Police Officer Shatters Student's Car Window

[Metalject]

Correct, however a part from being generally annoying she was being noncompliant. Some will say she has no legal obligation to roll the window down but it was a simple request and she was being belligerent. Perhaps he (the officer) could have handled the situation differently and who knows, this particular officer may be reprimanded or punished for his action. Many will assume he won't, but we don't know the aftermath of this confrontation.

For me, it's more about respect. Call it old fashioned but when an officer is asking you for a reasonable response or action, just do it for Christ sake. Are cops perfect? Of course not. I've yet to meet anyone who is with the exception of arrogant fools who think they are infallible. The officer made a simple request at a traffic stop and there were other officers on the scene. If she had simply complied, the outcome surely would have been different. WTF did she honestly expect!?! She was being uncooperative for no reason. Ok, perhaps the officer didn't clearly state the reason she was stopped and he could have been more forthcoming but many of the cop haters and bashers simply have an axe to grind and have never had to put themselves in an officer's position. Sure, there are cops who abuse their position, but show me an industry or a job where someone doesn't abuse their authority. One bad person doesn't make the entire industry corrupt but unfortunately the cases where cops over step their boundaries become so damn sensationalized that the fallacy that all cops are bad is pandemic.

I'm fairly certain the majority of people watching this video are thinking, "just roll down the f-ing window!!!!!!" I feel no empathy for her. A simple request was made. She could have been cooperative and the whole thing would have ended quickly without incident in the majority of cases.

There is no way I feel she was in the right - and that does not imply I feel the cop was right either - but a little more cooperation would have prevented the situation for escalating.

On the basis of simply avoiding a bunch of drama and trying to be cooperative, yes she should have rolled down her window. Was she doing anything illegal? No, but it still would have been a little easier to role the window down. I agree, but there was also no reason for the officer to break her window. There's no law that says the officer has the right to destroy your property just because you're getting on his nerves.

[Metalject]

You really have to parse the video at different moments. While its true that there is no specific law on the books stating that you have to roll your window down all the way, the courts have traditionally given the officers a wide degree of latitude during detentions for the purpose of officer safety. What complicates the matter with the window in this case, is that we are talking about a case in a state where the suspect is required to sign the ticket, this is not the case in other states. For this reason, the officer felt he could order the window be rolled all the way down. While technically not a law, we always say "You argue cases in a courtroom not on the side of the road." This means, that you should always obey ANY lawful orders from a police officer, even if they are not in fact per say 'lawful,' or are not based on any specific law. There is always much less to gain from disobeying an order, and had there not been video from the officer, she would likely be facing many more fabricated charges.

So here is where we need to examine the video.

I. Within her rights to refuse rolling down the window, as it is not a law.

II. Officer asks her to step out of the vehicle. He can ask the occupant to exit the vehicle under a ruling similar to Terry v. Ohio, where the officer is permitted to perform an open palm pat down of the outside of a suspects clothing for the purpose of officer safety. During a motor vehicle stop he can order the occupant from the vehicle for his safety. At the point that she disobeyed this lawful order, she was breaking the law.

III. He broke the window not because she refused to roll it down, but rather because he ordered her to exit the vehicle and she refused. He actually showed in my opinion, a great deal of restraint in not breaking the window and ripping her from the vehicle MUCH EARLIER.

IV. She was being 'detained,' the entire time that she was stopped. You cannot refuse to exit the vehicle when its a lawful order, she was not asked. It became an arrestable offense at the point which she obstructed the official duties of a law enforcement officer. It was not however resisting arrest, as the law is quite clear, for someone to be under arrest the officer must utter the words "YOU'RE UNDER ARREST," and without that, a person cannot be charged with resisting arrest, as they cannot possibly be aware that the officer is attempting to arrest them.

Overall, this chick handled this encounter very poorly, and the officer handled it rather well. Anyone who knows me, knows that I usually give much more deference to the citizen over the officer, but in this case, she was wrong for disobeying a lawful order, but it had NOTHING to do with rolling her window down or not.

Can the officer tell you to get out of your car without giving a specific reason?

[austinite]

forget this thread..........

[ppwc1985]

^^^^ common sense, respect something ppl have forgotten about in America.

[austinite]

^^^^ common sense, respect something ppl have forgotten about in America.

huh?

