HCG - How important is it?

[marcus300]

w/ an insulin needle?

yes......

[ma3adi_Darkman]

man i just finsh my cut cycle from 1 week it was 12 weeks cycle ..so can i start taking hcg or it too late .. thankss all

[sizerp]

Just thought I'd share something on HMG -

This is a post by Pp.

"HCG is not really lh - leutenizing hormone - , it mimicks lh - leutenizing hormone - but it has a much longer half life of about 3-4 DAYS. Because of its longer half life it tends to quickly reduce the testes sensitivity because it ‘lingers’ in the system for so long. The lh - leutenizing hormone - that your body produces naturally has a half life of only about an hour, and is released in hourly bursts throughout the day.

HMG is generally only considered for fertility, but it actually is pretty awesome for PCT - post cycle therapy - . The only downside is the price, since you need 1 amp TWO to THREE times a day for the maximum effect, and this can get quite expensive. But since its bio-identical to the body’s natural gonadotropins it is highly effective to stimulating testosterone production. Plus is has the added synergy of FSH - follicle stimulating hormone - , which increases the testes sensitivity to lh - leutenizing hormone - , thus allowing the testes to produce more testosterone.

-Pp"

[roid_rage]

So if the testes (testicular dysfunction) are the main culprit in restoring testosterone production post cycle how can we maintain testicular function and endogenous testosterone production even when "shutdown" using andorgens? Simple - HCG.

HCG has the ability to maintain endogenous testosterone production and ITT (Intra-Testicular Testosterone) by stimulating the testes (directly) even when shutdown from androgens, such as Testosterone Enathate, shown in this study.

HCG is VERY important in cycles IMHO. It prevents the main reason the HPTA doesnt recover immediately post cycle - testicular dysfunction. It should be a staple of EVERY cycle causing shutdown IMHO.

I suggest HCG be used at 125-250ius 2-3 times weekly (as per Dr.Crisler's advice) with an AI throughout the cycle. This will maintain testicular size and function and prevent testicular dysfunction. It should also be noted that administering over "500ius will cause an increase in estrogen and progesterone, further hindering recovery" - Dr.Crisler.



This thread has been written on correspondance from Dr.Crisler (Swale), Concilliator and my own research gathered.

I have only one problem with that? while your are HPT is supress by roids, you cant restore the negative feed back, as long as there is roids on your blood stream, that saying, your wont be able to produce endogenous test, but keep your testes alive... If so, then can we assume that we can just run a mono Deca cycle without test and just use HCG??? If the HCG is able to keep endogenous test production while on cycle, then it should work...

by the way, the study only says that it was able to mantain ITT, not serum T.

[Swifto]

I have only one problem with that? while your are HPT is supress by roids, you cant restore the negative feed back, as long as there is roids on your blood stream, that saying, your wont be able to produce endogenous test, but keep your testes alive... If so, then can we assume that we can just run a mono Deca cycle without test and just use HCG??? If the HCG is able to keep endogenous test production while on cycle, then it should work...

by the way, the study only says that it was able to mantain ITT, not serum T.

I'm aware what the study states. I stated it maintain endogenous T from correspondance with Dr.Crisler via PM's over at PM.com.

Although the HP is "shutdown" from androgens the leydig cells are still stimulated directly via HCG administration.

In theory, yes, you could run a Deca cycle with HCG. But to run an effective dose of testosterone (with it if you will) you'de need to use fairly large amounts of HCG and risk desensitisation. You would also raise estrogen and progesterone a fair bit, via aromotase and direct production from the testes.

There is no logic in running Deca/HCG anyhow. Running a testosterone preperation would be more cost effective, provide more stable androgen levels and not risk desensitisation.

[roid_rage]

I'm aware what the study states. I stated it maintain endogenous T from correspondance with Dr.Crisler via PM's over at PM.com.

Although the HP is "shutdown" from androgens the leydig cells are still stimulated directly via HCG administration.

