The Bible is a work of Fiction

[tryingtogetbig]

Like someone said above Tock...there are some things you just can't explain...but you still know that it is true for you.

Aheterosexual....Why are some people gay? There is no logic on why someone would prefer the same gender, it doesn't follow the logical course of nature. But yet, it does exist and people can't explain it. They have theories, but no hard core proof one way or the other.

I believe, and know in my heart, there is a something in this world more mighty and powerful than I...and some day I will have to settle up with that being. Granted, the logic doesn't add up for me, and I will probably always question many of the practices that are done in the name of the almighty...but I still believe.

Please don't anybody let this turn into a gay thread...just using it as an example.

peace,

ttgb

[Mart651]

Most gays and liberals can not believe in Christ or God. Their beliefs are against the preaching of the bible. why in the world would they want to or try to believe. As most in most religions homosexuality is wrong and has no place in their world. I can understand where Tock is coming from. He must go with the non believer side and as a smart guy he must find things to back up his beliefs.

I want to say a true christian excepts everyone for who they are and try to help them. Everyone knows that I have a long way to go before I can consider myself a good christian. I will try to except the fact that these beliefs are your choice and try my best to respect them. I am not a good debater and am not a very smart guy but if anyone here needs help with their faith or anything else. I am more than willing to try to find answers and help any way possible.


Tock this was not meant as a swing at you but I know your sexuality more than anyone elses. Believe what you want bro and I know you will. You can't believe the way I do or you would be admitting that your whole life has been wrong.

[Tock]

Most gays and liberals can not believe in Christ or God.
Their beliefs are against the preaching of the bible.

.

I have news for you, mon petite . . . most gays I've seen DO beleive in Christ and God. There are 11 gay churches here in Dallas, each one is jam pack full every Sunday. There are a couple gay Jewish groups, too, plus a contingent of gay Catholics; but it seems that a sizable percentage of the Catholic clergy are either gay or pederasts (like children).

And given that the "Liberal Democrats" shot down my proposal to Amend the Texas State Constutitution so that non-beleivers could be elected to public office, I'd say your comment is off the mark with liberals, too . . .
--Tock

[Devourer]

i really wish i had something to contribute to this thread seeing as i find this all very interesting...but im an idiot

[PurePower]

If you all would open your eyes you would see that Jesus is trying to talk to you right here, right now.

[spywizard]

Actually, the bible has been proven to be the most acurate book, with the least deviation throughout history... with less than .01 deviation in copying throughtout... when compared to the scrolls.........


Sometimes the only thing that can be done with a child that refuses to accept the truth... is to pray for mercy...........unfortunetly....

well.. i still have hope for those that are lost....................

[Tock]

1) Actually, the bible has been proven to be the most acurate book, with the least deviation throughout history... with less than .01 deviation in copying throughtout... when compared to the scrolls.........

1) I don't know that it has. But even if the copyists were 100% accurate, there is still no way Noah could have fit over 40,000 animals on that itty bitty Ark with food and water for 14 months. There is no way that over half the population of Egypt could have left the country with the Army in ruins, and no one recorded the event, other than the Jews in the Old Testament. There is no way that anyone ever rose from the dead and floated up into the stratosphere, into outer space, past Saturn and Pluto, past all the other stars and galaxies out there without a space suit and plenty of air.

Ya, it may have been copied ok, but the original was full of fiction.

--Tock

[spywizard]

An agnostic can't answer this simple question..

Why are we here.......... is this all there is???

Science has already proven that the information in the Bible is accurate...
If you believe it or not is of no real consequence to the world... only to your own soul..

1) I don't know that it has. But even if the copyists were 100% accurate, there is still no way Noah could have fit over 40,000 animals on that itty bitty Ark with food and water for 14 months. There is no way that over half the population of Egypt could have left the country with the Army in ruins, and no one recorded the event, other than the Jews in the Old Testament. There is no way that anyone ever rose from the dead and floated up into the stratosphere, into outer space, past Saturn and Pluto, past all the other stars and galaxies out there without a space suit and plenty of air.

