Too many supplements (pills) - detrimental to health?

[austinite]

Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet !!!

[basketballfan22]

Gonna let you ponder that one BB, lol! After all, I can't have everyone running rampant on the board, using my reply style, right!? Looks like 405 already 'adopted' it as well. I must say though, it does make for a very clean, concise reply, doesn't it!?

Haha. Well I am sorry to have to disappoint you, but I think I figured out one way (I am not sure if it is the way you do it) to break up a single post into multiple quoted passages. Because of your refusal to help me out, I plan to start a thread teaching everyone on this board how to mimic the great gb's response style, lol. Just kidding.

I'll give you this though (back to multi-quoting separate posts): you don't have to quote them in the order they were posted. Your reply (with quotes) will post the quotes in the order you clicked on 'multiquote'.

There, now you can't say I never taught you anything, lol!

Well you have taught me several things about diet and nutrition, so I wouldn't quite say that.

[gbrice75]

Haha. Well I am sorry to have to disappoint you, but I think I figured out one way (I am not sure if it is the way you do it) to break up a single post into multiple quoted passages. Because of your refusal to help me out, I plan to start a thread teaching everyone on this board how to mimic the great gb's response style, lol. Just kidding.



Well you have taught me several things about diet and nutrition, so I wouldn't quite say that.

Bahahaha!!! Good job man, there's only one way to do it (that I know of), so you probably figured it out. Easy as pie, right? Once you realize you can edit within a quote/reply, it becomes obvious.

[gbrice75]

Btw (Austin), 3g citrulline, 2g arginine about 30 mins before workout today - NOTHING!!! No noticeable difference at all. It's as if my body just ignores everything I put in it that should have some effect - testosterone , supplements, etc.

[austinite]

Btw (Austin), 3g citrulline, 2g arginine about 30 mins before workout today - NOTHING!!! No noticeable difference at all. It's as if my body just ignores everything I put in it that should have some effect - testosterone, supplements, etc.

Interesting. Start increasing with a gram of each. You probably have pretty high NO levels already, and would take more for you to notice.

[basketballfan22]

Btw (Austin), 3g citrulline, 2g arginine about 30 mins before workout today - NOTHING!!! No noticeable difference at all. It's as if my body just ignores everything I put in it that should have some effect - testosterone, supplements, etc.

Your body isn't affected by testosterone ?!? I never knew that was possible. I knew you were insulin resistant, but I wasn't aware of that. That sucks man.

[AnabolicDoc]

We take supplements for many reasons - to increase training output in the case of preworkout supps, increase feed efficiency in the case of digestive enzymes and the like, and multivitamins for obvious reasons. When all is said and done, this could mean taking a LOT of pills, daily. Has anybody looked into the potential negatives of ingesting so many pills, particularly with regard to liver health. When I look at my new protocol, it begs this question:

am, preworkout:
animal pak (11 pills)
B-Complex (1 pill)
L-Arginine (2 pills)
L-Citrulline (4 pills)
Stinging Nettle Root extract (1 pill)
Digestive Platinum (1 pill)
Chromium (1 pill)
DHEA (1 pill)
Pregnenlone (1 pill)

That's 23 pills before I even eat my first meal of the day.

Then with each meal throughout the day:
Digestive Platinum (1 pill)
Chromium (1 pill)

That's 8 more pills

Before bed:
Stinging Nettle Root Extract (1 pill)
D3 (3 pills)
B-Complex (1 pill)

That's 5 more pills

Grand total of 36 pills/day. Makes me wonder, am I doing myself more harm than good...?

Only read first post but I've been saying this to my friends and family for some time. I'm subscribed, great topic.

[MuscleInk]

Only read first post but I've been saying this to my friends and family for some time. I'm subscribed, great topic.

Exactly. Something I worry about as well. I haven't counted the number of supplements I take. I'm sure if I did, I'd have a panic attack - and then need more pills for that too!!!!!

[basketballfan22]

exactly. Something i worry about as well. I haven't counted the number of supplements i take. I'm sure if i did, i'd have a panic attack - and then need more pills for that too!!!!!

Lmao!

[AnabolicDoc]

Exactly. Something I worry about as well. I haven't counted the number of supplements I take. I'm sure if I did, I'd have a panic attack - and then need more pills for that too!!!!!

