Is Testosterone King?

[austinite]

I am no vet of taking the substances. My two cents is anything that is less estrogen production is better. Testosterone is tasty but the big E is the only complication with steroids I seem to have. The thing about that is it is the same issue EVERYONE has. That plus the HPTA thing but that is neither here or there..you are going to shut down HPTA.

My math says you can do 800 NPP, 400 Tren, 200 Test 100 anavar for the same E hit as 400 Test.

400 test vs 200 test, 800 NPP, 400 Tren, 100 Anavar....... No competition. So far on this cycle just mentioned I have met every EVERY expected LBM and fat loss expectation in a month that I would have had for a 20 week cycle of 400-600 test.

Test might be for you and you might say it is the best thing since sliced bread. For me AIs required for a 500 test cycle make me feel like crap.

huh? This confused me. E2 management is the easiest thing on earth. What issues do you have with E2? I'm probably misunderstanding but I can't seem to make out what you're trying to say with that comparison.

[Chicagotarsier]

As said....

ESTROGEN is the major negative of taking steroids.

Testosterone converts to estrogen at a very high rate when compared to other compounds.

You can take a lot more of other substances, take less of an estrogen hit, and get a butt-ton more results.

If I read that right you just compared results of stacking 4 different compounds totalling over 1.5grams a week of gear to 400mg of test a week...... what on earth are you talking about?

[austinite]

As said....

ESTROGEN is the major negative of taking steroids.

Testosterone converts to estrogen at a very high rate when compared to other compounds.

You can take a lot more of other substances, take less of an estrogen hit, and get a butt-ton more results.

Yeah I still don't get it. You think nearly a gram of NPP won't impact your e2 levels at all? If anything, that cycle comparison is a recipe for gynecomastia.

Really strange, Chicago. I like a lot of your posts, but this one threw me for a loop.

[Chicagotarsier]

E2 can lead to gyno
E2 can lead to bloat
E2 can lead to lethatgic attitude

E2 basically is the gate keeper for 90% of all bad things associated with steroids. How do you control E2? With AI. What is AI? Cancer medication. AIs are far more harsh on the system than most steroids when you read the clinical trials of Adex and such. SERMS were the way to handle the issues with E2 for a very long time then someone said..Hey..these cancer meds reduce E2!! Let's take these! So my issue with E2 is

1. AIs in general being sold as "just an estrogen reducer"
2. The whole concept of controlling E2 pre AIs pre-Testosterone (Taking non-converting compounds) just being tossed out the window and a blanket "Testosterone is AWESOME" being put out there.

After reading the research on Adex I felt like I did after watching the Shining in the theater the first time lol. How it works and what it does other than lower E2 is not covered in any detail in pretty much any conversation or posts. HOW to use it is but the nuts and bolts not so much.

huh? This confused me. E2 management is the easiest thing on earth. What issues do you have with E2? I'm probably misunderstanding but I can't seem to make out what you're trying to say with that comparison.

[Chicagotarsier]

On 200 test vs 700 NPP 400 tren and 200 test and 100 anavar my E2 was 5% higher. Tren does not convert. Deca at 10-20% of test conversion. Anavar seems to have none if any conversion.

So a basic conversion would be

You can take 1000 NPP or 200 Test and get the same E2 hit.

This was the core of Golden Age lifter usage of substances. Why Primo (a weaker substance) was used by so many at such high doses at that time...little to no conversion.

I realize my thoughts are against current mantra.

[austinite]

Alright that's enough man. Where are you getting this information from? When was the last time someone was harmed from E2 management drugs? The worst we've seen is crushing E2 levels, which comes with side effects but it is what it is. So your cholestrol got thrown off or your liver enzymes were elevated. So what. What has an AI done to a male that I seem to be unaware or?

Saying it's "Cancer Medication" is no different than some media focusing on steroids rather than the real issues. It makes no sense. What does a drug that is cancer related have to do with anything.

Aromatase inhibitors have been used and prescribed by some of the most impactful and industry-changing physicians.

So you're against SERM and AI therapy. How do you manage e2?

