IGF question for Jhonny B and Pinn

[Pinnacle]

Some sources overhere selled igf1-lr3 (named nutral), it was tested by someone and there wasnt igf in it but rat-insulin. u can check the test overhere:
http://www.bodyofscience.com/dynamic...df694ea5f9149e

Everyone who used it were very excited, great pumps, fat-loss and strength/mass increase. But this was just a placebo-effect, they invested quiete a lot of money in the igf and then u want to see some results...
greetz

Awesome fred6!!

As Red Baron stated above(and I suspected as well).Insulin of some sort seems to be in the vials we are using.That explains the pumps,headaches and slight feelings of hypoglycemia at times.I still can't explain what is in the vials that causes weight loss.That is not a placebo effect by any means.It's a reality I've experienced first hand while on a non restricted diet.So i don't have any idea what exactly is in the vials we are using,but one thing is for certain,it's not LR3 IGF-1.But that of some poorly made copy by some Chinese labs.

~Pinnacle~

[IBdmfkr]

Unfortunately, that is a very scary truth Pinnacle.

[goose]

Does anyone know how we can test it? What companies offer this service?

goose4....

[Pinnacle]

Unfortunately, that is a very scary truth Pinnacle.

On another note.I terminated my LR3 cycle as of yesterday.

Why you ask?For the cash I've dolled out to run the high dose cycle,I could have easily accomplished these results WITHOUT the use of this unknown substance I've been injecting.I've leaned out dramatically,but I also have been experiencing head aches and extreme lethargy at times.Not to mention conditions of hypoglycemia upon wakening in the mornings.

~Pinnacle~

[IBdmfkr]

Glad to hear that Pinn, until we find out more I'd stay off of it personally. I wiped it from my upcoming cycle.

[BG]

Glad to hear that Pinn, until we find out more I'd stay off of it personally. I wiped it from my upcoming cycle.

I did also, Ill buy a little more AS to make up for it.

[BG]

Beta-2 receptor agonists/antagonist drugs induce brohncodilation. Contries where clen is approved for legit medical use in humans, this is what its perscribed for (asthma patients).

Do you know a dosage for asthma use, this is the time of year it kicks it up a notch.Thanks BG

[Triposinator]

Weird, I only had headaches and lethargy when I didn't follow the Carb intake schedule that several people (you too??) recommended.

Can't second guess your decision to stop at all though these are the only bodies we're gonna get.

On another note.I terminated my LR3 cycle as of yesterday.

Why you ask?For the cash I've dolled out to run the high dose cycle,I could have easily accomplished these results WITHOUT the use of this unknown substance I've been injecting.I've leaned out dramatically,but I also have been experiencing head aches and extreme lethargy at times.Not to mention conditions of hypoglycemia upon wakening in the mornings.

~Pinnacle~

[Pinnacle]

Weird, I only had headaches and lethargy when I didn't follow the Carb intake schedule that several people (you too??) recommended.

Can't second guess your decision to stop at all though these are the only bodies we're gonna get.

I was using a very high dose.So I attribute some of that to my side effects.In the lower dose spectrum,I didn't experience these sides at all.
I didn't stop the cycle because of the sides.

~Pinnacle~

[powerliftmike]

Awesome fred6!!

As Red Baron stated above(and I suspected as well).Insulin of some sort seems to be in the vials we are using.That explains the pumps,headaches and slight feelings of hypoglycemia at times.I still can't explain what is in the vials that causes weight loss.That is not a placebo effect by any means.It's a reality I've experienced first hand while on a non restricted diet.So i don't have any idea what exactly is in the vials we are using,but one thing is for certain,it's not LR3 IGF-1.But that of some poorly made copy by some Chinese labs.

~Pinnacle~

I strongly agree with not placebo effect. this is b/c i dropped BF when using lr3igf and i wasnt expecting that to happen at all, and actually did not want to loose any fat. Diet was not a cutting one either.

So do you guys think we are de****g with some watered-down slin with some mysterious fat burner as an additive?

[powerliftmike]

Do you know a dosage for asthma use, this is the time of year it kicks it up a notch.Thanks BG

In a clinical setting for asthma treatment a low dose (not sure exactly) is taken for usually quite some time or when asthma symptons disappear. Non-medical users looking for fat-loss greatly increase the dose needed (60-120mcg). I would say 10-20mcg should treat asthma. Remember since this is an oral med it cannot be used on the spot to treat an asthma attack, if you have this problem. (get an inhaler or other medication from your doctor)

[AnabolicAndre]

dude whatever it is, I think its loosing its appeal!

