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Thread: "Doubt" cast on necessity of Vit D

  1. #1
    OdinsOtherSon's Avatar
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    "Doubt" cast on necessity of Vit D

    Personally, I found these articles simply trying to have it both ways. The caveat is always "healthy adults." No mention of cholecalciferol levels proven by BW. No wonder there is so much confusion out there.

    BBC News - Vitamin D not needed for healthy people, study finds
    BBC News - Doubt cast on vitamin D's role against disease
    BBC News - Vitamin D pills' effect on healthy bones queried

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    And they didn't post a study, only talked about one. Wait till it comes out, it'll be debunked quickly I'm sure. Hell, it's only a hormone that's literally in every cell in your body right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    And they didn't post a study, only talked about one. Wait till it comes out, it'll be debunked quickly I'm sure. Hell, it's only a hormone that's literally in every cell in your body right?
    Exactly. Thanks Kel.

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    WELL IMO vit D is wayyy overrated. People are like oh winters here better start snorting the vitamin D by the pound. I don't think its anymore or less important than any other vitamin

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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    And they didn't post a study, only talked about one. Wait till it comes out, it'll be debunked quickly I'm sure. Hell, it's only a hormone that's literally in every cell in your body right?
    Agree. Anyone even attempting to say that D isn't entirely positively-impactful is completely uneducated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skaz915 View Post
    WELL IMO vit D is wayyy overrated. People are like oh winters here better start snorting the vitamin D by the pound. I don't think its anymore or less important than any other vitamin
    Wow...that's a very educated approach.

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    Taking any supplements unless you are deficient would be fairly useless and could cause harm!

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    There is a study that shaows over 90% of the adult male population is deficient in vit d. This was the game changing study when it came to medical professionals. Prior to that is was though 5 mins of sunlight/day was more than sufficient for vit d levels. I posted it here years ago. At any rate tegy can say what they wish - my BW showed a deficiency till I started taking 1000iu/day of d3.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tarmyg View Post
    Taking any supplements unless you are deficient would be fairly useless and could cause harm!

    Thanks
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    This is as far from the truth as it gets. Sorry T, that makes zero sense whatsoever. You're basically saying that RDA is on point and perfect. lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by austinite View Post
    This is as far from the truth as it gets. Sorry T, that makes zero sense whatsoever. You're basically saying that RDA is on point and perfect. lol.
    Well, I am saying that taking a supplement unless there is a need would be deemed unnecessary. Now, I assume blood work would show if you are deficient. I understand that RDA might not be perfect and is an arbitrary value made up but it is something. What should one go by in your opinion?

    Thanks
    ~T

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    Quote Originally Posted by tarmyg View Post
    Well, I am saying that taking a supplement unless there is a need would be deemed unnecessary. Now, I assume blood work would show if you are deficient. I understand that RDA might not be perfect and is an arbitrary value made up but it is something. What should one go by in your opinion?

    Thanks
    ~T
    Yes, but we have to remember how many times RDA and 'acceptable' serum ranges have changed over the years. There is absolutely, 100% and without a doubt benefit to some vitamins/minerals in excess of these ridiculous and absurd ranges. Ranges that will likely change, yet again.

    I'll copy from my Essentials Thread...

    That being said, there are 3 stages of state. Malnutrition, healthy and optimum. Malnutrition is obviously a poor diet. You're just not getting enough of the essentials and that will become problematic. Supplementation should NEVER be considered in cases of self-induced malnutrition. It's your responsibility to eat right. That's your first line of defense.

    Healthy state is one with a good nutritional plan. If you're happy with that, great. No need to change anything.

    Finally, there's optimal. This is where supplementation comes into play. Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) is merely enough to maintain a healthy state. These are also based on 2,000 calorie diets. They're likely to have your serum levels in range, lower range, but still in range. This range is considered healthy, or 'acceptable'. Most vitamins, minerals, herbs and amino acids are ok when these ranges are exceeded. In fact, you'd amplify the benefits in many cases. That stage would be considered optimum.
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    Quote Originally Posted by austinite View Post
    Yes, but we have to remember how many times RDA and 'acceptable' serum ranges have changed over the years. There is absolutely, 100% and without a doubt benefit to some vitamins/minerals in excess of these ridiculous and absurd ranges. Ranges that will likely change, yet again.

