ANAVAR Cycle (for those interested)

[Steroidman99]

How was your diet?
In this thread, almost no one understood that the real deal in my case was, surely a good genetics predisposition for Oxandrolone, but at the basement a proper diet (how to combine what and when to eat those food combination).
If you lost everything within two weeks after such a cycle, I believe you should blame your diet or perhaps the drugs you have taken in your pct were not what you thought they were, so your HPTA could not restore in a timely manner.

In any case, how do you account my test level now compared to before the cycle, if you hardly believe it increased due to the sinergy of both nolva and clomid?

The lose of my gains after my previous 8-week cycle was very surprising, because before (summer 2008) I ran Winstrol+T-bol for 6 weeks, and I even went up with my strength during my PCT (Tamoxifen+creatine).

I really don't know, what made difference. In both cases, I used Tamoxifen from the same reliable source. I suspect that after the 8-week cycle I may have used some sh*tty creatine (It turns out that some sorts of creatine I used during the recent years were useless sh*ts that didn't work at all - and I mistakenly ascribed it to my momentary fatigue.)

Anyway, I don't believe that Tamoxifen would be able to help me with my virtually zero test level. I think about ordering HCG.

In any case, the recovery of your testosterone levels is really admirable.

[BJJ]

The lose of my gains after my previous 8-week cycle was very surprising, because before (summer 2008) I ran Winstrol+T-bol for 6 weeks, and I even went up with my strength during my PCT (Tamoxifen+creatine).

I really don't know, what made difference. In both cases, I used Tamoxifen from the same reliable source. I suspect that after the 8-week cycle I may have used some sh*tty creatine (It turns out that some sorts of creatine I used during the recent years were useless sh*ts that didn't work at all - and I mistakenly ascribed it to my momentary fatigue.)

Anyway, I don't believe that Tamoxifen would be able to help me with my virtually zero test level. I think about ordering HCG.

In any case, the recovery of your testosterone levels is really admirable.

It was because I used Clomiphene with and their sinergy made the deal.
In my opinion you do not need HCG after an Oxandrolone only cycle. Do not complicate your life because with HCG you need an AI also. I presume the last thing you want is to raise your estrogens after your cycle!!!
Have you got any testicular shrinkage? I guess absolutely not, then I would just start a proper pct, very similar to the one I took and see no reasons for you not to recover your test.

BW = Blood Work

[Steroidman99]

It was because I used Clomiphene with and their sinergy made the deal.
In my opinion you do not need HCG after an Oxandrolone only cycle. Do not complicate your life because with HCG you need an AI also. I presume the last thing you want is to raise your estrogens after your cycle!!!
Have you got any testicular shrinkage? I guess absolutely not, then I would just start a proper pct, very similar to the one I took and see no reasons for you not to recover your test.

BW = Blood Work

Well...I have ever heard that combining Clomid with Tamoxifen is nonsense.

Personally I would like to stay away from Tamoxifen not only because it doesn't seem effective in me, but also because of some problematic health issues that are tied with this stuff (e.g. possible liver cancer after pro-longed use). Exemestane would be much better, but it is pretty expensive even from Chinese sources (I would have to buy 20 grams at once).

[BJJ]

AGE__________MALE_______________AGE_______________FEMALE

7-9__________< 9 ng/dL______________________________< 15 ng/dL
10-11________2-57 ng/dL_____________________________2-42 ng/dL
12-13________7-747 ng/dL____________________________6-64 ng/dL
14-15________33-585 ng/dL___________________________9-49 ng/dL
16-17________185-886 ng/dL__________________________8-63 ng/dL
18-39________300-1080 ng/dL______18-30______________11-59 ng/dL
40-59________350-890 ng/dL_______31-40______________11-56 ng/dL
> 60_________300-720 ng/dL_______41-51______________9-55 ng/dL
________________________________Postmenopause______6-25 ng/dL

[BJJ]

Well...I have ever heard that combining Clomid with Tamoxifen is nonsense.

