Tongkat Ali (Research + my thoughts on it)

[Property of Steroid.com]

From:

http://www.anthony-roberts.com/blog/?p=158

I did a bunch of research on “long jack” (Eurycoma longifolia Jack) because it’s been talked about quite a bit lately. In truth, I’m sure people will think I’m biased because I produce my own Test boosting supplement..but here’s what I’ve found…

Ok…there’s been plenty of questions about this stuff. Through my research in peer-reviewed medical journals (and only medical journals, not anthing else) here is what this stuff has ACTUALLY been shown to do. I’m going to reserve any personal comments on the product, and will basically sum up the articles I read. Then after the references, I’ll give you my thoughts.

1. Increase Libido and act as an aphrodesiac (1-10). Noteworthy is that not a single study which showed ELJ to increase libido made any mention of it raising testosterone or androgen levels…though admittedly, they didn’t examine those parameters.

2. Appears not to be cytotoxic against several cell lines and normal kidney cell lines. (11)

3. Eurycomanone (from ELJ) very poor oral bioavailability. (12)

4. Exibits potential anti-hyperglycaemic effects. (13)

5. Is cytotoxic against human breast cancer and human lung cancer (14)

6. Has potential anti-tumor and anti-parasitic effects (15)

7. Appears to be androgenic (7) and anabolic when used in doses ranging from 200-800mg/kg (16).

8. Potentially anti-malarial (17)

9. Over 5 weeks of using 100mgs/day of ELJ, one study found that people using it gained 5lbs of LBM (control group gained nothing), lost 2.86%bf (control group lost more than half of that amount too), 1RM went up 5kgs (control went up just under half of that), and 1.8cm was gained on arm size (nothing for control). (18)

References:
1. Eurycoma longifolia Jack enhances sexual motivation in middle-aged male mice.J Basic Clin Physiol Pharmacol. 2003;14(3):301-8.
PMID: 14964739 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

2. Effects of Eurycoma longifolia Jack on sexual qualities in middle aged male rats.Phytomedicine. 2003;10(6-7):590-3.
PMID: 13678248 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

3. Effect of Eurycoma longifolia Jack on orientation activities in middle-aged male rats. Fundam Clin Pharmacol. 2002 Dec;16(6):479-83.
PMID: 12685506 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

4. Effect of Eurycoma longifolia Jack on libido in middle-aged male rats.
J Basic Clin Physiol Pharmacol. 2002;13(3):249-54.
PMID: 12670032 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

5. Aphrodisiac evaluation in non-copulator male rats after chronic administration of Eurycoma longifolia Jack.
Fundam Clin Pharmacol. 2001 Aug;15(4):265-8.
PMID: 11564133 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

6. Evaluation of the potency activity of aphrodisiac in Eurycoma longifolia Jack.Phytother Res. 2001 Aug;15(5):435-6.
PMID: 11507738 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

7. Effects of Eurycoma longifolia Jack (Tongkat Ali) on the initiation of sexual performance of inexperienced castrated male rats.
Exp Anim. 2000 Jan;49(1):35-8.
PMID: 10803359 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

8. Eurycoma longifolia JACK and orientation activities in sexually experienced male rats.
Biol Pharm Bull. 1998 Feb;21(2):153-5.
PMID: 9514610 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

9. Eurycoma longifolia Jack enhances libido in sexually experienced male rats.Exp Anim. 1997 Oct;46(4):287-90.
PMID: 9353636 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

10. Sexual arousal in sexually sluggish old male rats after oral administration of Eurycoma longifolia Jack.
J Basic Clin Physiol Pharmacol. 2004;15(3-4):303-9.
PMID: 15803965 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

11. Cytotoxic effects of the root extracts of Eurycoma longifolia Jack.
Phytother Res. 2005 Nov;19(11):994-6.
PMID: 16317660 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

12. Bioavailability and pharmacokinetic studies of eurycomanone from Eurycoma longifolia.
Planta Med. 2005 Sep;71(9):803-7.
PMID: 16206032 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

13. Screening for antihyperglycaemic activity in several local herbs of Malaysia.
J Ethnopharmacol. 2004 Dec;95(2-3):205-8.
PMID: 15507337 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

