. I don't put that on easily, I don't put that on the same way any of my friends, who work out less and eat way less do. You're woefully oversimplifying things and going on the trope of "anyone can do anything they set their mind to." Ahhh okay, yeah I'll wait for you to have Lebron's vertical... you just haven't trained enough for it...

[Killah_Keith]

My brother has been a so-called "Hard gainer" his entire life. Never been over 150lb and he's 5'10

I told him the same thing I told you. Except for I gave him a very specific meal plan and training regimen.

16 Weeks later he's 165lb. And maybe one or two percent body fat % higher. No gear, not even TRT. And he's 36 years old.

Bench went from 145 to 225
Squat went from 185 to 315
Deadlift went from 275 to 375

All Raw, and again...100% natural. His total T is only around 400.



Did you make this thread just to complain, or actually get advice?

[Test Monsterone]

There’s differences among hard gainers, too. Different hormone receptors, myostatin receptors, insulin response, etc…. You can also have high total T, but low free T, which is what really counts. So we can’t completely rule out genetic factors, and yea, some people just cannot gain, no matter what. I have friends I trained with over the years that had to work 2x as hard as me for half the results. There are hard gainers who blow up on a cycle, yet I personally don’t put on much weight at all. I’m pretty much the same on and off cycle minus some extra acne and a bad mood lol.

[Hermogenes]

Someone that I know: 200% scrawny, the dude would shoot test and in 3 months he would have a "perfect body"
All muscles where visible, full and defined, no body fat, low back striations.

Skinny guys may not get big but look great for what they get

[Honkey_Kong]

I have absolutely no problem being honest with myself. And it sucks way more to admit I'm built more like Justin Bieber than Julian Edelman. I eat like a horse. And I have an absurd metabolism and I take a lotta shits. I'll do the same workouts and eat the same ridiculous portions as my brother but he is 30 lbs heavier all muscle.

Here's the thing, if you're eating 4000 calories and you're not gaining any weight, then eat 4500 calories. If 4500 doesn't work, go to 5000 and so on. I'm willing to bet you're not weighing your meals and calculating macros. I used to think I ate like a horse too, when I was skinny. Then when I started quantifying my diet, I found out that I was eating like an anorexic horse.

[TheGypsyKing]

My brother has been a so-called "Hard gainer" his entire life. Never been over 150lb and he's 5'10

I told him the same thing I told you. Except for I gave him a very specific meal plan and training regimen.

16 Weeks later he's 165lb. And maybe one or two percent body fat % higher. No gear, not even TRT. And he's 36 years old.

Bench went from 145 to 225
Squat went from 185 to 315
Deadlift went from 275 to 375

All Raw, and again...100% natural. His total T is only around 400.

Dude, your bro was weak as hell. Sounds like he barely lifted. Thumb is broken rn, but can generally bench around 240. Can squat 300'ish and Dead 330'ish when my knee didn't have a tear. Sounds like your bro put on weight because he finally put in some work. I put in work like an NFL player. And can easily consume 4,000 calories a day for months on end, and put on weight, that ain't muscle...

Did you make this thread just to complain, or actually get advice?

[TheGypsyKing]

Someone that I know: 200% scrawny, the dude would shoot test and in 3 months he would have a "perfect body"
All muscles where visible, full and defined, no body fat, low back striations.

Skinny guys may not get big but look great for what they get

Fair enough, sounds pretty good

[TheGypsyKing]

There’s differences among hard gainers, too. Different hormone receptors, myostatin receptors, insulin response, etc…. You can also have high total T, but low free T, which is what really counts. So we can’t completely rule out genetic factors, and yea, some people just cannot gain, no matter what. I have friends I trained with over the years that had to work 2x as hard as me for half the results. There are hard gainers who blow up on a cycle, yet I personally don’t put on much weight at all. I’m pretty much the same on and off cycle minus some extra acne and a bad mood lol.

Thank you... someone who isn't just saying everything is chalked up to diet, workouts and sleep.

But why do you cycle if you don't put on much? You get any hair loss? That ain't my favorite thought... balding sucks.

[Mooseman33]

dreamer thread

[NiceGuyResearcher]

Harry styles? that soounds familiar... isn't he a singer? what about built like machine gunn kelly? lol

he sure has a nice p.o.a. in megan fox lol

[Test Monsterone]

I don't understand what these women see in ugly ass scrawny weirdos like MGK, Pete Davidson, or the drummer from Blink 182. It's like they think scrawny pussies are hot lol. One thing most of these women have in common, from what I can tell, is that they're dumb as rocks.

[redz]

I’ve trained with a “hardgainer” before it’s non sense. I treated him like a servant slave at the gym and forced him to do way more weight constantly and made him double his food intake. I even tricked him sometimes putting more weight on the bar than he realized. Bottom line your mind needs to be the strongest part of you. Drop the hardgainer label and accept the beast in training context and you will evolve physically but only after your mind accepts fault for past failures and moves into 100% accountability.

