11 lessons from Vietnam....

[Phillyboy1]

all im saying in this thread is, bush is the biggest idiot i think ive ever met or seen in my life. i would honestly love to see his IQ score. i saw him get asked questions about wmd's and he talked around it. they asked him 5 times, and kept saying you havent answered our question. and 5 times he gave them a answer that had nothing to do with the question asked. he needs to just realize he's a idiot, and should step down from office. its like having the dumbest kid that got picked on in school now become that capt of the football team at gym and he gets to pick his team. he doesnt have the slightest clue!

and yes the war is nowhere over in iraq. suicide bombers will never give up. and after a while us here at home are gonna finally get tired of our soilders dying. we'll bring them home, and the M.E. will have a feild day saying they won, the US is leaving

[tryingtogetbig]

all im saying in this thread is, bush is the biggest idiot i think ive ever met or seen in my life. i would honestly love to see his IQ score. i saw him get asked questions about wmd's and he talked around it. they asked him 5 times, and kept saying you havent answered our question. and 5 times he gave them a answer that had nothing to do with the question asked. he needs to just realize he's a idiot, and should step down from office. its like having the dumbest kid that got picked on in school now become that capt of the football team at gym and he gets to pick his team. he doesnt have the slightest clue!

and yes the war is nowhere over in iraq. suicide bombers will never give up. and after a while us here at home are gonna finally get tired of our soilders dying. we'll bring them home, and the M.E. will have a feild day saying they won, the US is leaving

Exactly how long have you been around or listened to politicians, lawyers, reporters, car salesman, etc ?????? They NEVER answer a question bro! Wow...your reply really surprises me.

Remember this "did you have sex with Monica Lewinski?" Answer "I did not have sexual relations with her." Yeah...Right!!

peace,

ttgb

[JGK]

Or how about...

"It depends on what your definition of is is"

Just face it, all politicians are power hungry crooks. They wouldn't become politicians if they didn't crave power. Think that any of them actually have your best interest in mind? Better think again.

[symatech]

Or how about...

"It depends on what your definition of is is"

Just face it, all politicians are power hungry crooks. They wouldn't become politicians if they didn't crave power. Think that any of them actually have your best interest in mind? Better think again.

a good point. sad but true.

We OWN Afghanistan. We OWN Iraq. We have NOT been attacked since........Bush has not taken away 1 dam freedom from you

Ok, it's time to address this point. How long before 9/11 since we had an attack? anybody remember? it was the bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993. so 8 years had passed. and now people say "its been been 2 years since we've had an attack Bush has saved us." cmon...Like bouncer said Bin laden and other terrorists invest years and years of effort into their work. If they want to hit us they will. how can you, after only 2 years, claim that bush has stopped anything?

Now, Bush has not taken 1 dam freedom from me? Have you heard of the patriot act? do you know what it can do? You do realize that YOU can be held in federal prision INDEFINATELY without trial or notification to ANYBODY!? this doesnt piss you off? how can you as a lover of freedom support bush? because he appeals to the mob? mob mentality is very foolish and dangerous.

In case you all have forgotten the Bill of Rights I'll let you know what your 6th amendment WAS.

Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense

Oh yeah bush isnt taking our freedom....Just shave a little off the constitution and he's right on!!

[tryingtogetbig]

Ok, it's time to address this point. How long before 9/11 since we had an attack? anybody remember? it was the bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993. so 8 years had passed. and now people say "its been been 2 years since we've had an attack Bush has saved us." cmon...Like bouncer said Bin laden and other terrorists invest years and years of effort into their work. If they want to hit us they will. how can you, after only 2 years, claim that bush has stopped anything?

So if I understand you correctly, you are saying that if Clinton had done something during those 8 years he was in office 9/11 probably wouldn't have happened!

Sorry...I seem to argue on the same intellect level as other people sometimes. lol.

Really, this is the same kind of mumbojumbo (logic) you are reciting.

I guess Bush was just suppose to sit back and "talk" with all of the terrorists and the countries harboring them.? Fuk That!

Again, thank goodness Bush is President...and will be for another term!!

peace,

ttgb

[Phillyboy1]

Exactly how long have you been around or listened to politicians, lawyers, reporters, car salesman, etc ?????? They NEVER answer a question bro! Wow...your reply really surprises me.

Remember this "did you have sex with Monica Lewinski?" Answer "I did not have sexual relations with her." Yeah...Right!!

peace,

ttgb

well honestly, i belive a blow job isnt sex. if that was true then sh-t ive had sex with alot more girls then 9 or so.
are you really gonna tell me you dont think bush is a dumb person?