14. Cytotoxic and antimalarial beta-carboline alkaloids from the roots of Eurycoma longifolia.
J Nat Prod. 2003 Oct;66(10):1324-7.
PMID: 14575431 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

15. In vitro anti-tumor promoting and anti-parasitic activities of the quassinoids from Eurycoma longifolia, a medicinal plant in Southeast Asia.
J Ethnopharmacol. 2002 Sep;82(1):55-8. Erratum in: J Ethnopharmacol.2003 Mar;85(1):173.
PMID: 12169407 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

16. Effects of Eurycoma longifolia jack on laevator ani muscle in both uncastrated and testosterone-stimulated castrated intact male rats.
Arch Pharm Res. 2001 Oct;24(5):437-40.
PMID: 11693547 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

17. Cytotoxic and antimalarial constituents of the roots of Eurycoma longifolia.
J Nat Prod. 1991 Sep-Oct;54(5):1360-7.
PMID: 1800638 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

18. Hamzah, S., and Yusof, A (2003) The ergogenic effects of eurycoma longifolia jack: A pilot study. British Journal of Sports Medicine. 37:464-470

Does this stuff have anaboilc effects? Certainly, when you inject 800mgs/kg of it, it can be anabolic. But in reality, Who knows? Most of the studies on it seem to be using an injectable solution, and not an oral version of the product…we all know that injectable testosterone is anabolic, but if you take that same bottle of Test E and drink it, it’ll do nothing even if you drink 5 bottles a day. When you combine that with the poor oral bioavailability of Long Jack, I doubt it’s going to be a really hot product in pill form. The oral bioavailability (of a quassiniod of ELJ) when compared to IV dosing, is far less (even when 5x the IV dose is given).

The study on 100mgs/day was actually decent, and the people who were studied gained about double what the control group had gained. Still…it was a pilot study and from what I saw, the parameters weren’t ideal. If we want to pin our hopes on this stuff working, this study (7 men) is all we have. From the abstract I read, testosterone levels were not measured in this study. They work off the assupmtion that test levels are increased, but they never measure that. The place they got this assumption was not a scientific journal or medical study, but rather a speech and proceedings paper at the “Asian Conference of Sexology” from 2002. It is, of course, Very shady to use that speech as a reference to show that something increases test. Very shady indeed. To my mind, that really is poor form. This study (that I referenced) was really only accepted because it’s a pilot study. TO go off the assumption that something increases test because a speaker at the Asian Conference of Sexology said so is very disconcerting and should be disregarded as any kind of proof.

Still, it has been used by natives in Malaysia as an aphrodesiac, so it probably gives you some kind of boost in libido…but that is a far cry from saying it increases testosterone levels. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out it has very mild effects on libido, but as far as being something that increases testosterone, I haven’t been able to find anything that would suggest that.

The effects it has on certain forms of breast cancer and libido, and the anabolic/androgenic effects it has (in SUPER HIGH doses) lead me to believe that it has potential, at best. But when you are talking about an injected dose of 800mgs/kg, and then comparing it to an adult who is taking 300mgs/day…I don’t think that we can expect anything special.

On another note…remember, these are medical studies…and were published in peer-reviewed medical journals. Unless there is some kind of issue with my ability to search medical journals, google, etc…because I literally spent hours looking this stuff up…there’s nothing I would say to be credible showing it increases test (for now).

Jury on this stuff is out for now. I would stick with a proven test booster…or at least one that has a study (or real bloodwork) showing it boosts test.

[Kaioken]

Agreed

good post it was not very popular at BB.com once the hype dissipated.

Anthony what do you think About Tribulus?

[number twelve]

" Over 5 weeks of using 100mgs/day of ELJ, one study found that people using it gained 5lbs of LBM (control group gained nothing), lost 2.86%bf (control group lost more than half of that amount too), 1RM went up 5kgs (control went up just under half of that), and 1.8cm was gained on arm size (nothing for control). (18)"

^^^^what kind of longjack was used? oral or injectable?

[Property of Steroid.com]

" Over 5 weeks of using 100mgs/day of ELJ, one study found that people using it gained 5lbs of LBM (control group gained nothing), lost 2.86%bf (control group lost more than half of that amount too), 1RM went up 5kgs (control went up just under half of that), and 1.8cm was gained on arm size (nothing for control). (18)"

^^^^what kind of longjack was used? oral or injectable?

