Ephedrine Sulfate and Dangers of Overuse

[Obs]

I have thoroughly used ephedrine as a pre workout and to prevent sleep. Stacked with aspirin and caffeine it can be a useful tool for weight loss or for a preworkout pump.
I will list some things about it here many of you know but hopefully anyone interested will find out something they didn't know.

****Ephedrine sulfate is a potent sympathomimetic that stimulates both α and β receptors and has clinical uses related to both actions. Its peripheral actions, which it owes in part to the release of norepinephrine, simulate responses that are obtained when adrenergic nerves are stimulated. These include an increase in blood pressure, stimulation of heart muscle, constriction of arterioles, relaxation of the smooth muscle of the bronchi and gastrointestinal tract, and dilation of the pupils. In the bladder, relaxation of the detrusor muscle is not prominent, but the tone of the trigone and vesicle sphincter is increased.

Ephedrine sulfate also has a potent effect on the CNS. It stimulates the cerebral cortex and subcortical centers, which accounts for its use in narcolepsy.

The cardiovascular responses reported in man include moderate tachycardia, unchanged or augmented stroke volume, enhanced cardiac output, variable alterations in peripheral resistance and usually a rise in blood pressure. The action of ephedrine is more prominent on the heart than on the blood vessels. Ephedrine sulfate increases the flow of coronary, cerebral and muscle blood.

In patients with myasthenia gravis, administration of Ephedrine Sulfate Injection, USP produces a real but modest increase in motor power. The exact mechanism by which ephedrine sulfate affects skeletal muscle contractions is unknown.


With large doses of ephedrine sulfate most patients will experience nervousness, insomnia, vertigo, headache, tachycardia, palpitation and sweating. Some patients have nausea, vomiting and anorexia. Vesical sphincter spasm may occur and result in difficult and painful urination. Urinary retention may develop in males with prostatism.

Precordial pain and cardiac arrhythmias may occur following administration of Ephedrine Sulfate Injection, USP.

Drug Abuse And Dependence
Prolonged abuse of Ephedrine Sulfate Injection, USP can lead to symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia. When this occurs, patients exhibit such physical signs as tachycardia, poor nutrition and hygiene, fever, cold sweat and dilated pupils.

Some measure of tolerance may develop with prolonged or excessive use but addiction does not occur. Temporary cessation of medication and subsequent readministration restores its effectiveness.******
^^^ref. Rxlist.com and druglist.com

Now... I can very safely say I have overdosed this over a prolonged period.

I recently had a bout with hypertension that I fully pin on the overuse of ECA stack.

When you step back and think about an overdose of blood thinnig asprin and caffeine with ephedrine sufate over a period of a week... Your blood pressure will get you.

Ephedrine can be a valuable tool used correctly. I truly believe as stated above that it increases skeletal muscles ability to contract.

I warn you all that overdoing it will increase blood pressure


The above info is for injectable ephedrine sulfate but I found it much more thorough than most of the oral ES info out there.

The expected half life of ES oral such as Bronkaid is 3-6 hours with a maximum dose 150 mg in any 24-hour period.
Bronkaid is arguably the fastest reacting and longest effecting on the market and is dosed with 400mg of guaifenesin per 25mg ES tablet.

As stated above your body will develop a resistance to its medicinal effects very quicly. Most run it one wk on one wk off or two weeks on two weeks off.

I personally have found I needed to nearly double the dosage each concurrent day. This coupled with my persona, led to extremely high doses to achieve my desired effect.

I reach a point of 6-10 caplets twice a day(about with 1300 mg of aspirin and probably 2000mg of caffeine....

^^^^that is bad for you. Very very bad. My blood pressure went through the roof and would jerk awake with my heart pounding and my chest aching. My gums, nose and throat were bloody and my muscles were cramping.

I will probably add to this later but this is a good start for anyone seeking info on ES.

I'm not a doctor but you should never exceed the recommended dose and if you do don't ever take more than four caplets of Bronkaid etc in one sitting.

[Obs]

One little thing I want to add to the side effects thats not listed is prostate health. All warnings indicate the temporary shrinkage of the urinary tract in men and it also states urinary retention in males with prostatitis. What I believe it overlooks, is that it can over a prolonged period of overuse, cause temporary swelling of the prostate. I have even experienced involuntary semen secretions during defocation because of its use. I know guys with severe prostate issues that blame years of ephedrine overdose as the culprit.

I have searched high and low for studies on the effects of ephedrine on the prostate and there is none that I have found. No doctor or person can convince me that it does not effect the prostate. I know because I do not have prostatitis and I have had it cause severe pain and temporary swelling of the prostate as have others I know.

Just something else to consider...

[marcus300]

When you copy and paste an article your always better referencing it Obs

[Obs]

When you copy and paste an article your always better referencing it Obs

I will reference the copy and paste portion, my apologies.

[Obs]

When you copy and paste an article your always better referencing it Obs

There ya go pooky, all better.

[DocToxin8]

While the ECA stack has its merits,
I'm not sure I see any reason why one should up the aspirin dose (or caffeine) when one needs to increase ephedrine due to loss of sensitivity.
Many years ago when I used ephedrine I didn't take any set amount of caffeine or aspirin with it. I took a single dose aspirin in the morning with some caffeine,
and then just used pure l-ephedrine.
I ended up chugging down 600mg ephedrine a day, so I wasn't very responsible, but I didn't get hypertension either. (But I was young)
And I did have some scary experiences.

Thanks for sharing.

Like any stim people need to be careful with this.
Sound like you took a severe beating, happy you stopped.
That would eventually had lead to a stroke or a heart attacks.

[hollowedzeus]

Using stimulants like this crashes my blood pressure. Has went down to 70/35 before but usually sits at 100/50 when on stims...