[Java Man]

Metal, I wasn't really directing my whole post @ you. The chip comment yes. The rest is just making a point that people take one side or the other all the time with things like this but very few of them have the po's perspective because they have not worn those shoes. How can one have a strong opinion about anything when they only have the perspective of one side of an argument?

No I have not had the experiences you have had with LE. Yes I have gotten tickets I didn't deserve but that's about the extent of it. I've never dealt with an unreasonable or abusive po.. Honestly the best thing to do is cooperate and take names and note the badge numbers. Both are clearly visible on the front of a uniform. A police officer must give their badge number and identify themselves if asked. when they leave you can plan your strategy but never fight the police. You will always lose in the moment they are on scene. They can't just leave and they have a lot of discretionary latitude at that moment. They do get reprimanded believe it or not. You have to take it through proper processes though and prepare your case against them with facts that can't be disputed. Remember, everything they do is recorded via the dispatcher and these days its often video'd by the officers themselves. I knew a lot of really.good cops, really good people who wanted to.be fair and help others. I only knew a few that had issues. Most don't.




rm.

[ppwc1985]

Was meaning what muscleink said, MJ if that really happen all you had to do was file a complaint, 95% of po are good ppl just trying to do their job. They don't usually hand out search warrants for nothing. And sorry that happen to you man.

[Java Man]

Can the officer tell you to get out of your car without giving a specific reason?

'Youre acting suspicious' is good enough to get it started. She had already snagged his fingers in the window by closing it on his hand I think at that point. These things have a way of escalating and somewhere in there it swings in the officers favor. Based on the original reason for the stop, she had no reason to act so belligerent. Been drinking maybe? Step out of the car please. I'm detaining you on suspicion of being under the influence of something mind altering based on your reaction to my stop. Not going to comply? Ok that was a lawful order. Now youre under arrest.

Fact is if the officer wants you out of the car there are ways to make it happen. Once he says that youre to step out it will happen. He's already worked out the justification for it even if he hadn't told the perp yet. He can't undo that statement. What's he going to say? Ok just kidding. Youre not really under arrest. You can go. ? No. he'll win.

[Metalject]

Metal, I wasn't really directing my whole post @ you. The chip comment yes. The rest is just making a point that people take one side or the other all the time with things like this but very few of them have the po's perspective because they have not worn those shoes. How can one have a strong opinion about anything when they only have the perspective of one side of an argument?

No I have not had the experiences you have had with LE. Yes I have gotten tickets I didn't deserve but that's about the extent of it. I've never dealt with an unreasonable or abusive po.. Honestly the best thing to do is cooperate and take names and note the badge numbers. Both are clearly visible on the front of a uniform. A police officer must give their badge number and identify themselves if asked. when they leave you can plan your strategy but never fight the police. You will always lose in the moment they are on scene. They can't just leave and they have a lot of discretionary latitude at that moment. They do get reprimanded believe it or not. You have to take it through proper processes though and prepare your case against them with facts that can't be disputed. Remember, everything they do is recorded via the dispatcher and these days its often video'd by the officers themselves. I knew a lot of really.good cops, really good people who wanted to.be fair and help others. I only knew a few that had issues. Most don't.




rm.

My biggest thing, I just want to be left alone. I'm a pretty normal guy for the most part. What I mean is I'm not out smoking crack, stealing from people or doing anything that's causing any harm to anyone, but yet for some reason these annoying situations have popped up a few too many times. Even in the situation where the cops sniffed my girlfriends panties I remained silent and didn't argue. Do you have any idea how hard that was to just sit there and take that?

A little side story...many years back when I was still bodybuilding, a police officer who worked out in the same gym as I did told me something very strange. Keep in mind, I'm a guy with no record, no felonies, misdemeanors, nothing. We were making small talk and he asked about a video shoot he had seen some of us do a few months prior and was asking what it was for. Long story short, he informed me that most of the cops that worked out in that gym hated my guts and had for years. Funny thing, he's the only cop I knew in that gym or at least the only one that I knew was a police officer. That and all the other things I've mentioned, they add up and they simply stick with you.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think all cops are bad people. I'd say most of them are more than likely regular guys just going to work like everyone else. And maybe there are just as many bad apples in every other profession but if you're going to be a police officer there is a higher standard you have to hold to. There isn't room for bad apples and when you prove you're one a reprimand isn't enough. While you're intended to serve, not rule, you have been given some authority over others (to a degree) and any abuse of that in any circumstance should in my opinion be a fireable offense.

