Milk Thistle is bogus

[ironbeck]

According world renowned liver specialist Dr. Rashide A Khakoo, milk thistle and any such so called liver protected supplements are bogus. Concisely put the single best thing to take for the liver is H2O (water). Anything taken into body via IM, Oral, SubQ has to go through the liver and on this principle alone any plus like effects is out weighed by the fact that it is processed through the liver. I spoke to this Doctor in person on this subject due to my wife working at the hospital.

[boxingfan30]

I have read this on quite a few occasions as well. The fact is the liver is the most regenerative organ in the body and we can see why since as you said "everything has to go through the liver" so it makes perfect sense. I'm not totally sold that nothing can at least help lessen the blow to the liver... but water is always key IMO as well.

[Chicagotarsier]

Yes and No. Focusing on the part of everything has to go through the liver. The wonderful 17aa steroids do not go "through" per say but use the lymphatic system to enter the body. Androil being one of these drugs. If you look a lot of the orals are made in the 17aa design including many of the more expensive gear for gyno and such. As far as AAS yeah..if you are going to do IM you are pretty much stuck with the liver hit.

According world renowned liver specialist Dr. Rashide A Khakoo, milk thistle and any such so called liver protected supplements are bogus. Concisely put the single best thing to take for the liver is H2O (water). Anything taken into body via IM, Oral, SubQ has to go through the liver and on this principle alone any plus like effects is out weighed by the fact that it is processed through the liver. I spoke to this Doctor in person on this subject due to my wife working at the hospital.

[ironbeck]

bump.........

[jimmyinkedup]

I think that NAC and UDCA are the only 2 iver supps really worth taking. Ironically those are the only 2 that have legitimate medical applications as well.

[austinite]

I think that NAC and UDCA are the only 2 iver supps really worth taking. Ironically those are the only 2 that have legitimate medical applications as well.

agree with jimmy. Both are powerful enough for everything we do and are administered even for liver transplant patients post surgery to stave off inevitable damage from surgery.

[thisAngelBites]

How can this be true when I saw Gregory House prescribe silymarin for a patient on House MD????

According world renowned liver specialist Dr. Rashide A Khakoo, milk thistle and any such so called liver protected supplements are bogus. Concisely put the single best thing to take for the liver is H2O (water). Anything taken into body via IM, Oral, SubQ has to go through the liver and on this principle alone any plus like effects is out weighed by the fact that it is processed through the liver. I spoke to this Doctor in person on this subject due to my wife working at the hospital.

[Bonaparte]

Yes and No. Focusing on the part of everything has to go through the liver. The wonderful 17aa steroids do not go "through" per say but use the lymphatic system to enter the body. Androil being one of these drugs. If you look a lot of the orals are made in the 17aa design including many of the more expensive gear for gyno and such. As far as AAS yeah..if you are going to do IM you are pretty much stuck with the liver hit.

Not quite.
17aa steroids do pass through the liver. But they are resistant to hepatic metabolism, so they cause a lot of strain on their way through.
Andriol largely bypasses the liver via the lymphatic system because it is dissolved in castor oil (which has a high molecular weight)...and it is not a 17aa. Just test base in castor oil.

And even if you skip the first hepatic pass, there are still a few more to be made, which cannot be skipped.

OP: to say that nothing ingested helps the liver is ludicrous, when NAC is used to treat acetaminophen overdose in hospitals. The doc just doesn't believe that the layperson needs liver support (because he isn't thinking about steroid users), and doesn't want them wasting their money on all the other quackery out there.

[ironbeck]

Not quite.
17aa steroids do pass through the liver. But they are resistant to hepatic metabolism, so they cause a lot of strain on their way through.
Andriol largely bypasses the liver via the lymphatic system because it is dissolved in castor oil (which has a high molecular weight)...and it is not a 17aa. Just test base in castor oil.

And even if you skip the first hepatic pass, there are still a few more to be made, which cannot be skipped.

OP: to say that nothing ingested helps the liver is ludicrous, when NAC is used to treat acetaminophen overdose in hospitals. The doc just doesn't believe that the layperson needs liver support (because he isn't thinking about steroid users), and doesn't want them wasting their money on all the other quackery out there.

Good point bro...............:-)

[ironbeck]

Common guys...........really going out of your way to prove a point? Sure nac is to treat tylenol overdose, and ucda can be used to treat some forms of cirrhosis. These things can't e used on a daily bases as liver protectants, long term use would cause more problems than not. Nice try guys in this case knowledge(information) isn't power lol. I think I will stick withe the 35yrs plus liver specialist in this matter.

[jimmyinkedup]

Both increase bile flow and reduce choleostasis. Its not a stretch or going out of the way at all. Also NAC is an amazing antioxidant in and of itself, with numerous other benefits liver aside.. I think NAC is prudent for daily use for prevention and UDCA for treatment.

[ironbeck]

Not quite.
17aa steroids do pass through the liver. But they are resistant to hepatic metabolism, so they cause a lot of strain on their way through.
Andriol largely bypasses the liver via the lymphatic system because it is dissolved in castor oil (which has a high molecular weight)...and it is not a 17aa. Just test base in castor oil.

