-XL
jing jai
Have only read till your post so far. But I want to say re: sleep problems - I'm not running T4 w/HGH, just HGH. EVERY time I've run it before bed (usually inside 45 minutes of trying to sleep) I can't sleep. Toss n turn all night. I tried every other night to double check and each night I used... terrible sleep. WHY?
The difference was I got to eat prior to sleep on nights I didn't pin... protein shake, chicken/beef etc. I've always eaten at night. I've since given up on night pinning and pin at 5am (about 1 hour before I actually get up). Someone have an idea as to why this happens?
Yeah - When I DID pin on the sleepless nights, I actually dosed off slightly quite a few times but it was like I was still awake with the craziest vivid dreams. Ones that I actually could control (as I believe I was still awake somewhat).
Ya know - This is actually nice in the fact that it makes me believe I've got real stuff. Funny how I will welcome and like in some sort of sick way painful knuckes and arms falling asleep all the time. If I had these things when I wasn't taking anything I'd be calling the doc scared that I was dying from some heart disease etc. LOL.
Lucky you BJJ - You're getting good sleep with just the HGH before sleep? Everyone IS different to some extent.
Were you a good "sleeper" prior to HGH? (I was not at all)
I am a trader so from 1995 till the end of 2007 I slept very good lol *except the year 2000 and the 9/11 period.
So, to answer your question, I was a good sleeper but since 2.5 years I am not anymore unfortunately.
HGH is helping me for sure but I do not want to screw up my hypophysis so I will stop soon injecting before bed.
If you refer to the fact that we both cannot sleep on T4, I believe it has something to do with ourselves only. I mean some respond in one way some in another. The deal is to figure out what works for you.
In any case, I solved my problem taking T4 between breakfst and luch, of course on an empty stomach.
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how about jintropin aq liquid pen is it as good as they say any one try humatropin and jintropin aq liquid if so which is better
AQ pens are supposed to be better than powder because they have never been subjected to the freeze-drying lyophilization process which is known to damage HGH potency.
They are convienent and easy to use but for me they price outweighs the benefits, I would rather pay less, reconstitute and get a lot more!
Cant comment on which brand is better as I have only used Jin.
-XL
jing jai
great thread here guys, altho im new here and really only lurk notsmall knows me from over on ukiron.
I have ran gh only this year during my contest pre and now i am running it during pct. during prep i ran it at 4iu pre bed and this seemed to work a treat. i was advised to do this by the guy who helped me prep from the usa and helps quite a few top level guys. i came in very good condition IMO and i believe growth played a major part in this.
Now during pct i am running the same brand but decided to run it in the am injected IM 10 mins pre cardio. this is 5 on 2 off. on off days i am running ghrp6 at 150mcg x 3 per day.
Im sat here now with tingles in my left shoulder and thats were i did the jab this am. however i had the same tingles when shooting pre bed. to be honest im not noticing any difference.
I have enough to run for another 6 weeks so i will continue in the am for another 2 weeks then switch to pre bed IM for 4 weeks and see if i notice any difference. so far it seems not. alot of guys on uk-muscle were i post mainly have tried split doses/pre bed and in the am and no1 seems to notice much difference.
below is a good study tho showing eod shots or 3 x weekly which i intend to run funds allowing when i start bulking after pct
STUDY, demonstrating positive body composition changes in highly trained athletes w/ 2g/kg per day protein intake & 8iu of GH 3x per week (EOD), w/ no other compounds.
NOTE: Protropin 1mg = 3iu or 1iu = 333mcg
EOD dose (3x per week) in the following study: 2.67mg or 8iu
Weekly total dose = 8mg or 24iu
Summary results:
FFW = fat free Weight
FW = fat Weight
Body composition response to exogenous GH during training in highly conditioned adults, D. M. Crist, J Appl Physiol 65: 579-584, 1988
Intro:
The effects of biosynthetic methionyl-human growth hormone (met-hGH) on body composition and endogenous secretion of growth hormone (GH) and insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) were studied in eight well-trained exercising adults between 22 and 33 yr of age for 6 weeks.
Dosing & Administration:
The met-hGH (experimental) treatment consisted of 8.0 mg (2 U/mg) per week of methGH (Protropin; Genentech, San Francisco, CA), which was divided into three doses (2.67 mg/dose) and delivered on alternate days (3 days/wk) in 0.5 ml of bacteriostatic diluent. Because of differences in the body weights of the subjects, the relative dose range varied between 0.03 and 0.05 mg/kg per injection. Injections were given between 0800 and 1500, and their delivery was rotated among four to six sites throughout the study period. Treatments were administered on a double-blind basis with neither the experimental subject nor the person administering the injections knowing which treatment was being delivered. The total weekly dose of met-hGH used in this study (8.0 mg) was considered supraphysiological, since the spontaneous release of human GH during a 24-h period is purportedly -0.68 mg (4.8 mg/wk) in men and 0.79 mg (5.5 mg/wk) in women (30), similar to amounts reported by others (6).
