Who Could never trust a politician?? Shit, all they know how to do is lie! And answer your question with another question or totally turn it around! FFS!Originally Posted by bass
VET
Who Could never trust a politician?? Shit, all they know how to do is lie! And answer your question with another question or totally turn it around! FFS!
Member
Hazard's links are what people who understand debate will notice as a red herring. We're not arguing Obama's popularity; I'm asking for evidence re:
"You understand what they are going for with the mental health issues part don't you?
ANYONE who has ever had a prescription for an anti depressant or has been to a counselor for depression would automatically be denied a gun permit and eventually those who have one already it would be revoked.
This would also include anyone suffering from PTSD"
That's all. Whenever I asked for evidence, the argument got shifted to me drinking the KoolAid. When did I say I love or believe Obama? Is it a safe assumption that because I use sound logic based on evidence that I "drink the KoolAid?" These are very weak tactics people use when they have no evidence. I asked a simple question: Do you have evidence? All you've shown is that--at best--you have concern for this. (when I said you (lovbyts) only have "fear," what I should have said is "concern." I apologize, I wasn't implying that you were quaking in your boots.) I get it, you guys have zero faith in Obama; again, that's not the argument.
Lovbyts, you made your claim about the mental health issue and being able to restrict gun purchases. I ask you again, is this a concern of yours or is this a fact?
Knowledgeable Member
There is no way to prove it except to wait and see if congress lets him implement it and what happens. It wont happen all at once but depending on who is the next president it will be phased in more and more in a couple of years. They arent stupid and try to make BIG moves because they know people will react.
Look at what happened here in Washington state. The sheep finally voted to let a measure for gun control go through that CLAIMED all it would do is close the loop holes for the said gun show sales. Less than 24hrs after it passing it was let known that it is now illegal to even hand your gun to someone else to use even your spouse. Yes and YOU can easily check. The police say they are not going to enforce this because there was over 1000 people on the steps to our capital building the next day passing their guns back and forth. Still, its on the books and can be imposed at any time. This is how it all works.
Look at the Iran deal, Most people said it was bad and more so Obama would not back up any of his claims to be tough on them if they did not comply. Why did people say this? Because of he WEAK stance with all of our enemies. What's happening right now? Iran has threatening to attack Saudi Arabia and fired some missiles the other day which is a direct violation to the treaty. Obama made some noise (empty threats) about sanctions and Iran pushed back. Obama already said he would NOT push for sanctions now. WTF? Actually, none of us with our eyes open are surprised.
Obama Reneges Again: Fails to Hold Iran Accountable for Ballistic Missile Tests | The Fiscal Times
Last edited by lovbyts; 01-05-2016 at 06:37 PM.
Knowledgeable Member
Actually Bass is right on track because when the government gets too powerful/over reaching and starts to infringe on people rights it's the people duty to stand up against and take action if/when they wont listen comply. THEY are supposed to work for us. This is part of the reason for the 2nd amendment and why they really dont want us to have/bear arm. I'm sure Bass does not want this to happen anymore than I or most people but without the threat or possibility of it happening things will get out of hand a lot quicker.
Yeah I'm sure you want Proof again, right? again look at history. Cambodia, China, Turkey, USSR, Germany and more. Check it out, it's easy to fine. Sorry no spoon feeding anymore. You can also easily find that every state with the strictest gun laws also have the highest crime rates. Oh and feel free to try to use Australia as an example of how gun control, disarming the population does work because I do have plenty of good facts and links that explain the truth about that myth.
Some of us have traveled and see how it works in other countries. Some of us have been or are in countries that still repress their population and can easily see the path we are headed down because they have seen it all happen before. People are letting government control to much of their lives making us dependent on them in the ruse that it's for our best interest and safety.
Knowledgeable Member
The problems in America, whatever they might be, take your pick, all boil down to one primary issue, voting!
Of the total voting population, only 61% are registered to vote.
Of those registered to vote, only 40-50% vote in presidential elections.
Of those registered to vote, only 20-40% vote in mid-term elections.
Of those registered to vote, only 10-20% (sometimes less) vote in local or state elections. In many major cities the mayor is elected by 1% of the voting public.
Of those registered to vote, approximately 20% identify as leaning liberal.
Of those registered to vote, approximately 40% identify as leaning conservative.