But see i was running searches last night for studies and I came up with a site, and a manufacturer that has a analysis that is shipped with their product. That makes it seem a little more legit, and their prices is like 5- 1mg kits is over 5000$! They too are based out of china. They claim to have sprouted from GenSci.

[bocephus312]

ok. This supplement is all hype and not worth the cost of even having to get it or what? My Question is..... Is it worth even getting if this is the first thing you want to try? Im a 32 year old man. I want to get lean. I am 5'9" 220 and have no idea what me body fat composition is but im fat. I want to gain strength and lean out...... no doubt.

Help
Thanks

[SPIKE]

ok. This supplement is all hype and not worth the cost of even having to get it or what? My Question is..... Is it worth even getting if this is the first thing you want to try? Im a 32 year old man. I want to get lean. I am 5'9" 220 and have no idea what me body fat composition is but im fat. I want to gain strength and lean out...... no doubt.

Help
Thanks

At 5'9" 220 and saying that you're fat, you should be in the diet section not GH.

[IBdmfkr]

No doubt, you need to try a good diet, drugs are not the answer.

[goose]

ok. This supplement is all hype and not worth the cost of even having to get it or what? My Question is..... Is it worth even getting if this is the first thing you want to try? Im a 32 year old man. I want to get lean. I am 5'9" 220 and have no idea what me body fat composition is but im fat. I want to gain strength and lean out...... no doubt.

Help
Thanks

You need a drug like Xenical it will helps you to achieve weight loss without suppressing your appetite.It is one of the most successfull treatment forweightloss.The diet is the key.

goose4..

[Pinnacle]

You need a drug like Xenical it will helps you to achieve weight loss without suppressing your appetite.It is one of the most successfull treatment forweightloss.The diet is the key.

goose4..

NEXT!

[goose]

NEXT!

Next...is banned.


goose4..

[Pinnacle]

Next...is banned.


goose4..

I know...loss to the board,but fortunetly I've become good friends with him and chat with him on msn.Great guy with wonderful experience and knowledge.

~Pinnacle~

[IBdmfkr]

Ya we miss Mike, R.I.P. NYBIGMIKE

[powerliftmike]

Ya we miss Mike, R.I.P. NYBIGMIKE

True.

[BG]

In a clinical setting for asthma treatment a low dose (not sure exactly) is taken for usually quite some time or when asthma symptons disappear. Non-medical users looking for fat-loss greatly increase the dose needed (60-120mcg). I would say 10-20mcg should treat asthma. Remember since this is an oral med it cannot be used on the spot to treat an asthma attack, if you have this problem. (get an inhaler or other medication from your doctor)

Thanks, I have a rescue inhaler, maybe Ill just try some clen to see if it helps keep it down. Sometimes while training I just get easliy winded, no need for the inhaler but still effects my workout, thanks for the reply.BG

[Pinnacle]

Some sources overhere selled igf1-lr3 (named nutral), it was tested by someone and there wasnt igf in it but rat-insulin. u can check the test overhere:
http://www.bodyofscience.com/dynamic...df694ea5f9149e

Everyone who used it were very excited, great pumps, fat-loss and strength/mass increase. But this was just a placebo-effect, they invested quiete a lot of money in the igf and then u want to see some results...
greetz

Since fred9 put this valuable info out.I'll post a reply from Gropep.Granted,alot of what this man is saying is to keep gropep from liability suits.But I do beieve what the websites are selling ISN'T LR3.We've already discussed that earlier in this thread.



Thank you for your e-mail and additional information.

I will split your questions up into:

1. Does IGF-I work for bodybuilding?
2. Is LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I available?
3. Does LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I work for bodybuilding?

I have split it into parts for one very, very important reason. IGF-I
is a natural molecule, the same molecule your body makes. In contrast,
LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I was created by GroPep and is an artificial molecule
that has been extensively modified from the original IGF-I. Due to
these modifications LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I has a totally different shape and
different biological properties to the original IGF-I molecule. There is
a crazy belief within the athletic and bodybuilding fraternity that
IGF-I and LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I are the same or that results published about
IGF-I automatically apply to LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I. This is total rubbish
and a very dangerous assumption. LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I IS NOT THE SAME
MOLECULE AS IGF-I AND DOES NOT BEHAVE LIKE IGF-I. It is like saying
that dioxin has the same effects as dioxan because they are spelt the
same! This is a very big and potentially deadly mistake - just ask the
people of Seveso in Italy! So in the following discussion when I say
IGF-I I mean IGF-I. I DO NOT mean IGF-I AND LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I. If I am
referring to LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I only I will say so.

