Best 4-ad

**Vale Tudo** · 07-27-2004, 08:08 AM

Getting ready to start NSA's suggested cycle and was just curious what brand of 4-ad you would recommend purchasing? Also what role does the hawthorne berry extract play in this cycle? I am excited about this new venture as I feel the strength I gain from this can really benefit my other training. Oh one more question, how much "bloat" can be expected to be put on during this cycle? Thanks in advance for your knowledge!

Venni, Vetti, Vecci!!!

**nsa** · 07-27-2004, 09:47 AM

Hawthorne beery is to keep your Blood Pressure from skyrocketing. As for the 4-ad 4-derm the gel was the best but for some reason they stopped making it, so as of right now i think 4-aderm is the best.

**birsling** · 07-27-2004, 10:54 AM

I also like 4-Derm. I used it in the exact same cycle you are looking at, and got great results. Go with the 4 derm spray

**nsa** · 07-27-2004, 10:57 AM

Birsling, Did you use 4-derm the gel or 4-aderm the spray?

**birsling** · 07-27-2004, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by nsa

Birsling, Did you use 4-derm the gel or 4-aderm the spray?

spray. I didn't see the gel available. If you can get gel, I would get it. The spray has a lot of waste involved, and can get messy. The gel would allow you to conserve the product much better.

**nsa** · 07-27-2004, 11:01 AM

Yeah, i've been looking for a gel ever since the 4-derm gel was discontinued.

**birsling** · 07-27-2004, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by nsa

Yeah, i've been looking for a gel ever since the 4-derm gel was discontinued.

Don't know why they would discontinue the gel. How was the pricing? Comparable? Hey bro, check your PM. I have a clomid question for you

**nsa** · 07-27-2004, 11:07 AM

Got it, check your pm's. Seriously it was like the same as the spray, i think it was stupid to stop making it.

**birsling** · 07-27-2004, 11:11 AM

Thanks for the info bro. I don't know why they would stop making it either. Maybe they like the idea of wasted product so you come back for more.

**nsa** · 07-27-2004, 11:13 AM

Wow, thats sucks what you pm'ed me. It shouldn't be too bad for you though. Worst i think you would get is a little depressed and/or start breaking out.

**birsling** · 07-27-2004, 11:18 AM

Yeah, no sides from it. Just a waste of money I guess. Better safe than sorry though right?

**nsa** · 07-27-2004, 11:24 AM

Yeah. Just so you know, most research companies make products in dosing per ml equal to what is the common dose of pill form. Unless labeled otherwise.

**birsling** · 07-27-2004, 11:27 AM

cool thanks again

**nsa** · 07-27-2004, 11:32 AM

No problem.

**Vale Tudo** · 07-27-2004, 11:53 AM

Yup ok lost now. I went to bulknutrition.com and tried searching for the 4-ad. Any suggestions to which brand I should be looking at?

**birsling** · 07-27-2004, 12:16 PM

Dermabolics bro. 4-derm by Dermabolics. It is available through bulk nutrition for 19.99 (if I remember right)

**Vale Tudo** · 07-27-2004, 12:38 PM

Yes you are correct. I found it there. So a 4 week cycle of this I should get roughly 3 bottles? My math is off today. Also, is it possible to do this cycle and still stay relativly lean depending on diet? I do not see cardio being a problem because I train 4 times a week in the MMA (Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, Muay thai, grappling, and boxing). Also just wanted to thank the 2 of you for your knowledge thus far!! Thanks a ton!

**birsling** · 07-27-2004, 12:45 PM

No problem bro. I would get 2 bottles. I did, and didn't even use it all. I stayed very lean while cycling. I actually didn't gain a lot of weight (only 4 lbs) but my BF% dropped. So you can stay lean depending on your diet and workout regimen. I found the biggest benefit in strength increases also. It was amazing!

**Vale Tudo** · 07-27-2004, 12:46 PM

D*** thats good! Is that pic on your profile a before and after of this cycle?

**birsling** · 07-27-2004, 12:52 PM

No, not from this cycle. The second pic was during this cycle. I am leaner now than in those pics, and worlds stronger! I am in PCT of the cycle I just did. After that, I will cut, and then on to bigger and better worlds, I think. Here are two links to check out if you want more on what I did on cycle:

Diary: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=107657

Pics: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=107894

**Vale Tudo** · 07-27-2004, 01:01 PM

Wow man thats motivating. I am just now getting back into the game. I am 28 and married w/ 2 kids, so time is of the essence now. I am 5'10" and tipping the scale at about 210. But have just been very very lazy, pregnant wife = eat what she eats! LOL!!! I have always responded well to training, I just feel I need a jump start as this point in my life. I can't wait to bang on a heavy bag at about week 3 of this cycle. BUT again VERY VERY VERY good gains my friend. I will be happy if I see 1/2 your success.