In theory, yes, you could run a Deca cycle with HCG. But to run an effective dose of testosterone (with it if you will) you'de need to use fairly large amounts of HCG and risk desensitisation. You would also raise estrogen and progesterone a fair bit, via aromotase and direct production from the testes.

There is no logic in running Deca/HCG anyhow. Running a testosterone preperation would be more cost effective, provide more stable androgen levels and not risk desensitisation.

how so?? why would you need to use a bigger dosis of HCG? if 250 ui e5d can keep your endogenous T production going on, why would you need more??

if the HCG can keep your endogenous T production while on roids, then heck, why in the hell do we need PCT if your body never stops making test? to combat strgones? if we are using Deca, there wont be too many estrogens going around, hell, add letro to the cycle, and you wont have stronges, your body will still make test, so there you go.. we are fine... no PCT needed.

Lets put aside the fact that of course will be better to use test, but in theory, using Deca and HCG during cycle will be able to prevent libido problems for example?

[Swifto]

how so?? why would you need to use a bigger dosis of HCG? if 250 ui e5d can keep your endogenous T production going on, why would you need more??

250ius will maintain endogenous testosterone. That doesnt mean it will prevent labido problems whilst on progestins such as Deca/Tren. It maintains endogenous T, thats not up for debate IMHO. What is up for debate is how much HCG you'de need administer to replicate exogenous testosterone levels. I suspect you'de need to higher dose and risk desensitisation.

if the HCG can keep your endogenous T production while on roids, then heck, why in the hell do we need PCT if your body never stops making test? to combat strgones? if we are using Deca, there wont be too many estrogens going around, hell, add letro to the cycle, and you wont have stronges, your body will still make test, so there you go.. we are fine... no PCT needed.

No, its not that simple. Re-read my first post in this thread. Its clear you dont understand it. Also, read my PCT Sticky.

HCG will prevent testicular dysfunction. We still need to use SERMs to bring back the hypothalamus and get endogenous testosterone prodcution back (naturally) to basline post cycle.

Lets put aside the fact that of course will be better to use test, but in theory, using Deca and HCG during cycle will be able to prevent libido problems for example?

I have no idea and wouldnt risk it. You have to remember how quickly progestins cause HPTA shutdown. They activate both the AR and PR in the hypothalamus. Some even have labido issues on progestins when using exogenous testosterone. Again, running Deca/HCG isnt a wise choice. Adding a testosterone compound and supplementing with HCG for the reasons this thread was written, is.

HCG isnt a cycle in itself, its meerly an additive (and good one at that) in making recovery easier.

bolds

[roid_rage]

bolds

I guess it is to determinate how much endogenous T is produce by your body then.

[Fit N Fun]

if we are using Deca, there wont be too many estrogens going around.

Congratulations Swifto on a fantastic thread.

I use Trentest 300 (has 200mg/ml of test Cypionate and 100 mg/ml test Enanthate) @ 1ml per week

+

Deca Nandrodex 300 ( has 300mg/ml Nandrolone Decanoate ) @ 1ml per week.

I was not aware of this thread before, but through experimentation had settled on 500 iu / week HCG from a few weeks in till the end of the cycle and it works great, just like you say it does.

Reading the thread, my question is combining Deca and HCG appeared to not have your complete approval and would appreciate your thoughts.

[SpotMe87]

does anyone know how much bac. water you get in a vial in pregnyl?

[fummins]

Myself and a buddy are both on small dosages of Test Sust, 125 to 150 per week, he is 44y.o and I am 51. He ran across an old bodybuilder buddy who educated him on HCG and man is he is getting shredded, lost about 15 lbs of fat and still cutting. I ordered some and am getting my education sorted out before i pin it. I have some Anavar i have been saving for my summer cutting regimen, anyone ever stacked Test/Anavar/HCG with positive results?

[Swifto]

Myself and a buddy are both on small dosages of Test Sust, 125 to 150 per week, he is 44y.o and I am 51. He ran across an old bodybuilder buddy who educated him on HCG and man is he is getting shredded, lost about 15 lbs of fat and still cutting. I ordered some and am getting my education sorted out before i pin it. I have some Anavar i have been saving for my summer cutting regimen, anyone ever stacked Test/Anavar/HCG with positive results?