So with that very important point made, let's deal with your questions.

1. Does IGF-I work for bodybuilding?
I know of no scientific publication that shows selective muscle build up
following IGF-I administration in any species other than the rat. In
fact, due to various complications and side effects, systemic
administration of IGF-I has often been found in clinical trials to
decrease rather than increase lean muscle mass. So from a muscle
building point of view IGF-I doesn't work. Even the more reputable Body
Building magazines say so. IGF-I administration has only been shown to
increase lean muscle mass in rats, not in humans. Furthermore, to the
best of my knowledge, all the clinical trials that have been undertaken
using systemic IGF-I for building muscle mass have either been
terminated prematurely due to adverse reactions or have not proven
effective.


2. Is LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I available to the bodybuilding community?
As I mentioned to you before, LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I is a GroPep Patented
product manufactured exclusively by GroPep for use in Cell Culture.
GroPep is the world's only manufacturer of LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I, so the
sale and supply of LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I is very carefully monitored and we
know exactly where it goes and to who. Our shipments do not go missing.
If any is getting to the bodybuilding community and I doubt it is, then
it would only be a tiny amount, barely enough to treat a mouse let alone
a person.

Bodybuilders would not have access to significant amounts of IGF-I or
LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I for one simple reason - there is very little of it
manufactured. More IGF-I or LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I is supposedly available
in any gym, on any street in any city, or through any website at any
time than we or all the world's manufacturers of IGF-I could make in 10
years working round the clock. What is on offer therefore, cannot
possibly be IGF-I or LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I. Furthermore we have never found
IGF-I or LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I in any vial we have been given to analyse,
irrespective of what it may say on the label. Finally, making IGF-I or
LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I is very difficult. It is not something that a
back-yard lab could do.

As I have said, the mistaken belief that IGF-I and particularly
LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I are useful as performance enhancing agents has
resulted in a high demand for LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I and a thriving trade in
counterfeit products or GroPep vials, vials that do not contain what is
claimed on the label. What is in these vials is anybody's guess. To
therefore use them would be the chemical equivilant of Russian Roulette.


3. Does LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I work for bodybuilding?
As I have already demonstrated that no-one is getting LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I
how would they know whether it works or not? Sure people may THINK they
are getting LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I but as they are not getting real
LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I then they can't tell. As I mentioned before, anything
anyone tells you to the contrary is rubbish, irrespective of what
evidence or experience they CLAIM to have.

What comes next is the most important part of this entire e-mail. As I
have repeatedly said here and in my earlier e-mail: LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I
IS POTENTIALLY UNSAFE AND SHOULD NEVER UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES BE USED
IN HUMANS. The modifications GroPep made to the original IGF-I molecule
to create LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I dramatically change its shape and biological
properties. These modifications do not cause a problem for isolated
cells in culture but can be a potentially big problem for the intact
animal, as isolated cells do not have kidneys or an immune system. This
has nothing to do with purity, it is the modifications that have been
made to create the LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I molecule that make it potentially
fatal. So LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I is unsafe and totally unsuitable for use in
humans - period! Anyone who tells you otherwise doesn't know what they
are talking about and obviously has difficulty understanding what the
word "fatal" means!

The saving grace in all this is what people are claiming to be using
can't possibly be LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I, as I have explained above. For
your information the problem with LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I is that the "LONG"
part of the LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I molecule is highly immunogenic. This
means that repeated injections of LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I could result in the
immune system generating an anaphylaxis reaction, which can be fatal -
as anyone who is allergic to bee stings will tell you. It is also
likely that the immune response to the LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I would
cross-react with the IGF-I that their body was naturally producing.
This would mean that the immune system would remove all the IGF-I their
bodies produced - forever. So injecting LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I could have
the opposite effect to what they are hoping for, eliminating all the
IGF-I from their bodies rather than boosting it - and doing so for the
rest of their lives. Indeed, we use LONG[TM]R[3]IGF-I in house to raise
antibodies against IGF-I in animals, so we know the phonomenon is real.

I won't bother to discuss the potential problems with the kidneys...
Needless to say, they are similarly nasty.

So what people say or believe they are using and what they are actually
using are not the same thing - which is just as well for them! As I
said, chemical Russian Roulette...

I hope this information is helpful.

Kindest regards,

Dr. Stephen Hardy

[ajfina]

SCARYYY dude, wow
not good for MR defenetely
can he step up on that?