Oral.

The only issue I have with that study (other than it's nearly impossible to actually find because I didn't see it on medline) is that it only used 7 men for each group (control and test) and the person who wrote the study claims that Tongkat boosts test...then when I looked up the reference where they claimed that, it was a paper/speech delivered at a seminar, and not actually ever published...and it wasn't a paper/speech on Tongkat ali at all, but rather a passing reference to herbs that boose test and increase libido, at a conference called the "Asian Conference of Sexology". It makes the whole study seem very, very fishy to me.

[Attila_the_Hun]

I bought some tonkgat ali LJ100 from some store online a while back; Using around 10 times the recommended dosage listed on the bottle I noticed some increased horniness and testicular volume (I felt kind of a sense of well being as well as I remember). I only used it for about a week because I ran out. According to some stuff I read on the site below, the potency of tongkat varies greatly ***ending on where you get it. (the site kinda seems to be connected to a site that sells tongkat in bulk however, so could just be marketing)

http://www.testingtongkatali.com/tongkatalipurchase.htm

here is a quote from the site.

For example, the British Journal of Sports Medicine reported that the use of tongkat ali extract caused a 5 % increase in lean body mass in 5 weeks. The result was obtained in a double-blind placebo controlled scientific trial for a treatment group, while in a control group, no significant changes were observed. 5 % in 5 weeks is a large improvement, as becomes obvious if one calculates it over a course of a year (5 weeks – 5 %; 52 weeks – 50 %). The authors conclude: "The results suggest that water soluble extract of Eurycoma longifolia Jack increased fat free mass, reduced body fat, and increased muscle strength and size, and thus may have an ergogenic effect."

[Kale]

800mg/kg ? that 6.8g for me at my bw.

[savax]

I would beg to differ on the effects.. .I had GREAT results with using tongkat in terms of libido and increased ejactulatory loads. I recovered MUCH faster after a cycle having added this to PCT. I can definitely feel the difference when i'm on this stuff, no BS

[Property of Steroid.com]

I bought some tonkgat ali LJ100 from some store online a while back; Using around 10 times the recommended dosage listed on the bottle I noticed some increased horniness and testicular volume (I felt kind of a sense of well being as well as I remember). I only used it for about a week because I ran out. According to some stuff I read on the site below, the potency of tongkat varies greatly ***ending on where you get it. (the site kinda seems to be connected to a site that sells tongkat in bulk however, so could just be marketing)

http://www.testingtongkatali.com/tongkatalipurchase.htm

here is a quote from the site.

For example, the British Journal of Sports Medicine reported that the use of tongkat ali extract caused a 5 % increase in lean body mass in 5 weeks. The result was obtained in a double-blind placebo controlled scientific trial for a treatment group, while in a control group, no significant changes were observed. 5 % in 5 weeks is a large improvement, as becomes obvious if one calculates it over a course of a year (5 weeks – 5 %; 52 weeks – 50 %). The authors conclude: "The results suggest that water soluble extract of Eurycoma longifolia Jack increased fat free mass, reduced body fat, and increased muscle strength and size, and thus may have an ergogenic effect."

Notice that the "control" group in that study worked out with weights for 5 weeks, got stronger, lost fat, and yet failed to gain a single ounce of lean body mass? Doesn't that seem odd to you guys?

Also...I love the marketing where they multiply the amount of weight gained for you then imply that you can expect to increase your lbm by 50% over the course of a year...doing the math, you can expect to be 300-400+lbs lean, in one year, if you started at only 200lbs and reasonably lean. Or that's what they're implying...

[ginkobulloba]

Well, I currently take tongkat and I can tell you that it makes a noticeable difference. I seem to sleep better and I am horny as hell. I also seem to have a good feeling about everything most of the time, but that's probably due to a combination of factors. All I know is it makes me want to fvck a lot.

[Property of Steroid.com]

It almost certainly increases libido....but so does Tribulus, and that does squat for test boosting.

[sofus99]

From:

In truth, I’m sure people will think I’m biased because I produce my own Test boosting supplement..

Exactly, and that is why even though I have great respect for you and many of the things you have written in the past, I tend to agree that you are in fact biased when it comes to this subject.

