Symptoms of 'Deca Dick'?

[wynot]

I went on astack of Test Cyp (250/wk), Nandrolone Deca (250/wk) and Proviron (50/day) about 3 months ago. Just for the Feds, I have a prescription.

About two weeks into this I started having problems with erections. I'd get one, but just as I was ejaculating I'd go soft. It bothered my wife and her girlfriend but they were both kind about it (they liked the muscle . Even though they've assured me I'm still doing fine I expect they'll get bored eventually.

I did some research and decide the Deca might be the problem so I stopped it and increased Test to 500/wk. Things didn't improve. I went to Viagra, and it worked with the hardness problem but something new happened; no ejaculation/orgasm.

I've been off the Deca for 12 weeks now, and off the Test for 3. I'm post cycling on Clomid and HCG. So far no improvement.

Are these accurate symptoms of Deca? If so, how long does this last? Would taking a dopamine agonist like Dostinex help?

Thanks for any input.

[Stout1]

First off why are you using HCG and Clomid? Thats a no no. Pick one or the other, preferably clomid.

[KINGKONG]

First off why are you using HCG and Clomid? Thats a no no. Pick one or the other, preferably clomid.

I like to run 500iu's Hcg for ten days before as clears my body get my nuts nice and plump,before clomid...Did you say my wife and her girlfriend?
If they like muscles Iam sure some of or fine young AR reps like me will keep them entertained with hard dick and bubble gum.....

[bignatt]

I like to run 500iu's Hcg for ten days before as clears my body get my nuts nice and plump,before clomid...Did you say my wife and her girlfriend?
If they like muscles Iam sure some of or fine young AR reps like me will keep them entertained with hard dick and bubble gum.....

hahaha.....ya i need to update that article for the hcg sample cycle maybe you could PM me with one

[KINGKONG]

hahaha.....ya i need to update that article for the hcg sample cycle maybe you could PM me with one

no problem

[wynot]

I like to run 500iu's Hcg for ten days before as clears my body get my nuts nice and plump,before clomid...Did you say my wife and her girlfriend?
If they like muscles Iam sure some of or fine young AR reps like me will keep them entertained with hard dick and bubble gum.....

I'm using 500IU/day, started 2 weeks after I stopped the Test, but I started the Clomid at the same time. It looks like this:

Week 12-14 - 500IU HCG/Day
Day 1 - 600mg Clomid
Day 2 - 400mg Clomid
Day 3 - 200mg Clomid
Day 4-14 100 mg Clomid

So the Clomid starts with a spike and runs down to 100mg/day pretty fast but I'm taking them concurant. Any reason to believe that they interfere with each other?

Yes, I didn mention my wife and her girlfriend, and yes they do generally compare notes. Actually their usually together at the time so they don't reall yneed notes...

Thanks for the offer of support, if this lasts much longer we may need to call you.

[KINGKONG]

I'm using 500IU/day, started 2 weeks after I stopped the Test, but I started the Clomid at the same time. It looks like this:

Week 12-14 - 500IU HCG/Day
Day 1 - 600mg Clomid
Day 2 - 400mg Clomid
Day 3 - 200mg Clomid
Day 4-14 100 mg Clomid

So the Clomid starts with a spike and runs down to 100mg/day pretty fast but I'm taking them concurant. Any reason to believe that they interfere with each other?

Yes, I didn mention my wife and her girlfriend, and yes they do generally compare notes. Actually their usually together at the time so they don't reall yneed notes...

Thanks for the offer of support, if this lasts much longer we may need to call you.

hate to say it but u already messed up....u should have ran th 500iu your last two weeks of cycling...then hit the clomid and nolva...I would just keep running the clomid at 100mg a day...
good luck

[wynot]

hate to say it but u already messed up....u should have ran th 500iu your last two weeks of cycling...then hit the clomid and nolva...I would just keep running the clomid at 100mg a day...
good luck

Thanks. Sounds like we might need you number after all...

So Here's what the Anti Aging Group LLC told me to do with the HCG. There seema to be a difference of opinion:

4) INSTRUCTIONS FOR ADMINISTERING HCG

HCG (Novarel - Human Chorionic Gonadotropin):

Begin taking HCG 2 weeks after your cycle of testosterone.

Mixing instructions: Using a 18 gauge 1_ “ standard 3ml syringe, draw 3ml's of sterile solvent water from the vial and load water into the HCG vial. Then draw 2ml's of sterile solvent water from the vial and load water into the HCG vial. You will now have a total of 5ml's of sterile solvent water mixed in with the HCG powder. Shake and refrigerate after reconstitution.

