How does saw palmetto work????

[GREAKWESSNIPES]

I have read that Saw Palmetto protects the prostate and can stop Male Pattern Baldness!

How does it do this?

Does it interfere with the conversion of testosterone to DHT?

Does it interfere with the androgen receptor?

[RATTLEHEAD]

I disbelieve these claims. I think saw palmetto is used primarily for libido enhancement since these claims aren't backed by enough credible evidence. Most OTC supps shouldn't be seen as something as promising as this. there are some great OTC supps, but none which deliver such substantial results. OTC supps usually have more of a placebo effect than anything because people read about them and get their hopes up, then take em and think they are doing something. Just thinking they are sometimes does make a slight difference though.

[Angel of death]

I disbelieve these claims. I think saw palmetto is used primarily for libido enhancement since these claims aren't backed by enough credible evidence. Most OTC supps shouldn't be seen as something as promising as this. there are some great OTC supps, but none which deliver such substantial results. OTC supps usually have more of a placebo effect than anything because people read about them and get their hopes up, then take em and think they are doing something. Just thinking they are sometimes does make a slight difference though.

you must be like 16 years old dude...don't talk about shit if you don't know about it this sounds pretty dumb. and yeah saw palmetto has been shown to block the conversion of some testosterone to DHT, it obviously isnt extremely powerful and it is thought to work more for prostate health. Unlike what was said in the post by rattlehead, DHT blockers usually mean less of a libido. I don't see how can you generalize ALL OTC supplements like that lol that is just crazy to me

[GREAKWESSNIPES]

you must be like 16 years old dude...don't talk about shit if you don't know about it this sounds pretty dumb. and yeah saw palmetto has been shown to block the conversion of some testosterone to DHT, it obviously isnt extremely powerful and it is thought to work more for prostate health. Unlike what was said in the post by rattlehead, DHT blockers usually mean less of a libido. I don't see how can you generalize ALL OTC supplements like that lol that is just crazy to me

I know what you mean bro!

They are alot of good OTC supplements out there eg fat burners that contain coleus forskohlii, guggulsterones or both and ones with yohimbine and synephrine!

Milk Thistle, ALA and NAC are not orescription supplements and you need them if you are doing 17 alpha alkylated orals and using letro, nolva, clomid, A-dex or other anti-estrogens for PCT!

It is crazy to justify all OTC supplements like that!

[RATTLEHEAD]

What are you saying? Saw palmetto is going to cure male pattern baldness? Are you dumb? Nothing over the counter will. That's why we have prescription medication like Propecia. Saw Palmetto is a weak 5-alpha-reductase blocker. There are no studies that show Saw Palmetto can reverse male pattern baldness, or make your hair grow.

I didn't generalize all OTC supps, I said most. Most OTC supplements don't even have claims on the bottle because there isn't enough evidence to support claims. Ever pick up non name brand bottle before you novice? it'll either have no claims, or say "BELIEVED to etc.."

Anyone who thinks they are going to cure baldness with saw palmetto is either someone who has never looked into it, or an idiot.

Your about as brilliant as the Slayer lyrics your name is derived from.

[Swifto]

Watch the flaming...

[elpropiotorvic]

no need to be rude guys, the board is full of drama

An open label, dose response study to determine the effect of a dietary supplement on dihydrotestosterone, testosterone and estradiol levels in healthy males.
Angwafor F 3rd, Anderson ML.

Yaounde Teaching Hospital, Urological Service Department, University of Yaounde, Cameroon. [email protected]

