Back again for more diet help

[billgates]

Revisting this topic again after a year. A while back I received a ton of help from very informative members to help me contruct a diet for my needs. Well I have been followig those guidelines pretty much for the last year.

My girlfriend recently introduced me to livestrong.com and I have been using their calcualtor and charts. According to them a male at 6'1 230lbs has a TDEE of 3850 calories. It does not however, ask anything about bf% (I am still 18%) so I assume that its not perfectly accurate.

My dilema is, that even when creating a 1000 caloired deficit each day, I am unable to eat enough calories to sustain what they reccomend. As my diet and program sits right now I am consuming 2877 calories each day, burning 662 with weights and cardio, and need to consume an additional 635 cals.

My question is, is this TDEE way off and high? If this TDEE is accurate, would it be bad to have a 1635 calorie deficit each day? Thanks in advance.

[RaginCajun]

i think you are eatin way too much. i would have your TDEE at around 2829 to maintain what you have. if you are looking to cut, i would drop about 500-600cals, which puts you at around 2300 or so. i would also suggest using a 60/20/20 or 40/40/20 approach for your macros. i suggest reading thru the stickies at the top of the section, they should help you get started

[billgates]

I've read all the stickies and my diet is contructed using 60/20/20 (more like 55/25/20 but oh well). I was just thinking their TDEE was high. Which sucks because I can't edit any of it. I really like the layout and function of the site, it allows me to track everything. Its too bad they don't allow to edit TDEE yet. I'll go back to finding my TDEE manually and mentally noting the difference from the site so that I may still use its features.

Thanks for calulating that for me by the way.


**So you think cutting a 1000 a day is too much? I was thinking I would try to cut 7000 a week to drop 2 pounds of fat a week. The only way to do that is to cut 1000 a day.**

[--->>405<<---]

hey bill i remember u!

good starting maintenance cals = LBM x 15

for u at 230lbs 18%bf is 2829cals

for cutting id recommend 2300cals 60/20/20

[billgates]

Whats up 405! I'm still living and eating by the principles that you taught me when I was last on the site. I have just been so side tracked with other things (such as injury and financial ruin ahah) that I haven't been very consistent, hence the weight that I seem to hover around, 230. I'm ready to revisit my diet and plan now that I am able to dedicate more time to it again. Ill take your advice and not cut more than 500. I'd show you my diet but, its not necessary. It looks very similar to the last one I laid out.

I was just bascially wondering about the TDEE being too high, but I got it figured out. I had the BMR all screwed up and it threw all the other numbers out of whack. Got it sorted now. Thanks for the help guys. I will be visiting the forum once a day to stay up on knowledge and supplements.

hey bill i remember u!

good starting maintenance cals = LBM x 15

for u at 230lbs 18%bf is 2829cals

for cutting id recommend 2300cals 60/20/20

[--->>405<<---]

good to see u back bill! if u wanna post ur diet once u get the cals sorted out id be glad to chk it out!

[billgates]

I probably will. I could use your constructive criticism.

[billgates]

Hey 405. So I have my entire diet logged into this website (livestrong), I have been unable to easily extract it in a format thats readable. I can only export it in excel. I just went ahead and viewed the diet and did screenshots for you. The first one is the whole diet and the second one is just the totals at the bottom. Sorry its in this format, I have just been too busy to extract all the information.

Now judging from your previous criticisms you will suggest the following changes to the diet:

Exchange the protein bar and shake for real foods
Get rid of the gatorade post workout and replace it with a complex carb source

I'm aware of these things but for now its about convenience. What the chart doesn't show is that I have to have something while in the middle of class right before going to the gym, so it has to be convenient. Other than that though, what do you think? I calculated my TDEE and then did some numbers for how many cals im burning a day (well actually the site did it for me haha) and then adjusted my totals accordingly.

Anyway just take a look at let me know what you think!

[--->>405<<---]

hey bill i appreciate the effort but ur gonna have to do a little more. i cant read that man!

all we need is food choices total cals and total macros plus meal times and workout time. if u have the diet built it shouldnt take u more than 15mins to type this out.. looks like u have multiple days in there. i only need one day. u can shift stuff around for variety.

on a side note dont let convenience get in the way of progress!

