Make ur own pre-workout!

[Gucks]

This thread is just ecause someone else was asking about making ur own pre-workout supp. ive started loads of my m8s doing the same because i love it so much. first off ive tryed vpx no shotgun, bsn no explode, usplabs jack3d and nutrex hemo rage ultra concentrate. my opiniong r them vary, no shotgun and no explode were shit! jack3d and hemo rage r descent.

the main reason i started mixing my own was price! im very insensitive 2 stimulants and i had 2 take 3 scoops of jack3d 2 get a hit, which is about €2 per serving, mixing my own i do it for 80c. here wht i do:

beta-alanine: rec. amount is 2g, i use 5g. start with 2g see how tht works 4 u.

AAKG:rec. amount is 1g, i use 2g. same as before, see what works 4 u.

caffeine:200mg 2 start, caffeine is very potent so dont exceed 200mg first time, i use 400mg becaus ei know what works 4 me.

creatine:5g, standard monohydrate. ive nvr bothered tryin HCL or any other ester.

L-Glutaime:5g, the glutamine combines with AAKG 2 produce L-Carnitine to produce NO (what give u ur pump!). AAKG on its own works, but stick some L-G in there, its dirt cheap!

EAA: essential amino acids r all 9 EAA's not just the 3 in bcaa's. not a neccesaty for pre-workout but i like them and they shuld be a staple in any1's PWO or pre-workout.

about 200ml of OJ and i put a teaspoon of sugar on my tongue and neck it! the reason for the sugar u will find out when u dirnk this...AAKG is nasty shit, but EAA's r even worse (i was 2 cheap 2 buy the tabs). i suggest u buy the smallest bag of eaa's first 2 see if u can take it. if not, buy the tabs.

i know it will seem like alot of powder for pre-workout compared 2 the concentrated ones. but trust me, its far better and far most cost effective! btw, tht 80c is excluding EAA, they bring it up 2 €1.20.

i buy all these from myprotein.com, they r based in uk though. if ur in us theres plenty of other companys that u can buy from. u get free delivery with MP for orders over $100 though (and b4 u ask, im not sponsered by them, i just like their products).

[goinglong]

Gucks, you read my mind on this one. I was just going to search this evening for some good make-yo-own PWO mixes. Although I love the jack3d (staste, concentrate, effectiveness) I'm looking at making some of my own stuff because of cost.

Anyone else have any input or any other suggestions for YOUR home-made PWO mix?

[songdog]

coffee black cheaper yet

[Gucks]

coffee black cheaper yet

lol, black coffee? u need 2 drink 6 cups 4 the amount of caffeine i put in my shake :P culdnt stomach that before a workout! and 6 cups adds up to alot more then the couple of cents a scoop of caffeine costs. its the cheapest thing in that mix!

[Gucks]

Gucks, you read my mind on this one. I was just going to search this evening for some good make-yo-own PWO mixes. Although I love the jack3d (staste, concentrate, effectiveness) I'm looking at making some of my own stuff because of cost.

Anyone else have any input or any other suggestions for YOUR home-made PWO mix?

i liked jack3d aswell, was my favourite of the ones i listed. much rather making my own though! if u wanna make mine even cheaper, u can leave out aakg and eaa's. wuld bring it down to about 60c a serving.

[SuperLift]

looks pretty decent bro

[goinglong]

This thread is just ecause someone else was asking about making ur own pre-workout supp. ive started loads of my m8s doing the same because i love it so much. first off ive tryed vpx no shotgun, bsn no explode, usplabs jack3d and nutrex hemo rage ultra concentrate. my opiniong r them vary, no shotgun and no explode were shit! jack3d and hemo rage r descent.

the main reason i started mixing my own was price! im very insensitive 2 stimulants and i had 2 take 3 scoops of jack3d 2 get a hit, which is about €2 per serving, mixing my own i do it for 80c. here wht i do:

beta-alanine: rec. amount is 2g, i use 5g. start with 2g see how tht works 4 u.

AAKG:rec. amount is 1g, i use 2g. same as before, see what works 4 u.

caffeine:200mg 2 start, caffeine is very potent so dont exceed 200mg first time, i use 400mg becaus ei know what works 4 me.

creatine:5g, standard monohydrate. ive nvr bothered tryin HCL or any other ester.

