Upstate youll hate this stack M1T/SD

[Manpretty]

so im going to run an M1T/Superdrol cycle
M1T will be dosed at 20mged
SD will be dosed at 30mged

week 1: M1T 10mged SD 10mged
week 2-6: M1T 20mged SD 30mged

ancilliaries: 1000mg Milk Thistle, 1200mg RYR, 60mg CoQ10, 3g Taurine ed


pct will include

day1: 60mg nova
day2-11: 40mg nova
day 11-21: 20mg nova

yeah yeah yeah my liver will be shot.....but besides the overexaggerated liver problems you guys will tell me about is there anything im missing?

hahahha yeah a brain real funny .......i got to it before you
oh i can get Phera Plex to....what do you guys think of it compared to SD

[abobo316]

isnt too smart to run one of those on their own any more than 4 weeks, never mind the both combined...

and you're PCT is way too short..for a 6 week cycle 3 week PCT is DEFINITLEY not enough!

[Manpretty]

isnt too smart to run one of those on their own any more than 4 weeks, never mind the both combined...

and you're PCT is way too short..for a 6 week cycle 3 week PCT is DEFINITLEY not enough!

no what would you suggest?

[UpstateTank]

well its apparent you're pretty set on doing this cycle, so "lecturing" you isnt going to do any good...just realize there could be some pretty bad consequences from running this cycle

anywho...
first things first: up your milk thistle to at least 2500mg/day--its dirt cheap and you're gonna need all the protection you can get

Second Add in flush free nicain for some cholesterol support: at least 1100mg/day & hawthorne berry for bp-at least 1650mg/day

Third:
I wouldnt run this cycle for 6 weeks...4 weeks individually is enough for these oral roids, let alone 6 weeks combined?? IMO you're really pushing the boundary there.

Fourth:
PCT-Now this brings an interesting perdicament...as most members have found the best way to run sd pct is clomid/aromasin , while the most often suggested pct for m1t was nolva/clomid...dont really know what to tell you here other than 3 weeks isnt gonna cut it, and you're (probably) gonna need more than just nolva

Fifth:
If I could make one last suggestion, DONT RUN THIS CYCLE!!!! What are you looking to get out of it anyways? People have reported anywheres between 10-20lb gain running each respective compound individually. Whats your previous experience w/ steroids ? If this is your first time you're making on hell of a jump bro. Whats your diet like? I truly hope you take this last bit of advice, and opt not to run this asinine cycle (no flame intended bro). <--i kno i said i wouldnt lecture but i had to

-UpstateTank

[Manpretty]

Fourth:
PCT-Now this brings an interesting perdicament...as most members have found the best way to run sd pct is clomid/aromasin, while the most often suggested pct for m1t was nolva/clomid...dont really know what to tell you here other than 3 weeks isnt gonna cut it, and you're (probably) gonna need more than just nolva

Fifth:
If I could make one last suggestion, DONT RUN THIS CYCLE!!!! What are you looking to get out of it anyways? People have reported anywheres between 10-20lb gain running each respective compound individually. Whats your previous experience w/ steroids? If this is your first time you're making on hell of a jump bro. Whats your diet like? I truly hope you take this last bit of advice, and opt not to run this asinine cycle (no flame intended bro). <--i kno i said i wouldnt lecture but i had to

-UpstateTank

ok state i know your cautious about 17aa....thats why i said youll hate this stack....but you have a good base of knowledge on both these compounds and wanted your suggestions about how the cycle could be run more effectivily/safely and your right lectures wont help

thanks for the advice on the ancilliaries

yes three weeks might be a bit short but i think i will need no more than 4weeks to recover....i generally do so quickly.....after my tbol/winny cycle it took only two weeks for test levels to return with only 20mg nova ed. no i did not get BW after the cycle but i was gauging it on how much i was riding my gf

you know that nova/clomid is redundant.....both are serm's
and you suggested clomid/aromasin but aromasin has a neg influence on Lipid values which would counter act the sup support you suggested, further to that nova has a pos effect on lipid values and thus i would run just nova

[K.Biz]

well its apparent you're pretty set on doing this cycle, so "lecturing" you isnt going to do any good...just realize there could be some pretty bad consequences from running this cycle

anywho...
first things first: up your milk thistle to at least 2500mg/day--its dirt cheap and you're gonna need all the protection you can get

Second Add in flush free nicain for some cholesterol support: at least 1100mg/day & hawthorne berry for bp-at least 1650mg/day

Third:
I wouldnt run this cycle for 6 weeks...4 weeks individually is enough for these oral roids, let alone 6 weeks combined?? IMO you're really pushing the boundary there.

