4-AD question - stack with 19-Nordione or 19-Nordiol?

[bohemius]

Hi all, I've finished doing my research and I am ready to go on a 4-AD cycle but I am not sure whether to stack it with 19-Norandrostenedione or 19-Norandrodiol... I read an excellent article by Big Cat over on bb.com and in it he states that 4-AD should be stacked with 19-Norandrostenedione because 4-AD is a diol and if you used 19-Norandrodiol you would have 2 diols fighting for the same receptor enzyme. However, the 19-Nordiol appears to be a much better prohormone, with a higher conversion rate and less chance of aromatisation - I much rather use this one but I would use the dione if it definitely is a better choice.

To further complicate things, I read the great article on this board by LM1332 who recommends 19-nordiol + 4-AD. Also, the dosages he recommends are quite a bit higher than Big Cat's.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated as I am seriously confused.... I am listing both people's recommended stacks with dosages.... I am 29 years old, 6' tall and 250 lbs - how much of this stuff should I be taking - 5-600mg of each as Big Cat recommends or the whopping 900mg-1.2g that LM1332 recommends?

Big Cat's recommended stack:

Week 1 through 8, use 250 mg of 19-Norandrostenedione after breakfast and again after dinner and take 500 mg of 4-diol 45-30 minutes prior to workout or 250 mg after lunch on non-workout days.

LM1332's recommended stack:

19-Nordiol: 300-500 mg transdermal, 900-1.2 g oral. 4-AD: 300-500 mg transdermal, 900-1.2 g oral.

[priest_416]

try out the 19-Nor Androstack 2. Maybe even get some 1-AD. I have taken alot of andro when i was younger, and I usually stacked 1-AD, with 4-AD,Androstenediol 300, and some 19-Nor androstack 2. Is this your first time using andro? How old are you?

[bohemius]

Thanks for the reply... I'm 29, been weightlifting off and on since 16, pretty seriously the last 2 years.... I don't want to mess with 1-test or 1-ad at this time, just 4-ad with one of the 19-nors...

Is 19-Nor Androstack 2 diol or dione?

[nsa]

Why are you scared of 1-ad or 1-test?

[bohemius]

From all the research I've done it seems that 1-AD has many more sides than 4-AD... my main concern here is safety, being that this will be my first time using prohormones... 4-AD seems the best bet as far as low sides/results ratio goes.

Now I am even considering just using 4-AD by itself - 900mg/day for 6 weeks... could I expect some gains from this? I know it won't be anything compared to 1-AD & 4-AD or M1T & 4-AD but again, my main concern is safety not packing on 20lbs of muscle.

Thanks!

[priest_416]

Thanks for the reply... I'm 29, been weightlifting off and on since 16, pretty seriously the last 2 years.... I don't want to mess with 1-test or 1-ad at this time, just 4-ad with one of the 19-nors...

Is 19-Nor Androstack 2 diol or dione?

19-Nor Androstack 2 contains the following:

-19-Nor Andrstenedione:200mg
-4 Androstenediol:200mg
-19-Nor-4 Androstenediol:100mg
-Androstenedoine:100mg
-Tribulus Terrestris:250mg
-Saw Palmetto:200mg
-Chrysin(dihydroxyflavone):200mg
-Zinc Picolinate:50mg

you can purchase this at bodybuilding.com
-30 capsules:$27.89
-60 capsules:$49.89
-120 capsules:$88.89

take only two capsules daily

[nsa]

1-ad doesn't have bad sides. M1t does. IMO your not going to gain much if anything from 4-ad, its going to supress you hpta and not give you much mass gains.

[bohemius]

nsa - thanks a lot for you feedback... so you would recommend 1-AD with the 4-AD over 4-AD by itself or even the 4-AD with 19-Nordione or 19-Nordiol? I know 1-AD and 4-AD is a pretty common stack, and if I am going to be supressing my htpa I would like to at least get some gains out of it. Is the 1-AD & 4-AD stack recommended for a first timer? Also, what would the dosages be - given that I am 250 I believe I need to be taking 900mg of 4-AD - how much 1-AD with that?

Thanks again!

[nsa]

My suggestion would be:
Week 1-6: 4AD 800 mg
Week 1-6: 1AD 800 mg

Take 3 even doses spread out 6 hours or at least half the days total every 12 hours. The gains won't be huge, but they will definately be more than 4-ad alone or 4-ad and 19-nor