L-Glutaime:5g, the glutamine combines with AAKG 2 produce L-Carnitine to produce NO (what give u ur pump!). AAKG on its own works, but stick some L-G in there, its dirt cheap!

EAA: essential amino acids r all 9 EAA's not just the 3 in bcaa's. not a neccesaty for pre-workout but i like them and they shuld be a staple in any1's PWO or pre-workout.

about 200ml of OJ and i put a teaspoon of sugar on my tongue and neck it! the reason for the sugar u will find out when u dirnk this...AAKG is nasty shit, but EAA's r even worse (i was 2 cheap 2 buy the tabs). i suggest u buy the smallest bag of eaa's first 2 see if u can take it. if not, buy the tabs.

i know it will seem like alot of powder for pre-workout compared 2 the concentrated ones. but trust me, its far better and far most cost effective! btw, tht 80c is excluding EAA, they bring it up 2 €1.20.

i buy all these from myprotein.com, they r based in uk though. if ur in us theres plenty of other companys that u can buy from. u get free delivery with MP for orders over $100 though (and b4 u ask, im not sponsered by them, i just like their products).

About how much volume would you say? Roughly. 1 or 2 big scoops? How much do you make at once or do you just pull your amounts out of a bunch of different tubs?

[vishus]

like this idea, was thinking of doing it myself but never really knew what dosages to put in it. can get it here in the states off trueprotein.com, i think they are similar companies n sell raw protein powders/supplement powders. thanks for the info, will giv it a try!

[Gucks]

About how much volume would you say? Roughly. 1 or 2 big scoops? How much do you make at once or do you just pull your amounts out of a bunch of different tubs?

i just have all my bags in a cuboard in my kitchen, pull them out and only takes 1 min! and no, nowhere near 1 big scoop. the biggest serving pre workout ive had was no shotgun, it was 30g. mine is 20g total but 15g are because of eaa's and creatine which most pre-workouts dont have, its not heavy or anything, just bigger serving then jack3d!

[Gucks]

like this idea, was thinking of doing it myself but never really knew what dosages to put in it. can get it here in the states off trueprotein.com, i think they are similar companies n sell raw protein powders/supplement powders. thanks for the info, will giv it a try!

your welcome bro ive loved it since ive tryed it though, one thing is watch the beta-alanine and the caffeine, a few times ive but in to much beta, feels like u have ants on ur skin!

[goinglong]

That is cool. I kinda like crazy sides like that. I know -- I'm a little weird.

Thanks for the information. I'm on it, now. Much appreciated!

[Gucks]

That is cool. I kinda like crazy sides like that. I know -- I'm a little weird.

Thanks for the information. I'm on it, now. Much appreciated!

lol, ye, i love the beta tingle but trust me, u'll know about it if u dose to much :P your welcome due!

[Machdiesel]

I dont know why anyone would spend money on pre-workout supps. They are way under dosed on the ingrediants that work, and you cant separate the ingredients to get the proper dosage, like taking creatine on non workout days etc. Buy the raw materials of the stuff that works, dont pay for advertising and a half ass product.

[Gucks]

I dont know why anyone would spend money on pre-workout supps. They are way under dosed on the ingrediants that work, and you cant separate the ingredients to get the proper dosage, like taking creatine on non workout days etc. Buy the raw materials of the stuff that works, dont pay for advertising and a half ass product.

agreed. some are pretty good, but if u need more beta u gotta take more of everything else aswell! the only advantage of pre-workout supps over making ur own is the convenience, i have about 6 bags of stuff i put in :P

[Turkish Juicer]

I brew my own pre-workout mix and consume it 30 mins. before my training session.

Everything in the powder form goes inside a glass, filled with 350 ml of organic cherry juice, no sugar added. I also chase the tablet form supplements with the same cherry juice, of course.

20 gr of micronized BCAA powder
5 gr of pure L. Glutamine
1 serving of Kre-Alkalyn (2 soft gels)
1 serving of Beta-Alanine (4 soft gels)
1 serving of Acetyl L-carnitine (1 tablet)

Here is the answers to your potential questions:

Q - Why Cherry juice instead of water or any other fruit juice?