I personally, and many I know, have had mindblowing results using tongkat ali extra (50:1) orally at 2400 mg ED. I usually cycle 5 days on, 3 days off, and the libido boost for one thing is so totally overwhelming.

Tongkat ali extract is THE shiz to use when it comes to test boosters, IMO it works at least as well as doing 1000 iu HCG EOD, and when combining HCG with tongkat, it is out of this world.

[ginkobulloba]

Exactly, and that is why even though I have great respect for you and many of the things you have written in the past, I tend to agree that you are in fact biased when it comes to this subject.

I personally, and many I know, have had mindblowing results using tongkat ali extra (50:1) orally at 2400 mg ED. I usually cycle 5 days on, 3 days off, and the libido boost for one thing is so totally overwhelming.

Tongkat ali extract is THE shiz to use when it comes to test boosters, IMO it works at least as well as doing 1000 iu HCG EOD, and when combining HCG with tongkat, it is out of this world.

I basically agree with everything you just said, I've never taken it in that high of a dosage before, but it seems reasonable enough. The tribulus I got in the past did absolutely fvck all for me compared to tongkat. I will give it a shot with cycling it 5 on, 2 off. I love this stuff.

[sofus99]

Oops, my bad actually, I meant "only" 1600 mg (2x 800 mg) ED.

And I totally agree on tribulus, it did absolutely nothing for me either, and I've tried several brands as well.

[ginkobulloba]

I'm now taking the LJ 100 brand and it seems to be a good brand of tongkat. I went to Malaysia a couple months ago and picked up some 20:1 extract and it was the best I've used. Two caps a day (400mg each) was dynamite.

[Property of Steroid.com]

Exactly, and that is why even though I have great respect for you and many of the things you have written in the past, I tend to agree that you are in fact biased when it comes to this subject.

I designed a very good test booster...it's got an animal study showing it boosts test, and even some human bloodwork.

Here's my thoughts on being biased:

http://www.anthony-roberts.com/blog/?p=50

The thing that irks me about Tongkat is that there is nothing like that in any medical journals, and the manufacturer(s) just blithely make the claim "This increases test"...but there's no medical evidence to support that. If I made claims like that for one of my products and there was no evidence, people would attack me like crazy all over...but when we see a product with literally no scientific support for it, and it's from a major manufacturer, people assume it must be good. I think that's not right.

I'm biased, but I think I presented a very fair case with regards to Tongkat...I did a lot of research and really presented exactly what I found. I didn't alter anything, hide anything, or misrepresent anything. I listed benefits, and I presented the case for what it actually does...which is increase libido and (possibly) have an androgenic/anabolic effect (which is doubtful, based on the kinds of doses they used).

If I came out with a product and said "there is no medical or anecdotal evidence to support my claim, but this stuff increases testosterone..." people would be like wtf are you thinking?

It's kind of like tribulus..I think it's garbage as a test booster, but it's good for libido I suppose. Everyone was "sure" trib worked...posiive...it worked like crazy..then studies came out showing it did nothing for test, and just increased libido...then people weren't so sure it was good for anything but libido...then it didn't do anything for most people....now it's just fallen off the radar...

[Shane35aa]

Interested in giving this a try. Any know of a reasonable website for it? Did a search on allsport don't look like they carry it.

[Property of Steroid.com]

Interested in giving this a try. Any know of a reasonable website for it? Did a search on allsport don't look like they carry it.

Honestly...even when the "researchers" paid by the company did their "study" on it (which was never accepted by any medical journal), it didn't stack up to the results from my product.

It's just inferior, even when the results are bought and paid for...

[Shane35aa]

Seems like several members here have good experiences with it.

[Property of Steroid.com]

Agreed. I just think that it could be the same thing as we saw with Tribulus...people get horny and then think that it's a test elevation, when it's really just libido.

It's just...there is nothing in the medical literature that really gives us anything great to work off...not yet, anyway.

[sofus99]

So where is the "unbiased medical evidence" as well as massive anecdotal support that your test booster actually works? As I recall, I've seen a lot of people here who tried it out and didn't get any effect at all. However, to be fair, I've also read about a lot of people who have had excellent effects from it.

On the other hand, I can't recall having read about anyone who tried genuine tongkat ali extract who didn't get any effect from it at all.

