Liver Toxicity?

[FRITZ BLITZ]

I am wondering how truly toxic SD or Halo clones are. Ive read everything from "I was fine with no liver support" to "I take a million things". If I started something I would take full liver support. I want to know if anyone has had personal experience with liver toxicity either with or without liver support. What were the signs and so on. Any experinced info would be great. I want to amp up my gains but if my body is so taxed from toxins and Im too run down to work out hard and live my life is it worth it?
Also I have read lots of threads on this subject and I have only heard one person say they had a problem and it was on sustevol (a three methyl combo)

[Big]

Liver protection such as milk thistle will not inhibit your gains, so there really is no reason not to use it while using orals.

[Lexed]

Liver toxicity is high over rated but everyone reacts differently to different substances.

[FRITZ BLITZ]

I completely agree with the liver support being very mandatory at least in my case. But what I would really like to know is if you took SD in this mild cycle below, what type toxicity percentages would you expect to get. Example
week1 10mg day
week2 10mg day
week3 20mg day
week4 20mg day
would you have say 10% liver toxicity on day 30 with liver support and 30% without liver support or with a lot of daily liver support both on cycle and pct could you curb the toxicity down to say 3%. The main reason that I'm asking is because my knowledge of the body suggests the more taxed the system is the less energy you have to devote towards intense workouts.

[wukillabee]

best to take liver supps while on and during p.c.t. so for 8 weeks straight if ur doing a 4 week cycle. life support is a good all in one pill u can take with added milk thistle if u like. not too costly either compared to buying all the liver supps seperately and making ur own cocktail. the liver supps will not downgrade the effects of ur methyl ph at all, dont worry bout that, worry bout ur health. personally ive never had noticable side effects with a single methyl like halo with or without liver supps, BUT ive never had blood work done either so i dont know.

[K.Biz]

Liver protection is a must! go read my sticky on "everything you need to no about SD" it is mostly about superdrol and its clones, but support supps and pct goes for pretty much over the counter oral.

the way I look at it is.... no matter if you have the best liver in the world, your still putting stress on it. so why not help it out? Milk thistle is so damn cheap, its just pure stupidity not to help protect yourself.

would you inject yourself without first cleaning the injection site? NO. Same goes with support supps. theres a reason there called support supps. to help "support" your body and take the toll of some-what hars- to very harsh orals, in any case, its always smart to help the body in any way you can.

[longhorn814]

without bloodwork its very difficult to tell how stressful a compound is to your liver..from my experience and bloodwork, I have found that no amount of liver protectants will keep your liver values in a normal range while on a 17aa steroid, they will however return to normal within a few weeks of stopping. Ive ran SD, Dbol, Winny, and Var..not all at the same time. My ex-girl works in a lab and would run bloodwork on me all the time and regardless of what liver protecants I took, I always had elevated liver enzymes. Hepatoxicity doesnt concern me much as its overexaggerated IMO plus the liver is quite resilient and can regenerate itself. Unless you take large amounts of orals for a long time and your eyes start turning yellow, I dont think you have much to worry about. What you should be more concerned with is how quickly oral steroids will destroy your lipid profile..your HDL will be close to 0 within no time...My HDL was 55 and I started 100mg winny/day..16 days later my HDL was 1.4 and my total cholesterol was 104!!!!!!!! Having too low cholesterol is a bad thing too. It took 3 weeks for it to get back to normal after stopping the winny. I tend to avoid 17aa compounds anymore..just my .02

[Diamonite]

liver toxicity is overrated to a point. you hear, like you said, guys that take this and that and feel fine.

but sd and halo are very toxic for your liver. everyone reacts different. you never know if that could catch up with you.

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

yr liver is pretty tough

some debate if milk thistle even helps. But, like I say, better safe than sorry

milk thistle anywhere from 2000-4000mg ed through cycle and pct

and I do believe NAC goes good with milk thistle with killing free radicals..1200mg ed

both r cheap also, no reason not to use them when running orals

[FRITZ BLITZ]

without bloodwork its very difficult to tell how stressful a compound is to your liver..from my experience and bloodwork, I have found that no amount of liver protectants will keep your liver values in a normal range while on a 17aa steroid, they will however return to normal within a few weeks of stopping. Ive ran SD, Dbol, Winny, and Var..not all at the same time. My ex-girl works in a lab and would run bloodwork on me all the time and regardless of what liver protecants I took, I always had elevated liver enzymes. Hepatoxicity doesnt concern me much as its overexaggerated IMO plus the liver is quite resilient and can regenerate itself. Unless you take large amounts of orals for a long time and your eyes start turning yellow, I dont think you have much to worry about. What you should be more concerned with is how quickly oral steroids will destroy your lipid profile..your HDL will be close to 0 within no time...My HDL was 55 and I started 100mg winny/day..16 days later my HDL was 1.4 and my total cholesterol was 104!!!!!!!! Having too low cholesterol is a bad thing too. It took 3 weeks for it to get back to normal after stopping the winny. I tend to avoid 17aa compounds anymore..just my .02

