what is a good starting ph

**Greatztin** · 03-30-2009, 02:39 PM

i already posted this in anabolic steroid section, my bad wrong area i was redirected here

I'm 20 years old, i been doing mma for 6 years, i am 178lbs i am currently on john berardi's sample diet from grapplers gym nutrtition, i want to gain a little bit of muscle, my strength gains are good, but losing fat and building muscle is hard, i feel like i've hit my plateau, i want to do one cycle tyhat will help me bust that plateau and help lose a little bit of body fat. Give me your suggestions.

I was suggested 11-oxo 6-8 weeks followed by 6-oxo for 4 weeks. I heard this was a good starting stack, good for strength and fat loss.

im not thinking on doing any other cycles, just to help boost my plateau and help lose some bf.

any reviews on stuff like 3-ad trifecta stack, herma/propadrol ? i dunno, post ur comments thoughts knownlodeged

**Greatztin** · 03-30-2009, 02:40 PM

here is the reply i got from immortal

Wrong board, this is anabolic steroids . Supplement board will help you better.

With that being said, 11-oxo is more or anti-cortisone type fat loss drug than a bulking drug.

3-AD is a non-methyl drug and limited if any HPTA suppression and PCT is OTC, reviews are mixed.

Personally the best beginner Ph's is Bold 200 by Iforce (idk if it is still in production.

Other choices include H-Drol, Phera Phlex, and the infamous Superdrol (being the strongest and harshest) all are methyl's so liver support is recommended.

Personally for PCT I would run Nolva 20/20/20/20

**RATTLEHEAD** · 03-30-2009, 02:49 PM

I'd highly recommend Havoc as a first PH. It's a reject steroid from the 70's, but it produces pretty decent, dry gains, with minimal sides.

**stangmatt06** · 03-30-2009, 03:13 PM

The company that produces 6-oxo and 11-oxo halted production on their products due to some sports hype about a player using it.

6-OXO is also highly over priced.

Try going with Trenapro and some AromX as a first cycle.

I recommend taking liver support with prohormones.

PS: Take prohormones with 10-15 grams of fat and or a good dose of fish oil.

**RATTLEHEAD** · 03-30-2009, 03:17 PM

^^ adding to that. My favorite way to consume enough fat to maximize the effects of a PH is to douse my eggs in olive oil every morning. Then soak up the leftovers with a piece of whole wheat toast. Olive oil is entirely too good.

**Greatztin** · 03-30-2009, 03:27 PM

its kinda hard because everybody suggests different things as start, im guessing it doesnt really matter what you start with, im not gonna make more then 1 cycle

, H-drol sounds real good cus its good for fat loss aswell so thats nice, but i'll take a look at trenadrol mate

**Greatztin** · 03-30-2009, 03:30 PM

i didnt find anything about trenapro, is this trenadrol or tren -250 which seems good, basically im looking for a strength and fatloss mostly, but mass is great xD

**RATTLEHEAD** · 03-30-2009, 03:47 PM

tren is a little harsh imo.

**stangmatt06** · 03-30-2009, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Greatztin

i didnt find anything about trenapro, is this trenadrol or tren-250 which seems good, basically im looking for a strength and fatloss mostly, but mass is great xD

I'm not sure if we can give out the names of the companies for Prohormones. If you have heard of TrenXtreme, trenapro is the same product but a higher mg dose.

Here is the ingredient: 19 Norandrosta 4, 9 diene 3, 17 dione Google search that chain.

You could always try Methyl 1D, I've heard a LOT of positives from it.

Please edit my post if the tren image was not allowed

**Greatztin** · 03-30-2009, 04:56 PM

someone else insisted me on trying spawn or t-bol, haha anyways i'll do my research, but either way it wont be now, because i hurt my back not long ago, and im not doing any weight lifting for awhile.

im actually doing www.simplefit.org training, and i dont think its with this i'll be getting the best gains on using ph, so im gonna wait until im recovered and then get back in the gym with some squats and deadlifts, and after a couple of months i'll go hunting.

So im on a bodyweight circuit training program, unless anyone has any other ideas, personally i find its a change and gives me some variaty till im healed.

**Greatztin** · 03-30-2009, 05:04 PM

if u suggest methyl-1

why not go with the trifecta stack ?

its got formadrol extreme a pct and methl 1 - and methyl masterdrol

i read this is good for biginers aswell, anyways.. lol

**stangmatt06** · 03-30-2009, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by Greatztin

if u suggest methyl-1

why not go with the trifecta stack ?

its got formadrol extreme a pct and methl 1 - and methyl masterdrol

i read this is good for biginers aswell, anyways.. lol

For a beginning cycle I wouldn't do a trifecta. You might be Gyno prone and ProHormones are highly known to cause Gyno symptoms. Just like AAS they recommend people using a Test only cycle first to find out what their body can tolerate. Then from there they add in other substances.

You could get a (3) methyl ProHormone compound if you want, but you will definitely want to be on some sort of liver support and possibly even run something like nolva as your PCT. Check out Omnivol (might be banned) and DecaPro. With most prohormones and talking to people, they notice strength gains but not size.

Decapro Benefits:
Powerful
Rated Excellent
3 Powerful Compounds
Ultimate Combo Prohormone Stack

Supplement Facts:
Serving Size: 1 Capsule
Servings Per Container: 60

Amount Per Serving
2-ene (17a,-Methyl-Ettioallocholan-2-ene-17b-ol) 15 MG
4-chloro-17a-methyl-andro-4-ene-3,17b-diol 25 MG
2a,17a,-dimethyl-17b-hydroxy-5a-androstan-3-one 15MG

Other Ingredients: Proprietary half life enxymatic conversion excelerator, Gelatin, Dicalcium phosphate and magnesium stearate.

Suggested Use:
Take 1 capsule , two times daily . Do not use for more than 8 weeks. And then take 2 weeks off cycle and you can return for another 8 week cycle.

**RATTLEHEAD** · 03-30-2009, 05:49 PM

why would you guys recommend these as a first PH though? That shit is definitely too harsh for a first timer.

**Greatztin** · 03-30-2009, 06:01 PM

an example of testosterone enanthate is trenbolone ? doesnt this have alot of risk of side effects ?

**Greatztin** · 03-30-2009, 06:01 PM

sry for so many questions but this is my way of learning xD

**RATTLEHEAD** · 03-30-2009, 07:48 PM

Honestly man, if you really want to go with a mild PH and get the best gains possible with the least side effects, I will recommend a few PH's. Trust me, they are the most mild but they still require proper PCT just like any other PH or AAS cycle. Go with either Havoc, H-drol, 3-AD, or 11oxo. Those are the most mild of pH's. You will yield the most gains from either Havoc or H-drol though. Some of this other stuff being recommended is too harsh for a first timer. You don't even know what to expect yet, why would you try something harsh? Do a search and read as much as you possibly can about all of the PH's, and make an educated decision based on what you read. Please do not start a PH cycle without first completely understanding what you're taking. Also, keep in mind that what you gain and retain is 100% reliant on your training program, diet, and PCT. PH's are by no means miracle supps. They are merely a crutch to help you get up the stairs.

**Greatztin** · 03-31-2009, 12:11 PM

kool man, thx, i think 3-ad and havoc is what im gonna go with probably havoc, sounds nice and seems to not have much sides so dats cool, but like i said im gonna wait a bit because right now i dont got access to the gym and even if i would i have a lowerback herniated disc injury so yea im gonna wait im just gathering information..right now im doing simplefit.org type of bodyweight training, its not bad for now..thx rattle