[JiGGaMaN]

woah first time on this forum. i just learned so much on igf from one thread its rediculous. its like a whole new world of AR i never knew existed.

[ajfina]

what about gensci? they r not UGl right?

[redmuscle3]

Jenscience, a reputable Chinese Pharmacutitcal house, manufactures IGF-1 long, like they do HGH....so it says -- what are you guys saying Jenscience is a hoax? Its products are used world wide...find that hard to believe....I think we need to have more brands of this stuff tested...and not base our ideas on the results of one test of one brand. Also that a company has a copyright does not necessarily prevent other Pharmacies, like Jenscience form making the stuff,copy wright laws vary as does enforcement...Further when IGF (natural) was tested it was tested using huge dosages and found safe according to Rea. If IGF-1 r3 is being tested with dosages nobody takes - are the results valid? We drown in water, but it dont mean it aint good for me. These Tests of IGF-1 r3 referred to here, what dosages were they using (100mcg/day or 10,000 mcg/day?) ....Enquiring minds what to know....

[Pinnacle]

Jenscience, a reputable Chinese Pharmacutitcal house, manufactures IGF-1 long, like they do HGH....so it says -- what are you guys saying Jenscience is a hoax? Its products are used world wide...find that hard to believe....I think we need to have more brands of this stuff tested...and not base our ideas on the results of one test of one brand. Also that a company has a copyright does not necessarily prevent other Pharmacies, like Jenscience form making the stuff,copy wright laws vary as does enforcement...Further when IGF (natural) was tested it was tested using huge dosages and found safe according to Rea. If IGF-1 r3 is being tested with dosages nobody takes - are the results valid? We drown in water, but it dont mean it aint good for me. These Tests of IGF-1 r3 referred to here, what dosages were they using (100mcg/day or 10,000 mcg/day?) ....Enquiring minds what to know....

First of it's GENESCIENCE.At least know how to spell the companies name when trying to instigate a debate.It truly helps your credibility.
It's true,gensci is reputable.They make a quality copy of HGH,BUT there IGF is questionable on it's quality.Have YOU ran it?If so,what were your results?
You need to understand copyright laws don't apply in China.So again,understand what you are talking about before entering a debate.
L Rea says?Cut me a fvkin break pal.Where's his proof to his claims?
Get back to us when you have a little more bounce in your step.


NEXT

[redmuscle3]

First my man get off your high horse, its not necessary to be high and mighty here about stuff that clearly no one (that includeS you) has a clear answer to...I have an IQ of 146 but i admit cant spell worth a shit..so sue me, AND U KNOW WHAT U CAN DO WITH YOUR RED SCHOOL MARM PENCIL PIN ...

And i have no doubt there is substantial fraud in the igf-1 r3 market, like there is with roids in general no doubt...but the notion that vertually all IGF-1 r3 being sold is crap is not credible to me.

GenSci makes Jintropin hence the J in my misspelling..Jintropin is used world wide to treat aids, and growth disfunctions in children..I have used it..I have not used its IGF-1 r3 but i have NO DOUBT IT IS A LIGITIMATE PRODUCT.....LIKE I POINTED OUT IN MY FIRST STRING HERE, OR MAYBE U HAVE PROBLEMS READING...COPYWRITE LAWS DIFFERE COUNTRY BY COUNTRY (I.E. THEY MAY NOT APPLY TO CHINA), HENCE THE ASSERTION IN THE STRINGS ABOVE THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE SOURCE FOR IGF-1 R3 IS WRONG...THERE ARE A NUMBER OF SOURCES WORLDWIDE...IN ADDITION THE ASSERTION THAT ONLY A LITTLE TINY BIT IS MADE IS ALSO WRONG BECOUSE IT DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE STUFF MADE OUTSIDE THE USA. YOU DONT KNOW GENSCI STUFF IS CRAP AND U SHOULD NOT INFER OTHERWISE. GENSCI CAN BE SUED BTW IN HAS SUBS IN EUROPE AND I SUSPECT IN THE USA AS WELL.....REA IN CHEMICAL MUSCLE ENHANCEMENT PG 135 STATES " IGF-1 HAS BEEN USED CLINICALLY ON CHILDREN AT DOSAGES OF OVER 3-7MG DAILY. THAT IS 3000-7000MCG A DAY! NO NEGATIVE SIDE EFFECTS WERE RECORDED, THOUGH NONE WERE EXPECTED" HIS SOURCES ARE STATED AT THE END OF THE BOOK...REA IS MORE AUTHORATIVE THAN YOU IN MY BOOK. SO I WANNA KNOW HOW MUCH IGF-1 R3 WAS USED IN THE STUDIES CITED -WAS IT BY YOU ABOVE? THAT CONCLUDED IGF-1 R3 WAS HARMFUL (UNLIKE IGF-1)...OR DID U FAIL TO READ THAT LITTLE DETAIL? IF THE DOSSAGES WERE MASSIVE, LIKE IN THE IGF-1 STUDIES...MAY I INTRODUCE THE NOTION THAT THEY MAY BE IRRELIVENT?