[Killah_Keith]

Dude, your bro was weak as hell. Sounds like he barely lifted. Thumb is broken rn, but can generally bench around 240. Can squat 300'ish and Dead 330'ish when my knee didn't have a tear. Sounds like your bro put on weight because he finally put in some work. I put in work like an NFL player. And can easily consume 4,000 calories a day for months on end, and put on weight, that ain't muscle...

Did you make this thread just to complain, or actually get advice?

The difference here. He didn't complain on the internet. He put in the work. Yes. And accomplished it naturally. With low T. And injuries as well.

Strength is relative to oneself.

I lift double your numbers.

Plenty of people lift double my numbers.

And there are still people stronger than that.

You're obviously a beta manlit.

[Honkey_Kong]

Dude, your bro was weak as hell. Sounds like he barely lifted. Thumb is broken rn, but can generally bench around 240. Can squat 300'ish and Dead 330'ish when my knee didn't have a tear. Sounds like your bro put on weight because he finally put in some work. I put in work like an NFL player. And can easily consume 4,000 calories a day for months on end, and put on weight, that ain't muscle...

Did you make this thread just to complain, or actually get advice?

If you're benching 240, squatting 300 and deadlifting 330, you really shouldn't be talking shit about what somebody else lifts.

[TheGypsyKing]

I don't understand what these women see in ugly ass scrawny weirdos like MGK, Pete Davidson, or the drummer from Blink 182. It's like they think scrawny pussies are hot lol. One thing most of these women have in common, from what I can tell, is that they're dumb as rocks.

They see other idiots who dont make them feel dumb, ppl who are also f'd up, and guys who like to party and live the wild life

[TheGypsyKing]

The difference here. He didn't complain on the internet. He put in the work. Yes. And accomplished it naturally. With low T. And injuries as well.

Strength is relative to oneself.

I lift double your numbers.

Plenty of people lift double my numbers.

And there are still people stronger than that.

You're obviously a beta manlit.

lol so you bench 480 and squat 600 and there's plenty of people who bench 960 and squat 1200?? Love these forums. Buncha dudes with naturally good physical genes, bad mental genetics, and dope on test and chalk it all up to hard work. Let me see you get Jevon Kearse big then... I mean it's just diet and exercise and willpower. I mean why stop there... let's see you go for the Aaron Donald aesthetic. Just a little accountability is all it takes. lmao.

[Honkey_Kong]

lol so you bench 480 and squat 600 and there's plenty of people who bench 960 and squat 1200?? Love these forums. Buncha dudes with naturally good physical genes, bad mental genetics, and dope on test and chalk it all up to hard work. Let me see you get Jevon Kearse big then... I mean it's just diet and exercise and willpower. I mean why stop there... let's see you go for the Aaron Donald aesthetic. Just a little accountability is all it takes. lmao.

You were the one talking shit about what other people lift and TBH what you said you lift is pretty newb. And by the way, there's plenty of people who bench 960 and squat 1200? How many people in the world have a 900lb bench or a 1000lb squat?

[Killah_Keith]

lol so you bench 480 and squat 600 and there's plenty of people who bench 960 and squat 1200?? Love these forums. Buncha dudes with naturally good physical genes, bad mental genetics, and dope on test and chalk it all up to hard work. Let me see you get Jevon Kearse big then... I mean it's just diet and exercise and willpower. I mean why stop there... let's see you go for the Aaron Donald aesthetic. Just a little accountability is all it takes. lmao.

You don't deserve a response, but I'm taking a shit So I'll give you one.

Also this may be helpful to someone that's actually willing to accept advice.

I spent three years stuck at 185lbs. No real progress was made. In either strength or conditioning. Training consistently. Not breaking diet. Doing everything I thought I could. BUT I WAS DOING IT WRONG!

I finally was able to listen and learn. No more complaints. The information is out there. But are you willing to first listen, second adhere to it?

2 years later. Now I walk around at 215. Which is the upper limit of my walk around weight. Lean bulks will get up towards the 225 range.

I compete at 198lb.

I do not need to list my accolades. But in the martial arts community. You are that spazzy white belt that just need to shut the fuck and do what you're told. You would be laughed out of any real Powerlifting gym. Not because of your lack of strength. But with your obvious beta manlit ego-driven mentality. Forget bodybuilding. You would never stomach the months of force feeding followed by the deathbed starvation. You're not only weak in body, but also in mind.

Ask questions a year from now when you've earned the right.

[Test Monsterone]

Thank you... someone who isn't just saying everything is chalked up to diet, workouts and sleep.

But why do you cycle if you don't put on much? You get any hair loss? That ain't my favorite thought... balding sucks.

Tbh I only started TRT and cycling toward the end of 2018. I have run around 5-6 cycles, moderate ones at that. These cycles were each using different compounds to see how I respond. I never tried the harsh ones like tren, so I don’t know how I would respond to those. I don’t plant on running anything for a while and when I do, it might just be to cut up for the summer. I’m not interested in getting bigger. I already have high bp that I control, but it still creeps up on cycle. I don’t feel physically healthy on any cycle. I feel like my heart has to work a lot harder. I do best at TRT doses, in fact I’m a better athlete at those levels. Maybe if I had amazing results or were willing to do the doses that would yield better results, I’d be more enthusiastic about taking more cycles. I just don’t see the point going forward. I’ll still run something here and there, just to have some fun. I honestly could go without running another cycle and be fine. My outlook on life has changed a lot in the last couple of years. I’ve seen guys die from this shit, and I don’t want to end up like them.

