The sugar fallacy - dont buy the hype (pwo, pre-wo, etc)

[Drummerboy]

I dont buy into this need to cram 100 grams of sugar down your throat right after a workout. If we were superathletes training twice a day, maybe. However, there is no need to replenish so fast, considering we give our bodies some rest between workouts (at least 24 hrs.). Once your blood sugar has peaked your just going to store fat anyway. And that happens quickly.

Chime in if your with me!

I use mostly whole foods. Pre workout i have oats/whey/egg in milk and post i have 40 grams sugar (dex, malto, wms, whatever) and 30g whey, 5g creatine, 5g glutamine, will be adding 10 grams bcaa too, in water post workout. The rest are good rounded meals. 4 solid food meals a day. Pretty simple, and very effective! i stick to around 2000-2500 maintenance cal. a day. works for me.

~DB~

[Dog-Slime]

I agree and so does mj.

[ralph4u2c]

I dont buy into this need to cram 100 grams of sugar down your throat right after a workout. If we were superathletes training twice a day, maybe. However, there is no need to replenish so fast, considering we give our bodies some rest between workouts (at least 24 hrs.). Once your blood sugar has peaked your just going to store fat anyway. And that happens quickly.

Chime in if your with me!

I use mostly whole foods. Pre workout i have oats/whey/egg in milk and post i have 40 grams sugar (dex, malto, wms, whatever) and 30g whey, 5g creatine, 5g glutamine, will be adding 10 grams bcaa too, in water post workout. The rest are good rounded meals. 4 solid food meals a day. Pretty simple, and very effective! i stick to around 2000-2500 maintenance cal. a day. works for me.

~DB~

other than using dextrose or WMS post workout, when and who is marketing to take all kinds of sugar? i agree with you, but i dont quite understand why the sudden post.

the old 7-up character agrees too ---

[Drummerboy]

It about the volume of sugar, and that sugar is the carb of choice... mostly pwo. for the most part, you could take half the amount of recommend carb loading after a workout and eat the rest in good whole foods. Mostly im saying that a carb is a carb for the most part... aside from how fast its absorbed... and we dont NEED to absorb carb so mega-quickly after a workout. I know some ppl already believe it, im just throwin it out there for those who still wanna take 100g of sugar pwo. to each his own i guess

[ralph4u2c]

i agree and wrote a similar post with research backing me up on a similar matter regarding waxy maize starch. check it out if you will.

[gst528i]

100g sugar huh .... Intresting, i don't think it's necessary unless ur diabetic and low blood sugar after workout.... Even at that i think that too much sugar..lol

[tjpatrick1987]

i only eat abd drink 40grams if sugar 40g protein after i workout

[I_Want_Abs]

i used to have 100gm high GI carbs in my pwo shake in this fasion: 50g pro/100g dex.
i have since changed that about a year ago and have been using this shake with more low GI carbs: 50g pro/30-40g dex/80g fine oat powder.
i feel alot better after my workout (no sugar high and crash lol), and i feel that i have lost a bit of bodyfat also (i do no cardio so i attribute this to my shake and diet changes).

[Reed]

i agree and wrote a similar post with research backing me up on a similar matter regarding waxy maize starch. check it out if you will.

I would like to see this post if I could. Have never seen a bulking diet that doesn't suggest simple carbs PWO and the study list is endless on why a insulin spike is benefical PWO. I personally do 40 g WMS, gatorade, and a banana. Did just the shake and WMS for a week and I did not fill out like I do when I have the combination after workout. Maybe my body is just use to that meal. But I also train each body parts 2x a week and workout 6 days a week. When I go into contest I'll be taking all carbs out of my diet and putting my body into ketosis about 16 wks out.

[ralph4u2c]

I would like to see this post if I could. Have never seen a bulking diet that doesn't suggest simple carbs PWO and the study list is endless on why a insulin spike is benefical PWO. I personally do 40 g WMS, gatorade, and a banana. Did just the shake and WMS for a week and I did not fill out like I do when I have the combination after workout. Maybe my body is just use to that meal. But I also train each body parts 2x a week and workout 6 days a week. When I go into contest I'll be taking all carbs out of my diet and putting my body into ketosis about 16 wks out.

i didnt say you do not need them, i simply stated that there is no big difference between them. WMS is digested mainly in the small intestine not in the stomach, thus giving less stomach problems. other than that, no big difference and you will achieve very similar results. the reason you fill out is because you fill up your glycogen levels - any one of them will do this.

here you are bro - http://forums.steroid.com/showpost.p...8&postcount=11

[Reed]

i didnt say you do not need them, i simply stated that there is no big difference between them. WMS is digested mainly in the small intestine not in the stomach, thus giving less stomach problems. other than that, no big difference and you will achieve very similar results. the reason you fill out is because you fill up your glycogen levels - any one of them will do this.