[jeffylyte]

ok, I won't get into the politics of this other than to say all politicians need to be kilt! other than that I need to correct a few errors in fact.

1) there were not hundreds of thousands of troops killed in vietnam, it was about 60,000 and officially over an 8 year period.
2) officially it was over an eight year period, but in reality it was much longer. we were there in '57 with CIA and military "advisers" and by '63 there were 16,000 "advisers". officially the gulf of tonkin resolution in 1965 provided impetus to put regulars into vietnam and this is where the Official conflict begins. we pulled out in 1973. [as a note my father was there in '64 and then again in '65 or '66, i don't remember when.3
3) technically none of these are "wars" per se, but conflicts. no act or articles of war have been produced.
4) while many may blame clinton for not doin anything about osama. remember on multiple occasions he tried to kill bin laden by shooting missles at him.
5) remember that for an entire year, bush did not do anything about osama bin laden. he didnt even shoot missles at him like clinton did. It wasnt until after 9/11 that he acted. any president would go after him then... even al gore. we need to remember there was not the political will to stage a large scale attack on osama or sadam before 9/11.

again, this response is not meant as a political point, just clearing up some issues.

[tryingtogetbig]

That's how to post true information!! Accurate and unbiased!

Good post Jefflyye!

peace,

ttgb

[symatech]

That's how to post true information!! Accurate and unbiased!

Good post Jefflyye!

peace,

ttgb

I agree. Excelent post Jeff

[tryingtogetbig]

I'll ask it again...

"What right has Bush taken away from YOU?"

In other words...what can YOU not do today you could do before?

Nothing...

Just liberal BS Bush bashing!

peace,

ttgb

[mfenske]

There was a time when I thought that the Bush admin. orchestrated the whole 9/11 attack. They used Bin Laden as a scapegoat. Talk about a good way to improve one's sagging approval rating and struggling economy. Just a thought that I had. I am sure Purepower and Tryingtogetbig are gonna flame the heck out of me for this but oh well. Mark

[tryingtogetbig]

Bouncer those #'s look REALLY high...I think it's like around 600 total.

I couldn't read the article either Bouncer...started saying "Vietnam War" in the first sentence. I know which direction it's going just from that.

peace,

ttgb

[BOUNCER]

Bouncer those #'s look REALLY high...I think it's like around 600 total.

I couldn't read the article either Bouncer...started saying "Vietnam War" in the first sentence. I know which direction it's going just from that.

peace,

ttgb

Nah its cool, I call it 'burying your head in the sand'. You know, if the loss of so many American lives in Iraq wasn't so tragic the Amercian media's coverage (or lack of) of the war in Iraq would be laughable. You see, apart from the BBC, Euronews and Sky News we also get to compare the coverage with media services from the US, ie FOX and CNN. Your media hides, or just doesn't bother to cover the casualty figures the US is suffering on a daily basis..

[symatech]

Nah its cool, I call it 'burying your head in the sand'. You know, if the loss of so many American lives in Iraq wasn't so tragic the Amercian media's coverage (or lack of) of the war in Iraq would be laughable. You see, apart from the BBC, Euronews and Sky News we also get to compare the coverage with media services from the US, ie FOX and CNN. Your media hides, or just doesn't bother to cover the casualty figures the US is suffering on a daily basis..

of course not, that would make the current admin look bad. and we cant have that on election year...

ttbg, what cant i do today that i could do before bush? i thought it was obvious. i thought that by posting your former VI amendment right it was blatantly obvious...ill explain again. I worry that for no reason I may be picked up by bush's gesthapo and spend the rest of my life in prision for something i never did. is it likely? not really i suppose, is it possible? yes. there no longer exists the Right to have a trial by jury. or for you to have a legal defense.

[tryingtogetbig]

Nah its cool, I call it 'burying your head in the sand'. You know, if the loss of so many American lives in Iraq wasn't so tragic the Amercian media's coverage (or lack of) of the war in Iraq would be laughable. You see, apart from the BBC, Euronews and Sky News we also get to compare the coverage with media services from the US, ie FOX and CNN. Your media hides, or just doesn't bother to cover the casualty figures the US is suffering on a daily basis..

Well...you sure seem to know everything bouncer! And be everywhere! And Know more than our military! And know more than the President of the United States! And.........ahhhh Fuk it!

****...why don't you run for president of a country somewhere?

Except that you are wrong here Bouncer...We do get to hear and see the number of casualties we are suffereing everyday...we hear it over and over....and then listen to people all day that "know everything" continue to bash US and or Bush.

Again, at least Bush is trying to do something!

peace,

ttgb

[BOUNCER]

Well...you sure seem to know everything bouncer! And be everywhere! And Know more than our military! And know more than the President of the United States! And.........ahhhh Fuk it!