Lol, I used to take a ton and a few years ago stopped all but the usual suspects: vit c, vit d, b complex, multi vit, prescription fish oil, added niacin a few months ago, melatonin at night, and recently added Resveratrol. And I think that's a ton and I know I'm at the lower end of the spectrum.

[MuscleInk]

Lol, I used to take a ton and a few years ago stopped all but the usual suspects: vit c, vit d, b complex, multi vit, prescription fish oil, added niacin a few months ago, melatonin at night, and recently added Resveratrol. And I think that's a ton and I know I'm at the lower end of the spectrum.

My list would be tantamount to the length of my dissertation.

Good to see you added Resveratrol. Many people over look that and its benefits.

[basketballfan22]

My list would be tantamount to the length of my dissertation.

Good to see you added Resveratrol. Many people over look that and its benefits.

Dissertation? You have your Ph.D.? May I ask in what field?

[MuscleInk]

Dissertation? You have your Ph.D.? May I ask in what field?

PhD & MD. Psych and Neuro.
MBA in Healthcare Admin

[basketballfan22]

PhD & MD. Psych and Neuro.
MBA in Healthcare Admin

That's awesome man. Congratulations.

[MuscleInk]

That's awesome man. Congratulations.

Lol, thanks. A lot of time in academia. Glad to be done!!!!

Parents are more impressed than I am but it was a good experience.

[basketballfan22]

Lol, thanks. A lot of time in academia. Glad to be done!!!!

Parents are more impressed than I am but it was a good experience.

Really? I love academia. I am a nerd, and I just love to learn. I plan to get my Ph.D. in mathematics. Hopefully I will get accepted into a prestigious university next year. How did your road in academia look? Where and what did you get your bachelor's degree in? Did you take time off before attending graduate and medical school? Did you obtain your Ph.D. in psychology right after your undergraduate education? Did you get your MD-PhD, or were they separate? What was your dissertation on? I apologize for the plethora of questions, but I am always interested about topics concerning academia.

[AnabolicDoc]

PhD & MD. Psych and Neuro.
MBA in Healthcare Admin

I had no idea you had a PhD too. That's it, I'm going back to school so we can have the same academic credentials.

[AnabolicDoc]

Really? I love academia. I am a nerd, and I just love to learn. I plan to get my Ph.D. in mathematics. Hopefully I will get accepted into a prestigious university next year. How did your road in academia look? Where and what did you get your bachelor's degree in? Did you take time off before attending graduate and medical school? Did you obtain your Ph.D. in psychology right after your undergraduate education? Did you get your MD-PhD, or were they separate? What was your dissertation on? I apologize for the plethora of questions.

His background from academics through his career is really impressive. It's just insane. But I'll leave it to MI to share for himself.

[MuscleInk]

I had no idea you had a PhD too. That's it, I'm going back to school so we can have the same academic credentials.

I kid you not....I considered a JD after my MBA because I enjoyed contract law and negotiations so much in the MBA programs as electives. Then I realized life as a career student wasn't aligning with my clinical goals. Lol

[basketballfan22]

His background from academics through his career is really impressive. It's just insane. But I'll leave it to MI to share for himself.

No kidding. As important as fitness and physical beauty are (I am sorry, but I am vain) to me, nothing is more important than intellect in my opinion. I am fortunate enough to be well-educated, and I like to make it a friendly competition to obtain more knowledge than someone else. Sadly, my younger brother may have me beat.

[MuscleInk]

Really? I love academia. I am a nerd, and I just love to learn. I plan to get my Ph.D. in mathematics. Hopefully I will get accepted into a prestigious university next year. How did your road in academia look? Where and what did you get your bachelor's degree in? Did you take time off before attending graduate and medical school? Did you obtain your Ph.D. in psychology right after your undergraduate education? Did you get your MD-PhD, or were they separate? What was your dissertation on? I apologize for the plethora of questions, but I am always interested about topics concerning academia.

I enjoyed academia, but after 14 years of post secondary education I figured it was time to contribute to society. Lol

A PhD in mathematics would be very impressive. I'm very much an analytical person. After completing courses in calculus, algebra, finite math, 4 courses in statistics, and courses on finance, accounting, and financial statement analysis (biz school), I realized crunching numbers was something I enjoyed, lol. I hope you're successful in your pursuits and ambitions.