Personally I would like to stay away from Tamoxifen not only because it doesn't seem effective in me, but also because of some problematic health issues that are tied with this stuff (e.g. possible liver cancer after pro-longed use). Exemestane would be much better, but it is pretty expensive even from Chinese sources (I would have to buy 20 grams at once).

We speak about three weeks!
You tried AAS but do not want to try Clomiphene?
Combining Clomid and Nolvadex make sense indeed because one acts differently from the other, and their sinergy is the key.

[BJJ]

What is BW? A lab test?

I started the cycle on December 7th, with low doses 30-40 mg/day (=actually 42-56 mg/day) and later increased the dosage up to 50 mg/day (=70 mg/day) during the 2nd week. I went as high as 55 mg/day (=80 mg/day) during the 4th week (December 26th-January 1st), but I saw no difference. I also used creatine throughout the whole cycle.

Curiously, my strength gains stopped after mere 5 weeks and although I further gained some weight, it must have been only water, because my face started to get a markedly puffy look. I gradually lowered the doses during the 8th week and I "officially" finished the cycle on January 31st. However, considering that I was waiting for S-4, which I wanted to use for PCT, I still must use 10 mg/day to prevent expectable crash. Thus, I have been actually running my 9th week on Anavar, albeit on a very small dose.

I was in the hospital today (Friday, February 5th) and they sent me the results of the lab tests several hours ago. Unfortunately, I haven't received S-4 yet, but when I see my test levels, I think I am rather ripe for HCG.

Note: I already know, where's the problem with the testosterone values. I confused ng/l with ng/dl. ng/dl is the correct value, so my test levels are 11.25 ng/dl - virtually non existent (roughly 2% of the average level of men of my age - 36 years!). I expected some suppression (with 80 mg/day, I could expect roughly 2/3 suppression), but this really took my breath. After my last 8-week cycle on stanozolol and T-bol (April-May 2009), I lost everything I gained within mere 2 weeks post-cycle, even on Tamoxifen. Now it is completely clear, where the problem is.

BW means blood work.

To me is normal to see your Test level so low after a cycle of OXA only.
The right PCT is the key, I believe.

You mean in spite of the use of Tamoxifen your test levels kept being low and that is the reason why you lost all of your gains?

1. Are you sure your diet was in check?
2. Are you sure you were really taking Tamoxifen?
3. Why did not you get a BW of Test Free, DHT and PRL, at least?

[Steroidman99]

AGE__________MALE_______________AGE_______________FEMALE

7-9__________< 9 ng/dL______________________________< 15 ng/dL
10-11________2-57 ng/dL_____________________________2-42 ng/dL
12-13________7-747 ng/dL____________________________6-64 ng/dL
14-15________33-585 ng/dL___________________________9-49 ng/dL
16-17________185-886 ng/dL__________________________8-63 ng/dL
18-39________300-1080 ng/dL______18-30______________11-59 ng/dL
40-59________350-890 ng/dL_______31-40______________11-56 ng/dL
> 60_________300-720 ng/dL_______41-51______________9-55 ng/dL
________________________________Postmenopause______6-25 ng/dL

Thanks. Now I know that I am a postmenopausal female!

[Steroidman99]

BW means blood work.

To me is normal to see your Test level so low after a cycle of OXA only.
The right PCT is the key, I believe.

You mean in spite of the use of Tamoxifen your test levels kept being low and that is the reason why you lost all of your gains?

1. Are you sure your diet was in check?
2. Are you sure you were really taking Tamoxifen?
3. Why did not you get a BW of Test Free, DHT and PRL, at least?

I expected worse numbers from liver and cholesterol tests, but not this testosterone. That's shocking for me. Even HIV patiens, who used 80 mg/day for 12 weeks had only 66.5% suppression on the average. Mine is 95+ %.

As for your further questions, I have never measured my blood levels until December last year. I reckoned with that Tamoxifen would be sufficient for PCT with Winstrol/T-bol, and that I wouldn't run an oral-only cycle more than twice, so I hadn't bothered with blood work. Unfortunately, I had to delay my planned third, transdermal cycle with boldenone and nandrolone, because I could not get any transdermal gel in time. Hence I decided to try Anavar instead.