****...why don't you run for president of a country somewhere?

Except that you are wrong here Bouncer...We do get to hear and see the number of casualties we are suffereing everyday...we hear it over and over....and then listen to people all day that "know everything" continue to bash US and or Bush.

Again, at least Bush is trying to do something!

peace,

ttgb

Oh I do apologise, I should have realised you wanted to hear more empty headed statements from ignorant rednecks than someone who actually keeps up to date with current world affairs that might effect me sometime in the future. As for being everywhere, well yes, actually I've been all over the world in my 19yrs (and counting) of military service. If that embarress's you hardluck but I can't pretend I haven't

Btw, I'm not attacking Bush in this thread, 'nor have I attacked the US. Get that straight.

[tryingtogetbig]

Oh I do apologise, I should have realised you wanted to hear more empty headed statements from ignorant rednecks than someone who actually keeps up to date with current world affairs that might effect me sometime in the future. As for being everywhere, well yes, actually I've been all over the world in my 19yrs (and counting) of military service. If that embarress's you hardluck but I can't pretend I haven't

Btw, I'm not attacking Bush in this thread, 'nor have I attacked the US. Get that straight.

Damit I like arguing with you!! If you are EVER in the states...you and I are drinking a cold beer together! On you of course!

peace,

ttgb

[BOUNCER]

ttgb. Do you think the 6 yr old boy whose brain washed today by his local imam doesn't have the next 30 yrs to wait to attack his enemies?. Get real, I've serviced in the middle east, I know my enemy and I'll tell you this. These are people whose backlash you'll feel again, and again. You attacked the wrong country, and the wrong tyrant. You got it so wrong, but then the Bush administration was only ever looking for a soft target. But your stuck there now, this is not a thread I'm getting too involved in because its been beaten to death already.

[tryingtogetbig]

...this is not a thread I'm getting too involved in because its been beaten to death already.

Agreed!

You instigator!

[symatech]

LOL. yeah i must admit looking back this thread didnt go where i wanted it to. i just thought it'd be interesting to try and see if learning from the past could prevent further such instinces in the future. in terms of scale the war in Iraq is no where near Vietnam. and i dont honestly think it will be. I was meerly trying to address the mistakes made, and if we had grown from them.

But, I -as much as I dislike- find it difficult to stop arguing politics. But I will stop now because we have beaten this to death and will never resolve anything much love for the bro's at AR.....ya righty bastads

peace

[Elliot]

lol.. they wanted to impeach/castrate clinton for getting head yet they let bush send our troops to get slauthered because he try to kill his daddy, wait i mean CAUSE SADDAM POSSES WMD AND HES A EVIL EVIL MAN!#@!@

[tryingtogetbig]

lol.. they wanted to impeach/castrate clinton for getting head yet they let bush send our troops to get slauthered because he try to kill his daddy, wait i mean CAUSE SADDAM POSSES WMD AND HES A EVIL EVIL MAN!#@!@

That is kind of insensitive to the Iraqi's that are now US citizens that have endlessly told of Saddam's horrors and how he treated people. WMD on his own people, rapeing, murdering. ANd he thumbed his nose at the UN for 10 years. Obviously you didn't read that above, so you probably won't comprehend this time either.

Yeah Symatech...this thread's life is about over now.

Fun debating with all of you.

peace,

ttgb

[hoss827]

lol.. they wanted to impeach/castrate clinton for getting head yet they let bush send our troops to get slauthered because he try to kill his daddy, wait i mean CAUSE SADDAM POSSES WMD AND HES A EVIL EVIL MAN!#@!@

That's bull****....I personally thought Clinton was a good prez...Look at it from this perspectivve...

People cheat on their spouses ALL THE TIME....Why is it that when the president does it, it's time to throw stones???? That's sheer hypocracy IMO anyway..

[Terinox]

WHY do some Americans even think 9/11 happened?!? PLEASE don't tell me it's because you think these "terrorists" suddenly decided to just attack the U.S. for the hell of it?!? Because they were JEALOUS of your way of living?! And that they just did it for fun?! Please, tell me why YOU guys think 9/11 happened, I would like to hear that.

[hoss827]

WHY do some Americans even think 9/11 happened?!? PLEASE don't tell me it's because you think these "terrorists" suddenly decided to just attack the U.S. for the hell of it?!? Because they were JEALOUS of your way of living?! And that they just did it for fun?! Please, tell me why YOU guys think 9/11 happened, I would like to hear that.