Although I see myself as extremely sceptic about herbal medicines and potential hoax supplements, the overwhelming anecdotal evidence I've heard from people using tongkat over the years, as well as my own experiences and those of my friends, are more than enough to convince me that it works.

Don't that this personal, but you let the cat out of the bag. I've tried loads of weird stuff, from tribulus to ZMA with no or insignificant effect, and if there is one thing I know works for sure, it is tongkat ali extract.

[Benches505]

A friend gave me some of it and it's not worth a damn!

[sofus99]

And this was extract, and not just powdered roots? Often companies sell pure roots, which as you say, "are not worth a damn".

[Property of Steroid.com]

So where is the "unbiased medical evidence" as well as massive anecdotal support that your test booster actually works?

There was an animal study showing that my product boosts test, bloodwork from a user, and numerous people who say it works.

As I recall, I've seen a lot of people here who tried it out and didn't get any effect at all.

And there is a money back offer they can take advantage of. However, if you check that poll, there was one person who posted who never even used the product....and if you compare the results of that poll with the last one done on EQ, roughly as many people were happy with MyoGenX as were happy with EQ. That's not too bad.

[Swifto]

Exactly, and that is why even though I have great respect for you and many of the things you have written in the past, I tend to agree that you are in fact biased when it comes to this subject.
I personally, and many I know, have had mindblowing results using tongkat ali extra (50:1) orally at 2400 mg ED. I usually cycle 5 days on, 3 days off, and the libido boost for one thing is so totally overwhelming.

Tongkat ali extract is THE shiz to use when it comes to test boosters, IMO it works at least as well as doing 1000 iu HCG EOD, and when combining HCG with tongkat, it is out of this world.

No shit. Add, "very".

I designed a very good test booster...it's got an animal study showing it boosts test, and even some human bloodwork.

Here's my thoughts on being biased:

http://www.anthony-roberts.com/blog/?p=50

The thing that irks me about Tongkat is that there is nothing like that in any medical journals, and the manufacturer(s) just blithely make the claim "This increases test"...but there's no medical evidence to support that. If I made claims like that for one of my products and there was no evidence, people would attack me like crazy all over...but when we see a product with literally no scientific support for it, and it's from a major manufacturer, people assume it must be good. I think that's not right.

I'm biased, but I think I presented a very fair case with regards to Tongkat...I did a lot of research and really presented exactly what I found. I didn't alter anything, hide anything, or misrepresent anything. I listed benefits, and I presented the case for what it actually does...which is increase libido and (possibly) have an androgenic/anabolic effect (which is doubtful, based on the kinds of doses they used).

If I came out with a product and said "there is no medical or anecdotal evidence to support my claim, but this stuff increases testosterone..." people would be like wtf are you thinking?

It's kind of like tribulus..I think it's garbage as a test booster, but it's good for libido I suppose. Everyone was "sure" trib worked...posiive...it worked like crazy..then studies came out showing it did nothing for test, and just increased libido...then people weren't so sure it was good for anything but libido...then it didn't do anything for most people....now it's just fallen off the radar...

Wrong, you heard about one.

I'm yet to see human bloodwork showing MyoGenX has raised testosterone levels from baseline by 300%. Not after PCT too. If there is some, it would be interesting to see?

I think its completely clear to the majority of us what Anthony is trying to do making this thread. Attacking the long standing best selling natural testosterone booster and pushing MyoGenX. If your undecided, read the final paragraph of the opening post in this thread.

[Swifto]

Doesnt LJ100 go through some patented extraction process making it far more effective?

[NotSmall]

And there is a money back offer they can take advantage of. However, if you check that poll, there was one person who posted who never even used the product....and if you compare the results of that poll with the last one done on EQ, roughly as many people were happy with MyoGenX as were happy with EQ. That's not too bad.

Is there now? - Fantastic, I was under the impression that was only open to Marcus, I went through 3 bottles and honestly don't think it did anything for me.

How do I get my money back?

[Swifto]

Is there now? - Fantastic, I was under the impression that was only open to Marcus, I went through 3 bottles and honestly don't think it did anything for me.

How do I get my money back?

In the thread that had the pole in it. I did ask if it were possible to get my money back after using it. Anthony declined and stated its only for Marcus...