CONCLUSION
In the present study, we found that alternate-day treatment with met-hGH altered body composition in highly conditioned, exercising adults by increasing FFW (fat free weight), decreasing %fat, and increasing FFW (fat free weight)/FW (fat weight). These changes were significantly greater than those produced by exercise alone.
...
Moreover we found that supraphysiological amounts of met-hGH were sufficient to significantly elevate circulating concentrations of IGF-I in all our subjects, confirming that the changes in body composition were indeed due to real alterations produced in vivo by the hormone treatment.
Supression of endogenous GH
It has been reported previously that exogenous GH will suppress endogenous release of the hormone (19,23) and that this effect may be mediated in part by elevated levels of IGF-I (23). On a preliminary basis, we found that treatment for 6 wk with supraphysiological doses of met-hGH produced an impaired endogenous GH response to stimulation in some, but not all, of our subjects. This variable response may be related to the amount of hormone used in the study. Although a significant group elevation in IGF-I levels occurred during the met-hGH treatment, this response was still below the upper limit of normal (2.20 U/ml) for the study group. Thus it is plausible that the treatment dose of met-hGH used and the subsequent moderate increase in IGF-I levels led to feedback suppression of endogenous GH release in five of the seven subjects measured for this effect, whereas these physiological events were insufficient to produce this effect in two of the subjects.
Intense exercise increases sensitivity to GH??
...One possible explanation for the disparity between our findings and those of others (25, 26) is that the stress of long-term, intensive exercise training could induce alterations in vivo, which might potentiate tissue sensitivity to the physiological actions of GH (2). In any case, it is clear from our findings that supraphysiological doses of met-hGH increased circulating concentrations of IGF-I and increased FFW (fat free weight) and decreased FW (fat weight) in highly conditioned, exercising adults.
Soft-tissue Overgrowth?
There are two principal adverse reactions associated with excessive amounts of human GH, carbohydrate intolerance, and soft-tissue overgrowth. In the present study, we measured fasting blood glucose levels periodically throughout each treatment and found no real changes suggestive of a hyperglycemic response to methGH. Because soft-tissue overgrowth is associated with abnormally high levels of IGF-I, the normal responses observed suggest that the chance for soft-tissue overgrowth occurring in our subjects was minimal. However, it is unreasonable to conclude that use of met-hGH is safe as an adjunct to exercise in healthy adults until more subjects are studied over longer periods of time and with more stringent tests for detecting changes in glucose tolerance and soft-tissue overgrowth.
Diet used
To avoid compromising the dietary requirements for optimal tissue anabolism during the met-hGH treatment, our subjects ingested between 2.05 and 2.10 g/kg a day of protein and a minimum number of kilocalories to maintain body weight. The kilocaloric requirement removed the potential bias from a dietary-induced FW loss.
In Conclusion
We conclude that treatment with supraphysiological doses of met-hGH will significantly alter body composition in adults who are highly conditioned from years of exercise training. The magnitude of this effect, however, is dependent in part on the amount of hormone given per body weight of the individual rather than endogenous GH secretory status. Changes in body composition are directly related to met-hGH administration, but the manifestations of treatment may be mediated in part by increased production of IGF-I or other GH-dependent serum anabolic factors. Moreover, supraphysiological treatment with met-hGH in exercising adults may produce impairments in the stimulated release of endogenous GH in some individuals.
Welcome to the thread mate, some interesting stuff there.
It has got me thinking that there must be more up to date studies out there along the same lines as that one using somatropin and for longer periods of time, I think that the conclusions to such studies would be along similar lines but better with 191aa rhGH.
Are you using any T4 with your GH?
-XL
jing jai
yes i am using hgh mon-fri 4iu in the am shot IM.
have had bloods done but didnt get thryoid checked. however morning temp on rising is below what it should be altho has increased since this time last week and the week before which is a good indication
So guys I'm going to hit 5IU today which I will split into 2 hits , due to my work I can't hit in the afternoon , so Ill hit in the evening and at 4 am , but when would be the best shot at evening , exactly before I go to bed ??
And my other question is that on saturday I have no work so I can hit an am/pm shot , now do I do that or just stick to an evening and am shot ?
Do you eat just before bed?
If so then I would do it inbetween your penultimate and last meal (this is when I take my 100mcg of T4)
You could try shooting at different times on your days off work, if you do then you can monitor your response by any sides which you may or may not experience.