When your lipids went out of whack were you taking blood support sups? I heard from medical specialists that most lethargy caused from any type of steroid use stems from some imbalance in liver, thyroid, lipids, or any other organ that has to do with energy and the process of fats and cals. I really want to avoid any extra tiredness.

[longhorn814]

When your lipids went out of whack were you taking blood support sups? I heard from medical specialists that most lethargy caused from any type of steroid use stems from some imbalance in liver, thyroid, lipids, or any other organ that has to do with energy and the process of fats and cals. I really want to avoid any extra tiredness.

I always take my EFA regardless of what Im taking and my cholesterol is usally good..as Ive found from blood work..no OTC supps will keep your lipids in check while taking an oral steroid..cholesterol is produced in the liver...steroids are derived from cholesterol..dont know the exact science behind it, but im pretty sure thats why the oral kill your lipids..not sure about prescription drugs though..they may work better at keeping it normal

[bulldawg_28]

I always take my EFA regardless of what Im taking and my cholesterol is usally good..as Ive found from blood work..no OTC supps will keep your lipids in check while taking an oral steroid..cholesterol is produced in the liver...steroids are derived from cholesterol..dont know the exact science behind it, but im pretty sure thats why the oral kill your lipids..not sure about prescription drugs though..they may work better at keeping it normal

Does that also include fish oil and flax seed oil supplements? I've read on other boards that a few members were actually able to keep their cholesterol from LDL's, VLD's and triglycerides from being too elevated by taking at least 10 grams of fish oil a day, and 10-15 grams of flax seed oil a day.

[longhorn814]

Does that also include fish oil and flax seed oil supplements? I've read on other boards that a few members were actually able to keep their cholesterol from LDL's, VLD's and triglycerides from being too elevated by taking at least 10 grams of fish oil a day, and 10-15 grams of flax seed oil a day.

yes include fish and flax oils, however I dont take 10-15 grams of it either..im just going from my experience..my cholesterol stays a lot better if i only use injectables..my hdl and total cholesterold do drop a little but nothing like when taking an oral

[FRITZ BLITZ]

I always take my EFA regardless of what Im taking and my cholesterol is usally good..as Ive found from blood work..no OTC supps will keep your lipids in check while taking an oral steroid..cholesterol is produced in the liver...steroids are derived from cholesterol..dont know the exact science behind it, but im pretty sure thats why the oral kill your lipids..not sure about prescription drugs though..they may work better at keeping it normal

Thanks for the info. My mind is more at ease on the liver issue. Ill try to watch my lipids. I'll do pre/post blood work when I decide to start the next level. Has anyone had a problem with lathergy and more importantly has anyone found a good solution either in cycle schedual, or support supps, or anything else?

[D-Bo Dre]

Thanks for the info. My mind is more at ease on the liver issue. Ill try to watch my lipids. I'll do pre/post blood work when I decide to start the next level. Has anyone had a problem with lathergy and more importantly has anyone found a good solution either in cycle schedual, or support supps, or anything else?

To be honest, I haven’t heard of anyone who hasn’t had a problem with lethargy.. It's part of the cycle.. I’ve ran 2 SD cycles (approx. a year apart) and both times lethargy tried to kick my ass.. It’s nothing to be stressed about though,, just plan on having some caffeine pills handy and maybe an energy drink.. It's worth it b/c once your in the gym you’ll be ready to give it hell

[FRITZ BLITZ]

To be honest, I haven’t heard of anyone who hasn’t had a problem with lethargy.. It's part of the cycle.. I’ve ran 2 SD cycles (approx. a year apart) and both times lethargy tried to kick my ass.. It’s nothing to be stressed about though,, just plan on having some caffeine pills handy and maybe an energy drink.. It's worth it b/c once your in the gym you’ll be ready to give it hell

thanks for the encouragment. Im only concerned about it because I work construction and its tough enough as is, so if I can somehow curb the lethargy at all it would be helpful.

[Project]

thanks for the encouragment. Im only concerned about it because I work construction and its tough enough as is, so if I can somehow curb the lethargy at all it would be helpful.

High dosesd vit c