Perhaps its changed now?

[NotSmall]

In the thread that had the pole in it. I did ask if it were possible to get my money back after using it. Anthony declined and stated its only for Marcus...

Perhaps its changed now?

It would seem so, the key word is "they"!

[Mighty Joe]

I like "LJ" it has worked nicely for me. Its in my PCT regimine along with Tribulus.

[Property of Steroid.com]

Is there now? - Fantastic, I was under the impression that was only open to Marcus, I went through 3 bottles and honestly don't think it did anything for me.

How do I get my money back?

I think PF has a money back offer for all of their products? Take a look at their site...their FAQ is down right now, or I'd already know for 100% sure. From what I understand, they have a some kind of satisfaction or your money back kind of thing. Call and ask them...

The offer to Marcus was out of my own pocket...I was proving a point, which was that he wouldn't be able to provide us with an order number, and therefore voted in a poll on a product he never tried.

I think its completely clear to the majority of us what Anthony is trying to do making this thread. Attacking the long standing best selling natural testosterone booster and pushing MyoGenX. If your undecided, read the final paragraph of the opening post in this thread.

Actually, I knew nothing about LJ100. It was being talked about a lot on EF, and people were unable to post any real scientific studies about it...so I promised to do the research and post my thoughts on it. Which I did...it took me so long to do though, and I think it's relevant to many sites, so I posted it in several places.

Also...it's not the long standing best selling natural testosterone booster until there is actually a real medical study in a reputable peer-reviewed medical journal showing that it actually boosts test. And there IS NO STUDY SHOWING THAT IT BOOSTS TESTOSTERONE. You seem to be overlooking the fact that there isn't a rodent study, a pig study, a fish study, a human study, NO STUDIES at all support the manufacturer's claims on this stuff boosting test.

I'm not being a critic here...I'm posting what I found on Tongkat...if you think that I'm criticizing it, then posting medical journal supported facts are criticism...I think it's valid to post what I think, especially if it is supported by medical literature.

As for being biased? So what? No matter how biased or unbiased I am, there still doesn't exist a single study showing Tongkat boosts test. Attack the argument, please...not the person making it.

Wrong, you heard about one.

Initially, a friend sent me the study, yes. He also sent it to Scivation and several supplement companies. None of them thought it was a good idea. Now I'm being copied by everyone.

Oh...and I did design the supplement...it's not just fadogia, remember.

Everyone "hears" about a new idea if it's something published in a medical journal. Do you think EAS "heard" about creatine in a study, or they "designed" it? Who cares? They had it first and pioneered it. Henry Ford didn't invent the wheel or the engine, but he invented the car. From now until the end of time, I was the inventor of Fadogia supplements.

I was the first to come out with it. Patrick Arnold read about prohormones before he came out with them too...but the credit goes to him for bringing prohormones to the market. The credit for Fadogia goes to me.

[K.Biz]

Anothony bro, I like you man. but you ask for trouble... thats my only input.

[marcus300]

Swifto summed this thread up,

It so plain to see why C o n n o r s would start such a thread.

I heard sales of myo were down rapidly and this just shows it could be true. maybe everyone can see the light now, many are coming out and shouting about it.

[Property of Steroid.com]

I heard sales of myo were down rapidly and this just shows it could be true. maybe everyone can see the light now, many are coming out and shouting about it.

They're up, actually. Since month 1 of it coming out, they've been up every successive month. Since you don't know anybody at Protein Factory, I doubt you have actual information about something like that. But please, by all means, post proof.

I notice you just came off your second successive suspension. You trying to break my record? Or just get banned permanently?

Anothony bro, I like you man. but you ask for trouble.

Always have, always will, I suppose.

Swifto summed this thread up,

Yes. He said I'm biased. Yet provided no substantive evidence which disproved anything I said. He attacked me, yet failed to address any of the substance of my argument against Tongkat.

Here's a thought for Swifto, Marcus, and all of my critics:

"Many statues have been erected to the criticized. none have been erected honoring critics"

~Glenn Turner

[marcus300]

They're up, actually. Since month 1 of it coming out, they've been up every successive month.

I notice you just came off your second successive suspension. You trying to break my record? Or just get banned permanently?