here you are bro - http://forums.steroid.com/showpost.p...8&postcount=11

Sorry for the confusion... Are you just stating there is no difference b/w WMS and dextrose? I read the article, I have some understanding of what its stating. That if you have injest high levels of carbs throughout the day, all the extra carbs PWO won't make much of a difference muscle glycogen synthesis. Please tell me I read that right

[ralph4u2c]

Sorry for the confusion... Are you just stating there is no difference b/w WMS and dextrose? I read the article, I have some understanding of what its stating. That if you have injest high levels of carbs throughout the day, all the extra carbs PWO won't make much of a difference muscle glycogen synthesis. Please tell me I read that right

pretty much and that since you stay pretty full anyway, any carb source should work just fine. puts an end to the big WMS hype. great to have it for sale and to recommend people who get stomach problems when taking things like dextrose but other than that ....

[Reed]

It makes sense but I have two top sources telling me to use the WMS after workout. One is a top national level competitor probably gettin his pro card at the nationals this year, I see this dude just about everyday and he is supercool. Doesn't want to help me out too much but drops hints here and there. The other, I'm getting a diet indirectly from a source that does the diets for the MD athletes and this diet tells me to do WMS preworkout and after.(sorry not going to mention any names) Well I did the before for a week and during the workouts I felt flat and worn out so I went back to my whole food meal preWO but after I've been doing the WMS and it seems to fill me out better than doing the white bread. Like I can almost feel the nutrients getting rushed into my muscles, that probably sounds crazy as f*ck, I know. I'm not trying to argue or anything just wanna learn.

[ralph4u2c]

It makes sense but I have two top sources telling me to use the WMS after workout. One is a top national level competitor probably gettin his pro card at the nationals this year, I see this dude just about everyday and he is supercool. Doesn't want to help me out too much but drops hints here and there. The other, I'm getting a diet indirectly from a source that does the diets for the MD athletes and this diet tells me to do WMS preworkout and after.(sorry not going to mention any names) Well I did the before for a week and during the workouts I felt flat and worn out so I went back to my whole food meal preWO but after I've been doing the WMS and it seems to fill me out better than doing the white bread. Like I can almost feel the nutrients getting rushed into my muscles, that probably sounds crazy as f*ck, I know. I'm not trying to argue or anything just wanna learn.

and so you have, continue with what you are doing bro

[Drummerboy]

yea... i like to do a pre and post workout program too...

Since i was kinda all over the map with the original post... all i meant to say was :

I see a lot of ppl taking massive amounts (80-100) grams of sugar with their pwo shake, some with lots of sugar pre-workout. I believe this to be uncalled for. I only take whole foods pre, with a small shake of whey/casien/albumin, bout 30 grams protien and a few grams of sugar for taste (all my protiens are natural, unflavoured). PWO i ony take about 40 grams dex (maximum) and 30 grams protien, with creatine and glutamin in there too. This is followed by another whole food meal about 1 to 1.5 hours later. This seems to be working great. Im trying to avoid sugar crashes by going with whole foods with lower GI. (i get a good insuline spike with less sugar anyway) Im steadily gaining strength again, and with less sugar and more whole foods, i seem to be holding a little less fat. My gains with proper nutrition and using the right amount of supplements are the best ive had, and im not on cycle. Nutrition proves to be the most important aspect of this game as time goes on. Thnx for the thread link earlier, and all the input so far. I am going to try WMS though, if only for the digestive benefits. Feel free to offer your opinion on PWO carb loading!

~DB~

[bcaasdirty]

ive seen no difference in results using different ratios pwo....i started out w/ a 2:1 carb pro ratio...now its exact opposite...i take in ~50g pro and ~30g simple carbs pwo...no difference in recovery time for this guy

[ACE5HIGH]

I'd agree, Ive done the 80-120 gram of dextrose PWO myself and can honestly say I did not see a difference then with good whole foods and healthy carbs...

except maybe in stomach gains...

[peachfuzz]

couldnt agree more with you drummerboy. This is MHO.

1. we dont come close to completely depleting glycogen stores weight lifting.
2. the glycogen we do use is muscle glycogen. the liver is more than happy to share its supply as well.
3. preworkout meal(s) have more of an impact on glycogen synthesis IMO as food takes several hours to be digested and nutrients assimilated.
4. aminos should be the main concern PWO
5. glycogen resynthesis can only occur so fast. dumping glucose in the blood will not force the process to speed up.