My academic voyage was....colorful...to say the least. After failing three courses in my second year of university, I was required to take a one year academic leave. As disappointing as that experience was, it gave me the time to get my head out of my ass and screwed on straight. After that year of absence, I committed myself to my academic goals 1000%. I figured I had been given one more chance to prove I belonged in an academic path (or I didn't) and my stubbornness was enough to keep disciplined and committed.

My BSc was in psych. I completed the four year degree and continued in the psych program into my first masters (MSc). My MSc was a dual degree in psych and neuro. After a two year MSc, I enrolled in the MD/PhD program since I had completed all the pre-reqs for the program in medicine. I choose the combined program because I had enjoyed the research in the MSc and wanted to continue research along side a clinical path. My MSc dissertation (200 pages) was on neuroanatomical changes in brain morphology following various seizure thresholds as well as the impact of the blood-brain barrier integrity on brain function and physiology following various seizure stages.

While completing my MD requirements, my PhD research was in the area of brain aging and disease, largely among Alzheimer's patients. My PhD dissertation (375 pages) looked at global morphology, executive function, frontal lobe dysfunction and perfusion changes in AD patients. My favorite clinical rotation in medicine was cognitive neurology which influenced much of my clinical interests in medicine. After defending my PhD (what an experience THAT was), I did a fellowship in the department of radiology and a clinical residency in the department of neurology in California (my MSc, MD, and PhD were completed in Canada).

During my fellowship I had the privilege of learning several imaging modalities (CT, PET, MRI, fMRI, and SPECT) and while most where neurology applications, my Director introduced me to cancer imaging using the same modalities. After my research fellowship, I completed a 2 year MBA in California. During that program, I met my business partner (an oncologist with 20 years of clinical practice) and at the completion of the MBA program, we founded a clinical research company developing targeted cancer therapies. While building the company, I worked as a Neuro-oncologist at his clinics in California and provided grief support counseling to patients and families affected by cancer (probably the only clinical application of my psych education! Lol).

It was a long road that started with a lot of disappointment, but as I tell my employees, "when shit's not going your way, get your shit together and turn things around!!!!"

[Flagg]

I recently have started quite the cocktail (Thanks Aust! ) , Tryptophan, HGW, l_Arginine, Tribulus and ZMA and that works out around 11 tablets a day, but damn, 36 pills is crazy GBrice!

They didn't have any MACA the day I got my stuff but I heard that works really well with HGW??

[basketballfan22]

I enjoyed academia, but after 14 years of post secondary education I figured it was time to contribute to society. Lol

A PhD in mathematics would be very impressive. I'm very much an analytical person. After completing courses in calculus, algebra, finite math, 4 courses in statistics, and courses on finance, accounting, and financial statement analysis (biz school), I realized crunching numbers was something I enjoyed, lol. I hope you're successful in your pursuits and ambitions.

My academic voyage was....colorful...to say the least. After failing three courses in my second year of university, I was required to take a one year academic leave. As disappointing as that experience was, it gave me the time to get my head out of my ass and screwed on straight. After that year of absence, I committed myself to my academic goals 1000%. I figured I had been given one more chance to prove I belonged in an academic path (or I didn't) and my stubbornness was enough to keep disciplined and committed.

My BSc was in psych. I completed the four year degree and continued in the psych program into my first masters (MSc). My MSc was a dual degree in psych and neuro. After a two year MSc, I enrolled in the MD/PhD program since I had completed all the pre-reqs for the program in medicine. I choose the combined program because I had enjoyed the research in the MSc and wanted to continue research along side a clinical path. My MSc dissertation (200 pages) was on neuroanatomical changes in brain morphology following various seizure thresholds as well as the impact of the blood-brain barrier integrity on brain function and physiology following various seizure stages.

While completing my MD requirements, my PhD research was in the area of brain aging and disease, largely among Alzheimer's patients. My PhD dissertation (375 pages) looked at global morphology, executive function, frontal lobe dysfunction and perfusion changes in AD patients. My favorite clinical rotation in medicine was cognitive neurology which influenced much of my clinical interests in medicine. After defending my PhD (what an experience THAT was), I did a fellowship in the department of radiology and a clinical residency in the department of neurology in California (my MSc, MD, and PhD were completed in Canada).

