hCG and Pregnenolone; What you should know.

[zdudezdud]

ok well I ordered the patches from ageforce suppose I can say that since one of the sponsors sells the product. Well, I had a question and I emailed them asking what percentage of the DHEA + Pregnenolone are absorbed from the patch. They email me back and say 98% I email back asking how they know this for sure? Ask if they have any studies to confirm this as many TD patches only deliver a small amount of product which is the reason there is more mg in the actual patch than is delivered. Anyway Steve from ageforce sent me this email back
"We are not going to get into an email debate with you. If you would like to learn more about this and how we make our claim, please give us a call, or we can call you if that is your preference"

So of course I call him and I am treated as rude as I have ever been treated by any company, Steve was very nasty when I asked for studies or some solid information about the percent of delivery. So this is my story with ageforce.

[zdudezdud]

Good point and that is what I was thinking but I'm going to give the patch a try for a month or so and get some bloods and I'll report back.

[robkar]

hello, i am new and was told that i might get good advice on this thread,

i am 35 years old, 5 foot 7 and 280 pounds. i was 305 but was on hgh for a bit ( off shore black market ) and lost a few pounds. i went to a doctor and he started me on 100 mg per week testosterone. i have been doin it for 3 weeks and he uped it to 200mg (100mg twice a week) and also gave me cytomel 25mg per day. i will be starting the hcg diet tomorrow. 500 cal per day thing.

i was curios if this was a good combo? wasnt really tested yet except for normal blood work. does this sound right? or should i up my test? any help would be appreciated.

thanks.

[SlimmerMe]

^^ Rob this is a stickie and not the area I was suggesting. Go back to this main page of this forum so your thread is posted underneath the red ones which are stickies and start a thread specifically for you.

Does this make sense?

[robkar]

haha,, at this point nothing makes sense,,, wow, i am so lost when it comes to forums, haha... thank you so much for guiding me,, ill get it sooner or later, ha...


ok, lets try this again.

[fm2002]

GD,

About two years ago I had a full, full BW done and a very well known HRT doc told me among other things that my Preg was low. I just moved and can't find all my folders with all my BW's or I would tell you how low. Anyway he prescribed Preg cream, but than in passing he mentioned don't use too much as it can cause hair loss. Is this true and was I an asshole for not using it at all for this reason. Also if my Preg levels were just slightly low could hcg supplementation raise them enough? Lastly, the hcg protocol you mention only stretches out to every 7th day of T shots. What if one is doing T shots every 10th day?

My protocol as pertains to this discussion
150mg Test Eth IM every 10 days
250iu hcg Sub Q 9th and 10th day
1/2mg Arimidex every 4th day
50mg DHEA EOD

[steroid.com 1]

Lots going on with your post and you're working with a Doc who is not trained properly.

Let's start with Pregnenolone cream; it does not cause hair lose no matter how you take it. He's confusing it with transdermal Testosterone gels/creams that can interact with SQ Aromatase enzymes and for some men this converts to higher levels of DHT which causes hair loss.

I've never heard of this happening with Pregnenlone as it too far upstream from that to happen.

I used to be a believer in transdermal Preg and DHEA creams but for me it didn't work well and was expensive (probably didn't absorb well and there are papers out there that indicate that both probably don't absorb well enough to get serum levels to optimal levels so I am back on pills that are micronized...at least for me).

HCG is not going to raise your preg or DHEA levels enough as both need to be at the high end of the reference range...especially DHEA.

OP:
My protocol as pertains to this discussion
150mg Test Eth IM every 10 days
Need to go to at least every 7 days and better twice a week...learn about Testosterone half life.

250iu hcg Sub Q 9th and 10th day
Too far out but it's tied to your every 10 day Test injection. He's spreading you too far out by a few days but it adds up.

1/2mg Arimidex every 4th day
This seems really excessive. An AI like Arimidex is a very powerful antagonist and .5mg every 4 days on just 150mg of Test every ten days is probably tanking your E2 levels...can you post most recent BW?

50mg DHEA EOD
Add in 50mg of Preg as well and make sure the DHEA is micronized.