BACKGROUND: Maintaining endogenous testosterone (T) levels as men age may slow the symptoms of sarcopenia, andropause and decline in physical performance. Drugs inhibiting the enzyme 5alpha-reductase (5AR) produce increased blood levels of T and decreased levels of dihydrotestosterone (DHT). However, symptoms of gynecomastia have been reported due to the aromatase (AER) enzyme converting excess T to estradiol (ES). The carotenoid astaxanthin (AX) from Haematococcus pluvialis, Saw Palmetto berry lipid extract (SPLE) from Serenoa repens and the precise combination of these dietary supplements, Alphastat(R) (Mytosterone(trade mark)), have been reported to have inhibitory effects on both 5AR and AER in-vitro. Concomitant regulation of both enzymes in-vivo would cause DHT and ES blood levels to decrease and T levels to increase. The purpose of this clinical study was to determine if patented Alphastat(R) (Mytosterone(trade mark)) could produce these effects in a dose dependent manner. METHODS: To investigate this clinically, 42 healthy males ages 37 to 70 years were divided into two groups of twenty-one and dosed with either 800 mg/day or 2000 mg/day of Alphastat(R) (Mytosterone(trade mark)) for fourteen days. Blood samples were collected on days 0, 3, 7 and 14 and assayed for T, DHT and ES. Body weight and blood pressure data were collected prior to blood collection. One-way, repeated measures analysis of variance (ANOVA-RM) was performed at a significance level of alpha = 0.05 to determine differences from baseline within each group. Two-way analysis of variance (ANOVA-2) was performed after baseline subtraction, at a significance level of alpha = 0.05 to determine differences between dose groups. Results are expressed as means +/- SEM. RESULTS: ANOVA-RM showed significant within group increases in serum total T and significant decreases in serum DHT from baseline in both dose groups at a significance level of alpha = 0.05. Significant decreases in serum ES are reported for the 2000 mg/day dose group and not the 800 mg/day dose group. Significant within group effects were confirmed using ANOVA-2 analyses after baseline subtraction. ANOVA-2 analyses also showed no significant difference between dose groups with regard to the increase of T or the decrease of DHT. It did show a significant dose dependant decrease in serum ES levels. CONCLUSION: Both dose groups showed significant (p = 0.05) increases in T and decreases in DHT within three days of treatment with Alphastat(R) (Mytosterone(trade mark)). Between group statistical analysis showed no significant (p = 0.05) difference, indicating the effect was not dose dependent and that 800 mg/per day is equally effective as 2000 mg/day for increasing T and lowering DHT. Blood levels of ES however, decreased significantly (p = 0.05) in the 2000 mg/day dose group but not in the 800 mg/day dose group indicating a dose dependant decrease in E levels.

[Angel of death]

What are you saying? Saw palmetto is going to cure male pattern baldness? Are you dumb? Nothing over the counter will. That's why we have prescription medication like Propecia. Saw Palmetto is a weak 5-alpha-reductase blocker. There are no studies that show Saw Palmetto can reverse male pattern baldness, or make your hair grow.

I didn't generalize all OTC supps, I said most. Most OTC supplements don't even have claims on the bottle because there isn't enough evidence to support claims. Ever pick up non name brand bottle before you novice? it'll either have no claims, or say "BELIEVED to etc.."

Anyone who thinks they are going to cure baldness with saw palmetto is either someone who has never looked into it, or an idiot.

Your about as brilliant as the Slayer lyrics your name is derived from.

lol you're gonna take shots at my account name now? Is rattlehead a name of pure genius? Jesus christ if theres a moderator around check this dude's age you can't be 16 on these boards kiddo, I'm sorry.


Did I say it was going to cure MPB or did I say it "wasn't very powerful." I'm not sure. Go and check. I've researched MPB for years being a sufferer of it myself and I've used all of these supplements and I found that saw palmetto was effective in slowing down my MPB. Did I say it was the greatest thing ever? You clearly messed up when you generalized "All OTC supplements." I guess tylenol doesn't work for headaches? I guess vitamin C doesn't help your immune system? Nah, no way, they're over the counter, its impossible!! Grow up kiddo

[RATTLEHEAD]

First off, most people in here have known me for a while and know i'm definitely older than 16. I've been giving sound advice on these boards for years now, where have you been? Second, If you agree with what I said about saw palmetto not really doing anything, then why argue? What is your argument? Maybe your 16, just looking for arguments. Tylenol, unlike most OTC SUPPLEMENTS (key word, supplement, not medicine) has thousands of clinical studies to back it (although nothing works for everyone, including tylenol). Tylenol is just a lower dose of acetaminophen which is in many prescription drugs. Do you see high doses of saw palmetto marketed at higher dosed prescriptions for MPB or any condition even remotely related to it? NOPE. Ever wonder why? because it doesn't really work and there are other choices that do work well. Most supplements and medicines in general are still inconclusive on their current claims and need to be further studied. Go back to BB.com and argue nonsense. People here have an IQ over the room temperature.

[RATTLEHEAD]

There's really no argument. Saw Palmetto doesn't do much. We both agreed on that. End of argument. My advice for the person who posted the questions is to see a doctor about male pattern baldness. There are so many options these days, a pill shouldn't have to be your only line of defense. although, if you are taking any pill for male pattern baldness, it should probably be something that works, i.e. Propecia.