I'd prefer if this thread sticked with HCG related questions and protocol ideas/suggestions.

[fummins]

I'd prefer if this thread sticked with HCG related questions and protocol ideas/suggestions.

Understood Swifto, if you have an opinion on my question could you PM me your thoughts? Thanks

[JuiceMonkey007]

I'd prefer if this thread sticked with HCG related questions and protocol ideas/suggestions.

I'm about to start my first cycle, 27,5'9 162lb, bf 12%
after educating myself pretty much I chose to go by this protocol:

1 – 10 Enan 500mg/wk
1 – 12 Nolvadex 10mg ED
1 – 12 L-dex .25mg ED

pct:

Day 1 300mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva / .25mg L-dex
Day 2 - 30 100mg Clomid / 20mg Nolva / .25mg L-dex
Day 31 - 37 20mg Nolva / .25mg L-dex

Then I found this hcg thread... After reading it all and understanding it well I came up with the conclusion to stack it throughout my cycle
so I thought to go 125ius From week 1-10 twice/w the same days I shoot Enan!
Am I right?

[xephonics]

So if I have no current access to HCG will I lose a lot more after cycle than if I did have it?

Just kind of wondering if I'm now destined to lose most of my gains, or if a good pct can help salvage most of my gains.

[Swifto]

So if I have no current access to HCG will I lose a lot more after cycle than if I did have it?

Just kind of wondering if I'm now destined to lose most of my gains, or if a good pct can help salvage most of my gains.

It will be harder to bring endogenous T back to baseline, yes. That may mean a reduction in gains. But there are lots of variables to "keeping gains" post cycle.

It would certainly make things eaiser to attain gains post cycle. As the testes are already online and ready for the bodies own stimulation (LH, FSH).

[xephonics]

ok so, ill just take what i can get this go around, but before next cycle ill make sure i have some on hand.

[Swifto]

bump

[dswanson]

Im currently taking about 600 mgs a wk of test prop for my 2nd cycle.
Im also prescribed to lorazepam for anxiety but do not take it daily.
Also i was thinking of taking clen for 2 wks on and 2 wks off at some point.
Any problems here?

I have hcg but i am already almost 8 weeks into the cycle w/o ever using any of it. After reading this thread I'm thinking of adding hcg to my current cycle. Is this a good idea and how much would you suggest I use per week????


15% bf
age 24
205 lbs
6'0'' tall
12 wk cycle of test

[Hazard]

Im currently taking about 600 mgs a wk of test prop for my 2nd cycle.
Im also prescribed to lorazepam for anxiety but do not take it daily.
Also i was thinking of taking clen for 2 wks on and 2 wks off at some point.
Any problems here?

I have hcg but i am already almost 8 weeks into the cycle w/o ever using any of it. After reading this thread I'm thinking of adding hcg to my current cycle. Is this a good idea and how much would you suggest I use per week????


15% bf
age 24
205 lbs
6'0'' tall
12 wk cycle of test

I would start my HCG right now (wk 8) at 500iu's every 3rd day for 6 shots. So thats 6 shots of 500iu's in 18 days. then i'd drop it down to 250iu's 2-3 times a week through week 12.

You're PCT starts roughly 3 days after your last prop injection. Don't run HCG into your PCT.

~Haz~

[Swifto]

I would start my HCG right now (wk 8) at 500iu's every 3rd day for 6 shots. So thats 6 shots of 500iu's in 18 days. then i'd drop it down to 250iu's 2-3 times a week through week 12.

You're PCT starts roughly 3 days after your last prop injection. Don't run HCG into your PCT.

~Haz~

Correct.

E3D or EOD to start with, then maintenence with 250ius 2-3 times weekly.