[Maldorf]

Beta-2 receptor agonists/antagonist drugs induce brohncodilation. Contries where clen is approved for legit medical use in humans, this is what its perscribed for (asthma patients).

I have asthma and did find myself using my albuterol inhailer less often while on the clen. Both substances are beta2 agonists. I have heard that albuterol can have similar fat loss characteristics as clenbuterol, anyhow have info on that? I use my albuterol on a regular basis and so have no way of telling if it aids in fat loss, nothing for me to compare it to. I think from what I found, the dosage of albuterol would have to be much higher than what is found in an inhailer.

[Pinnacle]

First my man get off your high horse, its not necessary to be high and mighty here about stuff that clearly no one (that includeS you) has a clear answer to...I have an IQ of 146 but i admit cant spell worth a shit..so sue me. And i have no doubt there is substantial fraud in the igf-1 r3 market, like there is with roids in general no doubt...but the notion that vertually all IGF-1 r3 being sold is crap is not credible to me.

GenSci makes Jintropin hence the J in my misspelling..Jintropin is used world wide to treat aids, and growth disfunctions in children..I have used it..I have not used its IGF-1 r3 but i have NO DOUBT IT IS A LIGITIMATE PRODUCT.....LIKE I POINTED OUT IN MY FIRST STRING HERE, OR MAYBE U HAVE PROBLEMS READING...COPYWRITE LAWS DIFFERE COUNTRY BY COUNTRY (I.E. THEY MAY NOT APPLY TO CHINA), HENCE THE ASSERTION IN THE STRINGS ABOVE THAT THERE IS ONLY ONE SOURCE FOR IGF-1 R3 IS WRONG...THERE ARE A NUMBER OF SOURCES WORLDWIDE...IN ADDITION THE ASSERTION THAT ONLY A LITTLE TINY BIT IS MADE IS ALSO WRONG BECOUSE IT DOES NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE STUFF MADE OUTSIDE THE USA. YOU DONT KNOW GENSCI STUFF IS CRAP AND U SHOULD NOT INFER OTHERWISE. GENSCI CAN BE SUED BTW IN HAS SUBS IN EUROPE AND I SUSPECT IN THE USA AS WELL.....REA IN CHEMICAL MUSCLE ENHANCEMENT PG 135 STATES " IGF-1 HAS BEEN USED CLINICALLY ON CHILDREN AT DOSAGES OF OVER 3-7MG DAILY. THAT IS 3000-7000MCG A DAY! NO NEGATIVE SIDE EFFECTS WERE RECORDED, THOUGH NONE WERE EXPECTED" HIS SOURCES ARE STATED AT THE END OF THE BOOK...REA IS MORE AUTHORATIVE THAN YOU IN MY BOOK. SO I WANNA KNOW HOW MUCH IGF-1 R3 WAS USED IN THE STUDIES CITED -WAS IT BY YOU ABOVE? THAT CONCLUDED IGF-1 R3 WAS HARMFUL (UNLIKE IGF-1)...OR DID U FAIL TO READ THAT LITTLE DETAIL? IF THE DOSSAGES WERE MASSIVE, LIKE IN THE IGF-1 STUDIES...MAY I INTRODUCE THE NOTION THAT THEY MAY BE IRRELIVENT?

Personally I don't give a flying fvk what your IQ is/or what you say it is.

You are rambling .I haven't any problems reading,you however, have a difficult time attempting to make sense.What LR3 studies are sited in this thread?

Why do YOU think there is ACTUAL LR3 IGF-1 avavilable?What leads you to that BOLD conclusion?

Do YOU know who/where all these labs are that are supposedly making actual LR3 IGF-1 that is identical in structure to gropeps?

Since when was/is LR3 being made in the US?
You do realize gropep is from Australia,right Einstein?

Post up the studies to L Rea's claims .Let's see those high dose studies published on PubMed.