Always have, always will, I suppose.

Ive heard if I get to number 3 i receieve a prize, so fingers crossed i might reach your record.

Myo sales down must just be a rumour then, because I believe everything you say.

C o n n o r s this thread is funny, I think ppl can see right throught you , take care and hope sales pick up for you.

[Property of Steroid.com]

I think ppl can see right throught you , take care and hope sales pick up for you.

How about you address the argument put forth in my original post, instead of attacking me?

[marcus300]

How about you address the argument put forth in my original post, instead of attacking me?

I would never attack you my friend, i feel rather close to you nowadays

[Swifto]

Studies were posted regarding LJ100 and you attacked the legitamacy of them, as they arnt published in any medical journals your aware of...So, all of a sudden, there bullshit.

[Swifto]

They're up, actually. Since month 1 of it coming out, they've been up every successive month. Since you don't know anybody at Protein Factory, I doubt you have actual information about something like that. But please, by all means, post proof.

I notice you just came off your second successive suspension. You trying to break my record? Or just get banned permanently?


Always have, always will, I suppose.


Yes. He said I'm biased. Yet provided no substantive evidence which disproved anything I said. He attacked me, yet failed to address any of the substance of my argument against Tongkat.

Here's a thought for Swifto, Marcus, and all of my critics:

"Many statues have been erected to the criticized. none have been erected honoring critics"

~Glenn Turner

I proved your biased...Again. Which is enough for me and most reading this thread. I'll save anyone having to scroll up and re-read what your last sentance stated, "Jury on this stuff is out for now. I would stick with a proven test booster…or at least one that has a study (or real bloodwork) showing it boosts test." If that doesnt imply MyoGenX, I'm an idiot...

MyoGenX fits the criteria....

I'm not a critic, I just disagree with the rubbish you sometimes write and speak up against it. Nothing more.

[marcus300]

SWIFTO FOR PRESIDENT

[Swifto]

Another thing...

After I questioned the bio-availability of Resveratrol, you swept its bad bio-availability under the carpet, said its irrelevant.

But you attack the bio-availability of Eurycomanone from Eurycoma longifolia, at EF.

Your post below:

"Here's a good study showing that only about 10% of ths stuff is bioavailable (poor bioavailability):

Bioavailability and pharmacokinetic studies of eurycomanone from Eurycoma longifolia.

Low BS,
Ng BH,
Choy WP,
Yuen KH,
Chan KL.
School of Pharmaceutical Sciences, University Sains Malaysia, Penang, Malaysia.
A validated HPLC analysis of eurycomanone (1), a bioactive quassinoid, in rat plasma following oral and intravenous administration of Eurycoma longifolia Jack extract was developed for pharmacokinetic and bioavailability studies. Relatively high plasma eurycomanone concentrations were detected after an intravenous injection of 10 mg/kg extract F2 containing 1.96 mg/kg of the quassinoid. However, it declined rapidly to zero after 8 h. Its mean elimination rate constant (k(e)), biological half-life (t(1/2)), volume of distribution (V(d)) and clearance (CL) were 0.88 +/- 0.19 h (-1), 1.00 +/- 0.26 h, 0.68 +/- 0.30 L/kg and 0.39 +/- 0.08 L/h/kg, respectively. Following oral administration of eurycomanone, its Cmax and Tmax values were detected as 0.33 +/- 0.03 microg/mL and 4.40 +/- 0.98 h, respectively. The plasma concentration of the quassinoid after oral administration was much lower than after intravenous application in spite of the oral dose being 5 times higher. The results indicate that eurycomanone is poorly bioavailable when given orally. A comparison of the AUC (0-->infinity) obtained orally to that obtained after an intravenous administration (normalized for dose differences) revealed that the absolute bioavailability of the compound was low with 10.5 %. Furthermore, the compound appeared to be well distributed in the extravascular fluids because of its relatively high V(d) value. The poor oral bioavailability was not attributed to instability problems because eurycomanone has been shown to be stable under different pH conditions. Thus, its poor oral bioavailability may be due to poor membrane permeability in view of its low P value and/or high first-pass metabolism.
PMID: 16206032 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]"

Yet...When we question the bio-availability of Resveratrol (another thread) its ok to have low bio-availability...?

Hhmmm...