Productive Member
So atomini, i just read post 185 and 300 regarding the use of hcg. You state that hcg can; destroy your body's endogenous LH secretion with it (by both desensitizing your leydig cells in the testes, as well as halting endogenous LH and FSH secretion),
What would your protocol be for hcg use over a 18 week cycle? I have hcg and one ovidrel pen available.
week 1-10 is just test then ill be adding tren e and mast a while reducing test then the last few weeks adding winny.
Banned
I would say starting at week 9 (half way into your 18 weeker), start administering 125-250ius 2-3 times per week of HCG along with an AI. You should always run an AI with HCG because HCG increases aromatase production and activity in the body. The idea is to provide the body with just a bit of HCG so as to keep the testes functioning. No need to very high doses of HCG, for example 500iu/day, that would be used more for recovery during PCT. Remember it also all depends on the user as well. If the user is someone who doesn't ever shut down very hard and/or recovers quite well post-cycle, then perhaps HCG use at all is not necessary.Originally Posted by Bulkn
Productive Member
When you say to use hcg during pct do you mean a few days before pct starts or at the same time you use nolva/clomid? Where would you run the hcg up to?
eg
week 1-10 test e
week 11-12
week 13-16 pct nolva 40/20/20/20 clomid 100/50/50/50
Banned
For PCT, if you are going to use HCG, use it in the manner that 'PCT by steroid.com' does (see it in a stickied thread in the PCT section of the forum). I do a modified version whereby I use 500iu/day of HCG for the first 10 days of PCT with Nolvadex and Aromasin. I then halt the Aromasin when the HCG is halted and continue the Nolvadex for a remaining 30 days. I don't use Clomid, it's crap.
Associate Member
Im planning a test p/tren a cycle following a carb cycling diet with my goal being to add 10-15 lbs and dropping some bf%. I was thinking about using t3 while on this cycle to help with the bf%, but im not so sure if i should. Do you think t3 would interfere with me trying to put on some lbs? If it is beneficial would .25mcg be enough?
Banned
No, 25mcg will do absolutely nothing at all considering your thyroid gland produces on its own approximately 25-30mcg per day. All you would be doing is simply replacing your body's own production with no advantages and nothing to add. Ideally T3 should be run anywhere between 50-100mcg per day, depending on the user's response.
Drop fat or add mass. Pick only one and stick to it, because you can't possibly do both at maximum efficiency.
Associate Member
I agree 100% with you on going all the way with either bulking or cutting.
In my profession you have to be looking your best "all times" and on december i was given a chance to be featured in a major event overseas and that is perhaps THE chance im getting to put me in a great position.
Im 26 6ft 197lbs 14% bf.
I feel like i need to gain some size and def get leaner.
I guess ill just stick to cutting since being lean is essential.
Or do you think that doing what i suggested before would be a better option in my case?
Thanks man
Junior Member
Does tren make you more aggressive and moody then say like test might.
Banned
It is possible with AAS to put lean mass on with minimal fat gain (and even some possible fat loss) by keeping your diet as clean as you possibly can, and toying with your calories. But you won't get optimal mass gains OR optimal fat loss comapred to if you focused on either alone.
Yes, but this is largely dose dependant. I never had any problems running Trenbolone at 400mg/week or less. I noticed increased irritability when I ran an 800mg/week Tren cycle. Still controllable and manageable with no issues, but I just noticed an increased above normal irritability and mentally edgy.
Productive Member
Thanks mate. Think ill just use the ovidrel and start it a little later then. Im not sure what to do about running the hcg with the nolva though. From memory swifto said something about running the hcg first then nolva/clomid becuase if you run them at the same time they work against eachother.
Banned
I think you may have misunderstoor or misread. That's not true. the 'PCT by steroid.com' protocol has you running nolvadex all through HCG administration with no problems. The idea is that HCG stimulates the testes directly, while nolvadex administration stimulates the pituitary to release ITS endogenous LH and FSH so that when the HCG is halted, the activity of the nolvadex picks up where the HCG left off. The only thing off the top of my head that shouldn't be run together is Arimidex and Nolvadex, or Letro and Nolvadex. This is because both Arimidex and Letro reduce blood plasma levels of Nolvadex. This is why Aromasin is the better choice of AI when using Nolvadex.