This is borderline crazy, seriously no offense, but it's just crazy. It's like saying there will never ever be a multi-purpose drug that is worthwhile. Seem crazy?

[The Deadlifting Dog]

Chicago,

Maybe you wouldn't have such a hard time controlling estrogen if your bodyfat wasn't 42%.

[MuscleInk]

E2 can lead to gyno
E2 can lead to bloat
E2 can lead to lethatgic attitude

E2 basically is the gate keeper for 90% of all bad things associated with steroids. How do you control E2? With AI. What is AI? Cancer medication. AIs are far more harsh on the system than most steroids when you read the clinical trials of Adex and such. SERMS were the way to handle the issues with E2 for a very long time then someone said..Hey..these cancer meds reduce E2!! Let's take these! So my issue with E2 is

1. AIs in general being sold as "just an estrogen reducer"
2. The whole concept of controlling E2 pre AIs pre-Testosterone (Taking non-converting compounds) just being tossed out the window and a blanket "Testosterone is AWESOME" being put out there.

After reading the research on Adex I felt like I did after watching the Shining in the theater the first time lol. How it works and what it does other than lower E2 is not covered in any detail in pretty much any conversation or posts. HOW to use it is but the nuts and bolts not so much.

If you're going to call an AI strictly a cancer medication then the same would apply to resveratrol, zinc, vitamin E, catechins, and any thing that inhibits tyrosine kinase, insulin growth factors, and angiogenesis - all important pathways for regulating mutagenesis and apoptosis in neoplasias.

[lovbyts]

On 200 test vs 700 NPP 400 tren and 200 test and 100 anavar my E2 was 5% higher. Tren does not convert. Deca at 10-20% of test conversion. Anavar seems to have none if any conversion.

So a basic conversion would be

You can take 1000 NPP or 200 Test and get the same E2 hit.

This was the core of Golden Age lifter usage of substances. Why Primo (a weaker substance) was used by so many at such high doses at that time...little to no conversion.

I realize my thoughts are against current mantra.

That may be true for you and I hope you are checking blood work but it's FAR from the case for me. Even on TRT my E2 runs high. On cycle 2x mine Sensitive Estradiol was 379 range 3-70 and free test was only 53 range 7.2-24.
Another time my Sensitive Estradiol was 295 and Free test was 34.

Obviously not everyone is the same and the only way to know is by testing blood work. I had no physical sides that I noticed.

Remember most RX have more than one treatment and most all effect more than one symptom or side effect. Cialis was created to treat blood pressure but had a more marketable side effect.

[Roger11]

Ok guys, **** think im one step away from doing it.

Girlfriend rings me up after she finished gym with her mate, and told me a story about how an asian guy was being seedy and trying to get girls to train with him and stuff. Tells me he had massive quads and she was super jealous of them, (**** me, one thing i lag is massive quads because i have shin splits). Got me angry, because 1, she never ever stares at my physuqie, naked etc, in clothes or anything. Currently atm im on

750 deca
600 eq
measly 250 test lol. Thinking of now going up to a gram to 1250, with 10mg tamox per day and 1mg arimidex per day. Time to go all out pro.

[lovbyts]

So you are ready for the 3 some with Asian girls?

[Roger11]

So you are ready for the 3 some with Asian girls?

decided against it actually lol
a mate messaged me saying

Massive compared to what? The guy might have been 5'5.

I don't think jacking your test dosage up 5-fold, on top of the other compounds, is going to bring your physique to you any faster. I can understand the feeling of imminence and the urge to act immediately, but its times like this we gotta keep our egos in check, because that is what is happening. But we've all done it, and probably still do it. I know I do. "Massive egos never built massive bodies." ... a quote I read on Suppversity that I always remember when I'm feeling frustrated. You're letting your perceived insecurities (whether based on something imagined or real - I don't know you personally) get the better of you. I've been down this path of destructive thought at least 4 times in the past 12 months and it just turns gym time into a compulsive, brutal mission, rather than something I enjoy.

Give it a few days. Things will settle into perspective soon enough and you can take a step back and gauge your options.