[billgates]

hey bill i appreciate the effort but ur gonna have to do a little more. i cant read that man!

all we need is food choices total cals and total macros plus meal times and workout time. if u have the diet built it shouldnt take u more than 15mins to type this out.. looks like u have multiple days in there. i only need one day. u can shift stuff around for variety.

on a side note dont let convenience get in the way of progress!

Right click the pic and click save picture as, then re open it on your computer. Its actually very neatly organized with a lot of info. If you still don't feel like messing with it, don't worry I'll have the raw numbers uploaded when I get 2 seconds away from work, school, or lifting.

[--->>405<<---]

too much to look at ive been at work for 15hrs.. LOL finally done.

[billgates]

Ok 405 you bastard I extracted all the info for ya


STATS

6'1
231 lbs
29 years old
~17% bf





TDEE

3069 TDEE (calculated short way. Without bf%)
-750 calorie deficit (would like a 600 deficit but the software only lets me choose 500 or 750)
2319
+644 calories burned each day (331 elliptical & 313 weights)
2963 TOTAL TDDE WITH DEFICIT





DIET (cals/fat/carbs/protein)



Breakfast

300/6/54/10 - Oats - 1 cup
210/4/6/52 - Whey powder - 2 scoops
20/2/0/0 - EFA's - 2 capsules

530/12/60/62 - Breakfast totals



Morning snack

50/.4/1/1.3 - Walnuts - 1 tbls
150/1.4/0/42.1 - Tuna light - 1 can
50/4.9/1.3/.1 - Light mayo - 1 tbls
180/5/8/26 - Cottage cheese 2% - 1 cup

430/11.7/10.3/69.45 - Morning snack totals



Lunch

110/2.5/0/23 - Chicken breast - 4oz
31/0/6/3 - broccli - 1 cup
90/6/1/7 - cheese - 1 oz
160/3/5/30 - Protein drink - 1 container
20/2/0/0 - EFA's - 2 capsules

411/13.5/12/63 - lunch totals



Pre workout/dinner

160/2/30/6 - 100% Whole grain bread - 2 slices
140/10/0/14 - Boiled eggs - 2 eggs
50/4.9/1.3/.1 - Light mayo - 1 tbls
180/4.5/11.20 - Protein bar - 1 bar


530/21.4/42.3/40.1 - Pre workout/dinner totals



Post workout

200/0/56/0 - Gatorade - 32oz
210/4/6/52 - Whey powder - 2 scoops
80/0/12/8 - Non fat milk - 1 cup

560/4/82/60 - Post workout totals



Before bed snack

80/0/12/8 - Non fat milk - 1 cup
180/5/8/26 - Cottage cheese 2% - 1 cup
169/11/8/10 - Natural peanut butter - 2 cup

429/16/28/44 - Before bed snack totals




2890/79/235/339 - Daily total

TDEE target: 2963 Consumed: 2890
















I need carbs AM, pre and post. Having a hard time reducing them everywhere else though without removing foods completely.

[--->>405<<---]

Ok 405 you bastard I extracted all the info for ya LOL!!!


STATS

6'1
231 lbs
29 years old
~17% bf





TDEE better TDEE/maintenance: LBM x 15 (for u 2875cals)

3069 TDEE (calculated short way. Without bf%)
-750 calorie deficit (would like a 600 deficit but the software only lets me choose 500 or 750)
2319
+644 calories burned each day (331 elliptical & 313 weights)
2963 TOTAL TDDE WITH DEFICIT

2375cals would be good IMO. 191lbs LBM
60/20/20
356g pro
118g carbs
52g fat





DIET (cals/fat/carbs/protein)



Breakfast

300/6/54/10 - Oats - 1 cup
210/4/6/52 - Whey powder - 2 scoops
20/2/0/0 - EFA's - 2 capsules

530/12/60/62 - Breakfast totals



Morning snack

50/.4/1/1.3 - Walnuts - 1 tbls fat macro says .4g???
150/1.4/0/42.1 - Tuna light - 1 can
50/4.9/1.3/.1 - Light mayo - 1 tbls if progress is slow id drop this
180/5/8/26 - Cottage cheese 2% - 1 cup

