"Estrogen Control, Treatment, and PCT by WARMachine"

**tallyjuice** · 03-26-2009, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by WARMachine

Id actually run more than 20mgs a day. Id say somewhere in the range of 40mgs.

Are you currently on cycle now?

Nope. Been off for a while. Delyaed onset gyno. Sux. 40mg/day until symptoms subside?

**Probably** · 03-26-2009, 09:48 PM

is a good read, thanks for the info

**flex.w** · 04-09-2009, 02:36 PM

outstanding thread!are you brazillian?

**Knockout_Power** · 04-09-2009, 03:38 PM

awesome work on this one. This will help so many people who are torn between who to listen to for PCT, poor PCT or just plain estrogen related issues.

Thanx man.

KP

**wukillabee** · 05-30-2009, 02:47 AM

Any info on Raloxifene? Such as dosage, good for on cycle gyno instead of nolva, good for pct, etc? Thanks!

**jmcamz2899** · 05-03-2009, 08:21 PM

thanks man

**TITANIUM** · 05-14-2009, 11:56 AM

Good read.There is no substitute for experience.BUMP.BUMP.BUBPITY BUMP.Thanxs Titanium

**The One** · 07-22-2009, 10:13 AM

bump

**bvfd253** · 07-24-2009, 10:22 PM

great read man! altho i natually have a low bf% i saved the entire post just incase i get gyno someday =) dont get me wrong i like boobies but just dont want 2 get turned on in the mirror!!!!!!!! hahhahaha thanks i see alot of research went into that and im sure the community has benifited from your efforts

**mikemegame** · 02-22-2012, 07:21 AM

clarify please from what i read it looks like high estrogen AND low estrogen inhibit your sex drive/ libido,and muscle mass
I have read this elsewhere and also in your post:
Estrogen Related Side Effect Prone (i say estrogen related side effect, because there are more side effects than just gyno such as, lethargy, suppressed gains, suppressed sex drive, acne, bloating etc..).

Beware that lowering estrogen with strong AI's can have a negative effect on cholesterol levels and low estrogen levels can lead to sore joints, cause your losing estrogens anti-inflammitory effect. Can also have a negative impact on your libido. Estrogen has an important role in mass building and joint health, as noted below where "estrogen" is explained.

are the normal blood levels for estradiol in men accepted by the AMA to be referenced to?.... or should we accept a higher level of estradiol when on cycle because of the balance the body naturally wishes to attain and if this is the case then what blood level would be acceptable testosterone/estradiol % ??

if high estrogen is the feedback inhibition to the pituitary then why would a low estrogen level cause loss of libido / sex drive?
i see it does not mention erectile function, is erectile function included in the side effect of lost libido or are they seperate issues?
could it be estrogen is needed for desire but not for erection?
From this list can we infer that the sole hormone responsible for erectile function is testosterone in its natural form and that restoring HPTA in regard to erectile dysfunction solely depends on the LH induced natural testosterone production. I see that you mention some individuals who desensitize their testicles to LH so much its irreversible, do these individuals have erectile dysfunction and is their erectile dysfunction restored with exogenous testosterone?
Finally I read the following:
In just 7 days of Clomid use at 100mgs ED is enough to raise LH and FSH by as much as 50%. You will need nolva also, as the point of these serms is to block estrogen receptors in the HPTA to fool it, and to tell the pituitary to start producing it's own LH and FSH. (Will find the supporting study asap.)
Did you find the supporting studies? Can nolvadex act as a estrogen receptor agonist in skeletal muscle. I have not heard of estrogen receptors in penile tissue... are there do u know of?? it would be interesting if nolvadex also acted on penile tissue inducer/inhibitor.
It is strange that tren being so highly androgenic which would imply it would be a rather good promoter of erectile function, yet ironically suppresses the hell out of it through inhibition of natural weaker endogenous androgen (testosterone), aside from its increasing the prolactins and progestins.
As you can tell by my line of questions I am concearned about this as I had E.D. for almost a year after using tren and now I shut myself down again using 200mg primobolan a week only, I am getting old 42yo now and when i was young this was never an issue but such a low dose shut me down and I not only have E.D. but I also have no sexual thoughts/desire. maybe my gear was bogus

(

**dusted411** · 01-17-2014, 06:25 PM

Awesome thread

**JiGGaMaN** · 04-05-2009, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by WARMachine

Id actually run more than 20mgs a day. Id say somewhere in the range of 40mgs.

Are you currently on cycle now?

if studies show theres a minimal difference in efficacy between 10 and 20 mg, then why go with 40mg?

**WARMachine** · 03-26-2009, 08:24 PM

I just re-read the thread. I understand that you think tamox is the preferred method of getting rid of gyno and I hope it is. As far as my friend is concerned, he started letro this past sunday and will continue to run the letro for 2 more weeks. If at this time his gyno has been reduced/eliminated then I will tell him to drop the letro (taper down) and begin the use of ralox. Hopefully between the two compounds we can wipe out his gyno. Obviously, there is a chance that his gyno will re-occur later down the road, but at this given time our main concern is reducing the existing gyno. Note: regardless, I will have him run the ralox for at least 4 weeks (in hopes to prevent estrogen rebound and gyno re-occurance).

Thanks again WAR, great thread!

Sounds like a plan bro.

Again, have him read this BEFORE his next cycle. Seeing as how is obviously sensitive to these issues, precautions need to be taken before he cycles again. Prevention is the key!

**seriousmass** · 03-26-2009, 08:46 PM

best thread i've read in a while.

Great work war.

**WARMachine** · 03-26-2009, 08:53 PM

^ Thanks bro.

Im working on getting it included in the AR Newbie Starter Pack.