Fourth:
PCT-Now this brings an interesting perdicament...as most members have found the best way to run sd pct is clomid/aromasin , while the most often suggested pct for m1t was nolva/clomid...dont really know what to tell you here other than 3 weeks isnt gonna cut it, and you're (probably) gonna need more than just nolva

Fifth:
If I could make one last suggestion, DONT RUN THIS CYCLE!!!! What are you looking to get out of it anyways? People have reported anywheres between 10-20lb gain running each respective compound individually. Whats your previous experience w/ steroids ? If this is your first time you're making on hell of a jump bro. Whats your diet like? I truly hope you take this last bit of advice, and opt not to run this asinine cycle (no flame intended bro). <--i kno i said i wouldnt lecture but i had to

-UpstateTank

[notorious_mem]

u can do it.

[Manpretty]

u can do it.

what exactly can i do? the cycle?
hhahaha im awesome i can do lots of things you gotta be more specific!

[UpstateTank]

ok state i know your cautious about 17aa....thats why i said youll hate this stack....but you have a good base of knowledge on both these compounds and wanted your suggestions about how the cycle could be run more effectivily/safely and your right lectures wont help

thanks for the advice on the ancilliaries

yes three weeks might be a bit short but i think i will need no more than 4weeks to recover....i generally do so quickly.....after my tbol/winny cycle it took only two weeks for test levels to return with only 20mg nova ed. no i did not get BW after the cycle but i was gauging it on how much i was riding my gf

you know that nova/clomid is redundant.....both are serm's
and you suggested clomid/aromasin but aromasin has a neg influence on Lipid values which would counter act the sup support you suggested, further to that nova has a pos effect on lipid values and thus i would run just nova

I now see this isnt your first time using roids, but at the same time this is imo a big "step up" from tbol/winny (even though m1t and sd are both OTC)...I still wouldnt risk it w/ only a 3 week pct after a proposed 6-week cycle on some of the most powerful, toxic oral roids ever created

Yes I'm aware they are both SERM's, but they wouldnt be redundant...they both function via seperate mechanisms: nolva main purpose is to block the estrogen spike once you come of cycle, whlie clomid mainly serves as a way to upstart your HPTA

And aromasin is not as harsh on lipid profiles in comparison to other AI's...The reason being is b/c Aromasin does not nerf all estrogen floating about your body (as happens with other AI's, which is what makes them hard on your lipid values..i.e. no estrogen = messed up lipid profiles).

The one thing about nolva you're forgetting...it can possibly lead to delayed gyno when used w/ superdrol...nolva upregulates your body's progesterone receptors and superdrol (although more or less a dht-derivative) has progestinic properties, thus placing you at risk of developing gyno...a few members on here can attest to that.

**Somone correct me if I'm wrong**

[UpstateTank]

I'm honestly stumped as to what an effective pct would be for this cycle

Maybe try shooting Bryan2 a PM

[UpstateTank]

what exactly can i do? the cycle?
hhahaha im awesome i can do lots of things you gotta be more specific!

ya just gotta work on your self esteem now!

[Manpretty]

from steroid .com
clomid
"It also opposes the negative feedback loop that the body has with regards to estrogen and the HPTA (Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular-Axis), and this in turn stimulates LH (Leutenizing Hormone) and FSH (Follicle Stimulating Hormone). LH and FSH, in turn stimulate the release of testosterone "

nova
"20mgs of Nolvadex will raise your testosterone levels about 150% (5)...and this would of course greatly aid post-cycle-recovery. What this means to us is that if you take Nolvadex after a cycle, when you are trying to raise your levels of testosterone , LH, and FSH back to normal, it will greatly aid recovery"

IMO that is the same mechanism

and i dont think there is a need to shut down estro production by 85% via aromasin . i dont feel this would speed recovery any

[Manpretty]

thanks for the input tank....i do appreciate it

dont hate me because i hate my liver hahhaha jj

[Manpretty]

oh and from what i read Phera-plex is basicly the same but stronger......... anyone have an opinion or try it themselves

[UpstateTank]

^^
No hatin here...just lookin out for fellow AR brothers is all!