430/11.7/10.3/69.45 - Morning snack totals



Lunch

110/2.5/0/23 - Chicken breast - 4oz
31/0/6/3 - broccli - 1 cup
90/6/1/7 - cheese - 1 oz if slow progress id drop this
160/3/5/30 - Protein drink - 1 container
20/2/0/0 - EFA's - 2 capsules

411/13.5/12/63 - lunch totals



Pre workout/dinner

160/2/30/6 - 100% Whole grain bread - 2 slices same with this id have oats.
140/10/0/14 - Boiled eggs - 2 eggs
50/4.9/1.3/.1 - Light mayo - 1 tbls same here drop if slow progress. i dont like it
180/4.5/11.20 - Protein bar - 1 bar only 2 macros make up this bar? is it homemade? not a fan of bars.. id drop more than likely.


530/21.4/42.3/40.1 - Pre workout/dinner totals



Post workout

200/0/56/0 - Gatorade - 32oz sugar..hmm.. how bout a cup of oats??
210/4/6/52 - Whey powder - 2 scoops
80/0/12/8 - Non fat milk - 1 cup u know ur trying to lose fat here?

560/4/82/60 - Post workout totals



Before bed snack

80/0/12/8 - Non fat milk - 1 cup id drop it bill LOL
180/5/8/26 - Cottage cheese 2% - 1 cup
169/11/8/10 - Natural peanut butter - 2 cup

429/16/28/44 - Before bed snack totals




2890/79/235/339 - Daily total dont like these macros for cutting at all! i posted above what i think u should target.

TDEE target: 2963 Consumed: 2890
















I need carbs AM, pre and post. Having a hard time reducing them everywhere else though without removing foods completely.

this diet needs a lot of work. i tried to be somewhat lenient (against my better judgement) but there is consistently poor choices of carbs and fat all thru this diet! i suggest u drop everything i hinted at. and make some more changes. i also suggest u shoot for the macros i suggested at the top. at 180lbs LBM i cut at 2200cals IMO 2375 should be a good place to start for u! and now that we have this here where it is easy to read and manipulate isnt it a lot better!?

[billgates]

Ok before I rework it all I just have a couple of questions. For PWO I am using the milk for carbs not fat. I thought it was common place to have double the carbs as protein intake PWO and it doesn't matter if they come from simple or complex carbs. And isn't the purpose of the PWO carbs to replenish the glycogen stores as quickly as possible? Wouldn't a simple carb do that better than a complex that would take longer to break down? Also, I like how the milk slows down the disgestion process of whey, and since my PWO is late at night and only a couple hours before bed, would it not benefit me?

Also that pre workout meal is an egg salad sandwhich LOL so if I remove the mayo I'll have to remove the whole meal and replace it with something else. Why do you prefer oats over 100% whole grain bread?

Thanks for your input as always. What weight did you start at and what are you at now? How long have you been on a proper diet?

[--->>405<<---]

Ok before I rework it all I just have a couple of questions. For PWO I am using the milk for carbs not fat. I thought it was common place to have double the carbs as protein intake PWO and it doesn't matter if they come from simple or complex carbs. And isn't the purpose of the PWO carbs to replenish the glycogen stores as quickly as possible? Wouldn't a simple carb do that better than a complex that would take longer to break down? IMO ud do better to have a good pre workout complex carb followed by a post workout complex carb. its what i did and it worked well for me. there is a lot of debate about whether simple carbs PWO is good or bad. honestly i cant comment but i know what worked for me and thats what im gonna suggest.


Also, I like how the milk slows down the disgestion process of whey, and since my PWO is late at night and only a couple hours before bed, would it not benefit me? IMO if u want slower digesting protein have beef, chikn, or casein.

Also that pre workout meal is an egg salad sandwhich LOL so if I remove the mayo I'll have to remove the whole meal and replace it with something else. Why do you prefer oats over 100% whole grain bread?
IMO an egg salad sandwich with mayo is a bad food choice for a cutting diet. the only part of it thats decent IMO is the eggs. bread is an inferior carb choice IMO. oats are a staple carb choice for bodybuilders everywhere. it seems the more i study about insulin and difft nutritional ideas the more i see that nothing is set in stone. but i DO know what worked for me and thats what im trying to get u to eat. u wanna eat bread? go ahead. maybe it wont impair ur progress. but maybe it will. i KNOW oats will not! when i cut i stick with what i know.