Ya, it may have been copied ok, but the original was full of fiction.

--Tock

[Tock]

1) An agnostic can't answer this simple question..

a) Why are we here..........
b) is this all there is???


2) Science has already proven that the information in the Bible is accurate...
If you believe it or not is of no real consequence to the world... only to your own soul..

1) I don't know what agnostic you're talking about, but I'm an unbeleiver, and I can answer it:
a) We are here because the pre-existing conditions before and time of our birth made our presence here inevitable.
b) Yep. You can make up any fiction to compensate for your disappointment that there isn't any more, but I'd recommend you find your harmonious place in the universe and enjoy the time you have, because that's all you're gonna get.

--Tock

[Tock]

If you all would open your eyes you would see that Jesus is trying to talk to you right here, right now.

My eyes are open, but I don't see Jesus around anywhere.


Another question . . . If Jesus was Jewish, how come he had a Mexican name?
--Tock

[spywizard]

No your eyes are not open.... they are resentful to a society that rejects you, your way of life, and your ideals..

there for you hate it back..

and that is the real loss... because if someone didn't like you, you have to hate them right back..

My eyes are open, but I don't see Jesus around anywhere.


Another question . . . If Jesus was Jewish, how come he had a Mexican name?
--Tock

[Tock]

No your eyes are not open....

..

I can wholehearted assure you that I have my eyes wide open. If I didn't, I would not be able to respond to these posts.

Perhaps you mean to say something else?

--Tock

[50%Natural]

Another question . . . If Jesus was Jewish, how come he had a Mexican name?
--Tock

wow, that statement was almost as idiotic as your "we should have a seperate gay forum" comment. You got to be kidding me. Jesus, since you are always so politically correct, would be spanish. Not Mexican. People of mexican decent can be linked as can most all latin americans except with indian back ground to people of spain. Also, that is an english interpretation of his name anyway. And, Jesus is not pronounced jesus in spanish. It is Hey-zues. But anyway, it was a spanish derived name in our culture, it is safe to say it came from western europe. I recall the crusades running around about the 12 century if my history is correct and it would have been easy to spread that name as they fought in the name of the lord for their lands. Anyway, that is neither here nor there. You kinda let me down with your statement.

[Tock]

wow, that statement was almost as idiotic as your "we should have a seperate gay forum" comment. You got to be kidding me. Jesus, since you are always so politically correct, would be spanish. Not Mexican. People of mexican decent can be linked as can most all latin americans except with indian back ground to people of spain. Also, that is an english interpretation of his name anyway. And, Jesus is not pronounced jesus in spanish. It is Hey-zues. But anyway, it was a spanish derived name in our culture, it is safe to say it came from western europe. I recall the crusades running around about the 12 century if my history is correct and it would have been easy to spread that name as they fought in the name of the lord for their lands. Anyway, that is neither here nor there. You kinda let me down with your statement.

Looks like humor doesn't work too well in this medium, either . . .
--Tock . . .

[50%Natural]

Looks like humor doesn't work too well in this medium, either . . .
--Tock . . .

well, i'm laughing now if you meant it as a joke

[TheGame826]

Another question . . . If Jesus was Jewish, how come he had a Mexican name?
--Tock

ahaha sorry but that one made me laugh....

anyways on a serious note.... Ive studied many religions or should I say Beliefs throughout the past years. I have come up with a couple conclusions that I will throw out to you non-believers.

Sorry for Highjacking the thread but these are just simple facts.

First off many people of the world that are following "their" "God" are all following the same god. Most of the stories can be connected to each other despite the fact that they are of different religions. Also even Ghandi and Buddha believed in a "God". Ghandi who is considered one of your "free thinkers" believed in God. Just think about that for a minute. Why is it that all the stories and beliefs and followers can be connected to one.