[fm2002]

Lots going on with your post and you're working with a Doc who is not trained properly.

Let's start with Pregnenolone cream; it does not cause hair lose no matter how you take it. He's confusing it with transdermal Testosterone gels/creams that can interact with SQ Aromatase enzymes and for some men this converts to higher levels of DHT which causes hair loss.

I've never heard of this happening with Pregnenlone as it too far upstream from that to happen.

I used to be a believer in transdermal Preg and DHEA creams but for me it didn't work well and was expensive (probably didn't absorb well and there are papers out there that indicate that both probably don't absorb well enough to get serum levels to optimal levels so I am back on pills that are micronized...at least for me).

HCG is not going to raise your preg or DHEA levels enough as both need to be at the high end of the reference range...especially DHEA.

OP:
My protocol as pertains to this discussion
150mg Test Eth IM every 10 days
Need to go to at least every 7 days and better twice a week...learn about Testosterone half life.

250iu hcg Sub Q 9th and 10th day
Too far out but it's tied to your every 10 day Test injection. He's spreading you too far out by a few days but it adds up.

1/2mg Arimidex every 4th day
This seems really excessive. An AI like Arimidex is a very powerful antagonist and .5mg every 4 days on just 150mg of Test every ten days is probably tanking your E2 levels...can you post most recent BW?

50mg DHEA EOD
Add in 50mg of Preg as well and make sure the DHEA is micronized.

Thanks for the reply

Everything I read says Testosterone Enanthate half life is 10.5 days

The hcg I added myself w/o consulting my doc, which I haven't seen in some time. Will be seeing him in May when I'm back in the states.

I'll keep looking for my folders which have all my BW's and if I find will post.

Should the Preg be micronized as well?

[steroid.com 1]

"Should the Preg be micronized as well"?

Yes, not easy to find, but Google it and you will find it.

[fm2002]

"Should the Preg be micronized as well"?

Yes, not easy to find, but Google it and you will find it.

Got my micronized DHEA and Preg. I'm alternating between the 2 so each one EOD. One big observation I have is on the Preg days I'm urinating alot more. Could this be from the Preg. I haven't changed anything else. I'm not complaining actually enjoying my body drying up.

[fm2002]

GD,

I've had 3 2x250iu hcg injections. I'm still on a Test Eth 10 day cycle. I also cut back on my Arimidex from 1/2 every 4th day to 1/4. I should of just changed one at a time to isolate cause and affect, but that said I've have felt a noticeable difference. More overall energy, better performance in the weight room. Libido about the same or a bit down. Negatives have been a bit grumpy/agitated, haven't ever been a good sleeper, but even more so now and acne has come back. I'm guessing most of this is attributed to the hcg except may be the acne which could be both. The difference is so much I'm thinking of cutting my Test Eth from 150 to 125.

Your thoughts

P.S. Found a reputable source for DHEA and Preg. Both micronized.

[steroid.com 1]

GD,

I've had 3 2x250iu hcg injections. I'm still on a Test Eth 10 day cycle. I also cut back on my Arimidex from 1/2 every 4th day to 1/4. I should of just changed one at a time to isolate cause and affect, but that said I've have felt a noticeable difference. More overall energy, better performance in the weight room. Libido about the same or a bit down. Negatives have been a bit grumpy/agitated, haven't ever been a good sleeper, but even more so now and acne has come back. I'm guessing most of this is attributed to the hcg except may be the acne which could be both. The difference is so much I'm thinking of cutting my Test Eth from 150 to 125.

Your thoughts

P.S. Found a reputable source for DHEA and Preg. Both micronized.

Time for blood work...anything I tell you now if pure speculation.

I want to see E2 serum levels after your comments to be honest.

[fm2002]

Time for blood work...anything I tell you now if pure speculation.

I want to see E2 serum levels after your comments to be honest.

You and I both. It's difficult where I live now to get the proper BW's done.

But I'm here to tell you that I know my body and have been working out for quite some time and something happen !

[steroid.com 1]

You and I both. It's difficult where I live now to get the proper BW's done.

But I'm here to tell you that I know my body and have been working out for quite some time and something happen !