Thanks for your input as always. What weight did you start at and what are you at now? How long have you been on a proper diet?

i started at 213lbs 22%bf
got down to 183 at my lowest and 7.8%bf and then went up to 193lbs 8%bf..

heres my original pic and 2 of my most recent pics. im no genius and i have a lot to learn but i do know how to cut off body fat!

[billgates]

i started at 213lbs 22%bf
got down to 183 at my lowest and 7.8%bf and then went up to 193lbs 8%bf..

heres my original pic and 2 of my most recent pics. im no genius and i have a lot to learn but i do know how to cut off body fat!

7.8%? Making those changes now.... LOL





Holy ****






I'm stressed out about my pre workout, it has to be something I can make and have quickly because I have it at work before leaving for school. I don't know how the hell I would prepare oats while at work. What do you suggest I do?




I just keep editing this post and adding information How come you aren't taking into consideration what calories I've burned for the day? I feel like that should have a direct effect on net calories for the day.

[--->>405<<---]

when calculating ur maintenance cals we have taken into consideration the cals u burn for the day.

rough starting maintenance: LBM x 15

ur 231lbs 17%bf
231 x .83(%LBM) = 191.73lbs LBM
191.73 x 15 = 2875cals
2875 cals - 500 (deficit) = 2375cals

2375cals
60/20/20
356g pro
118g carbs
52g fat

plain enuff??

[billgates]

when calculating ur maintenance cals we have taken into consideration the cals u burn for the day.

rough starting maintenance: LBM x 15

ur 231lbs 17%bf
231 x .83(%LBM) = 191.73lbs LBM
191.73 x 15 = 2875cals
2875 cals - 500 (deficit) = 2375cals

2375cals
60/20/20
356g pro
118g carbs
52g fat

plain enuff??

The TDEE is what I burn sitting there. The deficit is what we create in order to cut. What about the 644 calories I'm burning in the gym each day? Why are we not taking this into account? Learing this stuff is so fun! I think I'll major in health sciences instead and then master in business.

[--->>405<<---]

dude.. i guess it wasnt plain enuff. how bout this.. eat 3500cals per day bill.. that should knock the fat off! just make sure u do 30mins light cardio 3 times per week and hit the bowflex for 20mins every other day.. u should be good!

better??

[--->>405<<---]

The TDEE is what I burn sitting there. The deficit is what we create in order to cut. What about the 644 calories I'm burning in the gym each day? Why are we not taking this into account? Learing this stuff is so fun! I think I'll major in health sciences instead and then master in business.

FYI smarty pants for arguments sake BMR is what ur body burns at rest:

231 x .83(%LBM) = 191.73
191.73 x .4536 = 86.96kg LBM
(86.96 x 21.6) + 370 = 2248 BMR

read the sticky: dieting 101: cutting BILL

[billgates]

FYI smarty pants for arguments sake BMR is what ur body burns at rest:

231 x .83(%LBM) = 191.73
191.73 x .4536 = 86.96kg LBM
(86.96 x 21.6) + 370 = 2248 BMR

read the sticky: dieting 101: cutting BILL

Holy hell I'm not trying to disprove anything you're saying, only trying to better understand. As far as diets go, you are god to me. I understand BMR, but you still haven't answered my question LOL Unless maybe you have and I am still not getting it. Where in this whole daily routine of calories does the cardio and weights I burn come into play? I've read 101 and million times, but even he doesn't mention it.

[billgates]

dude.. i guess it wasnt plain enuff. how bout this.. eat 3500cals per day bill.. that should knock the fat off! just make sure u do 30mins light cardio 3 times per week and hit the bowflex for 20mins every other day.. u should be good!

better??

Hilarious

[--->>405<<---]

The cals from ur wkout and cardio is factored into ur maintenace cals. Why do u think its 637 cals higher than ur bmr???

[--->>405<<---]

Maintenace 2875cals
Bmr 2248cals

???