During my fellowship I had the privilege of learning several imaging modalities (CT, PET, MRI, fMRI, and SPECT) and while most where neurology applications, my Director introduced me to cancer imaging using the same modalities. After my research fellowship, I completed a 2 year MBA in California. During that program, I met my business partner (an oncologist with 20 years of clinical practice) and at the completion of the MBA program, we founded a clinical research company developing targeted cancer therapies. While building the company, I worked as a Neuro-oncologist at his clinics in California and provided grief support counseling to patients and families affected by cancer (probably the only clinical application of my psych education! Lol).

It was a long road that started with a lot of disappointment, but as I tell my employees, "when shit's not going your way, get your shit together and turn things around!!!!"

I appreciate your in-depth response. That is really cool man. I am happy for you. I am taking a bit of an unorthodox path towards my Ph.D., so it is cool when I read stories like yours. I graduated last year with a degree in math and a minor in ecology and evolutionary biology with a 4.0 GPA. I wanted to take the year off to decompress because another 6 years of doctorate-level mathematics sounded rather daunting to me. I traveled for a few months after graduation, and I decided I wanted to experience the workforce for a year before I made any concrete decision about attending graduate school. I took a rather extensive list of mathematics courses, so the only aspect of my résumé that I need in order to attend a top 15 graduate school is a very good GRE Subject score in mathematics. By the time I (hopefully) start graduate school, I will be two years removed from academia. I will say that the year off so far has been amazing for me as far as motivation is concerned. I really miss learning.

Congratulations again MuscleInk. I think your history in academics is both inspirational and impressive.

[austinite]

Wow. lol, what happened here...

[basketballfan22]

Wow. lol, what happened here...

Lmao, yeah we sort of hijacked this thread. Sorry gb.

[MuscleInk]

Wow. lol, what happened here...

Sorry buddy. Probably better for PM. My apologies to the other members.

Respect.

[basketballfan22]

Sorry buddy. Probably better for PM. My apologies to the other members.

Respect.

No, I take full responsibility. I will private message members in the future if I have questions not related to the thread topic.

[MuscleInk]

I appreciate your in-depth response. That is really cool man. I am happy for you. I am taking a bit of an unorthodox path towards my Ph.D., so it is cool when I read stories like yours. I graduated last year with a degree in math and a minor in ecology and evolutionary biology with a 4.0 GPA. I wanted to take the year off to decompress because another 6 years of doctorate-level mathematics sounded rather daunting to me. I traveled for a few months after graduation, and I decided I wanted to experience the workforce for a year before I made any concrete decision about attending graduate school. I took a rather extensive list of mathematics courses, so the only aspect of my résumé that I need in order to attend a top 15 graduate school is a very good GRE Subject score in mathematics. By the time I (hopefully) start graduate school, I will be two years removed from academia. I will say that the year off so far has been amazing for me as far as motivation is concerned. I really miss learning.

Congratulations again MuscleInk. I think your history in academics is both inspirational and impressive.

Thanks BB22! Sounds like you've got a great future ahead.

[Ashop]

We take supplements for many reasons - to increase training output in the case of preworkout supps, increase feed efficiency in the case of digestive enzymes and the like, and multivitamins for obvious reasons. When all is said and done, this could mean taking a LOT of pills, daily. Has anybody looked into the potential negatives of ingesting so many pills, particularly with regard to liver health. When I look at my new protocol, it begs this question:

am, preworkout:
animal pak (11 pills)
B-Complex (1 pill)
L-Arginine (2 pills)
L-Citrulline (4 pills)
Stinging Nettle Root extract (1 pill)
Digestive Platinum (1 pill)
Chromium (1 pill)
DHEA (1 pill)
Pregnenlone (1 pill)

That's 23 pills before I even eat my first meal of the day.

Then with each meal throughout the day:
Digestive Platinum (1 pill)
Chromium (1 pill)

That's 8 more pills

Before bed:
Stinging Nettle Root Extract (1 pill)
D3 (3 pills)
B-Complex (1 pill)

That's 5 more pills

Grand total of 36 pills/day. Makes me wonder, am I doing myself more harm than good...?

That is a ton of stuff. I couldnt get that down daily myself.

[gbrice75]

Your body isn't affected by testosterone?!? I never knew that was possible. I knew you were insulin resistant, but I wasn't aware of that. That sucks man.