Totally agree.

Start a new thread when you get BW and the boys will jump in fm.

gd

[Tbone1970]

im on HRT and what G said coudnlt be said any better

[Tbone1970]

anyone get any muscle aches for GHRP 6 ?

[likelifting]

I've read a couple of different places that peeps don't inject HCG on Test injection days. Why?

[cajun269]

Thanks for the very informative info. I had traveled to Lab in Nevada for a complete or as it is called "executive physical" took all day and was ran through the mill.
Kind of a pricey but for my health I need to get a broad view of my health. I am not endorsing them, but I am saying that they do have a full protocol and look at
the whole picture. From what you eat, what you take for health reasons, sleep patterns, WB and genetic screening in my case.

[steroid.com 1]

Fellows, this is a sticky and the discussions should center on the topic.

Start a new thread for other discussions off topic.

Thank you,

gd

[MajorPectorial]

Jú$T â Qúíçk ôÑë.

ôÑ mý FíR$T çýçしë.

2Ml RôÐ Të$T 400.

Rëâ$ôÑ í'm þô$TíÑg HëRë â$ âþâRT FRôm THë ôßVíôú$ gëTTíÑg ßíggëR. (people HâVë çômmëÑTëÐ). âÑÐ þúT ôÑ âßôúT HâしF â $TôÑë Tô THRëë QúâRTëR ôF â âTôÑë.

í HâVë HâÐ Ñô þRôßしëm âT âしし wíTH $þëRm. ßý âmôúÑT $ëëÑ ßý ëýë âTしëâ$T. í'Vë çHëçkëd âÑÐ ÑôT ÑôTíçëÐ âÑý change íÑ $íZë. âÑÐ RëgúしâRしý HâVë $ë× â$ wë kÑôw THë âçTíVë $íÐë Ðôë$ ú$úâししý íÑçRëâ$ë. Jú$T wâÑÐëRíÑg íF íT'$ ÑôRmâし Tô ÑôT HâVë çômë âçRô$$ ÑëgâTíVë $íÐë$ Ñ $HôúしÐÑ'T í $Tíしし しôôk âT ÐHëâ âÑÐ Hçg TRëâTmëÑT$. í ímâgíÑë í'Ð gëT THí$ FRôm $âmë $ôúRçë

ýë$.THë Të×T í$ âÑÑôýíÑg. í âþôしôgíZë. $ô þしZ. Ðon T TRôしし më. しôし Jú$T Tâkë$ â wHíしë Tô çHâÑgë. ôH. í'm 6'3. 32. TRâíÑëÐ ôÑ Ñ ôFF $íÑçë 15. ÑëâRしý môÑTH íÑTô çýçしë.16.1/2 $TôÑë þRë mâkë âしし mëâし$ (ßôRíÑg ýë$. ëFFëçTíVë ÐëFíÑíTëしý )
.

[MuscleInk]

Jú$T â Qúíçk ôÑë.

ôÑ mý FíR$T çýç?ë.

2Ml RôÐ Të$T 400.

Rëâ$ôÑ í'm þô$TíÑg HëRë â$ âþâRT FRôm THë ôßVíôú$ gëTTíÑg ßíggëR. (people HâVë çômmëÑTëÐ). âÑÐ þúT ôÑ âßôúT Hâ?F â $TôÑë Tô THRëë QúâRTëR ôF â âTôÑë.

í HâVë HâÐ Ñô þRôß?ëm âT â?? wíTH $þëRm. ßý âmôúÑT $ëëÑ ßý ëýë âT?ëâ$T. í'Vë çHëçkëd âÑÐ ÑôT ÑôTíçëÐ âÑý change íÑ $íZë. âÑÐ Rëgú?âR?ý HâVë $ë× â$ wë kÑôw THë âçTíVë $íÐë Ðôë$ ú$úâ??ý íÑçRëâ$ë. Jú$T wâÑÐëRíÑg íF íT'$ ÑôRmâ? Tô ÑôT HâVë çômë âçRô$$ ÑëgâTíVë $íÐë$ Ñ $Hôú?ÐÑ'T í $Tí?? ?ôôk âT ÐHëâ âÑÐ Hçg TRëâTmëÑT$. í ímâgíÑë í'Ð gëT THí$ FRôm $âmë $ôúRçë