Def keep me updated though

[italianplayboy09]

get ready to be the most lethargic you ever thought was possible. make a log for this cycle if you could

[UpstateTank]

^^
Shizzle that reminded me

Ester Vitamin C-6g/day
1g, 1 hr pre workout, 1g immediatly pwo then divide the rest up evenly throughout the day...if you find you're still lethargic up the dose

and vitamin e
400iu 1 hr preworkout, 400iu immediately pwo

[Manpretty]

^^
Shizzle that reminded me

Ester Vitamin C-6g/day
1g, 1 hr pre workout, 1g immediatly pwo then divide the rest up evenly throughout the day...if you find you're still lethargic up the dose

and vitamin e
400iu 1 hr preworkout, 400iu immediately pwo

excelent thanks for the help my friend

[Manpretty]

get ready to be the most lethargic you ever thought was possible. make a log for this cycle if you could

ill see what i can do, maybe weekly im not as dedicated as state is.......
as soon as i clean this diet up then ill be ready to go........school is killin my diet right now 830am to 430 pm everyday, i find it hard to pack a decent food supply for that period of time and then i end up buying egg salad sandwidges and milk cause thats the only moderately healthy thing

[notorious_mem]

what exactly can i do? the cycle?
hhahaha im awesome i can do lots of things you gotta be more specific!

piss blood in week 5. but then again iim getting myself ready for a 6 week halo winztrol cycle.

[NightTrain]

piss blood in week 5. but then again iim getting myself ready for a 6 week halo winztrol cycle.

i think you will be ok with the halo and winztrol..... they aint methylated... just keep your supps where they need to be.... good luck Notorious

[Schmidty]

I would make PCT longer and go down to 4wks instead

[suzuki99]

youre taking one of the most toxic prohormones (m1t) and stacking it with another that is potentially toxic and extending the cycle for longer than recommended; you are asking for trouble. do yourself a favor listen to what everyone is saying, dont stack those two compounds or run them for that long.

[Manpretty]

^^^^
really not interested in parrots thanks... any info on making THIS cycle more effective/safe is awesome

IMO liver damage is overstated
for you parrots that have no real data on this ill thank you not to comment
upstate and i talked via pm about this and i understand where he is coming from.....the rest of you however.....no thanks

[Manpretty]

if you havent read the whole thread....ive takin 2 17aa before im still alive and to boot my liver values were nothing to get my panties in a bunch about

[suzuki99]

haha alright bud, rip

[Schmidty]

if you havent read the whole thread....ive takin 2 17aa before im still alive and to boot my liver values were nothing to get my panties in a bunch about

thats what I was thinkin

[IronAdam]

IMO liver damage is overstated
for you parrots that have no real data on this ill thank you not to comment
upstate and i talked via pm about this and i understand where he is coming from.....the rest of you however.....no thanks

No one else will say it but your proposed cycle is absolutely retarded. How old are you and how long do you plan on needing a functioning liver? The possibility of liver damage is a very real one and you're a fool not to take this more seriously. If you're dead set on doing this cycle and are aware of the risks, why did you post? Anyone with a brain will tell you that cycle sucks!

[Manpretty]

No one else will say it but your proposed cycle is absolutely retarded. How old are you and how long do you plan on needing a functioning liver? The possibility of liver damage is a very real one and you're a fool not to take this more seriously. If you're dead set on doing this cycle and are aware of the risks, why did you post? Anyone with a brain will tell you that cycle sucks!

have you ever cycled 2 17aa before?
what are you basing you advice on?

[Manpretty]

IRON id suggest you do some reading
start here
Hepatoxicty: Fact or Fiction?

[D-Bo Dre]

10-04-2006, 03:58 PM
Manpretty
Associate Member Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 256

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ok 5'8/155lbs/8%BF/23years old i dead 405/ bench 285/ squat 330
Ive been training since i was 16 where i started at ~115 pounds (i have a small frame)

I hope you've put on more size from then til now. Sounds like ur still immature IMO.. Maybe you should listen to the advice that has been given to you.. But then again its ur body,, you will reap the consequences.

[D-Bo Dre]

^^^^
really not interested in parrots thanks... any info on making THIS cycle more effective/safe is awesome

IMO liver damage is overstated
for you parrots that have no real data on this ill thank you not to comment
upstate and i talked via pm about this and i understand where he is coming from.....the rest of you however.....no thanks

Yeah, just wait till your faced with liver failure.. Then we will see how fast your crying for a transplant..

[ziinus]

IMO you can run 5 orals in the same time if you want, you just shouldn't run too high dosages. he's only running 40mg aa17 Ed, that's pretty usual for orals.