[GREAKWESSNIPES]

no need to be rude guys, the board is full of drama

An open label, dose response study to determine the effect of a dietary supplement on dihydrotestosterone, testosterone and estradiol levels in healthy males.
Angwafor F 3rd, Anderson ML.

Yaounde Teaching Hospital, Urological Service Department, University of Yaounde, Cameroon. [email protected]

BACKGROUND: Maintaining endogenous testosterone (T) levels as men age may slow the symptoms of sarcopenia, andropause and decline in physical performance. Drugs inhibiting the enzyme 5alpha-reductase (5AR) produce increased blood levels of T and decreased levels of dihydrotestosterone (DHT). However, symptoms of gynecomastia have been reported due to the aromatase (AER) enzyme converting excess T to estradiol (ES). The carotenoid astaxanthin (AX) from Haematococcus pluvialis, Saw Palmetto berry lipid extract (SPLE) from Serenoa repens and the precise combination of these dietary supplements, Alphastat(R) (Mytosterone(trade mark)), have been reported to have inhibitory effects on both 5AR and AER in-vitro. Concomitant regulation of both enzymes in-vivo would cause DHT and ES blood levels to decrease and T levels to increase. The purpose of this clinical study was to determine if patented Alphastat(R) (Mytosterone(trade mark)) could produce these effects in a dose dependent manner. METHODS: To investigate this clinically, 42 healthy males ages 37 to 70 years were divided into two groups of twenty-one and dosed with either 800 mg/day or 2000 mg/day of Alphastat(R) (Mytosterone(trade mark)) for fourteen days. Blood samples were collected on days 0, 3, 7 and 14 and assayed for T, DHT and ES. Body weight and blood pressure data were collected prior to blood collection. One-way, repeated measures analysis of variance (ANOVA-RM) was performed at a significance level of alpha = 0.05 to determine differences from baseline within each group. Two-way analysis of variance (ANOVA-2) was performed after baseline subtraction, at a significance level of alpha = 0.05 to determine differences between dose groups. Results are expressed as means +/- SEM. RESULTS: ANOVA-RM showed significant within group increases in serum total T and significant decreases in serum DHT from baseline in both dose groups at a significance level of alpha = 0.05. Significant decreases in serum ES are reported for the 2000 mg/day dose group and not the 800 mg/day dose group. Significant within group effects were confirmed using ANOVA-2 analyses after baseline subtraction. ANOVA-2 analyses also showed no significant difference between dose groups with regard to the increase of T or the decrease of DHT. It did show a significant dose dependant decrease in serum ES levels. CONCLUSION: Both dose groups showed significant (p = 0.05) increases in T and decreases in DHT within three days of treatment with Alphastat(R) (Mytosterone(trade mark)). Between group statistical analysis showed no significant (p = 0.05) difference, indicating the effect was not dose dependent and that 800 mg/per day is equally effective as 2000 mg/day for increasing T and lowering DHT. Blood levels of ES however, decreased significantly (p = 0.05) in the 2000 mg/day dose group but not in the 800 mg/day dose group indicating a dose dependant decrease in E levels.

The study seems to say that the product does block 5-alpha reductase!

It seems to block aromatase aswell to some extent!

I have read this about Saw Palmetto!

Is the product in the study available in the UK?

Where can I get it from?

[RATTLEHEAD]

It does, but it's very weak. If you don't mind spending money on it I'd say just try it. It can't hurt. I'm not trying to sound negative, I'm just a realist. I'm in everyone's best interest in here and I try and give an informative 2 cents every time I post.

[GREAKWESSNIPES]

It does, but it's very weak. If you don't mind spending money on it I'd say just try it. It can't hurt. I'm not trying to sound negative, I'm just a realist. I'm in everyone's best interest in here and I try and give an informative 2 cents every time I post.

If I do use AAS I am only goin 2 use test prop for a month then add others ie Deca and Primo?

How will Saw Palmetto help with sides of those three mild AAS?

Do you know any supplements that are good 5-alpha reductase blockers?

I was told by affordable supplements that Reflex's Flax seed product was %-alpha reductase blocker!

Is that true?

[RATTLEHEAD]

Flax in general is a very solid supplement. You should take it every day regardless, if you can afford it. Are you hereditarily prone to hairline recession? If not, then I wouldn't worry so much about hair loss. Most people who cycle AAS and are truly concerned about hair loss, and know they have a genetic predisposition, will usually take something like Propecia. Many sites that sell AAS also sell hair loss related prescription medicines (in my years, this is what I've found). But, like I said, if you want to try saw palmetto I'd say do it. I just really don't think it will make any difference.