A - Read the article, and you will understand: http://humankinetics.wordpress.com/2...eeds-recovery/


Q - Where is the Caffeine?

A - There is NO Caffeine in there because there a few research showing that even an optimal dosage intake of Caffeine along with Creatine destroys the Creatine metabolism inside the cell, hence canceling out Creatine. (http://www.ergo-log.com/creatinecaffeine.html) In other words, do NOT take both supplements at the same time. If you are big fan of Caffeine and can't do without it, then take 200 mg about 20 mins. before your workout and take your Creatine as your post-workout supplement. That way, you can still refuel your ATP with Creatine, and not suffer from whatever feels lacking during your training without Caffeine. Best of two worlds, indeed.

Your welcome!

[Gucks]

I brew my own pre-workout mix and consume it 30 mins. before my training session.

Everything in the powder form goes inside a glass, filled with 350 ml of organic cherry juice, no sugar added. I also chase the tablet form supplements with the same cherry juice, of course.

20 gr of micronized BCAA powder
5 gr of pure L. Glutamine
1 serving of Kre-Alkalyn (2 soft gels)
1 serving of Beta-Alanine (4 soft gels)
1 serving of Acetyl L-carnitine (1 tablet)

Here is the answers to your potential questions:

Q - Why Cherry juice instead of water or any other fruit juice?

A - Read the article, and you will understand: http://humankinetics.wordpress.com/2...eeds-recovery/


Q - Where is the Caffeine?

A - There is NO Caffeine in there because there a few research showing that even an optimal dosage intake of Caffeine along with Creatine destroys the Creatine metabolism inside the cell, hence canceling out Creatine. (http://www.ergo-log.com/creatinecaffeine.html) In other words, do NOT take both supplements at the same time. If you are big fan of Caffeine and can't do without it, then take 200 mg about 20 mins. before your workout and take your Creatine as your post-workout supplement. That way, you can still refuel your ATP with Creatine, and not suffer from whatever feels lacking during your training without Caffeine. Best of two worlds, indeed.

Your welcome!

dont like it, EAA's r much btr then BCAA's. and 20g of it..? rediculous. no point in taking glutamine with carnitine, read my other posts to understand why. caffeine and creatine at the same time? ur talking minimal inteference. 5g v 400mg. and kre-alcalyl, all of these esters of creatine are insignificatn imo just like HCL creatine is. monohydrate is the original and best imo. whatever works for u tho.

[Turkish Juicer]

dont like it, EAA's r much btr then BCAA's. and 20g of it..? rediculous. no point in taking glutamine with carnitine, read my other posts to understand why. caffeine and creatine at the same time? ur talking minimal inteference. 5g v 400mg. and kre-alcalyl, all of these esters of creatine are insignificatn imo just like HCL creatine is. monohydrate is the original and best imo. whatever works for u tho.

I don't think I need to read your other posts to have a better idea about your lack of academic/scientific background over these issues, which indeed reflects itself both in your stated opinions and lack of any solid reference in your entries.

So, in your opinion, ''EEA's are much better than BCAA's'' ... and, why?

Again, in your opinion ''20 gr of pre-workout BCAA's is ridiculous'' ... and, why?

You said ''no point in taking glutamine with carnitine.'' I won't even ask you why, because they are completely different amino acid profiles and support anabolism in their own ways.

And, no, I am not talking about minimal interference when it comes to consuming Caffeine & Creatine at the same time. Did you even read the article that shows the results of two completely different research made on Caffeine & Creatine intake? If you did, then you would have already understood that 400 mg of Caffeine is going to rape and destroy 5 gr of Caffeine in your cell metabolism. Are you even aware of the several research that show you need 100 grams of sugar for each 5 grams of Creatine to fully perform? (not to mention how fat you would eventually get). Does your pre-workout brew even include 100 gr of sugar, or should it at all? You can't just leap to a conclusion on your own here by pulling numbers regarding dosages and comparing 5 grams of this to 400 mg of that! That's not science, it is arithmetics and it is useless when you manipulate it to win an argument!