[BITTAPART2]

when bulking I take in around 100-150 gm carbs depending on the intensity and I will use WMS and DEX mixed with BCAAs and around 50gm protein. The point of simple sugar post workout would be to better utilize your upregulated receptors and take advantage of the greatest insulin spike you can achieve in order to thotoughly throw nutrients into your muscles and replenish glycogen stores. I know we all know this but it is my belief that it does become beneficail when bulking to use some simple sugars right after WO. When I cut I use a opposite approach as well. i only carb up on off training days anyway so post workout during a cutting phase I will eat maybe 25-30gm carbs from ol fashioned oats and have my BCAAs during workout and drink 18 egg whites with the oats.

[FireGuy]

couldnt agree more with you drummerboy. This is MHO.

1. we dont come close to completely depleting glycogen stores weight lifting.
2. the glycogen we do use is muscle glycogen. the liver is more than happy to share its supply as well.
3. preworkout meal(s) have more of an impact on glycogen synthesis IMO as food takes several hours to be digested and nutrients assimilated.
4. aminos should be the main concern PWO
5. glycogen resynthesis can only occur so fast. dumping glucose in the blood will not force the process to speed up.

What about those who are doing 40-60 minutes of cardio after their workout? If they are on a low carb diet. How much do you think this changes the equation on glycogen depletion?

[Mbuffguy]

take waxy maize with BCAA then protein later

[Drummerboy]

Forgot to mention... since everyone gains fat at different rates, that also influences how much sugar you want to take... hard gainers can take more of course. I also agree with Mbuffguy, about taking the carbs immediately after workout with BCAA and then the protien a little later. Im just going to throw up a thread in diet section with my new routine and get feedback there... my gains are going up too rapidly to ignore

[Mbuffguy]

Forgot to mention... since everyone gains fat at different rates, that also influences how much sugar you want to take... hard gainers can take more of course. I also agree with Mbuffguy, about taking the carbs immediately after workout with BCAA and then the protien a little later. Im just going to throw up a thread in diet section with my new routine and get feedback there... my gains are going up too rapidly to ignore

Props waxy has little to no suger thats why i like it

[wrj]

I dont buy into this need to cram 100 grams of sugar down your throat right after a workout. If we were superathletes training twice a day, maybe. However, there is no need to replenish so fast, considering we give our bodies some rest between workouts (at least 24 hrs.). Once your blood sugar has peaked your just going to store fat anyway. And that happens quickly.

Chime in if your with me!

I use mostly whole foods. Pre workout i have oats/whey/egg in milk and post i have 40 grams sugar (dex, malto, wms, whatever) and 30g whey, 5g creatine, 5g glutamine, will be adding 10 grams bcaa too, in water post workout. The rest are good rounded meals. 4 solid food meals a day. Pretty simple, and very effective! i stick to around 2000-2500 maintenance cal. a day. works for me.

~DB~

Come on man, you got to be retardedly high to say this... sugar intake equals insulin secretion which when released causes an anabolic state ... You can't out smart banting and best my friend. Insulin secretion is THE most effective tool in the body's arsenal to uptake macro nutrients. For **** sake, quit reading so much and train more!

If you really wanted to 'not buy the hype' you'd read all those studies (that even the chocolate milk commercials use now) that prove that post workout carbohydrate ingestion truly assists recovery and replenishes the glycogen depletion so that you could statement by statement discuss how when you eat simple sugars pwo it doesn't do that to your serum blood levels.

I gotta ride you on this when I see you, this is a bad one, and completely unfounded!

W

[FallenWyvern]

Sugar, WMS, maltodextrin and dextrose. All the same to me.

[jimmyinkedup]

you know i believe it was novastepp who brought up a point in another thread that i have wondered about for years and think it may have some truth to it. The point was it is virtually impossible to illicit a highly beneficial insulin response using sugars. Without exogenous insulin i find it hard to believe that by massive sugar intake our bodies natural insulin response make a big difference in the way of gains.

[IM708]

Come on man, you got to be retardedly high to say this... sugar intake equals insulin secretion which when released causes an anabolic state ... You can't out smart banting and best my friend. Insulin secretion is THE most effective tool in the body's arsenal to uptake macro nutrients. For **** sake, quit reading so much and train more!

If you really wanted to 'not buy the hype' you'd read all those studies (that even the chocolate milk commercials use now) that prove that post workout carbohydrate ingestion truly assists recovery and replenishes the glycogen depletion so that you could statement by statement discuss how when you eat simple sugars pwo it doesn't do that to your serum blood levels.

I gotta ride you on this when I see you, this is a bad one, and completely unfounded!

W

You can spike your insulin ingesting a protein shake.... and thanks for bumping a thread that has been dead to write this.

[wrj]

You can spike your insulin ingesting a protein shake.... and thanks for bumping a thread that has been dead to write this.

Blow me bud, Drummer is wrong on this one.

[IM708]

^^^^ That's not very nice.


I'd suggest if you want want to get a bj go ask dsm.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=365252

[wrj]

And of course out of stupidity I click the link ... brutal