cutting and fat burners

**Venum** · 09-21-2006, 07:09 AM

so what really is the deal with fat burners? are they even worth it? how will i benefit from using a fat burning suppliment? i am cutting, diet is in check, i cant take ephedra because i am too sensitive, so is there anything out there without ephedra that actual helps u loose fat?

**yodaddy** · 09-21-2006, 08:18 AM

Amp...enough Said My Man

**Venum** · 09-21-2006, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by yodaddy

Amp...enough Said My Man

i dont know anything about it, i'll look into it. thanks.

**Hyperlite** · 10-02-2006, 06:33 PM

I've used various products in various ways....From personal experience, Lipo-6 EF worked the best....

**Note: i've used Hydroxycut, Xenadrine, Stacker 3, Lipo-6, and a Vitamin World brand that mimiced Xenadrine...

Haven't used AMP yet though

**hardgainer12** · 10-02-2006, 06:36 PM

amp isnt used as a fat burner. its only recommended at 3x a week. thats only 3 days. 3/7 isnt going to be that effective

**305GUY** · 10-02-2006, 06:39 PM

Ecy..

**hardgainer12** · 10-02-2006, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by 305GUY

Ecy..

whats the Y stand for?

**305GUY** · 10-02-2006, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by hardgainer12

whats the Y stand for?

yohimbine hcl.. 5mg with every EC stack and your golden.. i live by that shiat!

**CoreyTampa09** · 10-02-2006, 06:59 PM

Personally man this is what I think you should do. EC stack has become expensive. 10 bucks or so for 24 x 3 for a supply for your cut +7 for caffeine. Pick up a bottle of amp, 1 Ephedra Free Fatburner i.e Lipo Six, and 1 pack of ECA. On AM cardio use the EC stack, workout combine amp and Lipo, and keep cycling. I find this to work for me as my body cant adjust to all 3 stimulants.

**wileyjones** · 10-03-2006, 08:37 PM

EC, thermorexin and AMP are all good

**Venum** · 10-04-2006, 12:00 PM

what is ec? who makes it?

**305GUY** · 10-04-2006, 12:03 PM

Originally Posted by Venum

what is ec? who makes it?

ephedrine and caffeine.. sold seperately.

25mg ephedrine
200mg caffeine
5mg yohimbine hcl..

2-3 x day

**Venum** · 10-04-2006, 07:13 PM

would fat burners really make that much of a difference i bet its 99% diet..i dont need to mess with that stuff. i'll just take my amp for energy boosts here and there.

**BrokenBricks** · 10-05-2006, 09:25 PM

ECA is the king of fat burners period. Nothing else comes close to the amount of research done which proves its effectiveness. Some of these new things may work, its virtually garunteed most wont, and all you can go on to chose is anecdotal evidence. As far as ECY, the Y might be of some benifit, but ditching the asprin doesnt sit well with me. Asprin is a COX inhibitor which lowers prostagladin synthesis. The mechanism of action of Ephedrine depends on activation of CAMP in fat cells which turns on lipase and breaks down fat. But this effect is under regualtion by prostaglandins and will quickly be compensated for. Aspin blocks this and therfore drasticaly slows down you bodys ability to adapt to the Elphedine, meaning the fat loss is maintained longer.

**Venum** · 10-05-2006, 09:57 PM

so who makes the eca stuff? whats a popular one to get?

**BrokenBricks** · 10-05-2006, 10:32 PM

I read something about Utah making ephedra weightloss suplements legal again, but as far as I can tell its still illegal to market wieght loss products with ephedra. Now im sure you can buy the stuff online somewhere and have it shipped to you but, meh. I buy ephedrine (the active part of the ephedra herb) as a broncodilator. It is sold over the counter in alot of gas stations. If you really cannot find it you can buy about 300 25 mg pills of it (the recomended dose) for about 80 bucks at dnepharm.com. That should last at least a year. You would have lost all the weight you want in that amount of time. The caffine and asprin can be bought at the grocery store in bulk cheaply. You just take 25 mg ephedrine, your 200 or so mg caffine pill and your 200-300 mg asprin pill at once. Bam, instant ECA stack. YOu can pay some company to sell you the same thing but its not worth it.

I will say this, I remember the old xenadrine (the first big ECA stack) as being more pleasant than my ECA. one of their ingredients might have something to do with that. Synephrine is a likely candidate but it could be anything. So if you got a Xenadrine rip of, it might be worth it. But I have tried some knock offs of xenadrine without the ephedra where i added my own epherda and it wasnt like the original. Maybe I was just a ECA virgin before and it was phsycological. Dunno.

Anyway, if i am certain of anything, its that ECA stacks WORK. You will NOT be hungry. And you WILL burn more calories, alot more.

One last thing. I remeber the first day i tried the xenadrine ECA. It was freaky and not pleasant. I found that I needed only a half dose to start and to this day i still start with a half done of my own, breaking the ephedrine pill in half, for the first week back on the stuff. The asprin and caffine are really irrelavant, they modify the action of the ephdrine and prolong it. over our under dosing those two are not 1/10th as important as the ephedrine.

**wileyjones** · 10-09-2006, 01:42 PM

I use and reccomend pure ephedrine hcl, Kaizen 8mg tabs. Ephedra is just not nearly as good or as "clean" feeling.