No, No, No! Kre-Alkalyn is not another ester of monohydrate. It is the alkalized form of Creatine-Monohydrate, which cancels out the known side effects of Creatine due to its pH-correct composition. It is the original Creatine-Monohydrate after all, just the technologically revised version of it! Why is it so hard for you to accept that it is the %100 human grade quality and the previous Creatine-Monohydrate technology does not have that. Do you also have the same skeptical approach when it comes to your gear? Would you prefer a veterinarian grade gear over %100 human grade pharmaceutical with the same logic, per se? Would you say ''I think you are over-rating Primobolan , vet. grade Equipoise will give you the same results and it is cheaper anyways''?

Wow, you have all these personal opinions with no visible referential grounds. How can you even be so assertive without actually having the informational background for those assertions? It makes me wonder...

[Gucks]

I don't think I need to read your other posts to have a better idea about your lack of academic/scientific background over these issues, which indeed reflects itself both in your stated opinions and lack of any solid reference in your entries.

So, in your opinion, ''EEA's are much better than BCAA's'' ... and, why?

Again, in your opinion ''20 gr of pre-workout BCAA's is ridiculous'' ... and, why?
You said ''no point in taking glutamine with carnitine.'' I won't even ask you why, because they are completely different amino acid profiles and support anabolism in their own ways.

And, no, I am not talking about minimal interference when it comes to consuming Caffeine & Creatine at the same time. Did you even read the article that shows the results of two completely different research made on Caffeine & Creatine intake? If you did, then you would have already understood that 400 mg of Caffeine is going to rape and destroy 5 gr of Caffeine in your cell metabolism. Are you even aware of the several research that show you need 100 grams of sugar for each 5 grams of Creatine to fully perform? (not to mention how fat you would eventually get). Does your pre-workout brew even include 100 gr of sugar, or should it at all? You can't just leap to a conclusion on your own here by pulling numbers regarding dosages and comparing 5 grams of this to 400 mg of that! That's not science, it is arithmetics and it is useless when you manipulate it to win an argument!

No, No, No! Kre-Alkalyn is not another ester of monohydrate. It is the alkalized form of Creatine-Monohydrate, which cancels out the known side effects of Creatine due to its pH-correct composition. It is the original Creatine-Monohydrate after all, just the technologically revised version of it! Why is it so hard for you to accept that it is the %100 human grade quality and the previous Creatine-Monohydrate technology does not have that. Do you also have the same skeptical approach when it comes to your gear? Would you prefer a veterinarian grade gear over %100 human grade pharmaceutical with the same logic, per se? Would you say ''I think you are over-rating Primobolan , vet. grade Equipoise will give you the same results and it is cheaper anyways''?

Wow, you have all these personal opinions with no visible referential grounds. How can you even be so assertive without actually having the informational background for those assertions? It makes me wonder...

do u even know what bcaa's are..? bcaa - branched chain amino acids: l-leuicine l-isoleuicine and l-valine. JUST 3 OF THE TOTAL EAA'S! eaa - essential amino acids - 9 in total, the bcaa's plus lycine, methionine, threonine, tryptophan, histidine, phenylaline.

20g's of BCAA IS rediculous, bcaa's r essentialy protein, u do NOT need that much pre-workout, they only serve a purpose so far. 10g max imo.

the purpose of me taking glutamine pre-workout is because along with arginine ir forms carnitine, the NO amino acid that gives ur pump. glutamine on its own is a non-essential amino acid and is unneccesary to take along with eaa's and whey PWO.

on the kre-alkalyn, i dont need to read articles, there are THOUSANDS of articles proving the effects of monohydrate, the side effects of it? water retention, thats it. thats the only reason some1 would take another form of creatine over monohydrate. not realising that that water retention is GOOD thing. water retention is your cells allows them to absorb more neutrients better and increase in size. thats partly how steroids work, through water retention (it allows disolves more nitrogen from the blood but the effects of that from creatine are minimal).

i have never used juice and wont for a few years. where do u get off making acusations? and monohydrate isnt a human grade product..? love to see where u got that!!!

the sugar and creatine, i mix with OJ and i have fruit pre-wrokout which gives about 50g sugar. u dont NEED sugar for creatine, it simply absorbs faster. it will still perform with low gi carbs.

