Clomid as a test booster

[strainer]

So I think pretty much everyone is now aware of the effects of long clomid only cycle on T levels for hypogonadism affected people

Imagine someone with normal test range was to do a long clomid only cycle to boost test, would there be any interesting potential gain over time? Imagine training for a year with test level of 1000s vs training one year with levels of 500s

[austinite]

1000's ? Plural? That's not realistic. Not with clomid.

[strainer]

1000's ? Plural? That's not realistic. Not with clomid.

I'm talking about 1000+, not several thousands.

[austinite]

No. Not a good idea and it won't work. You'll have to dose clomid fairly high and that comes with side effects that no one wants to deal with. If you want to cycle, then cycle. Being afraid of needles is not the way to go.

[strainer]

Hmmm. Why wouldn't it work? Sure, most people who try that are lowT, but when you google around there are a few that had their normal level natural T greatly improved from a clomid only cycle.. As for clomid side effects.. unless you go past like 100mg a day they are pretty much unheard of.. except for the extremely rare vision blur thing.

Cycling or needles are not the topic here, I am just wondering if lifting with natty T level of 1000 would make a significant difference in gains compared with lifting with T levels of 500.

[jimmyinkedup]

Studies have been done with arimidex where T levels were increased over 58% and no changes in body composition occurred. Tis was on healthy resistance trained males. Also interesting note, with clomid it works much better with those with low T than those with T within the normal ranges (thus thepct benefits). The benefits would not carry over to adding more muscle.

[strainer]

Since clomid just blocks estrogen receptors, leading in T production increase, I don't see why it wouldn't work on someone with normal T? There are very few reports available, but it does increase T even with healthy males.

Forget the clomid, you're saying that someone with TT level of 1000 ng/dl won't have any advantage in gaining muscle over someone with TT levels of 500 ng/dl?

[austinite]

Since clomid just blocks estrogen receptors, leading in T production increase, I don't see why it wouldn't work on someone with normal T? There are very few reports available, but it does increase T even with healthy males.

Forget the clomid, you're saying that someone with TT level of 1000 ng/dl won't have any advantage in gaining muscle over someone with TT levels of 500 ng/dl?

Not really. Would be slightly easier to maintain. 1000 ngdl is not that much more than 500. Both males would be within healthy range. My TRT protocol puts me at 650 ng/dl. I dropped it down from the upper 900's or so. Not a lick of difference.

[jimmyinkedup]

Since clomid just blocks estrogen receptors, leading in T production increase, I don't see why it wouldn't work on someone with normal T? There are very few reports available, but it does increase T even with healthy males.

Forget the clomid, you're saying that someone with TT level of 1000 ng/dl won't have any advantage in gaining muscle over someone with TT levels of 500 ng/dl?

No one said it wouldnt work in healthy males but it is shown in studies that the higher the initial T levels the less the effectiveness at increasing test levels.

Also the arimidex study I pointed out proves in black and white that such a change in T levels that you referenced (500vs 1000) does not impact body composition. Do I think it would impact things such as sex drive, yes, but body comp - no.

I know it is difficult to believe as so much emphasis has been placed on test and its effect on muscle growth etc, much of it by supplement companies trying to shill their wares. Even to the point of well thought out speculation, it would SEEM like it should make an impact, but the more you consider it looking at all the aspects, the more you reference documented studies disproving it, thee more it is clear that it just does not work that way. Too much emphasis is placed on T levels and capacity to build muscle when you are speaking in terms of the effect substances like clomid have on them. Another thing that proves (or disproves) this is the ability of males with extremely low T levels that have been able to make substantial gains if proper diet, training and rest are implemented.

[strainer]

Thank you very much to both of you for your answers

[lancerevo]

No one said it wouldnt work in healthy males but it is shown in studies that the higher the initial T levels the less the effectiveness at increasing test levels.

Also the arimidex study I pointed out proves in black and white that such a change in T levels that you referenced (500vs 1000) does not impact body composition. Do I think it would impact things such as sex drive, yes, but body comp - no.

I know it is difficult to believe as so much emphasis has been placed on test and its effect on muscle growth etc, much of it by supplement companies trying to shill their wares. Even to the point of well thought out speculation, it would SEEM like it should make an impact, but the more you consider it looking at all the aspects, the more you reference documented studies disproving it, thee more it is clear that it just does not work that way. Too much emphasis is placed on T levels and capacity to build muscle when you are speaking in terms of the effect substances like clomid have on them. Another thing that proves (or disproves) this is the ability of males with extremely low T levels that have been able to make substantial gains if proper diet, training and rest are implemented.

but a person who does have low T (TT <300) - they will see an increase in gains with clomid and definitely with exogenous test as TRT correct?

[austinite]

Honestly, I think we should steer away from the ideology of using clomid as a muscle building agent. Jimmy has a thread (can't link from phone) about potential possibilities of using it as a TRT drug. That makes sense.

Clomid will never bring you to supra physiological levels. Ever. It can only help maximize what your body can produce. It cannot and should not be compared to exogenous testosterone. These are 2 completely different categories.

I understand that the topic is clomid. So yes, more testosterone, regardless of the source, will yield better results. But with clomid it's likely negligible and not worth using for that very purpose. If it's used in the future as a TRT agent and leads to a slight edge, well that's just a bonus you'll get. Otherwise, it should not be considered a muscle building agent.

Once again, to step out of the "negligible" impact zone, you'd have to consume high, side-effect-full doses. And even that scenario could possibly still be negligible.