I haven't had Gensci's supposed LR3 tested,nor have I seen any tests as of yet.But far to many ppl claim zero to lousy results using thier LR3 kits.So just because a company has a decent name,all there products are of quality?
You've never heard of generic LR3?You DO know what generic is,right?

[Pinnacle]

.I have not used its IGF-1 r3

I missed this.

You've never used LR3 by any one company,or different companies to do a comparison in results?Yet you are running your mouth off like you know for certain Gensci's LR3 product is good?
Wouldn't it lend credence to your claims if you at least used LR3 once to know what it feels like and what it actually does to your physique?Or you don't feel the need to experiment since L. Rea is your hero?

And please explain to me and all the others why when L.Rea makes outrageous claims on anabolic boards,then gets called out,he disappears without ever addressing the issues or posting studies to back his assine claims? Or aren't you aware of that fact?You never seen him run from anabolic boards?He's a piece of shit who can't back hardly any of his beliefs/claims with studies.But that is what you would call competent?

[ajfina]

well ,i used igf-lr3 from gensci in conjuction with gh(serono) and lots of juice , to be honest i've never had those "pumps" people talk about ,was using 60-80mcg first time , one thing i noticed that i was dreaming like crazy the entire night other than that no big gains like people and some article says that IGF-LR3 is the bomb ( i was expecting more), i have to admite that it defenetely cured my bad knee in that month i was on igf-lr3 and gh, that i give to the igf right after the second week of using it the pain on my knee went away foreever
i can't say i didn't have any good results from the igf(gebsci) in some way it worked for me
more and more i admite to myself that there is not a shortcut on this game u still have to kick ur ass at the gym

[redmuscle3]

I have used IGF-1 r3 and liked it....BUT NOT GENSCI STUFF - TOO EXPENSIVE. But I have recently found a very cheap source for it, and am planning on buying 3000mcg of it...I wanna be clear - I am not vouching for anything...but I am voicing doubt about all IGF-1 r3 being placebos or slin etc., and separately as to its ineffectiveness....

I cant prove shit JUST LIKE U CANT - BE REAL...THE BURDEN OF PROOF RESTS WITH THE GUY MAKING THE ACCUSATIONS .I.E. THAT IS YOU PENICAL..NOT ME. I cant prove my sustanon is legitimate, or my winnie...and u know what I don’t need to...I KNOW THEY WORKING AND ITS GOOD ENOUPH FOR ME....

We have two issue here...First the legitimacy of IGF-1 r3 available...pinical says its all crap...I don’t believe this at all....its his burden to show GenSci stuff is not real not mine...Secondly the effectiveness of igf-1 r3 for gaining muscle mass...

THE BURDEN OF PROFF IS ON ..YOU PINICAL with respect to both assertions since YOU ARE making them ...I do know YOU MADE ERRONEOUS STATEMENTS ABOUT IGF-1 R3 AS FOLLOWS :

1. THERE IS ONLY ONE MANUFACTURER OF IGF-1 R3 -THIS IS WRONG (YOU ADMITS TO THIS WHEN YOU ADDMITTED THAT COPYWRIGHT LAWS DONT APPLY TO CHINA)

2. THAT ONLY A TINY AMOUNT IS PRODUCED EACH YEAR SUCH THAT THE STUFF BEING SOLD COULD NOT BE REAL...AGIAN WRONG...YOU DO NOT ACCOUNT FOR STUFF MADE BY OTHER MANUFACTURERS. Account for the stuff made in China and maybe u would be more credible...dismissing it all as crap without proof ...please not good enough for me....

THE BURDEN IS ON PINICAL TO SHOW GENSCI STUFF IS NOT IGF-1 R3 - HE IS THE ONE CASTING ASPERIONS - NOT ME. I DONT BELIEVE HIM - GOT IT!! IF U THINKK HE IS CREDIBLE REGARDING GENSCI STUFF - SUPER, DONT BUY IT. GenSci has a lable on its products, clearly identifying it as IGF-1 R3 made through reconbinant RNA and can be sued in China, and likely in Europe if its lable is wrong....

SEPORATELY AS TO THE INEFFECTIVENESS OF IGF-1 R3 (THATS A SEPORATE ISSUE) I AM NOT CONVINCED...IF IT WORKS ON RATS...IT SHOULD WORK ON HUMANS...I WANNA READ THOSE STUDIES FIRST HAND...U GOT THE REFERENCES FOR THEM PENICAL...CARE TO SHARE THEM? OR THEY A BIG SECRET?