[Turkish Juicer]

do u even know what bcaa's are..? bcaa - branched chain amino acids: l-leuicine l-isoleuicine and l-valine. JUST 3 OF THE TOTAL EAA'S! eaa - essential amino acids - 9 in total, the bcaa's plus lycine, methionine, threonine, tryptophan, histidine, phenylaline.
Yes, I know what BCAAs are. Maybe I should mention at this point that I have a MSc in Nutrition and Food Science, so that I don't come off as a smart ass trying to show off with pseudo-knowledge. I also know what EAAs are. Although I don't think there is a huge difference between BCAAs and EAAs, therefore, trying to determine which one is better is not at all a challenge either. Seemingly, you get more of the Essential Amino Acids out of a PWO brew with EAA; however, my main goal is to get what I know to be the most essential of all EAA concerning muscle-protein synthesis, that being BCAAs. Like you said earlier, whatever works for you is the best stack for you.

20g's of BCAA IS rediculous, bcaa's r essentialy protein, u do NOT need that much pre-workout, they only serve a purpose so far. 10g max imo.
There are several research showing that 20 gr of protein intake 30 min. before and/or immediately after a workout is the OPTIMAL amount. Here is why: When you go over 20 gr, it takes longer for the protein to be digested, resulting in further catabolism (in the case of post-workout). In the case of pre-workout, if you take your PWO 30 mins. before your session begins like I do and get involved in 90 minutes of intense weight training followed by an HIIT cardio, you WILL need approx. 20 gr of the highest quality & fast absorbing aminos in order to make sure you are NOT wasting muscle, at least not to a great extent. Since 20 gr is determined to be the optimal amount in many case studies, I think that intake of a smaller portion also means not making the best out of your protein portion. Lastly, human liver (regardless of age, sex and metabolism type) has the capacity of synthesizing 30 gr of protein per meal, and 30 gr of protein intake increases the rate of muscle protein synthesis by 50 percent. In the light of all the information above, I leave it up to you to decide whether 20 gr PWO protein intake is ''ridiculous.''

the purpose of me taking glutamine pre-workout is because along with arginine ir forms carnitine, the NO amino acid that gives ur pump. glutamine on its own is a non-essential amino acid and is unneccesary to take along with eaa's and whey PWO.
Well, that is really interesting. Can you please address your source regarding the formation of Carnitine in that manner? (that Glutamine, along with Arginine actually forms Carnitine) The purpose of me taking Glutamine PWO, on the other hand, is because Glutamine is an anti-catabolic agent and it performs this in two ways: 1. Suppressing the cortisol during workout, 2. Preventing the liver from breaking down muscle tissue stored in the form of L. Glutamine due to lack of free form of L. Glutamine in your blood. Note: about 50% of your muscle tissue is stored in the form of L. Glutamine and they are the first amino acids to be broken down during catabolism BTW. Thus, your claim that ''glutamine on its own is a non-essential amino acid and is unnecessary to take along with eaa's and whey PWO'' is again a product of your plain logic and has no concrete scientific reference. In fact, L. Glutamine remains an athlete's most important PWO (and Post-WO) supplement along with essential aminos.

on the kre-alkalyn, i dont need to read articles, there are THOUSANDS of articles proving the effects of monohydrate, the side effects of it? water retention, thats it. thats the only reason some1 would take another form of creatine over monohydrate. not realising that that water retention is GOOD thing. water retention is your cells allows them to absorb more neutrients better and increase in size. thats partly how steroids work, through water retention (it allows disolves more nitrogen from the blood but the effects of that from creatine are minimal).
OK, I will lay off the Creatine issue here, not because I necessarily agree with everything you said but mostly because what I say about Creatine will apparently make no difference to you, so there is no point in further investigation of the subject matter. Although, I will never understand the stubborn attitude of yours when it comes to choosing a technologically revised version of a product over the previous and less effective version with possible side effects, especially since the difference in price is minimal. Maybe because you are Irish? (joking).