Productive Member
Interesting. Well I think the best thing to do is try it for myself and see what happens and compare. Do you run the nolva at 40/20/20/20 or higher?
Thanks again!
Banned
Yes, you can run the Nolva like that or do my preferred 40/40/20/20.
Junior Member
Wow! That is absolutely the most comprehensive post on tren I've seen. Any there is always so many questions about tren because of the fear and hysteria built up about it. Awesome work bro!
Associate Member
Beautiful post sir truly a work of art
Senior Member
hey mate i got an email from CMS, they said their laywers are requesting them to stop selling serms, so they are pulling the plug on serms . just a heads up
Banned
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
They just restocked on Caber, too!!!!!
Associate Member
I have a site I can give u that has good caber
Banned
Wait, Caber is not a SERM.... but then that just means Clomid and Nolvadex will be unavailable from them.
Junior Member
What are your thoughts on this cycle layout?
1-10 test- 250mg twice a week
1-8 Tren ace 50mg every other day
1-6 Var 50-80mg every day
1-10 Masterone 100mg every other day or Monday wensday friday at the least
1-10 Prami .25mg every 3 days
6-10 hcgenerate 3 caps am 2 caps pm
1-10 aromisin 12.5mg every 3 days
10-16 forma-stanzol 5 pumps am and pm the first 4 weeks and then taper down to 3 pumps am and pm the last 2 weeks
10-14 Phytoserm-347 1 cap am and pm
14-18 bridge 1 cap 3 times a day
Hcg may be used instead of hcgenerate @ 250iu 2x ew up until 3 days before pct.
Thanks
Productive Member
I HAVE GOT TO GET SOME CABER FOR MY FIRST TREN CYCLE COMING UP! If you know what I mean.
Junior Member
Great thread. What are you thoughts on splitting a cycle for example
1-8 test e 600 a week
1-4 dbol 40 mg Ed
1-8 deca 450 a week
Arimadex .5 eod
Hcg 250iu's twice a week
Then after week 8
8-16 test e 300 a week
8-16 tren ace 450 a week
No ai and no hcg
Then pct nolva and clomid
My main question is should I overlap the deca and tren or just do a straight switch?
Senior Member
i did ask them, and they replied back the caber too. "buy now quickly" <-- this sounds a bit odd that a csr would say that, also he/she said the caber is in capsules? has all the caber you got from them always been in that form? and not generic pills?
Banned
Looks good to me, though the only critique I have on that cycle is there are a little too many compounds. I believe 3 compounds in one cycle is a lot, and 4 is unnecessary. Are you a competitive bodybuilder? If not, then the Masteron in my opinion will be a waste. The power of the Trenbolone combined with Anavar will completely dwarf the Masteron, and it would only serve for aesthetic purposes when at low bodyfat %.
I would do a switch rather than run both at the same time. Running Deca and Tren at the same time is not good, because it is way too much progestational activity. It has been done, and I believe there are a couple of members or something here that are currently running Deca and Tren at the same time. But it isn't something reccomended, and therefore i'd suggest running one after the other instead.
Yeah this sounds suspect to me. I'm a regular customer of theirs, and I haven't heard a damn thing. I may email them just to make sure. But if this were really true, they would have an announcement on their website stating what is going on with their research chems and SERMs. I think their sales rep may be trying to take you for a ride.
And yes, their Caber is in capsules. ALL of their research chems are in capsules. They simply take the raw powders and cap them.
Junior Member
Thanks for the reply. I'd estimate my bf% at 9-10% right now. I was at 10.5% b4 last test euth/cyp and mast cycle for 12 weeks and I have Ren on a cut since. Def lower bf% then before.
I will drop the masteron, no not a Contest body builder. I noticed minimal effects last run. I dont think I'm low enough bf% wise to see the effects.
Thanks again!
Junior Member
awesome read , I'm confident enough to run a tren cycle in the future now.