There is fact that there was a man named of Jesus who was born in Bethlahem.
There is fact that Mary existed.
There is fact that a carpenter named Joseph existed.

Lets just go back to genisis for a moment. Since you want all these questions answered of how much fact was in the bible. The story of creation states that the world and all of its creatures were created in 7 days. And on the 7th day he rested. To us one day is 24 hours. Could you tell me how long one of gods days is? For all we know, 1 billion years to us, might be 1 day to god and god may still be resting.

Basically like what was said before it all comes down to failt. To believe in something so strongly is a very poweful thing. Do you believe in family? Do you believe in yourself? Do you believe in fate? Do you believe in God? are all questions you shoulnt be trying to answer in a matter of years of your life but in an entire lifetime.

Being a catholic, i know how us christians judge many others. If you dont like being judged by us christians, I can assure you most likely will not like being judged by St. Peter when you approach those curly gates.

All of your questions and your arguments are not questions of fact but of Faith!

[Tock]

1) ahaha sorry but that one made me laugh....

2) Being a catholic, i know how us christians judge many others. If you dont like being judged by us christians, I can assure you most likely will not like being judged by St. Peter when you approach those curly gates.

1) Well, it was supposed to be humor. Geez, you guys are starting to make me feel that I can't tell a joke . . .

2) Ah . . . yet another "Turn or Burn" comment. But what's the deal with those "curly gates?" Never heard of those before . . .

--Tock

[PurePower]

Yes...I pray every night to those who are "lost"

[Tock]

Yes...I pray every night to those who are "lost"

I think you mean "for those who are lost" . . .

Yes . . . and I have great hopes for those who have fallen into the intellect-crushing tentacles of theism . . . Perhaps exposing 'em to a bit of heresy every now and then might jog their minds back to reality . . .
--Tock

[Cycleon]

Honestly I can only snort with discust as every textual critisism stated in this thread of the bible (the most published book in history with surviving texts testing to the 2nd century) - are completely without ANY scholarly reference - mostly, i heard a rumor or read on a website that your momma's first cousins brothers wife has a fat ass and as for multiple gospels - sure there are - but almost all were forgeries tested to have been written during the middle ages - anyway, when you fellas want to have a REAL discussion - without letting your beliefs (that the bible is errant fiction) preset your studies - let me know and I might spend a little time to educate

[Tock]

1) Honestly I can only snort with discust as every textual critisism stated in this thread of the bible (the most published book in history with surviving texts testing to the 2nd century) - are completely without ANY scholarly reference

Who needs a scholarly reference when common sense will do?
Of course, if you really want me to provide references for what I said about Noah's Ark; it's size, number of mammals, reptiles, birds, insects, duration of the Ark's voyage, etc, I'll look 'em up. Some of it I got from the encyclopedia britannica, but I'm sure it's out there on the web, as well.
Any way you slice it, it's crazy.

--Tock

[Football_Bill]

Thank you all for your insite. I was baptised Episcopalian but have never really studyed or followed religion. Now at 26, I feel lost in my life and was looking to turn towards religion. But, I agree that religion gives you something to follow, and I am not a good follower or listener. After much debate, and reading all your thoughs, I label myself agnostic, not believe nor denying the exsistance of god, or better put, a higher being. But, I do feel the bible has some good lessons learned that should be studyed or followed, and that is what I am starting to do. The bible is like a life manual, not all subjects are needed by all people. I just need a little direction in my life, cause right now, I think I am already in hell.

[Tock]

Thank you all for your insite. I was baptised Episcopalian but have never really studyed or followed religion. Now at 26, I feel lost in my life and was looking to turn towards religion. But, I agree that religion gives you something to follow, and I am not a good follower or listener. After much debate, and reading all your thoughs, I label myself agnostic, not believe nor denying the exsistance of god, or better put, a higher being. But, I do feel the bible has some good lessons learned that should be studyed or followed, and that is what I am starting to do. The bible is like a life manual, not all subjects are needed by all people. I just need a little direction in my life, cause right now, I think I am already in hell.