i have never used juice and wont for a few years. where do u get off making acusations? and monohydrate isnt a human grade product..? love to see where u got that!!!
It was not an accusation at all. It was merely an ANALOGY. I think you are reading into it. Furthermore, I am very neutral towards the use of steroids, I hardly care about whether a person is on the juice or not. It is matter of choice after all. Of course, Creatine Monohydrate is a human grade product; however, it lacks the stable pH buffered levels for optimal absorption in human body. Here is a full explanation of why: Creatine's speed of conversion to creatinine is related to the pH of the liquid used for mixing - I'm sure most of us know that creatine breaks down to creatinine when mixed in liquid in only 43 seconds, which is a useless (bio-waste) compound. Researches demonstrate that the lower the pH, the faster creatine converts to creatinine, and it also found that conversion rate to creatinine slows as the pH of the creatine itself is raised above 7. At a pH of 12, creatine stops converting to creatinine. So essentially, Kre Alkalyn Creatine is a pH buffered creatine with a pH above 12. As a result, it remains stable when mixed with liquid. What significance does this have for bodybuilding? With a buffered pH, the Kre Alkalyn creatine we consume remains completely stable and reaches muscle cells at full strength. Consequently, 1 to 3 grams of Kre-Alkalyn for a bodybuilder per day is plenty WITHOUT the need of fast carbs like sugar, as opposed to 10 gr of Creatine Monohydrate intake (which is also why it would be WRONG to think Creatine Mono is cheaper than Kre-Alkalyn).

the sugar and creatine, i mix with OJ and i have fruit pre-wrokout which gives about 50g sugar. u dont NEED sugar for creatine, it simply absorbs faster. it will still perform with low gi carbs.
As an expert of nutrition all I can tell you is that a PWO drink with 50 gr of respectively high GI type sugar in it is a VERY BAD HABIT! You are basically elevating your blood sugar levels before your workout, which results in what we call ''sugar crash,'' meaning you are messing up your energy levels during a work-out. It is in fact the last thing your body needs. Furthermore, you don't even need to load your cells with Creatine right before a workout if you are going to load them with 5 gr of Creatine right after a workout. Again, you are wrong about the relationship between sugar and Creatine. I know this is going to be extremely hard to explain to someone who refuses to read articles on the subject and chooses to go by word-of-mouth instead, but I strongly recommend you read this article by Dr. Alfredo Franco-Obregón, a true expert on nutritional supplements with over 20 years of research experience. For once and for all, http://www.gain-weight-muscle-fast.c...-creatine.html

Responses in BOLD.

[terraj]

Not sure why dudes need a jump start to go lift weights....

If anything some BCAA and your g2g

[baseline_9]

My pre/ intra workout drink is usually

10g BCAA's
5-10g creatine monohydrate
200mg cafiene
20-50g dextrose
3g taurine

I have been using this for some time. I feel its important to get nutients and supps in you at this time

[YoungGunsNY]

Mine's pretty similar minus the beta-alanine, which I'm thinking of getting soon.

I'm taking a fat burner, so there's my caffeine intake...

25mg ephedrine & 200mg caffeine (fat burner)
5g arginine
5g creating monohydrate
10g BCAAs
5g glutamine
3tbsp. liquid amino acids (twinlabs supplement)

the bcaas & the liquid aminos = yum!!

[Gucks]

Mine's pretty similar minus the beta-alanine, which I'm thinking of getting soon.

I'm taking a fat burner, so there's my caffeine intake...

25mg ephedrine & 200mg caffeine (fat burner)
5g arginine
5g creating monohydrate
10g BCAAs
5g glutamine
3tbsp. liquid amino acids (twinlabs supplement)

the bcaas & the liquid aminos = yum!!

wht do ur liquid aminos consist of..? u take glutamine and bcaa's so wht other aminos do u want pre-workout? :P unless its EAA's. and beta is worth it imo, i love the focus and tingle u get from it.

[charliemurphy229]

very informative, some good ideas, will have to try one of these.

[Gucks]

very informative, some good ideas, will have to try one of these.

thank you

[dec11]

I don't think I need to read your other posts to have a better idea about your lack of academic/scientific background over these issues, which indeed reflects itself both in your stated opinions and lack of any solid reference in your entries.

So, in your opinion, ''EEA's are much better than BCAA's'' ... and, why?

Again, in your opinion ''20 gr of pre-workout BCAA's is ridiculous'' ... and, why?

You said ''no point in taking glutamine with carnitine.'' I won't even ask you why, because they are completely different amino acid profiles and support anabolism in their own ways.