[--->>405<<---]

LOL on the God comment btw

[billgates]

I understand what you're saying and I believe what you have is accurate. I just have no idea how you arrived at the numbers because you are using a totally different formula than is on the 101 guide (or the link to the TDEE in that guide). Here is what I get when I use their calculation method:

66 + 1438.5 + 927.1 - 197.2 = 2234.4 BMR
x 1.55 (moderate activity)
3463.32 TDEE



Sorry going 100 mph because I'm 12 minutes on overtime right now. Running out for the gym. Will read when I get there.

[--->>405<<---]

Its a new method GBrice ets the credit for. If u wanna look into a recent thread where we go thru it look up:

Trining days vs rest days (i think its called)

The old tdee is inaccurate and too high which is why the deficit had to be 900cals below tdee. U could also use (bmr x 1.26) instead of 1.55 to get pretty close but lbm x 15 is easier to explain

[billgates]

Its a new method GBrice ets the credit for. If u wanna look into a recent thread where we go thru it look up:

Trining days vs rest days (i think its called)

The old tdee is inaccurate and too high which is why the deficit had to be 900cals below tdee. U could also use (bmr x 1.26) instead of 1.55 to get pretty close but lbm x 15 is easier to explain

Ok well il just have to follow this math and these principles for myself. It's a shame though because if I start dropping fat and one or two of my buddies at the gym ask for help or an explanation I won't be able to exactly explain. Each of them are different. Some do no Cardio, some do a ton of Cardio. I don't think LBMx15 will work for all of them.

I will follow this to the T though for myself. Will start reconstructing the diet again tomorrow. Actually I have all of it done except I deleted the section for pre work out and just wrote "NO ****ING CLUE" LOL

[NEMESIS RR]

i started at 213lbs 22%bf
got down to 183 at my lowest and 7.8%bf and then went up to 193lbs 8%bf..

heres my original pic and 2 of my most recent pics. im no genius and i have a lot to learn but i do know how to cut off body fat!

.

405 what is your bodyfat percentage in the middle picture?

[billgates]

Hope you had a great weekend god of food. Going to figure out the final remaining piece of my diet puzzle (pre workout) today. Couple of questions.

I have been doing 30min of cardio post workout to avoid having to go to the gym twice a day. Do you HIGHLY reccommend dropping it in place of the AM fasted cardio? Also so by your reccomendation, I should have NO cheat days during the week and shoot for this diet consistently every single day, except for on the 14th day bump carbs to 250g? Would LBMx15 work for a buddy of mine who is same height but with a higher body fat percentage with less muscle? Would it work for my girlfriend? lol

Talk to you soon man. Going to look at options for pre workout while I wait for your response.

[--->>405<<---]

[QUOTE=billgates;6165181]Hope you had a great weekend god of food. Going to figure out the final remaining piece of my diet puzzle (pre workout) today. Couple of questions.

I have been doing 30min of cardio post workout to avoid having to go to the gym twice a day. Do you HIGHLY reccommend dropping it in place of the AM fasted cardio?

i prefer am fasted cardio over PWO. this may be due to the fact that it works better with my schedule and ive had excellent results with it. Lyle MacDonald refers to a phenomenon called "phantom tingles" that u get when doing am fasted cardio. basically once i start heating up all of a sudden i get itchy all over my chest and back. he cant prove it conclusively but speculates this is evidence of ur body mobilizing the fat cells into the blood for oxidation and the itching is a by-product of that mobilization.

Also so by your reccomendation, I should have NO cheat days during the week and shoot for this diet consistently every single day, except for on the 14th day bump carbs to 250g?

personally i suggest going 4 weeks without a cheat (except the refeed every 14 days) to CEMENT ur commitment to ur diet to urself. this will get u into a good consistent routine and also hopefully cause u to shift ur focus on food from pleasure to fuel and a means to an end. it IMO will also cause u to be more deliberate when planning a cheat due to the weeks commitment u have already successfully made.

Would LBMx15 work for a buddy of mine who is same height but with a higher body fat percentage with less muscle? Would it work for my girlfriend? lol

(LBM x 15) should work for most people as a STARTING POINT ROUGH MAINTENANCE. tweaks may have to be made. the key is LBM. u must know ur bf% to know ur LBM. LBM is ur (total weight - fat weight).

Talk to you soon man. Going to look at options for pre workout while I wait for your response

IMO good preworkout is meat and oats or protein powder and oats.