[BJJ]

Thanks. Now I know that I am a postmenopausal female!

[BJJ]

I expected worse numbers from liver and cholesterol tests, but not this testosterone. That's shocking for me. Even HIV patiens, who used 80 mg/day for 12 weeks had only 66.5% suppression on the average. Mine is 95+ %.

As for your further questions, I have never measured my blood levels until December last year. I reckoned with that Tamoxifen would be sufficient for PCT with Winstrol/T-bol, and that I wouldn't run an oral-only cycle more than twice, so I hadn't bothered with blood work. Unfortunately, I had to delay my planned third, transdermal cycle with boldenone and nandrolone, because I could not get any transdermal gel in time. Hence I decided to try Anavar instead.

How do you plan to get back on track your testosterone level?

[Steroidman99]

How do you plan to get back on track your testosterone level?

I want to try S-4, 20 mg/day for at least 30 days. At this dosage, it shouldn't be suppressive and at the same time, it should be slightly anabolic. After those 30 days, I will check my blood values and decide, if it is of any use for PCT. Hopefully it arrives next week. Otherwise I would be in trouble and I would have to order HCG. I don't have access to exemestane, unfortunately.

Well, I forgot one thing in the connection with my first cycle: During the PCT I also used Clenbuterol, although only briefly - 7 days on+7 days off+3 days on. I couldn't stand permanent cramps and shaking of the whole body. Although opinions of Clenbuterol differ, it may have had some anti-catabolic effect.

[BJJ]

I want to try S-4, 20 mg/day for at least 30 days. At this dosage, it shouldn't be suppressive and at the same time, it should be slightly anabolic. After those 30 days, I will check my blood values and decide, if it is of any use for PCT. Hopefully it arrives next week. Otherwise I would be in trouble and I would have to order HCG. I don't have access to exemestane, unfortunately.

Well, I forgot one thing in the connection with my first cycle: During the PCT I also used Clenbuterol, although only briefly - 7 days on+7 days off+3 days on. I couldn't stand permanent cramps and shaking of the whole body. Although opinions of Clenbuterol differ, it may have had some anti-catabolic effect.

I am really struggling why you do not want to take into account clomiphene.
Anyway, I wish you a prompt recover.

PS
Watch out a possible estrogen raise with HCG. Keep on hand some AI.

[Steroidman99]

I am really struggling why you do not want to take into account clomiphene.

Too expensive!

[BJJ]

Too expensive!

[Steroidman99]

I started to take S-4 on Thursday. I wanted to take 20 mg/day, but during the last weeks the supplier had unexpectedly changed the concentration of his S-4, from 50 mg/ml to 100 mg/ml. Since the vial has no label, I mistakenly took 40 mg/day yesterday. (Damn!!!) Luckily, the volume seemed suspiciously small to me and I rather looked at his site again!

Next month I will post my lab results here again. I would like to know, if S-4 really isn't suppressive at 20 mg/day, as lab test suggest.

[russiandave]

great thread
its not very common to see a thread where people are supportive of an oral only / var only cycle.

i did read another guys thread where he is doing hgh and var and claiming to get great results.

i always wonder if hgh and var would be fine together even without test and people are just repeating what others have said before them, or if its really not the best idea. its really hard to tell.

good thread, keep up with all the updates

[Steroidman99]

great thread
its not very common to see a thread where people are supportive of an oral only / var only cycle.

i did read another guys thread where he is doing hgh and var and claiming to get great results.

i always wonder if hgh and var would be fine together even without test and people are just repeating what others have said before them, or if its really not the best idea. its really hard to tell.

good thread, keep up with all the updates

The Anavar cycle has been my best steroid investment so far! But everybody is different...

[over812]

Thanks BJJ! I've been interested in var for a long time and have been reading through all the posts I can find here in an effort to educate myself before I make any decisions. This is a great thread!

[BJJ]

I started to take S-4 on Thursday. I wanted to take 20 mg/day, but during the last weeks the supplier had unexpectedly changed the concentration of his S-4, from 50 mg/ml to 100 mg/ml. Since the vial has no label, I mistakenly took 40 mg/day yesterday. (Damn!!!) Luckily, the volume seemed suspiciously small to me and I rather looked at his site again!