The above leads to some very basic conclusions:
1. Liberals vote in larger numbers than conservatives despite being heavily outnumbered.
2. Nearly half the country has no opinion and of those in this category that vote most don't.
3. The problem is the American people not voting, that's the primary fact. The resulting problem, numerous people say their vote doesn't matter, they're only one person. Now multiply that by millions who think that way and lo and behold you have your problem.
Member
I agree with your sentiment. What is the source of your stats?
Member
Thank you for taking the time to elaborate, seriously.
You've answered my question; you have a concern, not a fact. I'm not saying that it is an invalid concern, just that it is a concern, not a fact. Too often we state our opinions and our fears as facts when they are not facts.
Also, just because I disagree and I think your argument is flimsy, does not mean that you have any idea what I believe (example: praising Obama for the stock market, citing Australia as an argument for disarming citizens). You shouldn't make conclusions so hastily.
Associate Member
Meanwhile in north korea ....
North Korea says it has conducted hydrogen bomb test - CNN.com
"ARs Pork Eating Crusader"
Hey love mate i saw this and thought of you
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-C_x5JmHa7E
"ARs Pork Eating Crusader"
Hey mate as a local i can tell you stats can be taken out of context quite easily. Random gun violence against civilans is close to 0. Gun use is mostly organised crime elements conducting business. As long as civilians are not hurt then there is no harm.
Knowledgeable Member
Statistic brain
Demos
Pew
Gallup
Associate Member
Gun violence is down by violent crime is up, just like in britain or london i forget which
VET
I fvkin can't stand this asshole... Very scary - and doesn't give a sh!t!
The Earthquake even rattled in China(now they're pissed too) it's a shitstorm waiting to happen... I hope im wrong but...
Associate Member
Yeah there is supposed to be an emergency UN meeting some time today between us and china
VET
Saw that as well! Crazy bastads... however, NK will blame it on us like they have in the past...
Knowledgeable Member
Yep, big fat mess, but just another log on the insanity fire that's brewing world wide. In my opinion, anyone that thinks everything is hunky dory in the world right now and not on the verge of WWIII is absolutely insane. N Korea is far from the primary factor in this but they are an irritation and a dangerous one that will act up more and more as stability waivers in the rest of the world.
Pissing Excellence!
North Korea is similar to herpes
Member
"At no point yesterday did any Republican candidates or lawmakers point to anything specific in the president’s policy that they found objectionable. Not one measure, not one idea, not one initiative, not one paragraph, nothing."
It's really easy to make something sound bad without presenting a shred of evidence.
The missing piece from the GOP's anti-Obama pitch on guns | MSNBC
VET
I agree 100%... I, too, have been saying the same for yrs now... And it's just getting worse and worse, with more countries going against the USA... However, we've bullied our way to the top with the very same tactics in the past... Which obviously doesn't help... It's a total cluster**** and if this doesn't get under control(UN etc) than, Metal, your absolutely right in it could very well be the start of WWIII... I just don't see how many people are actually blind to this mess!
Associate Member
I had a dream that the whole USA got nuked. I ended up just chilling in my half-destroyed basement with some family and friends drinking my stock of beer.
It was pretty awesome. I say - bring it on.
HRT Specialist ~ Knowledgeable Member
this is what happens when America is lead by a *****, the world falls apart. i am afraid you are correct we on the verge of WWIII, in fact i believe it already started.
Pissing Excellence!
this is what kind of stuff i am 'concerned' about when bills get pushed by one person!
Are Climate Skeptics Too ‘Mentally Ill’ to Buy Guns Under Obama’s New Rules? | MRCTV
Associate Member
I'm completely anti-obama... don't get me wrong.
but that article is just painfully stupid.
Knowledgeable Member
The objection is the president creating law/legislation. That's not a power granted to the president. The president's job is to execute legislation passed by congress. He can implement actions to help the legislation run more effectively, but he can't create legislation. That's where executive orders often fail or succeed and that will be the argument here. Obama's argument before the court will be based on enforcing already existing gun control legislation, making sure it's effective. The opposition will argue that he's gone beyond that and created legislation. Because of the health record aspect, this is where the opposition will have its strongest stance as that will point to changing of the law.
Long and short, when it comes to an executive order, whether the order is comprised of good or bad things, the president is not allowed to change, rewrite or create legislation. When it comes to legislation, he can propose and influence congress, advise and direct and then implement what they pass.
Associate Member
Stock Market Data - Dow Jones, Nasdaq, S&P 500 - CNNMoney
You know when things arnt going well when apple says theye gonna cut back production on their phones
Knowledgeable Member
I don't see the U.S. as bullying. We've made mistakes like any country has but I don't see it as we've bullied our way to the top.