And, no, I am not talking about minimal interference when it comes to consuming Caffeine & Creatine at the same time. Did you even read the article that shows the results of two completely different research made on Caffeine & Creatine intake? If you did, then you would have already understood that 400 mg of Caffeine is going to rape and destroy 5 gr of Caffeine in your cell metabolism. Are you even aware of the several research that show you need 100 grams of sugar for each 5 grams of Creatine to fully perform? (not to mention how fat you would eventually get). Does your pre-workout brew even include 100 gr of sugar, or should it at all? You can't just leap to a conclusion on your own here by pulling numbers regarding dosages and comparing 5 grams of this to 400 mg of that! That's not science, it is arithmetics and it is useless when you manipulate it to win an argument!

No, No, No! Kre-Alkalyn is not another ester of monohydrate. It is the alkalized form of Creatine-Monohydrate, which cancels out the known side effects of Creatine due to its pH-correct composition. It is the original Creatine-Monohydrate after all, just the technologically revised version of it! Why is it so hard for you to accept that it is the %100 human grade quality and the previous Creatine-Monohydrate technology does not have that. Do you also have the same skeptical approach when it comes to your gear? Would you prefer a veterinarian grade gear over %100 human grade pharmaceutical with the same logic, per se? Would you say ''I think you are over-rating Primobolan , vet. grade Equipoise will give you the same results and it is cheaper anyways''?

Wow, you have all these personal opinions with no visible referential grounds. How can you even be so assertive without actually having the informational background for those assertions? It makes me wonder...

OP is an 18yr old kid mate

[Turkish Juicer]

OP is an 18yr old kid mate

I figured that out a little late. This was one of my first posts after I became a member and started posting on the forum.

At any rate, I am sure this was an informative post for at least some people, helping them out with their questions about the functions of certain supplements as well as timing & dosing etc.

[dec11]

I figured that out a little late. This was one of my first posts after I became a member and started posting on the forum.

At any rate, I am sure this was an informative post for at least some people, helping them out with their questions about the functions of certain supplements as well as timing & dosing etc.

yeah but i disagree on him using a shitload of stims, they will come back and bite him on the ass. over use and using for too long will lead to anxiety probs later on down the road and a mental inability to train without em

[Turkish Juicer]

yeah but i disagree on him using a shitload of stims, they will come back and bite him on the ass. over use and using for too long will lead to anxiety probs later on down the road and a mental inability to train without em

Agreed.

I was 27 when I used a supplement for the first time in my life. I remember eating 4 meals a days and working out 5 times a week at the gym when I was only 19 years old, I was growing like weed with no access to any supplement whatsoever. Not to mention I had a very little knowlegde of weightraining at that age, half my workout was BS and I used the machines only.

There are a few youngsters at the local gym where I have been working out since 2007, and they are exactly in that loophole you were trying to describe in your post: anxious without supplements. It really pisses me off and I have tried to talk some sense to them but they apparently are under the spell of hot-shot products like SuperPump and NOX3 and won't workout without them, lol.

At the moment, I am using Creatine, Whey and Casein. I think I am going to permanently limit my supplementation to those 3 that I benefit from the most and save my money that way. I have recently made a deal with a butcher and he has been giving me the most amazing lean beef cuts, introducing 2 extra lean red meat meals to my diet as opposed to buying bunch of supplements has made a huge positive difference in my body: I am burning fat and building lean muscle beyond my expectations, not to mention I am not even cycling at the moment.

[Gucks]

yeah but i disagree on him using a shitload of stims, they will come back and bite him on the ass. over use and using for too long will lead to anxiety probs later on down the road and a mental inability to train without em

19 now dec if tht makes me any more mature :P and i use quite alot of stims because im really insensitive 2 them. when i used no shotgun and no xplode i didnt get a hit off them at all. i work out early in the morning so i just need something 2 get me going. ive never heard of any1 i know having anxiety problems from stims? i cycle them 2 stop becoming more insensitive 2 them. never had a problem working out without pre-workout sups, they arent gonna help me gain any muscle i know, but if it helps me get a better workout then im gonna utilise that. u ever workout in raw gym in portobello btw? thinking bout joining it. my gyms dumbells only go up 2 30kg...need somewhere new i think!