[thegodfather]

Can the officer tell you to get out of your car without giving a specific reason?

Yes, the reason is that the officer wants to remove you from the vehicle and control you for his safety. He doesn't know whether you may have a weapon under the seat, if you will put the car into gear and try to run him over, or any number of other possible scenarios. Officers say, "step out of the vehicle," they don't say "Step out of the vehicle because x, y, z." But they may add the caveat "for my safety and yours," to their lawful order. Regardless, the courts give them a fair amount of latitude when it comes to securing a suspect for their safety. You may also be placed in handcuffs during a motor vehicle stop, without any reasonable suspicion or probable cause, simply for the purpose of controlling your movements and officer safety, you're being detained at that point for further investigation. However, if there is no reasonable suspicion of any other crimes being committed (other than a traffic violation), the courts have held that a motor vehicle stop be disposed of in a reasonable amount of time, usually under 30 minutes.

[Metalject]

Yes, the reason is that the officer wants to remove you from the vehicle and control you for his safety. He doesn't know whether you may have a weapon under the seat, if you will put the car into gear and try to run him over, or any number of other possible scenarios. Officers say, "step out of the vehicle," they don't say "Step out of the vehicle because x, y, z." But they may add the caveat "for my safety and yours," to their lawful order. Regardless, the courts give them a fair amount of latitude when it comes to securing a suspect for their safety. You may also be placed in handcuffs during a motor vehicle stop, without any reasonable suspicion or probable cause, simply for the purpose of controlling your movements and officer safety, you're being detained at that point for further investigation. However, if there is no reasonable suspicion of any other crimes being committed (other than a traffic violation), the courts have held that a motor vehicle stop be disposed of in a reasonable amount of time, usually under 30 minutes.

Call me crazy, but if that's the case it would seem an officer could tell you to exist the vehicle and handcuff you and just make up a claim for reasonable suspicion and in court he'd probably win every time. After all, it's your word against his.

[thegodfather]

No, in court he would have to ARTICULATE why a reasonable person would believe there was further evidence of a crime. What did he witness inside your vehicle that led him to believe there a crime was being committed? Stems? Paraphernalia? Weapons? The odor of marijuana? Empty beer cans? Did you give him a story and then later give him a different story(Which is why I advise everyone to give license,insurance,&registration and then RESPECTFULLY decline to answer any and all questions beyond that). So, an officer in theory could lie and say they smelled the odor of marijuana, but they had better be able to substantiate those claims with something more solid after that, like a K9 alerting to the presence of drugs, a positive UDS, or some other solid evidence.

[Java Man]

Prey cool discussion. A citizen who had been unreasonably abused by law enforcement, an attorney, and a former cop. Lol.

MJ: it sounds to me like maybe you we're being picked on. If there's more tham one bad apple nvolved and they get it in their minds that it would be fun to harass you it wouldn't be the first time that has happened and very hard to prove. Everyone would think you were missing a few cards from the deck unless you had real indisputable proof. I used to work dispatch sometimes when we didn't have any non sworn personnel to cover it. I could have looked up anyone I wanted to. These days all the field officers have laptops in their cars. . I imagine they can all look up petty much anything without ringing any bells unless a complaint gets investigated and ia starts looking at specific dates and times recorded by that officers laptop in his unit. If all of the cops in your gym hated you.. IDK.

[Java Man]

Call me crazy, but if that's the case it would seem an officer could tell you to exist the vehicle and handcuff you and just make up a claim for reasonable suspicion and in court he'd probably win every time. After all, it's your word against his.

Yes. Pretty much.

[Java Man]

Well, I should qualify that. They can't just make something up but if the officer has half a brain they will be covering their ass in court before you see them get out of their car. I Always operated as if every stop would be before a judge eventually. I didn't say or do anything I couldn't justify in court. So if I told you to turn around and put your hands behind your head with your fingers interlocked because I was cuffing you, I already had my report written in my mind as to what led up to that and why. In this case, I would have broken this girls window sooner. As soon as my fingers got smashed, I would have helped her get out of the car. No I didn't get fired lol. I resigned.

[Lunk1]

While this most likely is state by state, being stopped (detained) for a traffic violation of ANY sort is considered a form of custodial arrest. The officer has discretion to give a warning (verbal or written), issue a citation in lieu of arrest or take you into custody.