Hopefully between there and the PCT stickies people will actually read it.

Til then i plan on pimping it out to anyone who will listen.

Lol.

**carl johnsen** · 03-19-2010, 07:37 AM

Originally Posted by WARMachine

^ Thanks bro.

Im working on getting it included in the AR Newbie Starter Pack.

Hopefully between there and the PCT stickies people will actually read it.

Til then i plan on pimping it out to anyone who will listen.

Lol.

can u tell me what is "Dexamethasone" because i can't find it in the steroid profile. what is for, amount we should take because i saw 1 tab only contains 0.02mg.

thanks...

**Sincity_666** · 08-24-2010, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by WARMachine

^ Thanks bro.

Im working on getting it included in the AR Newbie Starter Pack.

Hopefully between there and the PCT stickies people will actually read it.

Til then i plan on pimping it out to anyone who will listen.

Lol.

Thanks for this post! It has really educated me. Question though for you war machine:
I plan on running 10weeks of test At 250mgs twice a week. I have a limited supply of provironum which I read on above. I have enough to run 7 weeks of 25mgs a day. I plan on running dbol for the first 4-6 weeks at 20mgs Ed. If this is my first cycle would it be a good idea to run as follows?

Week 1-6
test e 500mgs/week (250mgs twice a week)
Dianabol 20mgs ED
Provironum 25mgs ED

Week 7-10
Test 500mgs/week (same)
Stop dbol
Provironum 25mgs Ed runs out week 8

Week 12-16
Run Nolvadex and clomid
Nolva 40/40/20/20 ED
Clomid 100/50/50/50 ED

So will this work well? Is running provironum with only limited supply going to be negative? If Gyno starts will nolva do the job or will I need an AI to stop it or reverse it ? Would you run the provironum different? I have 50 25mg tabs.
I read you entire post and lots others, but still am a little unsure how to be safe. Please help and thanks for all the info, finally a complete read and nothing that contradicts things I have read off this site! Great job!

**seriousmass** · 03-26-2009, 09:03 PM

Yah it should definitely be up there in the stickeys

You should talk to Phate too, I'm sure he'd add this to the Link Database, if it's not already there.

**peachfuzz** · 03-26-2009, 09:04 PM

Nice revisions WAR.

cant wait to see what you put together for HCG use. so many different protocols id really like to get to the bottom of it. let me know if i can help you out at all as well.

**WARMachine** · 03-26-2009, 09:10 PM

^ Im willing to bet you can bro.

Believe me, ill be talking to you.

You should talk to Phate too, I'm sure he'd add this to the Link Database, if it's not already there.

Yeah i already had it added.

Again, i apperciate it bro!

**Mammon** · 03-26-2009, 09:43 PM

yep.. sometimes ill even run it higher

**WARMachine** · 03-26-2009, 09:47 PM

Yeah that would be fine bro.

Mammon likes to run between 40-60mgs right?

**Mammon** · 03-26-2009, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by WARMachine

Yeah that would be fine bro.

Mammon likes to run between 40-60mgs right?

yes sir..

**mrdieselone** · 03-26-2009, 09:50 PM

awesome thread brother

**johnnybigguns** · 03-26-2009, 11:12 PM

Dam good read.
Bump for you.
I think this should be a sticky, it's a very common topic it seems.

**WARMachine** · 03-26-2009, 11:16 PM

Working on your suggestion as we speak.

Admin and the rest of the staff is currently reviewing it to be added in the Newbie Starter Pack and possibly its own sticky.

**Mammon** · 03-27-2009, 01:23 PM

yep...

**WARMachine** · 03-28-2009, 02:32 AM

seeing a lot of threads out there! This one will answer most questions!!!

**Probably** · 03-28-2009, 03:05 AM

why isnt this thread sticked yet ? or in educational threads?

**WARMachine** · 03-28-2009, 03:09 AM

Im working on it.

Been discussing it with staff and Admin. Unfortunatly, im not sure when or if its gonna happen.

But response from staff is positive, so im optimistic.

**peachfuzz** · 03-29-2009, 02:10 PM

War are you ready to tackle "progesterone gyno?" i think it would be a nice addition.

**Mammon** · 03-30-2009, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by peachfuzz

War are you ready to tackle "progesterone gyno?" i think it would be a nice addition.

control estrogen.. done... lol

**Ernst** · 03-30-2009, 06:13 PM

Bump

**1down5up** · 03-30-2009, 11:53 PM

Bump for some good info!!

**WARMachine** · 03-31-2009, 02:40 AM

War are you ready to tackle "progesterone gyno?" i think it would be a nice addition.

Oh yeah i think im ready.

Sorry about the delay on the updates guys, ive been very busy this last week, and likely will be again this week. But ill do my best to get as much in as possible!

Thanks!

-WAR

**murphylee** · 03-31-2009, 12:52 PM

Is it possible to just up an AI dose to reduce ERSE symptoms? Or is a SERM absolutely necessary?

**Mammon** · 03-31-2009, 12:59 PM

personally whether im running an AI or not if symptoms show up i want to block the estrogen from binding to the receptors NOW... so id start the nolvadex.

**murphylee** · 03-31-2009, 01:24 PM

alright, I'm going to do that. And how do I run the nolva through the rest of the cycle...and into PCT?

**Mammon** · 03-31-2009, 01:27 PM

well i run 40-60mg (40mg will probably be fine) until symptoms subside.then 20mg through remainder of cycle and pct.

**murphylee** · 03-31-2009, 01:46 PM

so just straight through?

Thread: "Estrogen Control, Treatment, and PCT by WARMachine"

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great!!

...

Raloxifene?

Excellent:

clarify high and low estrogen both cause diminished libido? and or E.D.??

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