As far as the UN, it doesn't have any actual power in these types of things, and in my opinion, is more of a burden to the U.S. than not. However, perhaps not as dangerous of a burden as NATO may be becoming.
But I do agree, WWIII is almost inevitable at this point.
1. Saudia Arabia & Iran are on the verge of war: The U.S. will back SA, Russia will back Iran.
2. Turkey is continually irritating the ISIS crises: Russia will oppose Turkey, the U.S. will back Turkey because of the outdated NATO treaty.
3. Syria: The U.S. wants to oust Assad, the Russians back him. The Iranians also oppose Assad, yet we oppose the Iranians.
4. ISIS: The entity that is creating proxy wars, the U.S. vs. Russia without the U.S. and Russia actually fighting but bringing them closer and closer to a fight.
5. Iran announces threat to close the Straight of Hormuz, which will see oil prices shoot to a minimum of $200 per barrel if not more, more than likely more.
6. NAZI party is gaining ground in Europe: The nazi party now holds seats in various parliaments and governments across Europe. They are still a minority but with Nationalism growing rapidly due to the immigration issues, it's a repeat of 100yrs ago.
Add in the Israel factor to all this, which is unavoidable due to the region and the growing economic issues worldwide along with the already existing and growing immigrant crisis and you have the perfect atmosphere for war. And in this case, we're talking about full fledge war. Not that Iraq and Afghanistan wasn't a war, but nowhere near to the extent or level of what we're talking about here.
Pissing Excellence!
while i will agree the article is kind of dumb, who is to say that it can't/won't happen.
i just posted it to discuss and to think what if. i would hate to be trying to buy my future son or daughter a gun, and couldn't because a doctor one time put something on my chart that says i have some type of mental problem
VET
Your on the $$$... 'Bullying' was the wrong word(we did what we had to do)... Mistake? Maybe now... At that time? Im not saying it was right but we were at war... But they would've done the same(it was a race to build the first A-bomb - it was going to be used regardless of side)
You've listed a great deal of exactly is what's going on(great info)... Especially The whole Iran/Russia/USA debacle, we're all split and backing different people which will/has, imo, already led to a very Delicate situation w/Russia and the US... Like you've syated in 1,3,4 for sure! It's
Last edited by NACH3; 01-07-2016 at 11:27 AM.
"ARs Pork Eating Crusader"
I do not know how well you know your history but 2016 resembles europe just before ww1. ********s and rivalry amongst powerful nations its only going to take a little spark.
Edit: why is the word alli ance blocked?
Last edited by Euroholic; 01-06-2016 at 05:01 PM.
"ARs Pork Eating Crusader"
People feak over north korea but they seem to forget that They only huff and puff to remind the world that they are still there. They just want to keep their regime in power. They are so isolated that you would forget they were there. If they stayed quit. Their defence strategy is to be as loud as they can to keep the west away.
Also it is known that the usa needs north korea as a land buffer to china. China knows this also and is the only reason the usa and china put up with them.
Knowledgeable Member
Correct, it's eerily similar. Depending on how you look at it, the Archduke Ferdinand moment, you could call that the Arab Spring or the Turks shooting down the Russian fighter jet. The Arab Spring is what initially got the ball rolling leading to the conflicts we now see, but the downed Russian jet will be the bullet. A lot of similarities to WWI, numerous. However, the rising since of nationalism is also something that seems to be being ignored, although talked about slightly in some circles, which carries with it a lot of similarities to WWII. Russia, Germany and Italy all fell prey to this prior to WWII and it's infecting Europe again now in many areas.
"ARs Pork Eating Crusader"
Yup shes all there mate. Far Right wing politics are on the rise world wide because of the mass migration and fear.
Hitler is the prime example of being a product of his time. nationlism was high in germany and he used it to his advantage to get into power. You could go as far to even compare trump as the national hero needed at the current point in time like hitler was seen at the time.
Knowledgeable Member
Yes and no. Far right politics in Europe is a far cry from far right politics in the U.S. European nationalism, which is far right Europe, leads to a government state. It's not the same as a left wing socialistic state but still a government state. A far right government in the U.S. is not a government run state. It's funny, not haha funny, that both far right and far left in Europe lead to total government control, although in different ways.