Sounds crazy, right? So many people have claimed TRT has changed their lives, they feel like a new man, etc. I've noticed no changes, neither mental (better mood, confidence, etc) nor physical. I can't say my body has changed as a result, at all.

Only read first post but I've been saying this to my friends and family for some time. I'm subscribed, great topic.

Thx Doc! Glad to have your input.

No, I take full responsibility. I will private message members in the future if I have questions not related to the thread topic.

Holy derailment!

lol, it's fine guys. Except for the fact I feel like such an underachieving dummy next to you!

That is a ton of stuff. I couldnt get that down daily myself.

lol... it gets easier.

[basketballfan22]

Gb, sorry for my ignorance; but have you ever/plan to use AAS? I don't know much about TRT, but I know the doses are much smaller than recreational doses. The only reason I would think someone would not be affected much by TRT is if that person already had normal/high levels of testosterone , but clearly that is not the case seeing as low testosterone is a prerequisite to TRT. I would assume that if you were to use higher doses (≈500 mg per week) that you would feel some effect, correct?

[AnabolicDoc]

Got all my stuff... tomorrow will be the first day using the Arginine and Citrulline, i'll let you know if I see/feel any noticeable difference!

Arginine appears to have genuine GH promoting effects. Unfortunately, I think you have to take at least 5gm per day. Here is a link to an article I posted here a little while ago.
Article: Arginine and Growth Hormone hGH

[AnabolicDoc]

Sounds crazy, right? So many people have claimed TRT has changed their lives, they feel like a new man, etc. I've noticed no changes, neither mental (better mood, confidence, etc) nor physical. I can't say my body has changed as a result, at all.

It seems that we see this complaint frequently on this forum. It's a common complaint in practice too as some patients who dont feel better with T therapy demonstrate poor compliance. This is mostly problematic in ppl with metabolic syndrome and/or type 2 diabetes (who commonly develop low T levels) as treating low T has been shown to improve common important blood panels in such patients.

An interesting study article I read not too long ago showed that when treating low T levels in patients who suffer from depression, as well as metabolic syndrome and/ diabetes, the typical blood panel improvements are not seen. I don't know if this relates to ppl in your situation but my point is that there are clearly subsets of the population that, for unclear reasons, don't respond similarly to T therapy.

[AnabolicDoc]

In regards to all the posts on NAC:

NAC is actually a pretty amazing supplement which has many health properties. Of note it has 3 specific common medicinal uses (amongst others):

1) It is the antidote to acetaminophen (abbreviated APAP) toxicity. Ingested APAP causes the formation of a toxic metabolite referred to as NAPQI. NAPQI is detoxified by the liver by a process requiring glutathione. Once glutathione is depleted, NAPQI accumulates causing liver disease and potentially death. Why not just take glutathione? It cannot cross from blood into liver cells, so that's why NAC is used. Once NAC is absorbed into the cell, it becomes glutathione.

I take one 600mg NAC for each Tylenol/acetaminophen 500mg that I take, which is not often. This is not based on any studies, articles, or info other than the above and is probably unnecessary with only occasional APAP ingestion, but I do it nonetheless.

2) NAC is used to prevent worsening of kidney disease, in patients with already impaired kidney function, caused by iodinated intravascular radiographic contrast - this is the contrast used in some CT scans, angiograms, angioplasty procedures, etc. NAC actually comes in an IV preparation for this purpose, but to save money many hospitals still use the oral form for this indication, which offers inferior protection. When undergoing an imaging procedure that requires such contrast, NAC is administered prior to the procedure to minimize worsening of kidney function as iodinated IV contrast potentially toxic to the kidneys.

*NAC has not been proven to prevent kidney disease cause by gadolinium-based contrast, which is that used for contrast-enhanced MRIs.

3) NAC comes in a nebulized formulation, known as Mucomyst (10% NAC), which is beneficial in breaking up bronchial secretions. It is used in individuals with emphysema, chronic bronchitis (COPD), pneumonia, and so forth.

In addition to all the above uses, it has recently been shown that NAC has a host of other benefits which is why it is a commonly ingested supplement.

[austinite]

In regards to all the posts on NAC:

NAC is actually a pretty amazing supplement which has many health properties. Of note it has 3 specific common medicinal uses (amongst others):

1) It is the antidote to acetaminophen (abbreviated APAP) toxicity. Ingested APAP causes the formation of a toxic metabolite referred to as NAPQI. NAPQI is detoxified by the liver by a process requiring glutathione. Once glutathione is depleted, NAPQI accumulates causing liver disease and potentially death. Why not just take glutathione? It cannot cross from blood into liver cells, so that's why NAC is used. Once NAC is absorbed into the cell, it becomes glutathione.