[Manpretty]

10-04-2006, 03:58 PM
Manpretty
Associate Member Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 256

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

ok 5'8/155lbs/8%BF/23years old i dead 405/ bench 285/ squat 330
Ive been training since i was 16 where i started at ~115 pounds (i have a small frame)

I hope you've put on more size from then til now. Sounds like ur still immature IMO.. Maybe you should listen to the advice that has been given to you.. But then again its ur body,, you will reap the consequences.

look man im not a BB in fact im a varsity sprinter therefor no need for too much size........you can see my lifts cant you? strength is the name of the game.

like i said to iron do you have any experience with running two oral? are you basing what your saying on what other people say on the board?

look man im no knocking you guys im sure you have lots of good knowledge i would rather have people comment that have either experience or have studies they can support their claims with and post the links too......i just hate uneducated people repeating what others have said as the truth

[Manpretty]

and its not that im immature its that i dont follow blindly.....just because you and iron say it doesnt mean ill believe it....it goes against all my research what you are saying and thats fine.....

but i asked people like you not to contribute to this thread for this exact reason.........

tank on the other hand thinks its a bad idea for reasons i discussed with him previously but is still is willing to give me advice to help make this cycle safer with ancilliaries and what not.......you on the other hand havent contributed AT ALL

[Manpretty]

Yeah, just wait till your faced with liver failure.. Then we will see how fast your crying for a transplant..

how do you know this.....?????

do you have any evidence to back your claims up with?

[goose]

Very interesting indeed.This is ok if you do it for 4 weeks.Mixing orals is ok,it`s the overall 17aa that is the issue.I have known dudes to do M1T 30mg ed,your cycle is milder than that.Make sure you get blood work.Your PCT is really off.I would go for aromasin 25mg ED,nolva 20mg ED and myogenx for two months. aromasin and nolva for 30-40 days.

[Manpretty]

Very interesting indeed.This is ok if you do it for 4 weeks.Mixing orals is ok,it`s the overall 17aa that is the issue.I have known dudes to do M1T 30mg ed,your cycle is milder than that.Make sure you get blood work.Your PCT is really off.I would go for aromasin 25mg ED,nolva 20mg ED and myogenx for two months. aromasin and nolva for 30-40 days.

thanks for the help goose
aromasin at 25 mg ED? i didnt think that i would need an AI since M1T and SD dont aromatize. would you mind explaining that if you have time?

[goose]

20mgs of Tamoxifen is equal to 150mgs of clomid for purposes of testosterone elevation, FSH and LH, but Tamoxifen doesn’t decrease the LH response to LHRH I think most people agree to Nolvadex ’s superiority for PCT,clomid has really bad sides.
I’ve always been in favor of using Nolvadex during PCT, along with an AI, because reducing estrogen levels has been positively correlated with an increase in testosterone so in my mind, it’s be beneficial to increase testosterone by as many mechanisms as possible while trying to recover your endogenous testosterone levels after a cycle. SO which AI do we use? Letro or A-dex? Well, why don’t we just keep using whichever one we used during the cycle, and add in some Nolvadex? Unfortunately, Nolvadex will significantly reduce the blood plasma levels of both Letrozole as well as Arimidex . So if we choose to use one of them with our Nolvadex on PCT, we’re throwing away a bit of money as the Nolvadex will be reducing their effectiveness.Aromasin at 25mg, at that dose, will raise your testosterone levels by about 60%, and also help out your free to bound testosterone ratio by lowering levels of Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), by about 20%.So Aromasin is for PCT in your cycle,you will be shut down very hard with these compounds so your PCT is just as important as the rest of the cycle.

[Manpretty]

20mgs of Tamoxifen is equal to 150mgs of clomid for purposes of testosterone elevation, FSH and LH, but Tamoxifen doesn’t decrease the LH response to LHRH I think most people agree to Nolvadex ’s superiority for PCT,clomid has really bad sides.
I’ve always been in favor of using Nolvadex during PCT, along with an AI, because reducing estrogen levels has been positively correlated with an increase in testosterone so in my mind, it’s be beneficial to increase testosterone by as many mechanisms as possible while trying to recover your endogenous testosterone levels after a cycle. SO which AI do we use? Letro or A-dex? Well, why don’t we just keep using whichever one we used during the cycle, and add in some Nolvadex? Unfortunately, Nolvadex will significantly reduce the blood plasma levels of both Letrozole as well as Arimidex . So if we choose to use one of them with our Nolvadex on PCT, we’re throwing away a bit of money as the Nolvadex will be reducing their effectiveness.Aromasin at 25mg, at that dose, will raise your testosterone levels by about 60%, and also help out your free to bound testosterone ratio by lowering levels of Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), by about 20%.So Aromasin is for PCT in your cycle,you will be shut down very hard with these compounds so your PCT is just as important as the rest of the cycle.

great explaination thanks a bunch