In the case of flax and hair loss, this would be the claim: flax increases enterolactone production and down-regulates 17B-HSD, decreasing androstendione, a significant, but little known player in male pattern hair loss.

[Angel of death]

Go back to bb.com? Never been a poster on those forums, in fact I've been here on and off (I am busy) since 2004 I believe. And no lol...tylenol can be considered a supplement. In fact, do us both a favor and look up supplement and supplementation in the dictionary. Go check that out and come back to me. Just because it doesn't add 10lbs to your bench press doesn't mean it's not a supplement. This is where you usually would throw in a poorly constructed joke where you indirectly try to call me dumb, but I'm not going to stoop to your level. Just do your homework I assigned you and have a nice day.

[RATTLEHEAD]

You fish for arguments. You could probably argue with the ****ing wind. Tylenol is regarded as medicine. Just speaking english for the entirety of my life gives me the nearly innate ability to decipher when something sounds incorrect (amazing, right?).You can also say "your" instead of "you're" and people will know what your talking about, but it definitely isn't correct. You don't call tylenol a supplement. It's a medicine. I wouldn't even refer to aspirin as a supplement even though it's used in conjunction with many actual supplements. But, since your relentless in your downhill debate, i'll just agree that "technically" you can call tylenol a supplement. This argument is worse than a Kerry King solo. hahaha I had to do it.

[elpropiotorvic]

*sigh*...

[Angel of death]

lol Bro you are the one who started with insults taking a shot at my account name and telling me to go back to bb.com. All I originally said was it is crazy to generalize OTC supplements like that. But whatever, pin it on me and call me "relentless" when if you really felt bothered by it you wouldn't keep responding. And kerry king is the man and you know it.

[RATTLEHEAD]

Kerry King is alright. He is an awful guitarist and a decent song writer. Seasons in the Abyss was a good album though. Lombardo is where it's at.

[GREAKWESSNIPES]

Flax in general is a very solid supplement. You should take it every day regardless, if you can afford it. Are you hereditarily prone to hairline recession? If not, then I wouldn't worry so much about hair loss. Most people who cycle AAS and are truly concerned about hair loss, and know they have a genetic predisposition, will usually take something like Propecia. Many sites that sell AAS also sell hair loss related prescription medicines (in my years, this is what I've found). But, like I said, if you want to try saw palmetto I'd say do it. I just really don't think it will make any difference.

In the case of flax and hair loss, this would be the claim: flax increases enterolactone production and down-regulates 17B-HSD, decreasing androstendione, a significant, but little known player in male pattern hair loss.

I do not think I am prome to hairloss!

My grandad on my mums side of the family had a full set of hair and none of my uncles on my mums are bald!

I started going to bald then I stopped!

Is it true that the MPB gene is on the mothers side?

I think AAS only speeds up baldness if a person is presdispositioned to it!

[HugeDude]

If you do your research I think you will find that Saw Palmetto does nothing for prosate protection. I don't know about hair loss. As far as I am concerned, hair loss is part of life and if your get it you get it. It is not the end of the world. When I was 35, which was more than half that time ago, I said to myself, "By the time I go bald, bald will be in.", I guess partially because I am part of the tail end of the baby boomers. Sure enuf...every one shaves their head now.

I know, it is easy to say...harder to internalize...but as you get older you realize the worry isn't worth it. What is worth it is working out...it's kept me looking 10 years younger and still a wonder to those at my 40th HS reunion

Keep pumpin!

[GREAKWESSNIPES]

If you do your research I think you will find that Saw Palmetto does nothing for prosate protection. I don't know about hair loss. As far as I am concerned, hair loss is part of life and if your get it you get it. It is not the end of the world. When I was 35, which was more than half that time ago, I said to myself, "By the time I go bald, bald will be in.", I guess partially because I am part of the tail end of the baby boomers. Sure enuf...every one shaves their head now.

I know, it is easy to say...harder to internalize...but as you get older you realize the worry isn't worth it. What is worth it is working out...it's kept me looking 10 years younger and still a wonder to those at my 40th HS reunion

Keep pumpin!

I read that it does protect the prostrate and Milk Thistle also does!

I am not scared of going bald!

One of my cousins is completely bald but he has a girlfriend 11 years his junior!

They are a lot of bald wrestlers and bodybuilders and it is rumoured that bald men are more virile!

I think it might be true due to them having more androgens!