Dosage: 50 units per day for 10 consecutive days, use 30 gauge 5/16“ syringe to draw HCG for injection. Then 4 days off, before resuming the next testosterone cycle.

Injection site: Subcutaneous injection administered near the navel just below skin layer (DO NOT INJECT INTO MUSCLE), gently pinch up the skin & hold the syringe at a right angle to the injection site, insert the needle using a quick smooth motion.

* Make sure you refrigerate the vial of mixed HCG.

[wynot]

It's what they (MD's) told me to do. Please explain, I'm all ears.

[Stout1]

It's what they (MD's) told me to do. Please explain, I'm all ears.

What MD's told you that?

Here is a link to a STICKY in the PCT forum. It will answer all your questions.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=94626

[KINGKONG]

What MD's told you that?

Here is a link to a STICKY in the PCT forum. It will answer all your questions.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=94626

gotta love pheedno

[bignatt]

The Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular Axis, or HPTA for short, is the thermostat for your body’s natural production of testosterone. Too much testosterone and the furnace will shut off. Not enough, and the heat is turned up, to put it very simply. For the purposes of our discussion here we can look at this regulating process as having three levels. At the top is the hypothalamic region of the brain, which releases the hormone GnRH (Gonadotropin-Releasing Hormone) when it senses a need for more testosterone. GnRH sends a signal to the second level of the axis, the pituitary, which releases Luteinizing Hormone in response. LH for short, this hormone stimulates the testes (level three) to secrete testosterone. The same sex steroids (testosterone, estrogen) that are produced serve to counter-balance things, by providing negative feedback signals (primarily to the hypothalamus and pituitary) to lower the secretion of testosterone when too much of this hormone is sensed. Synthetic steroids, of course, suppress testosterone the same way. This quick background of the testosterone-regulating axis is necessary to furthering our discussion, as we need to first look at the underlying mechanisms involved before we can understand why natural recovery of the HPTA post-cycle is a slow process. Only then can we implement an ancillary drug program to effectively deal with it.



Testicular Desensitization


Although steroids suppress testosterone production primarily by lowering the level of gonadotropic hormones discussed above, the big roadblock to a restored HPTA after we come off the drugs is surprisingly not the level of LH itself. This problem is made clearly evident in a study published in Acta Endocrinologica back in 1975(1). Here blood parameters, including testosterone and LH levels, were monitored in male subjects whom were given testosterone enanthate injections of 250mg weekly for 21 weeks. Subjects remained under investigation for an additional 18 weeks after the drug was discontinued. At the start of the study, LH levels became suppressed in direct relation to the rise in testosterone, which is to be expected. Things looked very different, however, once the steroids had been withdrawn (see Figure I). LH levels went on the rise quickly (by the 3rd week), while testosterone barely budged for quite some time. In fact, on average it was more than 10 weeks before any noticeable movement started. This lack of correlation makes clear that the problem in getting androgen levels restored is not the level of LH, but in fact testicular atrophy and desensitization to this hormone. After a period of inactivation the testes have apparently lost mass (atrophied), making them unable to perform the workload required by heightened levels of LH.


Post-Cycle LH Levels


Post Cycle Testosterone Levels



Figure I. LH and Testosterone measurements starting 1 week after the last injection of 250mg of testosterone enanthate (pretreated measures were 5 mU/ml and 4.5 ng/ml respectively). Note that between weeks 1 and 5, as testosterone levels are declining due to the cessation of exogenous androgen administration, LH levels are already rebounding. From weeks 5 to 10 testosterone levels are at or very near baseline, to spite the substantial LH levels by this point. No significant increase in testosterone is noted until after the 10-week mark.



The Role of Anti-estrogens


It is important to understand that anti-estrogens alone do not do much to restore endogenous testosterone release after a cycle. Normally they only foster LH by blocking the negative feedback of estrogens, and we now see that LH rebounds quickly without help anyway. Plus, post cycle there is not an elevated level of estrogen for anti-estrogens to block, as testosterone (now suppressed) is a major substrate used for the synthesis of estrogens in men. Serum estrogen levels will actually be lower here as a result, not higher. Any estrogen rebound that occurs post-cycle likewise happens concurrently with a rebound in testosterone levels, not prior to it (note there is an imbalance in the ratio post cycle, but this is another topic altogether). We are seeing no mechanism in which anti-estrogenic drugs can really help here. We can see why this fact would not be difficult to overlook, however. The medical literature is filled with references showing anti-estrogenic drugs like Clomid and Nolvadex to increase LH and testosterone levels, and in normal situations these drugs do indeed increase endogenous androgen production by blocking the negative feedback of estrogens. Combine this with the fact that just as many studies can be found to show that steroid use lowers LH levels when suppressing testosterone, and we can see how easy it would be to jump to the conclusion that post-cycle we need to focus on restoring LH. We would miss the true problem of testicular desensitization unless we were really looking into the actual recovery rates of the hormones involved. When we do, we immediately see little value in using anti-estrogenic drugs.