    I'll copy from my Essentials Thread...

    That being said, there are 3 stages of state. Malnutrition, healthy and optimum. Malnutrition is obviously a poor diet. You're just not getting enough of the essentials and that will become problematic. Supplementation should NEVER be considered in cases of self-induced malnutrition. It's your responsibility to eat right. That's your first line of defense.

    Healthy state is one with a good nutritional plan. If you're happy with that, great. No need to change anything.

    Finally, there's optimal. This is where supplementation comes into play. Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) is merely enough to maintain a healthy state. These are also based on 2,000 calorie diets. They're likely to have your serum levels in range, lower range, but still in range. This range is considered healthy, or 'acceptable'. Most vitamins, minerals, herbs and amino acids are ok when these ranges are exceeded. In fact, you'd amplify the benefits in many cases. That stage would be considered optimum.
    austinite,

    What concerns me here is the term optimal and by that I want to point out I am no way trashing your excellent writing on the matter. What is optimal is, I assume, a case by case basis? Is there also not a danger as science is proving that supplementing with Vitamin A will actually shorten lifespan (Using Vitamin A as an example) and therefore what might be considered optimal could in fact be dangerous!

    Thanks
    ~T



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    Quote Originally Posted by tarmyg View Post
    austinite,

    What concerns me here is the term optimal and by that I want to point out I am no way trashing your excellent writing on the matter. What is optimal is, I assume, a case by case basis? Is there also not a danger as science is proving that supplementing with Vitamin A will actually shorten lifespan (Using Vitamin A as an example) and therefore what might be considered optimal could in fact be dangerous!

    Thanks
    ~T



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    Yes, I've clearly stated (multiple times in my post) that the rule does not apply to everything. Even water and air in excess can kill you. But those are far and few between. Vitamin K for example, no need to ever use it at all unless you have clotting issues.

    We can't generalize and say "Nothing in excess of RDA/ranges is ok". That's not fair to those who really want to maximize the benefits.

    I take 1000 times what most people take with Arginine. I am at 5 times over the recommended B12 serum range. Massive difference my friend. Vitamin D.... Forget about it! 600,000 IU injections, son.
    Last edited by austinite; 01-27-2014 at 11:42 AM.
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    Lets not forget the supplement needs can change based on a person's activity level as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Lets not forget the supplement needs can change based on a person's activity level as well.
    Yes. For example, kelkel needs a tremendous amount because his veins are so massive ,, there's room for so much more..
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    Quote Originally Posted by austinite View Post
    Yes. For example, kelkel needs a tremendous amount because his veins are so massive ,, there's room for so much more..
    Finally someone noticed since I lost all that fat.
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    Here is today's response from Dr. Jeffrey Dach (one of the best) regarding the study referenced above. Good read.


    Stop Vitamin D, Are You Joking ? - Jeffrey Dach MD
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    Quote Originally Posted by kelkel View Post
    Here is today's response from Dr. Jeffrey Dach (one of the best) regarding the study referenced above. Good read.


    Stop Vitamin D, Are You Joking ? - Jeffrey Dach MD
    Very good read. I found it interesting that the Dr. mentioned "studies" such as these are often sponsored by big pharma. I also find it interesting that some people don't realize that the medical establishment has a vested interest in suppressing or "discrediting" the benefits of supplementation. It was just a few weeks ago that an article came out trashing all multi-vitamin supplementation.

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    Dach is one of the best. Glad to see he covered this well.
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    How would one go about determining the optimal level for anyone individual?

    Thanks
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    austinite,

    Sorry about keep bumping this thread but I am simply trying to learn. Where did you get the values that you recommend in your threads?

    Thank you!
    ~T



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    Quote Originally Posted by tarmyg View Post
    austinite,

    Sorry about keep bumping this thread but I am simply trying to learn. Where did you get the values that you recommend in your threads?

    Thank you!
    ~T



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    Research, studies, Trial and error, blood work, etc...
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