I think it is becoming more apparent throughout this thread that the injection times are not crutial to the overall outcome and effectiveness of hGH and that it is definitely not an exact science!
-XL
jing jai
Thanks for the reply,, ill hit an am/pm shot in my off days and the rest of the days ill have the night shot ,, and my last meal everynight is a protien shake and the one before that would be the ultimate dinner so ill have my shot and my T4 at that time![]()
I hope I got it right
Thanks again
A few days ago I said I would split my hGH into 5 shots and have it throughout the day.
So far I have managed to do this between meals, the only difference I can detect so far is that I am even more tired than normal, to the point where I HAVE to sleep!
-XL
jing jai
Mate I am already in that boat shooting 5iu at bedtime and 5iu early am, I HATE napping in the day - makes me all spun-out and grumpy for at least an hour after I wake up but the last few weeks I am having to arrange my diary for the day so that I can come home at lunchtime and pass out for a few hours, otherwise I am nearly falling asleep at the wheel - it's the only thing that may prevent me from continuing this GH run indefinitely.
XL, I was considering that when I took my blood work I was running 4 iu ed with 50 mcg of T4.
So, those results come from those amount of drugs.
Now I am injecting 10 iu ed with 100 mcg of T4.
Could it be too low, I mean 100 mcg of T4 should be correct for 4 iu and not 10.
Should not I bump it to 150 mcg ed?
Half and active lives depend on admistration method.
The mean half-life of intravenous somatropin is 20-30 mins, whereas subcutaneously and intramuscularly administered somatropin have half-lives of between 1.7 and 3.4 hours, respectively. The longer half-life observed after subcutaneous or intramuscular administration is due to slow absorption from the injection site.
Molitch ME, Clemmons DR, Malozowski S, et al, “Evaluation and Treatment of Adult Growth Hormone Deficiency: An Endocrine Society Clinical Practice Guideline,” J Clin Endocrinol Metab, 2006, 91(5):1621-34.
-XL
jing jai
Also XL, my wife wants to try somatropin too.
What amount would you suggest?
She is already very lean and athletic so the minimum working amount for a female should be more than enough.
Stats:
34 years old
178 cm (5'84 feet)
56 kg (123 lbs)
15% bf
I would start her on 1iu and work up to 2iu's, she should see some nice results from that.
A couple of years back I worked with a female who was a fitness model, she ran a dose of 2iu's early am, 5 on 2 off and achieved some really good results, I asked her to marry me many times but she refused![]()
-XL
jing jai
I'm on 5iu/ed.... 2.5iu AM & 2.5iu PWO. Just added GHRP-6 into the mix @ 100mcg x 3 each day. Loving it.
My girlfriend is on 1.2iu/ed... she's been on for around 4 months now... starting to notice the benefits now.. prior to this, she only experienced the sides (sore wrists, etc)
-VM
-- Experiences:
1.) The HGH didn't really help me with my sleeping problem (I rarely sleep. Max 6 hours per night.) During the day I noticed I would yawn more regularly. But I wasn't necessarily sleeping more. Once I added the peptide (GHRP-6) into the mix, my sleeps got much deeper, and for one vivid.
2.) I had awful soreness in my wrists, so I tapered up really slowly. After staying on 5iu/ed for around 3 weeks the soreness and dryness began to subside.
3.) IMO the only way to draw out water when you blow up from HGH bloating is a diuretic. I've tried everything, and it was the only thing I found useful in controlling the unexplainable & usually unexpected HGH bloat.
4.) Don't bother with I.M. shots. It's not worth it. End of story.
5.) This is just my opinion, no scientific proof here.... Run HGH for 8 - 12 months if you're just doing a burst. And by burst I mean you're looking for muscle growth effects; also meaning you're running it between 4 - 8iu/ed+. If you're cruising on 2 - 3iu/ed of HGH permenantly, then the burst length does not have to be 8 - 12 months, it can be shortened, since levels should be elevated.
Hope that helps.
-VM
whats up fellas First off i just wanna say thank you for sharing your experiences with hgh i have learned a ton from reading these post.
I have been on *Hyge* for about 2 months now and i must say i am pleased with it so far. I started off with 2iu's ED AM shots, after 2 weeks of that i upped the dosage to 4iu am, now im taking it 2iuAM and 2iu afternoon. I have some fat to burn off but when i do i know its gonna be special because i can feel my six pack muscles under that bit of fat i pinch. Im 40lbs over my usual weight but when i flex i can see a 4 pack, and also the v cuts in my lower abdomen.
stats really brief are 26yo 6'2 270lbs BF not sure, my goal is to get my weight back down to 228 - 235lbs lean and maintain this throughout the year instead of going up and down.
Last edited by BloodyBM; 06-25-2010 at 11:05 PM.
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