HCG


So we now see, contrary to the dominating opinion of the times, that anti-estrogens alone will do little to raise testosterone levels in the early weeks of the post-cycle window. This leaves us to focus on a very different level of the HPTA in order to hasten recovery: the testes. For this we will need the injectable drug HCG. If you are not familiar with it, HCG, or Human Chorionic Gonadotropin, is a prescription fertility agent that mimics the bodies own natural LH. Although the testes are equally desensitized to this drug as LH (they both work through the same mechanism), we are administering it as a measured drug and are therefore not constrained by the limits of our own LH production. We similarly can use HCG to provide a bolus dose of LH (of our choosing), which works only to augment the recovering LH levels we already have in the body. In essence we are looking to shock them with an overwhelmingly high level of LH activity, coming from both endogenous and exogenous sources. We want it to reach a level far above what our body, even when supported by anti-estrogens, could possibly do on its own. The result can be a rapid restoration of original testicular mass and functioning, which would allow normal levels of testosterone to be output much sooner than without such an ancillary program. What we are looking at now is HCG actually being the pivotal post-cycle drug, while anti-estrogens are relegated to a supportive role at best.



Finalizing the Program


An ideal post-cycle recovery program will focus on two things really. The first is hitting the testes hard with HCG. It is important, however, not to overuse this drug. Taken for too long, or at too high a dosage, the LH receptor will actually become desensitized to LH(2) , which may further exacerbate our post-cycle problem instead of helping it (this is why I am not in favor of regular HCG use on-cycle). My experience with HCG has led me to feel comfortable using it for a course of three weeks, at a dosage of maybe 5000-7500IU weekly. Often the last week I limit the dose to 2,500IU, unless the cycle has been particularly long or potent. This is timed so at least half of the total administered drug dosage will be given when there is still exogenous steroid in the body. On our graph above this would be at about the 3-week mark after the last injection of testosterone. This will give the testes some time to get back into shape before the baseline is actually hit with T levels. Secondly, Anti-estrogens are used to play a supportive role at the same time, so 20mg of Nolvadex or 50-100mg of Clomid would typically be added ( my last article for Mind and Muscle discusses the comparative differences with these two agents). This is to combat the suppressive effects of estrogen as testosterone levels start to go back up, as well as potential side effects (HCG has been shown to increase testicular aromatase activity as well (3)). Although in the first couple of weeks the anti-estrogen does little, it may indeed be helpful when testosterone levels actually start to get back up near normal. To further stimulate the HPTA, and support continuingly high LH levels, the anti-estrogen remains to be used for 2 to 3 weeks after the HCG therapy has been stopped. A sample program, as it would be instituted in our sample post-cycle window, is provided below.



Sample Post-cycle Plan:


Week 3: 5000IU HCG total + 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 4: 5000IU HCG total + 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 5: 2500IU HCG total + 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 6: 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 7: 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 8: 20mg Nolvadex daily

[bignatt]

one other thing is that you could try some tribulus at 4 g a day or try tongkat ali

[KINGKONG]

one other thing is that you could try some tribulus at 4 g a day or try tongkat ali

Trib makes me horney as hell...As natt said
4grams a day is perfect....

[thick one]

just curious, why would it bother your wife's girlfriend??

[KINGKONG]

just curious, why would it bother your wife's girlfriend??

he is banging her...get with the program we all bang are wifes friends on AR
thats what the bannana is for ...Then when Iam done with them they ....But never bang your wifes friends before lifting ...
Iam just clowning..................

[bignatt]

So kingpin has help me come up with a better hcg protocall
last week of cycle: 300-500IU HCG total 2x week + 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 2: 300-500IU HCG total 2x week + 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 3: 300-500IU HCG total 2x week + 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 4: 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 5: 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 6: 20mg Nolvadex daily

[Stout1]

So kingpin has help me come up with a better hcg protocall
last week of cycle: 300-500IU HCG total 2x week + 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 2: 300-500IU HCG total 2x week + 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 3: 300-500IU HCG total 2x week + 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 4: 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 5: 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 6: 20mg Nolvadex daily

Is week 2, 2 weeks before the end of the cycle??
Is week 3, 3 weeks before the end of the cycle??
Is week 4, 4 ..................... etc, etc.