Female Member
OK, female questions:
1. I have run tren at 200mg/wk split into two injections. I didn't have any bad sides from that dose, so should I go higher for mass gain? I know you say to inject EOD, so would this be something like 75 to 100mg EOD if I want to bump up my dose?
2. You mentioned not to run test higher than tren, and maybe that's just for men, but when I use test I do 200mg/wk. So on tren, would I need less test? What's a good test-to-tren ratio?
3. Any idea why people recommend test, tren and winny together?
4. How is enanthate different from acetate? I think all I can get is tren E.
Banned
Awesome to have some female-centered questions around here. As you might know (or suspect), Trenbolone is the LEAST advised anabolic steroid for women to use due to its very very high androgenic nature (5x more than Testosterone). So you have to realize that the risk of virilization is very high and base how you will be using your Trenbolone on that (unless you don't care about virilization). So with that being said, here's my answers to your questions:
1. If you have Trenbolone Acetate, you should be injecting EOD to maintain stable blood levels. This is because the Acetate ester grants Trenbolone a 24-48 hour half life. Pinning tren at 200mg/week split into two injections evenly apart would be fine with the Enanthate variant, but Acetate needs to be done EOD. With that being said, if you want to keep it at 200mg/week, then you should pin 50mg EOD. If you want to bump the dose up, that's your choice. But i'd just like to make note that 200mg/week or more is a standard dose for males, and that's pretty strong for us. I would say that considering the strong nature of tren, that's a whopping lot for a female. But it's your choice to run it at that dose if you wish, just beware of the strong nature of tren and risk of virilization.
2. You may have misunderstood me in my Tren article. I stated to run Testosterone LOWER than Trenbolone, not the other way around. In the case of females, it doesn't matter at all. The idea of using Testosterone at any dose as a staple in a cycle for men is to avoid problems that are associated with zero Testosterone in the body due to shutdown. This results in normal bodily functions that are governed by Testosterone to cease function and then problems result. Females don't need to worry about any of that for reasons that are quite obvious. For YOU, a female, you don't need to run Testosterone with anything at all unless you want to. You women have the priviledge of doing Tren-only cycles if you want without the reprecussions that we males have if we were to do the same.
3. Test/Tren/Winny is a popular combo for hardening or lean mass or shredding cycles. It all depends on the dose run. A cycle like that doesn't provide much water retention, if any at all. It all depends on the dosing scheme for each of the compounds in that type of cycle. Beware that for females though, that's a strong andorgenic stack (again, depends on dosing too). These types of cycles can come in all types of forms (Test/Tren/Tbol, Test/Tren/Anavar, Test/Tren/Masteron).
4. Trenbolone Enanthate has a half life of about 10 days. Trenbolone Acetate has a half life of about 24-48 hours. As a result, Enanthate needs to be pinned 2x a week spread evenly apart for stable consistent blood levels. Acetate requires EOD shots for stable consistent blood levels.
Female Member
For my last cut cycle I used tren E at 200mg/wk, Masteron 200mg/wk, winstrol 50mg EOD, nolva 20mg/day, clen 100mcg/day. Did this for ten weeks. Didn't notice any bad sides; I did see a slight thinning of the hair and the formation of a small bald spot, but thought that was due to the primo I had been using for the previous ten weeks. Some acne, but not totally disgusting.
So I think I could handle the 200mg. I thought males did a lot more than that? If I could still put on mass at 200mg then I'll stick with that dose.
I just like using test because I feel awesome on it. I thought it had to be used for building mass until someone told me for women, test wasn't really necessary, for the reasons you've stated.
And, I've got some leftover winny and Masteron that I don't know what to do with; guess I can save it until I cut again.
New Member
First post, but I've been lurking for awhile now and read just about everything you post. Very informative for someone who has never used AAS like myself.
In no way am I considering using Tren on my first cycle (done enough research to know better the that), but I do have a question.
I've heard and seen many people claim people to only gain 10 lbs while on cycle, but they essentially have lost 20 lbs of fat while gaining 30 of muscle (or so they say).
Would this be done while on a cutting diet? Because I know another person while on cycle put on tons of weight, had essentially 0 aesthetics and looked like a bowling ball. I assumed this would be on a heavy bulking diet. Just not sure what kind of diet is used for someone in the first scenario.