[crazy_rocks]

male, age 28, 6'1, 180 lbs, serious since 2005.

im thinking about using hcg through my 1st cycle of test C at 500mg (250mg twice a week) for 12 weeks.

since the effects of test are not noticeable until week 4 or 5 would it still be necessary to use hcg in the beginning of the cycle or is it ok to start around week 4 or 5?

was thinking about using hcg at 250 ius 2 or 3 times per week.

[The Deuce]

I wish I had KNOWN this for the past 7 months, I literally would have been running 125iu's Twice a WEEK with my TRT to keep my TESTES functioning... I always thought HCG was something you ran the last 3 weeks of a CYCLE at 250iu's ED.. that's at least WHAT I HAD ALWAYS DONE.. from NOW on starting in 3-4 weeks of course is to just do a simple 125iu's E3.5days SAME TIME I do my TRT injects, I'll just SUB-Q the HCG...

Great Read.. Thanks !!

[dswanson]

So I can do Intramuscular along with the aas im currently doing right?? Can i mix it with the test prop???

[BJJ]

HCG is VERY important in cycles IMHO. It prevents the main reason the HPTA doesnt recover immediately post cycle - testicular dysfunction. It should be a staple of EVERY cycle causing shutdown IMHO.

I suggest HCG be used at 125-250ius 2-3 times weekly (as per Dr.Crisler's advice) with an AI throughout the cycle. This will maintain testicular size and function and prevent testicular dysfunction. It should also be noted that administering over "500ius will cause an increase in estrogen and progesterone, further hindering recovery" - Dr.Crisler.

Could also be applied to a only var cycle made of 8 weeks 60mg ed, even though the oxandrolone is a mild steroid?
thank you

[sickntired]

male, age 28, 6'1, 180 lbs, serious since 2005.

im thinking about using hcg through my 1st cycle of test C at 500mg (250mg twice a week) for 12 weeks.

since the effects of test are not noticeable until week 4 or 5 would it still be necessary to use hcg in the beginning of the cycle or is it ok to start around week 4 or 5?

was thinking about using hcg at 250 ius 2 or 3 times per week.

Only, I'm 5'6 @ 150lbs

Also a couple other Q's......
-is an AI needed while "on" or "off" with a beginner cycle like this?
- would a post cycle of Nolva / Clomid be ok? if not....?

[crazy_rocks]

Only, I'm 5'6 @ 150lbs

Also a couple other Q's......
-is an AI needed while "on" or "off" with a beginner cycle like this?
- would a post cycle of Nolva / Clomid be ok? if not....?

i dont answer to many questions on here but your questions are pretty basic.

you should never do a cycle without an AI. you may need it.

and yes nolva and clomid are the best choices. sometimes you see people with a tweaked pct though, i dont have the knowledge to get into that.

[crazy_rocks]

someone please answer my question above. i have been patient for 1 whole day.

[Swifto]

male, age 28, 6'1, 180 lbs, serious since 2005.

im thinking about using hcg through my 1st cycle of test C at 500mg (250mg twice a week) for 12 weeks.

since the effects of test are not noticeable until week 4 or 5 would it still be necessary to use hcg in the beginning of the cycle or is it ok to start around week 4 or 5?

was thinking about using hcg at 250 ius 2 or 3 times per week.

Yes, its still suggested. As soon as the hypothalamus senses to much androgen activity, its shuts down (well, reduces considerably) hormone output.

But at "6'1, 180 lbs", I'm not sure your ready for a cycle, unless your single digit bodyfat %?

someone please answer my question above. i have been patient for 1 whole day.

Chill out.

Only, I'm 5'6 @ 150lbs

Also a couple other Q's......
-is an AI needed while "on" or "off" with a beginner cycle like this?
- would a post cycle of Nolva / Clomid be ok? if not....?

Its suggested an AI is used at a low dose. Some suggest it, others dont. I, however, wish I used one as I got estrogenic sides (that I'm stuck with) such as acne (scarring) and a small case of gyno.

Clomid/Tamox is fine, yes. Read my PCT sticky in that forum.

[crazy_rocks]

i dont have much fat on me at all.