You sound like you'd be at home at a Unitarian church. If there are any in your neck of the woods, I'd try it out.
http://www.uua.org/aboutuua/principles.html
--Tock

[Football_Bill]

So true, my lifestyle and actions over the past two years plus have made my life a "Living Hell", I am just trying to figure out how to make it "Heaven on Earth" again. (Again, like it ever was!)

Any suggestions, my own personal one is to quite smoking pot, but I keep doing it. The devil has possesed me, and he's a pothead

[PTbyJason]

So true, my lifestyle and actions over the past two years plus have made my life a "Living Hell", I am just trying to figure out how to make it "Heaven on Earth" again. (Again, like it ever was!)

Any suggestions, my own personal one is to quite smoking pot, but I keep doing it. The devil has possesed me, and he's a pothead

Bro, I'll offer you a challenge. It's been proven time and time again, and it's why those who believe in something we can't see, fight so hard for our beliefs. We are defending the unseen, there has to be a reason, right?

Do me a favor, spend a couple of minutes a day, when you get in your car, when you go to take a shower, etc.... Just say "God, I don't know if you are out there, but I need help getting my life straight. If you are out there, give me some direction." No one has to hear it except you and Him. Your life will get straightened out. You can thank God for that when it starts happening. It will be subtle and will look like it is just coincidences, but there is no doubt that God will be behind it. He doesn't swoop down and do things in an obvious way, but things will start coming together for you and your mind will start to clear. I know a couple of guys on this board that will testify to this that also don't quite know what the truth is. Give it a try, what do you have to lose?

[PurePower]

Right on ptbyjason

All you have to do is ask. He will listen i promise bro.

[Cycleon]

btw - I notice that the books of Josephus, written at the same time and briefly mentioning Jesus, are taken at face value and no one seems to suggest that it is a fiction - in spite of the fact that it corroberates MANY of the contextual historical facts that are in the 4 gospels

[Tock]

btw - I notice that the books of Josephus, written at the same time and briefly mentioning Jesus, are taken at face value and no one seems to suggest that it is a fiction - in spite of the fact that it corroberates MANY of the contextual historical facts that are in the 4 gospels

I understand there are several versions of Josephus' work. Some versions, the ones in posession of christian churches, do indeed mention Jesus, while other copies do not.
Ya, it seems the works of Josephus had been in Christian hands long enough for some monks to do some creative re-writing of those ancient texts so they would 'prove' the Bible right.

--Tock

[Cycleon]

I understand there are several versions of Josephus' work. Some versions, the ones in posession of christian churches, do indeed mention Jesus, while other copies do not.
Ya, it seems the works of Josephus had been in Christian hands long enough for some monks to do some creative re-writing of those ancient texts so they would 'prove' the Bible right.

--Tock

again, trying to make textual critisisms on rumors of falsified texts without any proof of it - why not go buy it on Amazon - no doubt the "christians" have completely fabricated that one too

I respect your intelligence Tock but you are going to need more than fairy tails for your arguments - next you are going to be telling me of the gospel of Barnabas I realize you wont change your mind, but at least make yourself look good by doing the research

[Cycleon]

Tock - sa to the ark - 3 things you may not have thought of:

a....Why is it that you are thinking that there were multiple forms of various species? we know that solar radiation has significant effect on mutations that may well have now become the wide varieties we see now - the bible makes reference to a water vapor canopy likely along the lines of a type of ozone layer that colapsed and probably previously protected inhabitants from radiation - that also may be why things and people are noted to have lived much longer before the flood. That would be a lot less animals to bring on. much that we see now could be due to evolutionary mutation subsequent to the flood. And since the ark was at least 450 feet long it could hold the animals if significant provisions were not required and especially if they slept (taking less space).

b.....they could have survived by going into a hibernative state such as bears do - granted this would have had to been caused by God but is not a great stretch of capability.

c....gopher wood, which is what is mentioned as the component of the ark - only recently has been understood - it is not from a "gopher tree" - rather it is a crude form of kevlar - basically wood that is treated with a type of tar that makes it honeycomb - strong as steel by weight but still floating - we have reproduced this now and it is very usefull even todays standards - we do not know if it was the same as we have reproduced but assume that it was something along similar lines - which is backed up when it says that noah covered the boat in pitch.