Thanks for any help.
Banned
The person in your first scenario was likely adhering to a strictly clean diet, likely a small caloric surplus, and/or the person must have been a beginner or at least not yet very experienced with cycling AAS. The reason I say this is because beginners will always be able to shred fat while gaining mass. This is much harder for an experienced user to do. It also requires extremely strict nutritional guidelines. Generally, a cutting diet will not provide sufficient calories to add mass. In order to add mass, one must be in a caloric surplus. To burn fat, one must be in a caloric deficit. The person in your second scenario just sounds like they were eating like crap and perhaps not training properly either.
Associate Member
Can you please link me to a website to buy caber please..
New Member
Thank you for the response. I know Tren is powerful, I just wasn't sure if it was actually such a powerful cutting agent that you can drop that much fat while still putting on solid mass.
This clears it up for me though.
Banned
The truth is that Tren does have the ability to lower bodyfat while putting on mass. But these claims of dropping like 20 lbs. of bodyfat while putting on 30 lbs. of muscle is just a ludicrous claim. Tren can make you lose 20 lbs. of fat, yes, but only if it is a STRICT cutting diet and with a diet like that there is no room for mass building. 30 lbs. of muscle? That's not even possible even when bulking.
What a more realistic result would be if you're trying to burn fat AND put muscle on at the same with with Tren would be: 5-10 lbs. of bodyfat and 10-15 lbs of muscle simultaneously for a beginner-intermediate user. If you're a more experienced advanced AAS user, then I would say those numbers would look more like: 5-10 lbs. of bodyfat and 5 lbs of muscle.
Female Member
OK, what about those three-in-one blends of tren a, tren e and tren h? Would that give more dramatic results or is it not necessary?
Banned
Totally unnecessary, especially for a female. Stick to one type for ease of administration and timing, etc.
Member
atomini thanks for such an informational thread, you mention that you like masteron as the only other AAS. How would you add it to a test/tren cycle?
Productive Member
Also, when running a test e tren e cycle, should you continue to pin the test a week or 2 after tren is finished to make sure the tren is out your system?
Banned
400mg per week of Masteron thrown on top of Test and Tren would be ideal. But what you have to understand is that it is mostly a cosmetic compound, meaning its effects manifest itself through giving your body that harder denser 3D look to your muscles. This can only happen at a low enough bodyfat, of course. It's a compound that is most useful to competing bodybuilders. To the average recreational AAS user, there isn't a whole lot of benefit to using it other than for its ability to hinder SHBG and act as a mild aromatase inhibitor. Through these 2 abilities, it can potentiate the effect of other steroids stacked with it.
My personal preference is to halt everything at the same time and I like to advise others of doing the same thing, though this practice is mostly a personal preference issue. It really doesn't matter either way but when you terminate your cycle, I believe its optimal to halt everything and begin the recovery process ASAP rather than screw around with running compounds for lingering weeks after other compounds have been halted, etc... it just delays your recovery process. I believe in halting everything all at once, as the quicker you get off the quicker you recover. Suppression is suppression, and it remains so even with exogenous test still in your system. To me, the concept of keeping test going for a week or 2 after halting tren is as an outmoted idea as tapering off AAS rather than halting administration immediately and doing PCT , which is of course what they did in the old days. Best to just stop everything at the same time.
Last edited by Atomini; 10-31-2012 at 06:24 AM.
Member
I can get ahold of masteron e 150. Would 300mg/week suffice? And does it do anything at a lower dose say 150mg/week?
My stack would look like this:
Week 1-10 test e 250 1ml 2x/wk = 500mg
Week1-5 tren hex 150 .75ml 2x/wk = 225mg
Week 6-8 tren hex 150 .5ml 2x/wk = 150mg
Week 6-10 masteron e 150 .5ml 2x/wk = 150mg
Week 4-11 L-dex 0.25mg EOD
Pct
Novla
40/40/20/30
Clomid
70/35/35/35
Would this be an efficient stack? I am thinking these doses to keep the pin to 2ml max and since I want to stretch out the tren as long as possible. I could only get one 10ml vial of the tren hex and masteron 150.
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