Next month I will post my lab results here again. I would like to know, if S-4 really isn't suppressive at 20 mg/day, as lab test suggest.

Good Luck

great thread
its not very common to see a thread where people are supportive of an oral only / var only cycle.

i did read another guys thread where he is doing hgh and var and claiming to get great results.

i always wonder if hgh and var would be fine together even without test and people are just repeating what others have said before them, or if its really not the best idea. its really hard to tell.

good thread, keep up with all the updates

Thanks.
Oxa & HGH? Maybe in my 50s...

Thanks BJJ! I've been interested in var for a long time and have been reading through all the posts I can find here in an effort to educate myself before I make any decisions. This is a great thread!

Good call and thanks.

[russiandave]

How did you feel
as a general rule. did you feel like your test levels were down?

[BJJ]

How did you feel
as a general rule. did you feel like your test levels were down?

I felt fine throughout the cycle, as well as in PCT.

[Steroidman99]

I felt fine throughout the cycle, as well as in PCT.

This is interesting, because I felt fine, too. Anavar gave me a very pleasant feeling of slight euphoria. However, it lasted only 5 weeks, i.e. exactly the same time, when Anavar worked. I suppose the receptors were already overloaded then and both its anabolic effect and the euphoria disappeared.

During the following weeks I felt increasingly more and more suppressed, but still not as much as during a previous cycle with Winstrol. In fact, even now I don't feel any dramatic lethargy, although my testosterone levels are virtually zero... But I am still taking 5 mg Anavar/day together with S-4. I think that Anavar is more androgenic in this regard than Winstrol, i.e. it has some effect on libido. On the other hand, it is markedly less androgenic in the skin.

[BJJ]

This is interesting, because I felt fine, too. Anavar gave me a very pleasant feeling of slight euphoria. However, it lasted only 5 weeks, i.e. exactly the same time, when Anavar worked. I suppose the receptors were already overloaded then and both its anabolic effect and the euphoria disappeared.

During the following weeks I felt increasingly more and more suppressed, but still not as much as during a previous cycle with Winstrol. In fact, even now I don't feel any dramatic lethargy, although my testosterone levels are virtually zero... But I am still taking 5 mg Anavar/day together with S-4. I think that Anavar is more androgenic in this regard than Winstrol, i.e. it has some effect on libido. On the other hand, it is markedly less androgenic in the skin.

What do you mean by that exactly?

[russiandave]

Sorry If I somehow missed them, but are there any before and after pictures for this thread?

[BJJ]

Sorry If I somehow missed them, but are there any before and after pictures for this thread?

Are you kidding me?
There were photos yes, but I took them off.

I left the ones that really matter, post 2.

[russiandave]

No I'm not kidding you. I saw the two you left but IMO they aren't the only ones that matter. Being able to see a persons body and muscle definition etc are as telling as the photos you left. Why did you take the other photos down?

Are you kidding me?
There were photos yes, but I took them off.

I left the ones that really matter, post 2.

[BJJ]

No I'm not kidding you. I saw the two you left but IMO they aren't the only ones that matter. Being able to see a persons body and muscle definition etc are as telling as the photos you left. Why did you take the other photos down?

I disagree.
A photo can be deceptive, numbers are never.

I took them out because I was receiving strange messages.

[russiandave]

And I disagree
look numbers are nice but for most people here the proof is in the visual results as well.

Lol sorry to hear about the messages

I disagree.
A photo can be deceptive, numbers are never.

I took them out because I was receiving strange messages.

[BJJ]

And I disagree
look numbers are nice but for most people here the proof is in the visual results as well.

Lol sorry to hear about the messages

We both disagree.
We have something in common...

[Someguy123]

i dont recall seeing it covered. but whats the purpose of running proviron on a var only cycle?? var doesnt aromatize, so is it just for the small extra effect?? or this to make up any free testosterone, that might be shut down from the var??