ýë$.THë Të×T í$ âÑÑôýíÑg. í âþô?ôgíZë. $ô þ?Z. Ðon T TRô?? më. ?ô? Jú$T Tâkë$ â wHí?ë Tô çHâÑgë. ôH. í'm 6'3. 32. TRâíÑëÐ ôÑ Ñ ôFF $íÑçë 15. ÑëâR?ý môÑTH íÑTô çýç?ë.16.1/2 $TôÑë þRë mâkë â?? mëâ?$ (ßôRíÑg ýë$. ëFFëçTíVë ÐëFíÑíTë?ý )
.

WTF is this!?! ^^^^^

[MajorPectorial]

?ô?.!!!

Better?. ;-)

[MajorPectorial]

Hmm. Noticed it don't like the L's... all the? At L's

[MuscleInk]

Hmm. Noticed it don't like the L's... all the? At L's

Looking better. Might want to repost the initial comment.

[MajorPectorial]

K. Basically.
Age 32. Height 6ft3inhes. 16 and 1/2 stone (roughly) as put on stone n half since I started back in april/may the m as in part of that within cycle n Just b4. I pre make my meals for three days at a time to ensure they contain all I need as don't like relying on supplement apart from adding two multi vit tabs n two cod liver oil tab a day.

I have had ur usual feel more alert in the am when waking up. Stronger and larger quicker. Noticed by third parties. Apart from nipples sliiiightly more sensitive. As yet no bad sides at all.

No Change in size down below. Go like a Jack rabbit n blast everyone Time no problem. Is this due to it being first cycle?. Or should I expect this for a while. should I ask my source for dhea hcg as a preventative?. I really do want to keep costs down. But will do when as ness np.

Bloody shoulder playing up again tho. Rotator cuff. Taking zopiclone to sleep. Tramadol for pain. Atenolol to regulate heart beat. Diclofenac as anti-inflammatory we which h were helps a bit. Neeeever quite goes tho.

Any going off topic. Just stating person pop n experience no probably Just on test right now. But the other two prods look like a must. Thank

[txheadshaver]

i have a 5 ML syringe that came with my mixing kit. Just got 5000IU HCG. I added 1 ML sterile water and mixed. Then I added another 1 ML sterile.
Correct?

[Rusty11]

Next time, I would use bac. water. Bac water keeps the hcg "good" for a much longer amount of time. Sterile water is fine if you'll be using the entire vial in a week, or so. Bac water keeps up to six weeks. I've read where ppl have loaded up their syringes(mixed with sterile water), then put them in the freezer. But, wait for the experts to chime in.

[jm100]

Did anyone have issues actually getting the prescription for at-home use? My doctor said that he was fine prescribing pregnyl and having me do it at home, but the nurse called a week later and said when she talked to the pharmacist they said I'd have to have all the shots done in-office (which, in addition to being a pain, doesn't really work since the doc prescribed the 'textbook' dose on the package insert of 2000iu 3x a week which is way more than I want so I was going to do ~250iu 3 times a week anyways, but I can't exactly lower the dose if I have to go into the office for all my shots)

Is there a reason they'd make you go into the office for it?

[fireeater49]

Just spent the time reading this whole postings and I must say that I do appreciate the knowledge out there. I had some Dhea questions that I was going to post but it was already answered. G Devine- man I appreciate you spilling your knowledge. I know it must be a pain to spend time answering the never ending questions but it is well appreciated. Thanks to all my brothers from another mothers.

[steroid.com 1]

Why are you alternating EOD with each?

Take 50 mg of both daily as it's what your androgen pathway needs.

I've never hear of preg being a diuretic.

[fm2002]

Why are you alternating EOD with each?

Take 50 mg of both daily as it's what your androgen pathway needs.

I've never hear of preg being a diuretic.

Are you saying one HAS to take both together? Synergy at work here?