[BJJ]

Could also be applied to a only var cycle made of 8 weeks 60mg ed, even though the oxandrolone is a mild steroid?
thank you

Since I received no clues from you on this post, I'll take it a s a "NO".

[Hazard]

Since I received no clues from you on this post, I'll take it a s a "NO".

Yes you can still use HCG..... maybe a lower dosage like 125iu's 2-3 times per week.....

~Haz~

[BJJ]

Yes you can still use HCG..... maybe a lower dosage like 125iu's 2-3 times per week.....

~Haz~

thank you very much.
I think though, having made a big mistake.
Once received my 5000 IU HCG, I have put it in the refrigerator before mixing it and it is still there!
Is it still usable, as far as you are concerned?

[Hazard]

thank you very much.
I think though, having made a big mistake.
Once received my 5000 IU HCG, I have put it in the refrigerator before mixing it and it is still there!
Is it still usable, as far as you are concerned?

I don't see why not..... I don't think the refridgeration would hurt the powder.

~Haz~

[BBall6]

thank you very much.
I think though, having made a big mistake.
Once received my 5000 IU HCG, I have put it in the refrigerator before mixing it and it is still there!
Is it still usable, as far as you are concerned?

You'll be fine. Just be sure and refrigerate after adding the bacteriostatic water to it as it will greatly extend the life/ potency of it.

[CoolStroybro]

I don't understand. If HCG comes in 1500 and 5000 iu amps. Why do I have to mix it with water? Can't I go to a pharmacist and tell him to inject me with 250 iu of this shiit ??

[CoolStroybro]

I don't understand. If HCG comes in 1500 and 5000 iu amps. Why do I have to mix it with water? Can't I go to a pharmacist and tell him to inject me with 250 iu of this shiit ??

Please can someone help? I don't know how to get back water. Cant I inject 250 iu directly ,let the pharmacist measure it? Or am I wrong?

[marcus300]

bump

[BBall6]

I have some HCG I was planning on using it about midway through my 10wk prop/NPP cycle (shot ED at 75mg each). After reading this, I am inclined to start using it now at the recommended 500iu/wk 3x/wk.

Doesn't is only last a little over a month if you keep it refrigerated? If I start now, I'm guessing 2 vials will get me through the end of my cycle. How do you know when the HCG goes bad?

[BBall6]

I know it states that it is just speculation, but in the profiles page: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=199847 it states:

"As stated above the cycles of HCG should be in the 2 to 3 week range with a least one month off in between, you could stretch your cycle out to four weeks without any major concern if you are using lower doses. One should however take care when using HCG as prolonged use could repress the body’s natural production of gonadotropins permanently, but this is mostly just pure speculation as it does not have yet to be reported nor has there been a case of an overdose. To be on the safe side shorter cycles of HCG seem to be that of the norm. Most users cycle HCG near the end of a steroid cycle, you should start your HCG therapy on the last week of your cycle. For best results you should also run nolva while you run HCG as taking HCG by itself will do little to nothing and gyno even though rare may also flair up. Once the HCG cycle is finished you continue with your usual clomid or nolvadex (preferably the latter) for pct as it is more effective when used in conjunction HCG for pct. With an AAS cycle of 6 to 10 weeks HCG may not be necessary unless extreme doses of AAS were used or there is an existing problem of testicular atrophy or you are running a heavy oral only cycle. AAS cycles of 12 or more weeks should have HCG as a part of post cycle plan."

I'm wondering if the cycling of HCG should still be implemented in order to keep from desensitizing too much? I'm not trying to start an argument, I'm just doing as much research as I can and saw 2 conflicting theories. I just want to know all angles of thought as to why I put different things in my body in the hopes of having the most successful and least long/short term side cycle I can. I like all the benefits listed in your theory, but wanted to check on the one possible downside I read about. As stated in my previous post, I'm in week 2 of my cycle and I am about to start the HCG protocol you listed, but I would like to know if I should cycle off the HCG for a couple weeks in the middle of the cycle?

Thanks