[billgates]

Have any creative ways of preparing oats apart from grinding them up or just cooking them in water?

[--->>405<<---]

oatmeal pancakes.. very good.. chek out a thread called 405's recipes and i think its also in the recipe section.

the way i make em i think theres like 90g carbs 60g protein in the entire recipe. maybe 12g fat. i think i posted the macro info in the recipe section as well.

[billgates]

oatmeal pancakes.. very good.. chek out a thread called 405's recipes and i think its also in the recipe section.

the way i make em i think theres like 90g carbs 60g protein in the entire recipe. maybe 12g fat. i think i posted the macro info in the recipe section as well.

All of my questions have been answered. I will spend the rest of the day reading the recipe sticky. My next post will be of my newly constructed diet.

[--->>405<<---]

most of those recipes are for bulking. i suppose they will work for cutting with the exception of the pasta. i am anal about pasta and would not eat it on a strait low carb diet..

[gearbox]

Have any creative ways of preparing oats apart from grinding them up or just cooking them in water?

I use crystal light to grind them up instead of water. They taste bomb

[--->>405<<---]

I use crystal light to grind them up instead of water. They taste bomb

u mean u grind em and add crystal light and then cook em or what? eat em dry?

[billgates]

Ok 405 I'm brainstorming some ideas for my prework out. It has to be convenient and heatable in a microwave. What if I made a huge batch of brown fried rice with a ton of egg and beef in it at the beginning of the week. And then just have a serving of that with maybe a boiled egg or 2 before my workout? Then I could prepare that once on sunday when I do my tuna for the week.

Also what are your thoughts on brown vs white rice? They are both complex carbs, and the only real benefit I can find that brown has over white is that there is a lot more fiber.

[--->>405<<---]

[QUOTE=billgates;6165589]

Ok 405 I'm brainstorming some ideas for my prework out. It has to be convenient and heatable in a microwave.

why does it have to be hot?

What if I made a huge batch of brown fried rice with a ton of egg and beef in it at the beginning of the week. And then just have a serving of that with maybe a boiled egg or 2 before my workout? Then I could prepare that once on sunday when I do my tuna for the week.

keep an eye on ur fat macro. u wanna try not to have a lot of fat with a lot of carbs. use 96%FF beef. watch the oil.

Also what are your thoughts on brown vs white rice? They are both complex carbs, and the only real benefit I can find that brown has over white is that there is a lot more fiber.

im anal when cutting and personally dont like the potentiaL risk i associate with brn vs white. a personal pref of mine. theoretically it shouldnt matter either way but i actually like brn rice.

livestrongdotcom says:
To refine brown rice into white rice, a process known as polishing, producers remove the grain's outer shell, called the bran, as well as the grain's nutrient storehouse, called the germ. All that remains is the endosperm, the starchy part of the grain that is nearly devoid of nutrients other than carbohydrates. After refining, most white rice is enriched to add back in vital nutrients like iron and folic acid.

Missing Nutrients
Because it lacks the bran and the germ, white rice is largely devoid of fiber, and deficient in the essential fatty acids, minerals and vitamins found in brown rice. Although some of these nutrients are added to enriched white rice, it's preferable to receive nutrients from natural foods, rather than enriched ones, whenever possible. Enriching rice also does not compensate for the lack of fiber. Fiber has numerous health benefits such as promoting digestive health and contributing to a feeling of fullness after eating. Although it's unclear what precise nutrient deficiency is to blame, there is also evidence that eating less white rice and more brown rice impacts your risk of diabetes. In a 2010 study, researchers from the Harvard School of Public Health found that eating at least five servings of white rice per week corresponded with an increased risk of Type 2 diabetes, while eating at least two servings of brown rice per week corresponded to a lower risk.

[billgates]

I guess what I should have said is that IF it needs to be heated it has to be done via microwave. Also I don't necessarily have to "fry" the rice. I can cook it in a rice cooker and then mix all the ingredients together to reheat later. If I were to fry it all in a wok, I would use the bare minimum I could get away with of olive oil. I will be careful on the cuts of beef and pork to ensure as much fat as possible has been extracted.

I think this pre workout will serve me well. I will calulate the portions and macros and add it back into the diet in a minute.