In my opinion....9/11 happend because it was their belief that it must happend. They are supposed to wage a holy war against us...There's one thing i've learned about that whole experience...To them, were the evil empire...and to us, they're nothing more then terrorists. When 9/11 happend, most people just said "They should burn in ****ing hell" that i heard from. I thought to myself "Why would they do that???". It was their beliefs that lead them to do it... The lesson i learned though ,was that there is no right or wrong in the world, no good or evil. Only hate.

[Terinox]

In my opinion....9/11 happend because it was their belief that it must happend. They are supposed to wage a holy war against us...There's one thing i've learned about that whole experience...To them, were the evil empire...and to us, they're nothing more then terrorists. When 9/11 happend, most people just said "They should burn in ****ing hell" that i heard from. I thought to myself "Why would they do that???". It was their beliefs that lead them to do it... The lesson i learned though ,was that there is no right or wrong in the world, no good or evil. Only hate.

Dude, you think U.S. going into Afghanistan was the U.S.'s revenge/retalliation?! 9/11 WAS THE MIDDLE EASTS revenge/retallation for all the things the U.S. has done to these ME and 3rd world countries. Although the ME general hate for the U.S. has a small part for it, the MAJOR reason is for all the ****. Countless things, selling of weapons to ENCOURAGE war between Iraq/Iran, constant desire and need for their oil, occupation of their lands and boarders and sea coasts!!

[USfighterFC]

Sorry dudes but there is no way I'm gonna post an argument because everyone wants to get their point across 1000 times even though it will make no difference. Nobody will ever prove anyone wrong and everyone will always think they're right. I disagree with a lot of what I heard in here but there is no way I'm gonna post a reply because I know that I will post at least 100 more after that and I'm way to lazy and I'm just glad to be on roids and dont want that mood ruined.

[BOUNCER]

Sorry dudes but there is no way I'm gonna post an argument because everyone wants to get their point across 1000 times even though it will make no difference. Nobody will ever prove anyone wrong and everyone will always think they're right. I disagree with a lot of what I heard in here but there is no way I'm gonna post a reply because I know that I will post at least 100 more after that and I'm way to lazy and I'm just glad to be on roids and dont want that mood ruined.

Well that looks like a reply to me!, YOUR IN...

[USfighterFC]

LOL bouncer I haven't said jack about anything yet. but i will say this......9/11 happened because our troops are in the middle east and our support of Israel (main reason i think) and that terinox is so far off with his horse**** beliefs of the US........well because he has his own agenda. We saved plenty of peoples asses in the course of time as well. But he likes to overlook that fact for his own personal reasons(which are pretty obvious) People just suck the big one. To be honest terinox what you just said sounds a lot like what Al-Qaeda preaches to the world everyday.

[Terinox]

LOL bouncer I haven't said jack about anything yet. but i will say this......9/11 happened because our troops are in the middle east and our support of Israel (main reason i think) and that terinox is so far off with his horse**** beliefs of the US........well because he has his own agenda. We saved plenty of peoples asses in the course of time as well. But he likes to overlook that fact for his own personal reasons(which are pretty obvious) People just suck the big one. To be honest terinox what you just said sounds a lot like what Al-Qaeda preaches to the world everyday.

It's all bull****? You think the U.S. did NOT sell weapons to Iran and Iraq to prolong the war? That is a fact, whether you like it or not.

I have NOTHING against the country as a whole, or any of it's citizens (well majority) who just want to live their lives and are making a living. I am against a lot of the things that the government does behind EVERYONE'S back and doesn't tell you about. When the hell did I say I SUPPORT terrorism? There are tons of **** that the ME countries have done and still do that is also terrible. And the fact that you are basically calling ME a terrorsit with that comment shows the kind of person you are. I'm not even gonna go on about this **** anymore and turn it into one giant flame war. I TOLD myself not to get involved in this political **** since all this **** happened last time.

So whatever, I'm done here, good luck with the debate.

[USfighterFC]

It's all bull****? You think the U.S. did NOT sell weapons to Iran and Iraq to prolong the war? That is a fact, whether you like it or not.

I have NOTHING against the country as a whole, or any of it's citizens (well majority) who just want to live their lives and are making a living. I am against a lot of the things that the government does behind EVERYONE'S back and doesn't tell you about. When the hell did I say I SUPPORT terrorism? And the fact that you are basically calling ME a terrorsit with that comment shows the kind of person you are. I'm not even gonna go on about this **** anymore and turn it into one giant flame war. I TOLD myself not to get involved in this political **** since all this **** happened last time.

So whatever, I'm done here, good luck with the debate.