Because you have violated the law, you are not free to go and do have certain "responsibilities" that you must comply with.

@Godfather, can you provide case law that states an officer MUST say the words "under arrest"? Perhaps I need to brush up, admittedly it's been awhile. I would argue that the law is clear that "arrest" is anytime you have commited a violation and are NOT free to go.

[Bert]

He should have just handed her the form when she put her hand out and it would have been over.

[austinite]

forget this thread..........

[Lunk1]

I should watch the video

[austinite]

forget this thread..........

[austinite]

forget this thread..........

[austinite]

forget this thread..........

[Fcastle357]

Here's a filthy RAPIST cop... Probably won't find fault with him either...

YouTube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytUl2Ie4E8Y

Not only a rapist cop but the judge just sits there and watches. Makes me wonder if she was a abused by the officer.

[Fcastle357]

COCKSVCKER with an attitude fvcing with open carry broads... IDIOT doesnt consider a passport an ID. Better than a god damn drivers license, you uneducated punk...

YouTube Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVHrpScqHsg

Looks like you had a nice five hours of sleep. Austinite.

[austinite]

forget this thread..........

[Lunk1]

I'm sure these guys appreciate the officers friendly demeanor

[austinite]

forget this thread..........

[austinite]

These fvcking threads....... My blood pressure is through the roof now.

[kronik420]

Yup. once an officer announces that you're being detained, it's over. Fighting that will get you nowhere real fast.

this one time i managed to get away

[austinite]

this one time i managed to get away

in band camp??

[Fcastle357]

These fvcking threads....... My blood pressure is through the roof now.

You know I don't think anyone noticed. You seem very tranquil. Maybe a trip down to the local station and a little one on one time with some officers would help the healing.

[austinite]

You know I don't think anyone noticed. You seem very tranquil. Maybe a trip down to the local station and a little one on one time with some officers would help the healing.

naa. I have several friends that work there. Wouldn't be fun. lol

[Fcastle357]

naa. I have several friends that work there. Wouldn't be fun. lol

Lol well then let me suggest you visit the Australia thread and visit euro. I started that thread just for him. I'm sure he would live a visit.

[austinite]

Lol well then let me suggest you visit the Australia thread and visit euro. I started that thread just for him. I'm sure he would live a visit.

I'll cut my wrist first.

[Fcastle357]

I'll cut my wrist first.

Lol. Garbage can

[austinite]

Lol. Garbage can

lmfao. You liked that, huh?

Oscar the grouch.

[kronik420]

If you're directing that comment at me (maybe you're not, I don't know) but the answer would be yes, maybe a little. I've been harassed by police officers more times than I care to count my entire adult life. Do I ever argue or make things more difficult than they have to be? No, I don't. If I'm pulled over my window's rolled all the way down before the officer gets to my door with my drivers license in hand.

Have you ever been pulled over and told to wait in your car while a half dozen more cop cars showed up and they made you stay in your car for three hours, never told you why and then finally told said you could go? Ever had that happen twice and never knew why?

Have you ever had an officer threaten to arrest you because you answered his question but didn't say "Yes sir" when you answered it? Not because you were being disrespectful, but you simply said yes.

Have you ever been pulled over for not wearing your seatbelt and given a ticket even though you were clearly wearing your seatbelt?

Have you ever had officers show up at your house with a warrant on a basis that held no ground whatsoever and had them trash your house like a tornado went through it, break numerous valuables, dump your eggs all over the floor, break pictures on the wall, find your girlfriends lingerie and panties and start playing with them, pulling out pictures of your girlfriend and talk about how much they want to **** her while you're sitting handcuffed on your couch? And then when it's all said and done and there was no reason for all that garbage to happen, not only is there no apology but your house is still destroyed, even your bed is broken in half and you've had a dozen plus men drooling over your fiancés pictures and one even jokingly put her panties up to his nose.

Yes, I have a chip on my shoulder.

have you ever had your hands cuffed behind your back, then your ankles cuffed, and then have the 2 cuffs cuffed together and then beaten with the baton?

i will either kill or be killed before i let another pig arrest me again...

[Fcastle357]

have you ever had your hands cuffed behind your back, then your ankles cuffed, and then have the 2 cuffs cuffed together and then beaten with the baton?

i will either kill or be killed before i let another pig arrest me again...

Only by dsm.

[kronik420]

in band camp??

[austinite]

forget this thread..........