Yeah, hair takes a hit for sure, and that’s another reason. Look, I’m back to where I was before I ran my last cycle. The only thing that persisted was my hair loss… which is now slowly coming back and feeling thicker. So basically it’s all temporary anyway, it’s not worth it to me.

[Honkey_Kong]

Tbh I only started TRT and cycling toward the end of 2018. I have run around 5-6 cycles, moderate ones at that. These cycles were each using different compounds to see how I respond. I never tried the harsh ones like tren, so I don’t know how I would respond to those. I don’t plant on running anything for a while and when I do, it might just be to cut up for the summer. I’m not interested in getting bigger. I already have high bp that I control, but it still creeps up on cycle. I don’t feel physically healthy on any cycle. I feel like my heart has to work a lot harder. I do best at TRT doses, in fact I’m a better athlete at those levels. Maybe if I had amazing results or were willing to do the doses that would yield better results, I’d be more enthusiastic about taking more cycles. I just don’t see the point going forward. I’ll still run something here and there, just to have some fun. I honestly could go without running another cycle and be fine. My outlook on life has changed a lot in the last couple of years. I’ve seen guys die from this shit, and I don’t want to end up like them.

Yeah, hair takes a hit for sure, and that’s another reason. Look, I’m back to where I was before I ran my last cycle. The only thing that persisted was my hair loss… which is now slowly coming back and feeling thicker. So basically it’s all temporary anyway, it’s not worth it to me.

Once you lose the hair, you don't fear losing it anymore. Besides, chicks dig a nicely Bic'd head.

[TheGypsyKing]

You were the one talking shit about what other people lift and TBH what you said you lift is pretty newb. And by the way, there's plenty of people who bench 960 and squat 1200? How many people in the world have a 900lb bench or a 1000lb squat?

Christ almighty, dude. You said you lift double what I lift, and said there's plenty of people who lift double what you lift. It's simple multiplication.

And YOU were the one who brought up numbers. Which were small numbers. Then clowned my numbers which were about the same or higher than the numbers you brought up. LOL. Unreal.

[TheGypsyKing]

You don't deserve a response, but I'm taking a shit So I'll give you one.

Also this may be helpful to someone that's actually willing to accept advice.

I spent three years stuck at 185lbs. No real progress was made. In either strength or conditioning. Training consistently. Not breaking diet. Doing everything I thought I could. BUT I WAS DOING IT WRONG!

I finally was able to listen and learn. No more complaints. The information is out there. But are you willing to first listen, second adhere to it?

2 years later. Now I walk around at 215. Which is the upper limit of my walk around weight. Lean bulks will get up towards the 225 range.

I compete at 198lb.

I do not need to list my accolades. But in the martial arts community. You are that spazzy white belt that just need to shut the fuck and do what you're told. You would be laughed out of any real Powerlifting gym. Not because of your lack of strength. But with your obvious beta manlit ego-driven mentality. Forget bodybuilding. You would never stomach the months of force feeding followed by the deathbed starvation. You're not only weak in body, but also in mind.

Ask questions a year from now when you've earned the right.

I'm an Army Ranger. So shut your f'n mouth about weak in body or mind. I've taken heads at close range and survived shit you've never even had nightmares of going through. But yeah tell me about how alpha you are because you eat 4,000 calories a day. Big MAGA guy?

[TheGypsyKing]

Tbh I only started TRT and cycling toward the end of 2018. I have run around 5-6 cycles, moderate ones at that. These cycles were each using different compounds to see how I respond. I never tried the harsh ones like tren, so I don’t know how I would respond to those. I don’t plant on running anything for a while and when I do, it might just be to cut up for the summer. I’m not interested in getting bigger. I already have high bp that I control, but it still creeps up on cycle. I don’t feel physically healthy on any cycle. I feel like my heart has to work a lot harder. I do best at TRT doses, in fact I’m a better athlete at those levels. Maybe if I had amazing results or were willing to do the doses that would yield better results, I’d be more enthusiastic about taking more cycles. I just don’t see the point going forward. I’ll still run something here and there, just to have some fun. I honestly could go without running another cycle and be fine. My outlook on life has changed a lot in the last couple of years. I’ve seen guys die from this shit, and I don’t want to end up like them.

Yeah, hair takes a hit for sure, and that’s another reason. Look, I’m back to where I was before I ran my last cycle. The only thing that persisted was my hair loss… which is now slowly coming back and feeling thicker. So basically it’s all temporary anyway, it’s not worth it to me.

Lol. Well I guess you're not really someone who juices then. And make a good case for not doing so.

[SampsonandDelilah]

What was your point again? You listed celebrities and athletes and asked what it would take each one to look like the other? If you can’t get big you can’t get big. Eat, train, sleep and repeat. Sounds like you’ve done all you can.

Not sure what good arguing or calling people is going to do for you? Good luck with it though.

What Battalion and where were you stationed?