I take one 600mg NAC for each Tylenol/acetaminophen 500mg that I take, which is not often. This is not based on any studies, articles, or info other than the above and is probably unnecessary with only occasional APAP ingestion, but I do it nonetheless.

2) NAC is used to prevent worsening of kidney disease, in patients with already impaired kidney function, caused by iodinated intravascular radiographic contrast - this is the contrast used in some CT scans, angiograms, angioplasty procedures, etc. NAC actually comes in an IV preparation for this purpose, but to save money many hospitals still use the oral form for this indication, which offers inferior protection. When undergoing an imaging procedure that requires such contrast, NAC is administered prior to the procedure to minimize worsening of kidney function as iodinated IV contrast potentially toxic to the kidneys.

*NAC has not been proven to prevent kidney disease cause by gadolinium-based contrast, which is that used for contrast-enhanced MRIs.

3) NAC comes in a nebulized formulation, known as Mucomyst (10% NAC), which is beneficial in breaking up bronchial secretions. It is used in individuals with emphysema, chronic bronchitis (COPD), pneumonia, and so forth.

In addition to all the above uses, it has recently been shown that NAC has a host of other benefits which is why it is a commonly ingested supplement.

Excellent post, Doc. The conversion to GSH is why I started taking NAC. It's pretty amazing and surprisingly underrated.

[gbrice75]

Gb, sorry for my ignorance; but have you ever/plan to use AAS? I don't know much about TRT, but I know the doses are much smaller than recreational doses. The only reason I would think someone would not be affected much by TRT is if that person already had normal/high levels of testosterone, but clearly that is not the case seeing as low testosterone is a prerequisite to TRT. I would assume that if you were to use higher doses (≈500 mg per week) that you would feel some effect, correct?

I've run 2 cycles in my history, that's it. I saw moderate success with both, but also lost gains from both. Combination of restricting calories too soon/severely (bad idea!!), and I believe, low T levels being unable to sustain the added gains beyond PCT.

1st cycle: 12 weeks test e, 500mg/week (250mg 2x weekly)

2nd cycle: 10 weeks test prop + tren ace, 50mg each, ED.

Wife found out about these (among some other personal shit) and my life was a shit-show for a while. So, until the day she's ok with it (which may be never), cycling won't be a part of my future.

Yes, I'm certain a higher test dosage would yield more visible results, hope to put it to the test one day, no pun lol!

Arginine appears to have genuine GH promoting effects. Unfortunately, I think you have to take at least 5gm per day. Here is a link to an article I posted here a little while ago.
Article: Arginine and Growth Hormone hGH

Gonna look into this now, thx Doc!

It seems that we see this complaint frequently on this forum. It's a common complaint in practice too as some patients who dont feel better with T therapy demonstrate poor compliance. This is mostly problematic in ppl with metabolic syndrome and/or type 2 diabetes (who commonly develop low T levels) as treating low T has been shown to improve common important blood panels in such patients.

I'm not diabetic, prediabetic, or anything close to it - but definitely demonstrate metabolic syndrome. I'm insulin resistant, with fat cells that have maintained sensitivity while muscle cells have become resistant. So, I store fat, VERY efficiently.

Chest & Bi's

Decline Barbell Press
Warmup: 135lbs x 12
Warmup: 185lbs x 10
Work Set: 275lbs x 9 (failed on the 9th rep)

Hammer Strength Incline Press
Warmup: 180lbs x 12
Work Set: 270lbs x 6 (failed on the 6th rep)

Flat Bench Flye
Warmup: 35lbs (each hand) x 12
Work Set: 50lbs x 8 (failed on 8th rep)

Note: Was going to (and usually can) use 60's, but my left shoulder and elbow just couldn't handle the weight, so I had to lower. Probably won't do flye's again until they're both healthy again.