[dec11]

19 now dec if tht makes me any more mature :P and i use quite alot of stims because im really insensitive 2 them. when i used no shotgun and no xplode i didnt get a hit off them at all. i work out early in the morning so i just need something 2 get me going. ive never heard of any1 i know having anxiety problems from stims? i cycle them 2 stop becoming more insensitive 2 them. never had a problem working out without pre-workout sups, they arent gonna help me gain any muscle i know, but if it helps me get a better workout then im gonna utilise that. u ever workout in raw gym in portobello btw? thinking bout joining it. my gyms dumbells only go up 2 30kg...need somewhere new i think!

im joining there at the end of this month, only good hardcore gym on the southside.
not trying to bash you on the stims, but be careful with them, dont use them constantly and i know alot of ppl who have fried their nerves on them, i've been experimenting with supps for your whole life span lol. rem what goes up, must come down! you can get a good workout without them via a decent and timed diet, only thing i use em for is cardio for focus cos i fookin hate cardio lol. what area you from in dub?

[Gucks]

im joining there at the end of this month, only good hardcore gym on the southside.
not trying to bash you on the stims, but be careful with them, dont use them constantly and i know alot of ppl who have fried their nerves on them, i've been experimenting with supps for your whole life span lol. rem what goes up, must come down! you can get a good workout without them via a decent and timed diet, only thing i use em for is cardio for focus cos i fookin hate cardio lol. what area you from in dub?

lol, same. cardio is the bane of my life, u know they have tyre flipping in raw? so much btr then f**cking treadmill! i get student discount and im in the institute, just around the corner from raw, so i was seriously considering joining. im in castleknock, u? ill be moving out near ucd next yr so ill be in raw next yr hopefully then!

[dec11]

lol, same. cardio is the bane of my life, u know they have tyre flipping in raw? so much btr then f**cking treadmill! i get student discount and im in the institute, just around the corner from raw, so i was seriously considering joining. im in castleknock, u? ill be moving out near ucd next yr so ill be in raw next yr hopefully then!

rathfarnham, marlay park area. yeah, tyre flipping will put manners in you alright lol. your in portobello inst?

[Gucks]

rathfarnham, marlay park area. yeah, tyre flipping will put manners in you alright lol. your in portobello inst?

lol, nah, institute of education on leeson street. still a baby 2 u :P finally made it 2 180ibs last week though! was my goal when i started, now im aiming for 210.

[aussie_bodybuilda]

of course it works out cheaper.... question is do u really want to spend time making the pre workout drink each time wen u can just get a pre-made 1 and chuck the already mixed scoops in and ur done... TIME = MONEY aswell just so u realise ... but then again u could make a better 1 then any out on the market if u know what your doing that is . plus if u work its alot easier to carry a little tub of jack3d around in ur bag then 10 different containers of stuff to mix up.

[stevey_6t9]

i dont need a pre work out supp, i use a thing called reflection to get me excited.

[Gucks]

of course it works out cheaper.... question is do u really want to spend time making the pre workout drink each time wen u can just get a pre-made 1 and chuck the already mixed scoops in and ur done... TIME = MONEY aswell just so u realise ... but then again u could make a better 1 then any out on the market if u know what your doing that is . plus if u work its alot easier to carry a little tub of jack3d around in ur bag then 10 different containers of stuff to mix up.

lol, i get ur point but ur not talking tht much time. i mix about 5 thins into mine, takes maybe 2mins? if u really wanted 2 u culd mix them all up in the correct preportions and have a pre-made 1 urself. and i always take it b4 i leave 4 the gym so no need 2 carry anything around.

i think the advantages of mixing ur own outweight the disadvantages. but hey, its personal choice, i only started this thread 2 give ppl an idea who never considered making their own :P

[Gucks]

i dont need a pre work out supp, i use a thing called reflection to get me excited.

lol, i used 2 use a thing called heavy metal music 2 get me pumped. i love my stims though...

[dec11]

lol, nah, institute of education on leeson street. still a baby 2 u :P finally made it 2 180ibs last week though! was my goal when i started, now im aiming for 210.

good lad, keep it up

[bonosmate]

brilliant lads thanks...must try this!!