As far as Trump goes, I wouldn't compare him to Hitler at all. I don't believe Trump is actually a conservative. I do believe he is a big government politician. Every solution he offers is government, government, government and sounds like a massive power grab, even more so than the current president. Although a power grab like or greater than the current president it would be in a very different way, but regardless of the way it's still the wrong direction IMO.
I also think most don't understand nationalism. Pride in your country is a good thing. Taking care of your country and your people first is a good thing, but that's not what nationalism is but it often uses that as a tool to deceive and bring in more support.
"ARs Pork Eating Crusader"
I kind of would compare hitlers rise to power to trump. You have the weakened weimar government which could be seen as obama and you have the frustrated disillusioned populous. You have the political violence from the communists which is similar to current race relations. Then along comes a dashing individual who wants change and make his country great again by thinking outside the box and captivating the populous.
If this was any other point in time trump would not even be seen as a contender. But this is a classic case of how a individual uses the current climate for their own agenda. Trump may not be perfect but I think trump is the best man for the job. His finger on the button will make the world a better place. I read somewhere that illegal immigrants can get drivers licences and vote in the elections? I would like to do that
And yes you are correct extreme far left and extreme far right amount to the same thing. Just a tad right of centre is fine with me
Ps im a member of a alternative history forum. its fun to ponder the "what if"
Associate Member
That reminded me, today I read the nazi party is making a come back in germany, apparently they are a minority party but they still existI kind of would compare hitlers rise to power to trump. You have the weakened weimar government which could be seen as obama and you have the frustrated disillusioned populous. You have the political violence from the communists which is similar to current race relations. Then along comes a dashing individual who wants change and make his country great again by thinking outside the box and captivating the populous.
If this was any other point in time trump would not even be seen as a contender. But this is a classic case of how a individual uses the current climate for their own agenda. Trump may not be perfect but I think trump is the best man for the job. His finger on the button will make the world a better place. I read somewhere that illegal immigrants can get drivers licences and vote in the elections? I would like to do that
And yes you are correct extreme far left and extreme far right amount to the same thing. Just a tad right of centre is fine with me
Ps im a member of a alternative history forum. its fun to ponder the "what if"
Knowledgeable Member
And they've popped up in most countries in Europe, have seats in Greek government and soon it looks like that may be true in Sweden. They're more than existing, they're starting to crawl out of their holes and people are gravitating to them. Granted, it's not a mass gravitation, not yet, but it wasn't a mass gravitation initially last time either.
Knowledgeable Member
Hitler and Trump both have used the anger of the people to get their attention and increase in popularity. What Trump does with his popularity, particularly if he wins, only then could we determine if he is Hitler like.I kind of would compare hitlers rise to power to trump. You have the weakened weimar government which could be seen as obama and you have the frustrated disillusioned populous. You have the political violence from the communists which is similar to current race relations. Then along comes a dashing individual who wants change and make his country great again by thinking outside the box and captivating the populous.
If this was any other point in time trump would not even be seen as a contender. But this is a classic case of how a individual uses the current climate for their own agenda. Trump may not be perfect but I think trump is the best man for the job. His finger on the button will make the world a better place. I read somewhere that illegal immigrants can get drivers licences and vote in the elections? I would like to do that
And yes you are correct extreme far left and extreme far right amount to the same thing. Just a tad right of centre is fine with me
Ps im a member of a alternative history forum. its fun to ponder the "what if"
Associate Member
Yeah well I think its gonna come a lot more to the light since they are having these problems with the refugees....perfect excuse
Knowledgeable Member
Why do you think he would tell us up front? That's what I keep saying, on the surface what he says sounds good but its never what happens. We always have to wait until its made law to find out what's it's really going to do like the Healthcare and most everything else he has done. What makes you think or believe it will be different this time????
Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. We are WAY past #2
https://youtu.be/a3IWq3CXHyc
VET
I've also brought this up in conversations with co-workers etc... And all the History buffs do see the similarities...
Metal made a good point^(but I do the similarities - whether or not to the same degree) Hitler just started out seeing what he could get away with - then realized he had the backing to just(do what he pleased)... steal, torture, and everything else he came to do/be...
Plus why do you think the Swiss are so close to Germany(Nazi Germany) weren't they given most of the pieces that Hitler stole(paintings/money etc) still in 'hiding' yet certainly starting to come to attention! I could be wrong but, Didn't most of Hitlers party retrieve to the Sweden(who has/and still has no army, yet are one of the the richest countries)?
Last edited by NACH3; 01-07-2016 at 11:29 AM.
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