And even if you skip the first hepatic pass, there are still a few more to be made, which cannot be skipped.

OP: to say that nothing ingested helps the liver is ludicrous, when NAC is used to treat acetaminophen overdose in hospitals. The doc just doesn't believe that the layperson needs liver support (because he isn't thinking about steroid users), and doesn't want them wasting their money on all the other quackery out there.

lol just to be clear this dr is not a guy, she is like 5' 98lbs I metioned this stuff to her and she tried to hit me over the head, and sais I sound like a medical student who read a book and knows enough to hurt someone lmao

[Bonaparte]

lol just to be clear this dr is not a guy, she is like 5' 98lbs I metioned this stuff to her and she tried to hit me over the head, and sais I sound like a medical student who read a book and knows enough to hurt someone lmao

I really don't care. NAC is completely harmless in moderation and dramatically improves everyone's liver enzymes.

[Times Roman]

According world renowned liver specialist Dr. Rashide A Khakoo, milk thistle and any such so called liver protected supplements are bogus. Concisely put the single best thing to take for the liver is H2O (water). Anything taken into body via IM, Oral, SubQ has to go through the liver and on this principle alone any plus like effects is out weighed by the fact that it is processed through the liver. I spoke to this Doctor in person on this subject due to my wife working at the hospital.

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. So does your doctor. Does he have any data to support such a claim?

[jimmyinkedup]

lol just to be clear this dr is not a guy, she is like 5' 98lbs I metioned this stuff to her and she tried to hit me over the head, and sais I sound like a medical student who read a book and knows enough to hurt someone lmao

You put too much faith in one persons opinion. Regardless of what her opinion is there is far to much data suggesting otherwise when it comes to NAC and UDCA.

[Times Roman]

How can this be true when I saw Gregory House prescribe silymarin for a patient on House MD????

I'm with Angel on this. If House recommends it, it's gotta be good! =)

[Ashop]

Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. So does your doctor. Does he have any data to support such a claim?

Well said,,,I couldnt have spoke it any better.

[ironbeck]

House? I've only watched one or two shows, not bad. Better than some of the garbage out there.

[ironbeck]

Just glad you chimed in, .......what ever happened to "bear" and alot of guys? YOU guys have been consistent since I joined this forum, but however there seems to be a pattern of "popular ppl" just disappear. ST pete got banned for being rude? I know the "staff" need to carry themselves in a professional manner.....I don't know I kinda miss these guys who rocked the boat some.

[gearbox]

Just glad you chimed in, .......what ever happened to "bear" and alot of guys? YOU guys have been consistent since I joined this forum, but however there seems to be a pattern of "popular ppl" just disappear. ST pete got banned for being rude? I know the "staff" need to carry themselves in a professional manner.....I don't know I kinda miss these guys who rocked the boat some.

He got banned for something else. But thats not public or needed to be said. Just didnt want incorrect info.
Your doctor sounds smart but also forgetting we are aas users and most docs can be close minded.

[Bonaparte]

Just glad you chimed in, .......what ever happened to "bear" and alot of guys? YOU guys have been consistent since I joined this forum, but however there seems to be a pattern of "popular ppl" just disappear. ST pete got banned for being rude? I know the "staff" need to carry themselves in a professional manner.....I don't know I kinda miss these guys who rocked the boat some.

What are you talking about?
Nobody memorable has ever been banned for being rude. They all deliberately broke board rules (like by scamming/sourcing).

[austinite]

What are you talking about?
Nobody memorable has ever been banned for being rude. They all deliberately broke board rules (like by scamming/sourcing).

Can I get a source check? Need to see if walmart brand NAC is good to go!

[slfmade]

Can I get a source check? Need to see if walmart brand NAC is good to go!

I haven't heard anything good about it. I've heard it's either underdosed or bunk. Either way...I would go with something you know to be good. Try Vitamin Shoppe and tell them slfmade sent you, but don't give out this source to anybody else as they've recently went private.

[ironbeck]

He got banned for something else. But thats not public or needed to be said. Just didnt want incorrect info.
Your doctor sounds smart but also forgetting we are aas users and most docs can be close minded.

Agreed

[Times Roman]

Can I get a source check? Need to see if walmart brand NAC is good to go!

it should be g2g.

here's a tip:

if you go to the pharmacy isle and get it at the register there, then your NAC becomes pharm grade. You didn't know, did you?

[bass]

my liver enzymes always came in the mid 20s at best, after taking NAK for few weeks they went down to low teens! that's enough proof for me.

[Times Roman]

Nak?

[krask028]

Completely agree... I sell vitamins for a living at a vitamin shoppe and have long since believed that milk thistle is completely useless. UDCA/TUDCA is going to be the best bet for liver support. Oh, and Roman, I believe he means NAC (N-Acetylcysteine.)

[bass]

No Ass kicking! LOL, you know what I mean...

[Times Roman]

Completely agree... I sell vitamins for a living at a vitamin shoppe and have long since believed that milk thistle is completely useless. UDCA/TUDCA is going to be the best bet for liver support. Oh, and Roman, I believe he means NAC (N-Acetylcysteine.)

I knew what he meant. just giving him the business