[Tock]

Tock - sa to the ark - 3 things you may not have thought of:

a....Why is it that you are thinking that there were multiple forms of various species?

b) the bible makes reference to a water vapor canopy likely along the lines of a type of ozone layer that colapsed and probably previously protected inhabitants from radiation - that also may be why things and people are noted to have lived much longer before the flood. That would be a lot less animals to bring on. much that we see now could be due to evolutionary mutation subsequent to the flood. And since the ark was at least 450 feet long it could hold the animals if significant provisions were not required and especially if they slept (taking less space).

b.....they could have survived by going into a hibernative state such as bears do - granted this would have had to been caused by God but is not a great stretch of capability.

c....gopher wood, which is what is mentioned as the component of the ark - only recently has been understood - it is not from a "gopher tree" - rather it is a crude form of kevlar - basically wood that is treated with a type of tar that makes it honeycomb - strong as steel by weight but still floating - we have reproduced this now and it is very usefull even todays standards - we do not know if it was the same as we have reproduced but assume that it was something along similar lines - which is backed up when it says that noah covered the boat in pitch.

a) Did I mention anything about "multiple forms of various species?" I don't think so.

b) Isn't it odd how this "water canopy" escaped the notice of Bible Scholars for the past 1500 years? It seems to me this "canopy" is more likely the recent interpretation of fundamentalists in a desperate attempt to stand in the way of further scientific progress -- the progress of the science of evolution.

Yah, I've heard of this "water canopy" notion, and smarter eggheads than I seem to think the amount of heat necessary to vaporize the amount of water in this theory would more or less leave the surface of the earth in burnt cinders. Unfortunately, that's about the extent of my understanding. But I do know the "water canopy" notion is strongly supported by the Institute for Creation Research in California
http://www.icr.org/
which also supports the notion that two of every dinosaur (tryanosaurus rex, brontosaurus, stegasaurus, etc etc) were packed away on Noah's ark along with all the other animals.
So these nuts are saying that dinosaurs, along with Noah, existed about 6000 years ago. They used to have a picture book showing a brontosaurus sticking his head out the window of the Ark (a friend of mine has a copy of it), but
here's one of their books saying Adam and Eve lived with dinosaurs:
http://www.icr.org/page/001/PROD/15/BDIED1
Anyway, the folks who work according to the Scientific Method, the guys who brought us electric lights and automobiles and computers and AS and other wonder drugs and CD players and all sorts of technological wonders (with a pretty good reliability record) say that dinosaurs were pretty much extinct a few millions years before 4000 BC.
On the other hand, Christian theologians, the folks who brought us the medeival dark ages, and the Inquisition, and several Crusades, and the Salem Witch Trials, censored those who disagreed with the Church doctrine that the Earth is the Center of the Universe, Sunday Blue Laws, fought against democracy and supported slavery, and now oppose equal rights for gays and lesbians, Yah, these nuts with their long-established record for stupidity and opposition to intellectual freedom and individual rights, these people say dinosaurs existed 6000 years ago, and lots of these bloodthirsty monsters occupied space on Noah's ark along with mammals, birds, reptiles, and insects.
Yah, right . . .