Dont look into it that much. You say I called you a terrorist? Exactly what line did i say terinox is a terrorist....I said the things you say sound somewhat similiar to what Al-Qaeda preaches but that doesn't mean I said you're a terrorist. I'm not dogging on you, you just blindly follow your beliefs (not necessarily religion) because it looks out for your special interests. For one the US selling arms isnt exactly a big secret......We are the largest arms dealer in the world and we hated Iran for holding our guys hostages for 444 days. It's called pay back bro and it's a bitch but they had it coming. I'm glad we sold them those weapons cuz those Iranians who tortured our guys for over a year are pieces of s*it and they were supported by their gov't. Dont act like they're so innocent cuz they're sure a sh*t not. If the gov't came out and told me they were selling Iraq arms for fighting Iran then hey it really wouldn't bother me cuz I hate the gov't of Iran.

[BOUNCER]

I'm glad we sold them those weapons cuz those Iranians who tortured our guys for over a year are pieces of s*it and they were supported by their gov't.

Two words;


"Guantanamo Bay"

[USfighterFC]

Oh one more thing terinox look at what the Russians do to the Chechens everyday. Look how they openly torture those people and have no quarrels about leveling entire cities with no regard for civilians. Look what they did when they went into afghanistan and slaughtered millions of people for the f*ck of it. Look how they supressed the practice of Islam in their borders for 70 somewhat years. Look how they forcefully took over Muslim countries of the CIS and completely changed their way of life and religious practices. Kinda funny how they have such great relations with middle eastern countries and hardly catch flack for what they do or have done.....which is by far much worse than anything we've done. It's great to see the double standards that someone accuses us of doing but then turns around and does the same thing right back to us. Some people love letting their ideology blind them from reality to just completely strengthen their stance on a certain cause (not hitting you on that just those ME countries).

[tryingtogetbig]

oohhh USFighter....you fuked up!! lol

Just like being in quick sand or a gigantic pile of horseshiet...you're stuck in the middle of the endless debate over how bad America and its leaders are!

Now you too are a "blindless patriot" because you actually believe America has a good agenda!

Good luck bro!

peace,

ttgb

[bermich]

So we should not have a military anymore cause soldiers might die???? There is NO DRAFT. People enlisted on their own free will. UNLIKE VIETNAM.

Lordblitz said it best. If America was weak, other countries would come over and take it over.... That is enough said right there.

America is not going to WITHDRAW from IRAQ.
RED Ketchup. Just because soldiers are dying, doesnt mean there is still a war.
So if one soldier dies that mean the war is still raging on?

Stop comparing IRAQ to Vietnam. When 50,000 american soliders die in IRAQ, then compare it.

If America was taken over, trust me, all you complainers would say we should have had a stronger military and we should have prevented this.
You guys are probably the ones that wait til your engine blows up from lack of oil because the car is running fine so why bother checking and maintaining it.

[USfighterFC]

LOL i know i f*cked up but I couldn't stand on the sidelines while people talk so much s*it about this country. Politics is politics and I hate many politicians but I'm so happy to live in this country. People say "what is this country coming to" and that kinda crap but we live in the greatest society this world EVER produced. We were the first country to democratically elect who we wanted and we had the right to say anything we wanted how much better could life be. Everyone has the right to live their life the way they want without fear of anything. It's the best system ever....it's got it's flaws but we're not exactly God so it can't be perfect. If our country was under threat of annhilation i would go to war to protect everything i love over here, to protect everything we ever stood up for. I'll go to war and die for this country because it is just that good for the life we were allowed to lead anyway we wished. Some people in other countries hate us for that and if they do then they should just shut up and deal with their life on their side of the planet instead of burning our flags and threatening our people.

[bermich]

Oh yeah. Who was the person who said Bush will not be re elected? Is that fact or just your opinion. He is going to win again by a land slide. The only person who has a chance is that general guy who entered the Demos late.
He will not be assasinated or impeached. It is too hard to impeach a president. Clinton just happened to try to escape his f u c k up. If he admitted to it, the situation would have been forgotten quickly.

[tryingtogetbig]

oooohhhh bermy.....you fuked up BIG TIME!!!! lol

God help ya! You too are now a "blindless patriot."

[tryingtogetbig]

lol.....No, you are okay. In no way fashion or form are you a "blind patiot."

lol

You do know that's pretty fuked up though....RIGHT!!?? Okay, so maybe just a little flame. You can go hug your trees now!! lol

peace,

ttgb

[USfighterFC]

you still think that mfenske? That's awful man.......plus you see how bad our intell and CIA is....you think Bush would honestly pull that off without getting caught? You can't think like tha man that kinda thinking is dangerous.......i hated clinton but if it was clinton in office there is no way in hell I would ever think he orchestrated it.