[BJJ]

i dont recall seeing it covered. but whats the purpose of running proviron on a var only cycle?? var doesnt aromatize, so is it just for the small extra effect?? or this to make up any free testosterone, that might be shut down from the var??

I would say both.

[BJJ]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=424412

[Vitruvius]

Great thread. I´ve been following it pretty closely over the last few months. Do you have any recommendations on a substitude for proviron, if running a similar cycle to yours. (maybe masteron?)

[BJJ]

Great thread. I´ve been following it pretty closely over the last few months. Do you have any recommendations on a substitude for proviron, if running a similar cycle to yours. (maybe masteron?)

Yes, I think there is no other solution to substitute mesterolone than using drostanolone propionate.

[grinderman]

This thread is the thread that made me stop being a lurker and join up officially!! Thanks for this.

I'm really curious though, after so much information and painfully detailed stats that were carefully recorded and graciously logged on here; there are no pictures. Help a fellow man from the old country out - is there a way we could see any of the before/after pics? This is after all, the meatballs here and what we all aim for

BJJ - you put them up initially, any private links? (without sounding strange!)

[BJJ]

This thread is the thread that made me stop being a lurker and join up officially!! Thanks for this.

I'm really curious though, after so much information and painfully detailed stats that were carefully recorded and graciously logged on here; there are no pictures. Help a fellow man from the old country out - is there a way we could see any of the before/after pics? This is after all, the meatballs here and what we all aim for

BJJ - you put them up initially, any private links? (without sounding strange!)

Sorry but as already stated the pics posted were badly used and have no intention to go over that again.
Not all the members are here to share and learn, unfortunately.

Thanks for the kind words about the thread and glad you are not a lurker anymore.

[russiandave]

Hahahaaaaaa I told ya Bjj some people are ok with stats but most like to see before and after pictures.

[grinderman]

BJJ - I can't force you to put the pics up but i find it strange that you've gone to such effort to document everything yet there isn't even a blurred pic. You can make it small resolution of invert the colours to hide yourself if you like.

I haven't read in this thread and maybe it would help so many posters asking for this one piece of info left; how were the pictures 'badly used'?

I've seen other forums and pics of posing before/after var.

Just wanted to understand why. Thanks!

[MrBeat]

Hey BJJJ

Appreciate your effort keeping such a detailed cycle log. Im thinking of doing my own anavar cycle soon and seeing the knowledge and research you seem to have done on the area I was wondring what you would think of adding CyX3 instead of the clenbuterol?


CYX3 is: " (an oral blend of T3, Yohimbine and Clenbuterol)

Combines the synergistic fat burning power of beta adrenergic agonists) and alpha adrenergic antagonists (Yohimbine HCl), all to add the T3 characteristics of increase the metabolic rate by increasing Thyroid efficiency.

Clenbuterol - 37.5mcg

T3 - 25mcg

Yohimbine 5.4mg "


Any feedback on the matter would be good, whether you think its a good idea / or not.

Again thanks for the effort put into keeping such a detailed log.

[BJJ]

Hey BJJJ

Appreciate your effort keeping such a detailed cycle log. Im thinking of doing my own anavar cycle soon and seeing the knowledge and research you seem to have done on the area I was wondring what you would think of adding CyX3 instead of the clenbuterol?


CYX3 is: " (an oral blend of T3, Yohimbine and Clenbuterol)

Combines the synergistic fat burning power of beta adrenergic agonists) and alpha adrenergic antagonists (Yohimbine HCl), all to add the T3 characteristics of increase the metabolic rate by increasing Thyroid efficiency.

Clenbuterol - 37.5mcg

T3 - 25mcg

Yohimbine 5.4mg "


Any feedback on the matter would be good, whether you think its a good idea / or not.

Again thanks for the effort put into keeping such a detailed log.

Thanks for the nice words.

Regarding your question, Oxandrolone can be run with either Mesterolone or Drostanolone Propionate in order to have a proper sinergy; this is what I would advise you to take into account.

I see no point in using Clenbuterol, T3 and Yohimbine all together since in order to use Oxandrolone one should be already lean and so being already with a good body fat % you just need to know how to eat to get ripped.