b) "They could have" done this, "they could have done that." Well, maybe they were all shrunk down to 6 inches tall, or maybe Noah was turned into a giant so he could handle the big dinosaurs, or maybe all the animals were given the ability to hover above the rainclouds, or maybe all the animals were temporarily turned into newts, or maybe this or maybe that . . .
That is nothing but speculation. It is NOT what the Bible says actually happened. And this is nothing but a typical tactic fundamentalists use to wriggle around the issues they can't find more reasonable rationailizations to explain.
Maybe Jesus didn't really rise from the dead, but it was just a hallucination?
Maybe Jesus and Mary Magdalene had a Krispy Kreme donut shop in Palestine betwen age 15 and 29. Hey, if God willed it, then God could have made it happen! This would expain a lot of things . . . Or, this would be just a lame piece of BS, like any other "God Could Have" or "It Could Have Happened This Way."
Please . . . don't insult my intelligence . . .
Stick to the text, don't be adding to it or taking anything away from it, because as you know,
" . . . if any man shall take away from the words of this book God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." Rev. 22:19.

c) gopher wood has "only recently been understood?" And it's like Kevlar?
Nuts!!!
Look, according to what the Bible said, the Ark had about 2.5 acres of total available floor space.. There is no way you can fit food and water to feed all those animals AND dinosaurs (as some fundamentalist leaders say) on the Ark for 14 long months.
It is absurd to think it could be done. The story is ONLY a story; a work of fiction; a folk tale of the ancient Hebrews.

And that's that.

--Tock

[50%Natural]

true. A dog can know if it did something bad. But there are limitations to what an animal knows or could do. I wouldn't ever compare that to an animal. Like i said, that is just what I feel. I know when something is right or wrong. Yeah, your parents can say don't do this or don't do that but what about things when you are young that happen and you feel bad? That is what i'm talking about. I have always had a deep and heavy concience. I feel that is something that is instilled in all of us to help us to have faith and stay strong. You can think all you want, but that is just me, lets get that straight alright?

[bermich]

Im still laughing at the Arch story and hybronation and maybe this and maybe that. I think Tock tore apart the arch theory.

To answer "Why are we here?" Why does there have to be a reason. Its just evolution. Its also PURE LUCK that we are still here. 93 percent of Earth's species are extinct. That means Earth has a 7 percent success rate in evolution. Not very good statistics.

[Grant]

Im still laughing at the Arch story and hybronation and maybe this and maybe that. I think Tock tore apart the arch theory.

To answer "Why are we here?" Why does there have to be a reason. Its just evolution. Its also PURE LUCK that we are still here. 93 percent of Earth's species are extinct. That means Earth has a 7 percent success rate in evolution. Not very good statistics.

attributing "life" to luck is absurd

[tryingtogetbig]

Tock...isn't everything in life done out of fear in some form or fashion. If I don't work out hard enough, then I fear I won't get very big. If I speed, then I fear I will get a ticket. If I don't cook, then I fear that I will starve to death. I could go on and on....doesn't that make your arguement regarding fear as a motivator obsolete? Prove me wrong....

[Tock]

Tock...isn't everything in life done out of fear in some form or fashion. If I don't work out hard enough, then I fear I won't get very big. If I speed, then I fear I will get a ticket. If I don't cook, then I fear that I will starve to death. I could go on and on....doesn't that make your arguement regarding fear as a motivator obsolete? Prove me wrong....

There is motivation by fear, and motivation by pleasure. That's pretty much what all motivation boils down to.
You anticipate the happy results that come from wise application of proper workouts, nutrition, and rest, so you are motivated by the pleasure associated with the fruits of your labor.
Or . . . if you are the property of some ancient wench with droopy tits and wrinkles deep as the Grand Canyon, and she pokes you with a cattle prod if she thinks you are not working out hard enough, the anticipation of further pain could motivate you to greater efforts in the gym in order to avoid the pain.

There . . . I suppose you've been proved wrong. Fear is not the only motivator. It's commonly used by people who don't know any better, who don't realize they can get better results with pleasure.

Almost all dog training done by people who know about such things is done with "positive reinforcement" only. Bosses who motivate their employees with fear won't get out of them what they could if they used a system of rewards. Parents who bully their children into submission will create kids full of resentment, not kids who are prepared to deal with the real world as adults.