[KINGKONG]

Is week 2, 2 weeks before the end of the cycle??
Is week 3, 3 weeks before the end of the cycle??
Is week 4, 4 ..................... etc, etc.

I think he's talking post cycle bro...

[KINGKONG]

Is week 2, 2 weeks before the end of the cycle??
Is week 3, 3 weeks before the end of the cycle??
Is week 4, 4 ..................... etc, etc.

I think he's talking post cycle bro...

[Stout1]

So kingpin has help me come up with a better hcg protocall
last week of cycle: 300-500IU HCG total 2x week + 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 2: 300-500IU HCG total 2x week + 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 3: 300-500IU HCG total 2x week + 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 4: 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 5: 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 6: 20mg Nolvadex daily

Where is the clomid? Drop the HCG for PCT purposes and stick with the clomid/nolva combo.

[Stout1]

I've been off the Deca for 12 weeks now, and off the Test for 3. I'm post cycling on Clomid and HCG. So far no improvement.

The HCG/Clomid combo is bad b/c it just makes it harder to recover. How long have you been off? For SURE drop the HCG. Just stick to the clomid.

HCG is to be used while you are ON, not while you are OFF. If you use HCG while you are off you just are tricking your body into thinking that it has recovered, but it really hasn't. So just stick to the clomid.

[KINGKONG]

The HCG/Clomid combo is bad b/c it just makes it harder to recover. How long have you been off? For SURE drop the HCG. Just stick to the clomid.

HCG is to be used while you are ON, not while you are OFF. If you use HCG while you are off you just are tricking your body into thinking that it has recovered, but it really hasn't. So just stick to the clomid.

clomid and hcg are a no-no and I think me and natt got screwed up because
I forgot that guy was already done with his cycle...I was thinking he could follow that before he got off to get a good start on pct..

[KINGKONG]

sorry natt

[KINGKONG]

and run the clomid for 30 days at least

[bignatt]

i was under the impression that you were still on your cycle but oh well

[KINGKONG]

i was under the impression that you were still on your cycle but oh well

thats were we ****e3 up...I gotta read more careful..I mean the guys balls
and ladies are at stake...

[bignatt]

Right thats why you take it your last week of administration if it were a long acting ester

[bignatt]

I would have ran it exactly like this if it was on time
last week of cycle: 300-500IU HCG total 2x week + 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 2: 300-500IU HCG total 2x week + 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 3: 300-500IU HCG total 2x week + 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 4: 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 5: 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 6: 20mg Nolvadex daily

but since it is not i would run it like this:
PCT for cycle:
Day 1-30- .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva

[Big_Lex]

I would have ran it exactly like this if it was on time
last week of cycle: 300-500IU HCG total 2x week + 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 2: 300-500IU HCG total 2x week + 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 3: 300-500IU HCG total 2x week + 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 4: 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 5: 20mg Nolvadex daily
Week 6: 20mg Nolvadex daily

but since it is not i would run it like this:
PCT for cycle:
Day 1-30- .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva

i would do that same thing in PCT + i would deffinately get some tongat ali, tribulus and zma..and even add half a tab of proviron ED as well
id recomend BioTest RedKat and the ZMA they make (thats **** good stuff if you wanna spend some cash, tried it works great!)

[turbolag87]

only thing that makes me horny as hell and I mean HORNY as HELL is GHB. I find that GHB only works to get me hard while im on deca. While ON GHB, i swear You look at woman like they are pieces of meat.... Its scary

[Chocolate]

hope you get your willy back up to speed br0.
just so you can bang your wife and her gf though

[hobbitlifter]

only thing that makes me horny as hell and I mean HORNY as HELL is GHB. I find that GHB only works to get me hard while im on deca. While ON GHB, i swear You look at woman like they are pieces of meat.... Its scary

Same way here. I get horny as h***, my fiance' likes it though.

[turbolag87]

Same way here. I get horny as h***, my fiance' likes it though.

LOL, ya GHB is definatly good ( VERY GOOD for sex) but if too much is taken your prolactin levels shoot up and you cannot bust a load. So far right now I Get horny with ghb, but I cannot bust a load Yes its fustrating.

[Big_Lex]

yea keep on taking GHB ... i see your life very short and plus ghb is catabolic deluxe. hate that **** with passion

[turbolag87]

yea keep on taking GHB ... i see your life very short and plus ghb is catabolic deluxe. hate that **** with passion

Then i Guess i would of been dead long TIME ago. Know your facts before u rant ok.