PINICAL CITES STUDES...THAT HE DOES NOT DISCLOSE TO SHOW THAT EVEN IF U SOMEHOW MIRACULOUSLY ABTAINED REAL IGF-1 R3 ITS INEFECTIVE (UNLESS U R A RAT). AGAIN HOW MUCH IGF-1 R 3 WAS GIVEN IN THOSE STUDIES? PUT UP OR SHUT UP HERE....U READ THOSE STUDIES AND KNOW, OR U DID NOT READ THEM AND ARE JUST BARKING...I WANNA READ THEM MYSELF....BEFORE I PASS JUDGEMENT

[rodge]

i have used igtropin 3 times in the past and i liked the results of it. due to the high cost of it i was'nt able to run it properly. al 3 runs were at 50mcg but none of them i runned 7/7 for 4 weeks wich i did with MR. so is igtropin garbage? not in my book but MR is only a fraction of the cost with the same or slightly better results. but this could be because as i said i could run it 7/7 and at a slightly higher dose. however i do find that it acts similiar as far as sides concern(ie lethargy/bloodsugar).

-rodge

[rodge]

guys lets keep this an decent debat and not let it turn into a pissing contest.

-rodge

[JohnnyB]

I know we have had several of these Igf questions answered over and over again, but I am looking for your personal experiences as far as dosing and injection times

I am currently on my 9th igf cycle, I unlike many others started my 1st at 80mcg daily split in 2 doses of 40mcg

I have ran all the others at 100 mcg also split in 2 doses

Have either of you run doses at 100mcg daily in 1 dose and if so were the results more or less pronouced???

in my personal experience IGF is very usefull for changes in body composition I have seen little muscle gains on each cycle.

I have used IGF alone at 100mcg daily and noticed a 2lbs increase over a 30day period



thanks guys

I used 100mcg in one dose post w/o and seen some nice results

JohnnyB

[Pinnacle]

I have used IGF-1 r3 and liked it....BUT NOT GENSCI STUFF - TOO EXPENSIVE. But i have recently found a very cheap source for it, and am planning on buying 3000mcg of it...I wanna be clear - i am not vouching for anything...but i am voicing doubt about all IGF-1 r3 being plecebos or slin etc., and separately as to its ineffectiveness....

I cant prove shit JUST LIKE U CANT - BE REAL...THE BURDEN OF PROOF RESTS WITH THE GUY MAKING THE ACCUSATIONS .I.E. PENICAL..NOT ME. i cant prove my sustanon is legitimate, or my winnie...and u know what I dont need to...I KNOW THEY WORKING AND ITS GOOD ENOUPH FOR ME....

We have two issue here...First the legitimacy of IGF-1 r3 available...pinical says its all crap...i dont believe this at all....its his burden to show GenSci stuff is not real not mine...Secondly the effectiveness of igf-1 r3 for gaining muscle mass...Prove to me it's real!

THE BURDEN OF PROFF IS ON ..PINICAL with respect to both assertions since he is making them ...i do know he MADE ERRONEOUS STATEMENTS ABOUT IGF-1 R3 TO WHICH ARE :

1. THERE IS ONLY ONE MANUFACTURER OF IGF-1 R3 -THIS IS WRONG (HE ADMITS TO THIS WHEN HE ADDMITTED THAT COPYWRIGHT LAWS DONT APPLY TO CHINA) I simply stated that the LR3 that is being sold is a copy of gropeps LR3.It is not the actual LR3 they designed.Meaning generic!

2. THAT ONLY A TINY AMOUNT IS PRODUCED EACH YEAR SUCH THAT THE STUFF BEING SOLD COULD NOT BE REAL...AGIAN WRONG...HE DOES NOT ACCOUNT FOR STUFF MADE OUTSIDE THE USA. Account for the stuff made outside the usa and maybe u would be more credible...dismissing it all as crap without proof ...please not good enough for me....USA?what are you talking about?there are no known labs in the USA that manufacture LR3.You are rambling ,once again~

THE BURDEN IS ON PINICAL TO SHOW GENSCI STUFF IS NOT IGF-1 R3 - HE IS THE ONE CASTING ASPERIONS - NOT ME. I DONT BELIEVE HIM - GOT IT!! IF U THINKK HE IS CREDIBLE REGARDING GENSCI STUFF - SUPER, DONT BUY IT. I could give two shits what you think!All I'm saying is they are making a copy of the actual LR3 that gropep developed.And I'm not the only one who thinks this.You just want to put on some half assed attacked on me with nothing to back up your statements.