Yah, there's much more to motivation than just Fear. Old-Time bible Thumpers use it a lot because they don't know any better, and don't have any better arguments. It's a seriously flawed book, unworthy of reverence and worship.

--Tock

[tryingtogetbig]

There is motivation by fear, and motivation by pleasure. That's pretty much what all motivation boils down to.
You anticipate the happy results that come from wise application of proper workouts, nutrition, and rest, so you are motivated by the pleasure associated with the fruits of your labor.
Or . . . if you are the property of some ancient wench with droopy tits and wrinkles deep as the Grand Canyon, and she pokes you with a cattle prod if she thinks you are not working out hard enough, the anticipation of further pain could motivate you to greater efforts in the gym in order to avoid the pain.

There . . . I suppose you've been proved wrong. Fear is not the only motivator. It's commonly used by people who don't know any better, who don't realize they can get better results with pleasure.

Almost all dog training done by people who know about such things is done with "positive reinforcement" only. Bosses who motivate their employees with fear won't get out of them what they could if they used a system of rewards. Parents who bully their children into submission will create kids full of resentment, not kids who are prepared to deal with the real world as adults.

Yah, there's much more to motivation than just Fear. Old-Time bible Thumpers use it a lot because they don't know any better, and don't have any better arguments. It's a seriously flawed book, unworthy of reverence and worship.

--Tock

Nope....there can still be holes punched in that theory....

Maybe you do something for "fear" of not having pleasure....everything we do in life is out of fear in some form or fashion....to say that we are constantly trying to learn how to minimize our fears is acceptable....some of our fears are greater than others....I fear that by not pushing myself in the gym I will not be able to enjoy the fruits of my labor as much as if I had worked harder.

So, to throw around that religion is based on "fear" is a true statement. Facing our fears in life is what makes us all better intellects. But to say that "fear" of god is crazy and misguided...well, every person will believe what they want....to each their own.

ttgb

[bermich]

Not everythign in life is done out of fear. That would mean you are fearful your entire life and all your goals are based from fear. Love is not based on fear. I can see where the argument would go and you could use "out of fear" for anything so the argument is pointless
For instance: You love out of the fear of being alone. You have children out of the fear of, I dont know. But you see the point. Life is not based on fear.

[Tock]

Another piece of fiction from the Bible . . . the Story of the Talking Serpent

Genesis, Chapter 2, verses 1-5:

1 Now the serpent Rev. 12.9 ; 20.2 was more subtile than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 but of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

-------------------------

Of course, Serpents can't talk. Hiss, maybe, but talk? Nope.
They can no more talk than they can ride bicycles.
Lots of folk tales and other fiction include talking animals; like the "Story of the Hare and the Tortise," "Goldilocks and the Three Bears," and "The Three Billy Goats Gruff." And of course you'll all remember Mr Ed, TV's talking horse?

Well anyway, if people are supposed to beleive every word of the Bible is true, someone better be prepared to satisfactorily 'splain to all of us just how a serpent, lacking vocal cords and the other associated physiology to support speech could have said all that to Eve.
Elsewise, we can mark that up as "just more fiction."

--Tock

[PTbyJason]

Tock there are a lot of things in life that God does, that cannot be explained. There are healings, there are people who prophesize, there are people who speak in tounges, and someone across the room who has never met this person can interpret it. With God all things are possible. In relation to that particular story, I would have to do more research on it to see if it was literal or figurative. But God has done things that man will never be able to explain, so it is possible that the serpent spoke. You don't have to believe it, and I don't think you will because you didn't see it with your own eyes. I, myself, tried to explain away everything that God was doing at one time. I came up with excuse after excuse and finally realized that I was running out of excuses for things. God does things that cannot be explained sometimes, and you can pick it apart and call it nonsense if you want, or you can believe. But eventually, just as I did, you will run out of excuses.