I like to run pure ephedrine + caffiene 24/200 three times a day for 2-3 weeks then thermorexin for 2-3 weeks. Occasionally using AMP on the weekends mostly (where its not as essential that I sleep)

**chuck89gt5.0** · 10-09-2006, 09:18 PM

I've actually have had pretty good results with hydroxy cut hardcore, even though I dont care for muscle tech I think this stuff works well.
It make me not feel so great but it is helping burn the fat, I like any supplement that you can feel working, and you can really feel this stuff.

**MoneyAddyct** · 10-10-2006, 10:04 AM

How come no one's said clen ?

**JohnboyF** · 10-10-2006, 10:06 AM

Because he is really senstive. to fat burners. and he just got a solid diet in tact..

**MoneyAddyct** · 10-10-2006, 11:49 AM

Oh my bad...I missed the sensitive to ephedra part. Makes sense now.

**Venum** · 10-10-2006, 05:27 PM

well I am able to handle one scoop of no-explode and 2 AMP pills pre-work out...is it bad to mix the no-explode and the amp???

**ascendant** · 10-10-2006, 10:31 PM

Originally Posted by BrokenBricks

ECA is the king of fat burners period.

nah, i have to disagree. clen has it beat hands down for me and many others. an ECA stack tends to have more side-affects for most in comparison to clen. clen is safer and easier to work with considering it's one compound compared to mixing 3 together every day. however, considering he said he can't take ephedra, i'm assuming clen would be too much as well.

another fat burner that works really good is hydroxycut hardcore. that stuff worked almost as good as clen. increased fat loss and no increase in muscle loss. worked great for me.

**ascendant** · 10-10-2006, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by Hyperlite

I've used various products in various ways....From personal experience, Lipo-6 EF worked the best....

again, i have to disagree (at least on a personal note from experience). lipo6 was as bad as t3 for me. by that i mean it indiscriminately burned both fat AND muscle tissue.

i have to ask you hyperlite, did you regularly check your bf% while using lipo6 or just go by the scale? if going by the scale, sure, you'd lose more weight. however, when i took lipo6, i went from losing only bf prior to taking it to losing 50% fat, 50% muscle while taking it. that stuff was crap and i would strongly advise against it.

**Giants11** · 10-11-2006, 08:36 AM

Originally Posted by ascendant

nah, i have to disagree. clen has it beat hands down for me and many others. an ECA stack tends to have more side-affects for most in comparison to clen. clen is safer and easier to work with considering it's one compound compared to mixing 3 together every day. however, considering he said he can't take ephedra, i'm assuming clen would be too much as well.

another fat burner that works really good is hydroxycut hardcore. that stuff worked almost as good as clen. increased fat loss and no increase in muscle loss. worked great for me.

Bro are you out of your mind.

Clen has been shown to show myocyte death within Rat Models. Granted that doesn mean it's true in Humans, but it's also the reason Clen is not able to be prescribed in the US.

Also ephedrine has been studied a very long time and there are no negative reports that I am aware of. Most of the death by ephedrine is due to Media hype, ephedrine is one of the most studied and safest fat loss promoting agents there are.

**Venum** · 10-12-2006, 08:50 AM

well where can I find some ephedine to try? Its been a while I can handle AMP, so I am sure I can handle some ephedrine as well.

**Giants11** · 10-12-2006, 09:59 AM

It's around, search for Vasporo.

SVTMuscle* · 10-12-2006, 10:15 AM

I will agree with the other guys, AMP by Ergopharms is like Meth! it's phenominal
(outside of Clen of course)

**CoreyTampa09** · 10-12-2006, 12:41 PM

Is Lions Clen the cheapest and best out there attainable on the web...or are there others?

**Venum** · 10-12-2006, 01:11 PM

i love my amp i wish i could use it everyday

**ascendant** · 10-14-2006, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Giants11

Bro are you out of your mind.

Clen has been shown to show myocyte death within Rat Models. Granted that doesn mean it's true in Humans, but it's also the reason Clen is not able to be prescribed in the US.

Also ephedrine has been studied a very long time and there are no negative reports that I am aware of. Most of the death by ephedrine is due to Media hype, ephedrine is one of the most studied and safest fat loss promoting agents there are.

what does me being out of my mind have to do with anything?

anyway, as you said, the studies indicated myocyte death in rats, not humans. also, nowadays anything can kill you, so unless there's substantial evidence showing serious issues, i'm not worried about it. breathing air kills brains cells to a limited extent, so what difference is a few more going to make?

as far as ephedra's safety, you're just talking about ephedra alone. however, when doing an ECA stack, that's when i feel the clen is safer. though you may disagree, i know many others who would agree with this one. in all actuality though, the chances of either of them doing any serious damage to you is minimal anyway, so i say whatever works for you. however, clen was far more effective for me personally.

**Chad B** · 10-14-2006, 10:06 PM

Originally Posted by Venum

so what really is the deal with fat burners? are they even worth it? how will i benefit from using a fat burning suppliment? i am cutting, diet is in check, i cant take ephedra because i am too sensitive, so is there anything out there without ephedra that actual helps u loose fat?

I had to through out all my ephedra because it made me feel like I was on speed and I was looking and acting like a tweeker.

I can handle caffeine no problem but when you add eph I’m tweeken.

Just drink a lot of unsweetened green tea bro with a good diet.

**chuck89gt5.0** · 10-14-2006, 10:32 PM

Originally Posted by CoreyTampa09

Is Lions Clen the cheapest and best out there attainable on the web...or are there others?

there are others, better and cheaper.....

**CoreyTampa09** · 10-14-2006, 10:53 PM

Could you tell me if you dont mind considering I was going to buy some this tuesday.

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