SEPORATELY AS TO THE INEFFECTIVENESS OF IGF-1 R3 (THATS A SEPORATE ISSUE) I AM NOT CONVINCED...IF IT WORKS ON RATS...IT SHOULD WORK ON HUMANS...I WANNA READ THOSE STUDIES FIRST HAND...U GOT THE REFERENCES FOR THEM PENICAL...CARE TO SHARE THEM? OR THEY A BIG SECRET?What studies on LR3?There are NO studies on LR3 in humans.What is it you are not getting here Einstien?Did you not read the e mail I posted from gropep?

PINICAL CITES STUDES...THAT HE DOES NOT DISCLOSE TO SHOW THAT EVEN IF U SOMEHOW MIRACULOUSLY ABTAINED REAL IGF-1 R3 ITS INEFECTIVE (UNLESS U R A RAT). AGAIN HOW MUCH IGF-1 R 3 WAS GIVEN IN THOSE STUDIES? PUT UP OR SHUT UP HERE....U READ THOSE STUDIES AND KNOW, OR U DID NOT READ THEM AND ARE JUST BARKING...I WANNA READ THEM MYSELF....BEFORE I PASS JUDGEMENT

again what studies Einstien?What studies do you keep referring to that I posted? ??????????

~Pinnacle~

[redmuscle3]

Einstein here is a copy and past from your post above citing clinical TRIALS s on igf-1 R3:

"In fact, due to various complications and side effects, systemic
administration of IGF-I has often been found in clinical trials to
decrease rather than increase lean muscle mass. So from a muscle
building point of view IGF-I doesn't work."

U asked me to point out the studies u cited (in your email)..WHAT U CANT READ YOUR OWN EMAIL? ok SO I just did for you - NOW GIVE ME THEIR CITES SO I CAN LOOK THEM UP....AND READ THE RESULTS OF THESE CLINICAL TRIALS MYSELF....or what u cant get them?

...i dont need no stinking studies Pinical Einstein - u do however...u making the assertions, throwing penny PR ideas out like they were man hole covers - PUT UP OR SHUT UP ABOUT YOUR ASSERTIONS....CITE YOUR STUDIES....UNTILL U DO, WHAT U SAID IS NOT CREDIBLE --- GOT IT...

DEMONSTRATE GENSCI STUFF IS CRAP AND NOT IGF-1 R3 AS IT CLAIMS.

DOEMOSTRATE THAT IGF-1 R3 IS INNEFECTIVE ON HUMANS AND IS INFACT TOXIC TO HUMANS...SHOW UP OR SHUT UP BUDDY....CITE THEM....NOW....

and guys for the record you got insulin side effects from high dosages of IGF-1 becouse IGF (INSULIN LIKE GROWTH FACTOR) acts like insulin - hence the name...but unlike slin...u lost body fat...that for me means more likely than not what u were using was the real deal...u tend to get fat on slin guys....

[Pinnacle]

...i dont need no stinking studies Pinical Einstein - u do however...u making the assertions - PUT UP OR SHUT UP ABOUT YOUR ASSERTIONS....CITE YOUR STUDIES....UNTILL U DO, WHAT U SAID IS NOT CREDIBLE --- GOT IT...Let me try this one final time einstien.Everyone is entitled to there opinion.You know what my opinion is on Gensci's LR3,and all others that are being sold on websites.Why are you defending gensci in such a hostile manner?What studies in regard to gensci?I've already stated I've yet to see a lab report on what gensci is selling.I'd be willing to bet it's a cheap copy of gropeps LR3.Just as thier HGH is a copy of quality HGH.There is more than one reason why the FDA hasn't approved jinotropin in the USA.


EMONSTRATE GENSCI STUFF IS CRAP AND NOT IGF-1 R3 AS IT CLAIMS.

DOEMOSTRATE THAT IGF-1 R3 IS INNEFECTIVE ON HUMANS AND IS INFACT TOXIC TO HUMANS...SHOW UP OR SHUT UP BUDDY....CITE THEM....NOW....

One last time.LR3 was designed for cell cultures.Not for use in humans.There are NO studies done on humans.I did not write the e mail I posted,Gropep did.They could not furnish me with any studies done on humans,because they don't exist.And most likely will never exist.
Why are you insisting I said it's deadly in humans?I never once said that. Like many others in this thread,I posed questions in regard to LR3 and it's safe use in humans.I made no claims whatsoever on whether it's deadly or not.Safe or not.

Are you having a bad day Einstien.Did your mommy forget to give you cookies before bed last night?