My thought process was to start slow for a few months and get my blood tested (scheduled for April) and see where I'm at.

[DeeJay7211]

Hey GD what if someone has very low CHOL, how does this effect all the hormones? Last 10-15 yrs or so, my TTL has never been over 100. I never knew that all the hormones were directly synthesized from CHOL. I've been lurking for few days. Unbelievable amount of information... Thanks.

[steroid.com 1]

Hey GD what if someone has very low CHOL, how does this effect all the hormones? Last 10-15 yrs or so, my TTL has never been over 100. I never knew that all the hormones were directly synthesized from CHOL. I've been lurking for few days. Unbelievable amount of information... Thanks.

Every single hormone in your body is synthesized from CHOL into Pregnenolone via the p450 scc.

It's why we need CHOL at normalized levels and why a man on a TRT Protocol needs to back fill the pathways with the supplementation of 50 mg of micronized Pregenenole and DHEA daily.

[hackskii]

I would like to add a few things here if I may.
HCG is an LH analog but does not act like LH, in non hypogonadal men, HCG has a biphasic role in that testosterone spikes from 2 to 7 hours and there is a second spike at 48 to 72 hours, this is why the dosing is EOD to E3D.
Not so with hypogonadal men, only one spike is between 48 and 72 hours, many studies on this.

Also, DHEA is one hormone that when supplemented does not lower endogenous levels.
That said, unlike women where DHEA can spike testosterone, DHEA in men can elevate estrogen.
So, 25mg was recommended to me by my doc and he suggested me not take more than that due to estrogen conversion.
Not all men will need DHEA as well.

The estrogen deal with HCG is simple, I was looking at studies the other day on its application for intratesticular testosterone, and this is from 40 to 80 times that of serum testosterone.
At doses of 500iu this will keep ITT well within range.
HCG can give you gyno symptoms with just 1000iu shot the very next day.
I remember a study that suggested nolvadex will protect leydig cells from desensitization for those guys that want to lets say restart their HPTA.

I would like to add that I was diagnosed low in vitamin D, and suggested taking 4000iu vitamin D ED.
I found some 5000iu Vitamin D gel caps and started taking that.
First thing I noticed was night time erections, being 53 they were not too common anymore.
After just the second day, I actually had a sex dream.
I know D is important for test production and sunlight can make testosterone go up by 128%.
My doctor said that 2 out of every 3 people he checks is low in D.

Nice thread by the way, I had more to input but have to leave work now.

[steroid.com 1]

Great post!

Stay active in the forum.

gd

[AlterEdge78]

Gdevine, thank you for all of the useful information. I'm currently on testim gel, so I was gona begin administering 100 ii daily since I'm in shutdown. Will that kick me out of shutdown, and make me fertile again like I used to be. I've been shutdown for about 3 months now. And I'm guessing you cycle the hcg, like 4 weeks on, then break for a few months?

[steroid.com 1]

Gdevine, thank you for all of the useful information. I'm currently on testim gel, so I was gona begin administering 100 ii daily since I'm in shutdown. Will that kick me out of shutdown, and make me fertile again like I used to be. I've been shutdown for about 3 months now. And I'm guessing you cycle the hcg, like 4 weeks on, then break for a few months?

HCG keeps the testicles functioning and replaces LH which production is halted due to HPTA suppression.

HCG does not keep HPTA intact per se; it keeps the testes functioning, which is critical for so many reasons, and provides the body with hormonal balance and optimization as the HCG is essentially back filling all the pathways.

Keep in mind, we have LH receptors throughout our body, not just on the leydig cells of the testes; so there is even more reason to add it on all TRT protocols.

Time to get with the time!!!

Read the sticky on HCG...it's all in there.

[Moparman]

My doc said take the hcg every other day. 250 iu

[steroid.com 1]

This is a sticky and not for this type of post; please read the member forum rules in the stickies at the top of the forum or in my signature below.

Start a new thread with this same information and you will get the responses you want.

[ctenosaura]

Ive been doing 250iu's HCG twice a week on a 2x a week t-cyp program. Considering 200iu's HCG 3x a week. Would this be better than what I'm doing now?
Thanks