Concentration Curls
Warmup: 35lbs (each hand) x 12
Work Set: 45lbs (each hand) x 9/10 (right/left)

Standing Dumbbell Curls
Work set: 40lbs (each hand) x 10/10

An interesting study article I read not too long ago showed that when treating low T levels in patients who suffer from depression, as well as metabolic syndrome and/ diabetes, the typical blood panel improvements are not seen. I don't know if this relates to ppl in your situation but my point is that there are clearly subsets of the population that, for unclear reasons, don't respond similarly to T therapy.

If you're able to recall this study, I'd love to have a look at it. I've suffered from borderline depression for a LONG time, and as I said before, metabolic syndrome, so I'm an excellent 'candidate' to demonstrate this resistance to T therapy.

[tigerspawn]

Sorry buddy. Probably better for PM. My apologies to the other members.

Respect.

Yes post was more appropriate for PM. However, I enjoyed it immensely.

[tigerspawn]

In regards to all the posts on NAC:

NAC is actually a pretty amazing supplement which has many health properties. Of note it has 3 specific common medicinal uses (amongst others):

1) It is the antidote to acetaminophen (abbreviated APAP) toxicity. Ingested APAP causes the formation of a toxic metabolite referred to as NAPQI. NAPQI is detoxified by the liver by a process requiring glutathione. Once glutathione is depleted, NAPQI accumulates causing liver disease and potentially death. Why not just take glutathione? It cannot cross from blood into liver cells, so that's why NAC is used. Once NAC is absorbed into the cell, it becomes glutathione.

I take one 600mg NAC for each Tylenol/acetaminophen 500mg that I take, which is not often. This is not based on any studies, articles, or info other than the above and is probably unnecessary with only occasional APAP ingestion, but I do it nonetheless.

2) NAC is used to prevent worsening of kidney disease, in patients with already impaired kidney function, caused by iodinated intravascular radiographic contrast - this is the contrast used in some CT scans, angiograms, angioplasty procedures, etc. NAC actually comes in an IV preparation for this purpose, but to save money many hospitals still use the oral form for this indication, which offers inferior protection. When undergoing an imaging procedure that requires such contrast, NAC is administered prior to the procedure to minimize worsening of kidney function as iodinated IV contrast potentially toxic to the kidneys.

*NAC has not been proven to prevent kidney disease cause by gadolinium-based contrast, which is that used for contrast-enhanced MRIs.

3) NAC comes in a nebulized formulation, known as Mucomyst (10% NAC), which is beneficial in breaking up bronchial secretions. It is used in individuals with emphysema, chronic bronchitis (COPD), pneumonia, and so forth.

In addition to all the above uses, it has recently been shown that NAC has a host of other benefits which is why it is a commonly ingested supplement.

Thanks for the post Doc.

[AnabolicDoc]

If you're able to recall this study, I'd love to have a look at it. I've suffered from borderline depression for a LONG time, and as I said before, metabolic syndrome, so I'm an excellent 'candidate' to demonstrate this resistance to T therapy.

This is an article about the study that I found. I'll look for the actual study when I get a chance.

Testosterone May Help Depressed Men

Can you explain more about your insulin resistance (only if you don't mind of course)? How and why it was tested and diagnosed? If you prefer to PM about this that's fine too.

[gbrice75]

This is an article about the study that I found. I'll look for the actual study when I get a chance.

Testosterone May Help Depressed Men

Can you explain more about your insulin resistance (only if you don't mind of course)? How and why it was tested and diagnosed? If you prefer to PM about this that's fine too.

Thanks again for all the links and info, I love this stuff and it'll no doubt keep me busy.

Re: insulin resistance - to be perfectly honest, I've never been tested and it's my own 'self-diagnosis' simply based on (lack of) results in a controlled environment (i.e. training, strict dieting, etc.).

I have an extremely tough time adding lean muscle tissue despite having the necessary precursors in place:

Reason to adapt/grow: (i.e. intense training)
environment for growth: (i.e. caloric surplus, quality proteins/carbs/fats etc.)
Sufficient rest (questionable as to what would constitute 'sufficient', but I suppose it's rather individualistic)

However, I continue to put on bodyfat very easily. What really opened up my eyes to insulin resistance being my issue was one study (which I'll try and find) which had a single sentence that was like an epiphany for me. Paraphrasing:

"Fat cells tend to maintain their sensitivity to insulin even when muscle cells become resistant..."

This was a big 'eureka!' moment for me, because prior to this, I had no logical explanation for why my body wasn't responding favorably to training and eating to grow muscle.

I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on this, thanks!