[Bonaparte]

Using stimulants like this crashes my blood pressure. Has went down to 70/35 before but usually sits at 100/50 when on stims...

That's odd. Do you have a know CNS disorder that would cause this sort of paradoxical reaction?

[hammerheart]

That's odd. Do you have a know CNS disorder that would cause this sort of paradoxical reaction?

Maybe he just got more beta-adrenergic receptors than alpha ones, so the predominant reaction is vasodilation.

[DocToxin8]

Using stimulants like this crashes my blood pressure. Has went down to 70/35 before but usually sits at 100/50 when on stims...

What kind of stims?
And do you combine it with any other type of medication/supplements?

[hollowedzeus]

What kind of stims?
And do you combine it with any other type of medication/supplements?

Ephedra, synepherine, yohimbine and caffeine.

I've always found it strange as it doesn't accelerate my heart rate that much either... except that one time it went down to 70/35 where it was resting around 130.

I take no medication whatsoever. I'm a clean slate. I don't know why it happens.

The only other thing I take is omega 3 and multivitamins

[hollowedzeus]

That's odd. Do you have a know CNS disorder that would cause this sort of paradoxical reaction?

Nope. Not to my knowledge. Getting my first set of blood tests on Tuesday. Never had any health problems before however there is possible a hereditary heart problem in my family as most of the males have had a mild heart attack... fun

[hollowedzeus]

Nope. Not to my knowledge. Getting my first set of blood tests on Tuesday. Never had any health problems before however there is possible a hereditary heart problem in my family as most of the males have had a mild heart attack... fun

Just to add.... they all did smoke. And my dad is currently doing alright with an enlarged heart...

[DocToxin8]

Nope. Not to my knowledge. Getting my first set of blood tests on Tuesday. Never had any health problems before however there is possible a hereditary heart problem in my family as most of the males have had a mild heart attack... fun

Yohimbine can have strange effects as it's an antagonist at virtually all adrenergic receptors, but to varying degrees. Meaning small doses often cause stimulation and increase BP while higher can decrease BP. (But high BP is the norm)
Otherwise I know that atrial fibrillation can decrease BP drastically while HR increase. If you have heart problems in the family and have symptoms of this Id do an EKG just to be safe.

[Obs]

While the ECA stack has its merits,
I'm not sure I see any reason why one should up the aspirin dose (or caffeine) when one needs to increase ephedrine due to loss of sensitivity.
Many years ago when I used ephedrine I didn't take any set amount of caffeine or aspirin with it. I took a single dose aspirin in the morning with some caffeine,
and then just used pure l-ephedrine.
I ended up chugging down 600mg ephedrine a day, so I wasn't very responsible, but I didn't get hypertension either. (But I was young)
And I did have some scary experiences.

Thanks for sharing.

Like any stim people need to be careful with this.
Sound like you took a severe beating, happy you stopped.
That would eventually had lead to a stroke or a heart attacks.

The ratios vary most recommend:1:10:3 E,C,A, or 1:10:5. The only purpose of the asprin is to prevent blood platelets from sticking together from the ephedrine as far as I know. That is a good point though. I wonder how necessary the asprin is beyond oh, say 500mg?

[Obs]

Using stimulants like this crashes my blood pressure. Has went down to 70/35 before but usually sits at 100/50 when on stims...

Thats very weird. Stimulants like this are the reason I wont touch recreational drugs. I get out of hand with legal stimulants, powerstroke would throw a freaking rod if he ever tried the illegal stuff. I have never heard of a stimulant causing a crash in blood pressure.

[hollowedzeus]

Yohimbine can have strange effects as it's an antagonist at virtually all adrenergic receptors, but to varying degrees. Meaning small doses often cause stimulation and increase BP while higher can decrease BP. (But high BP is the norm)
Otherwise I know that atrial fibrillation can decrease BP drastically while HR increase. If you have heart problems in the family and have symptoms of this Id do an EKG just to be safe.

I may well get this checked out after my bloods. Thankyou for your help doc again.

I don't even know how much good the stims do if my hr doesn't increase much

[hollowedzeus]

Thats very weird. Stimulants like this are the reason I wont touch recreational drugs. I get out of hand with legal stimulants, powerstroke would throw a freaking rod if he ever tried the illegal stuff. I have never heard of a stimulant causing a crash in blood pressure.

Yeah no I feel you man. Can tell you it wasn't fun that day lol

[DocToxin8]

The ratios vary most recommend:1:10:3 E,C,A, or 1:10:5. The only purpose of the asprin is to prevent blood platelets from sticking together from the ephedrine as far as I know. That is a good point though. I wonder how necessary the asprin is beyond oh, say 500mg?

You don't get any added benefit on platelets beyond 100mg aspirin.

Aspirin is an irreversible inhibitor of thromboxane A2 (an enzyme causing coagulation), so 75-100mg daily is enough to prevent this enzyme.
A higher dose of aspirin 500mg and up will also inhibit prostacyclin synthesis, which have beneficial effect on platelets.
This higher doses of aspirin actually negates the positive effect of small doses.
So higher doses of aspirin should be reserved for pain and inflammation IMO.

Aspirin is also a weak oxidative uncoupled.
That is, it has the same effect as 2,4-dintrophenol/DNP .
(Yet mildy) this is actually not necessarily unhealthy when it's mild.

It would require very high doses of aspirin to give DNP like effects,
but aspirin poisoning does cause fever, so.

But more to the point, high doses of aspirin = more sides, stomach issues, so on.

[Obs]

You don't get any added benefit on platelets beyond 100mg aspirin.

Aspirin is an irreversible inhibitor of thromboxane A2 (an enzyme causing coagulation), so 75-100mg daily is enough to prevent this enzyme.
A higher dose of aspirin 500mg and up will also inhibit prostacyclin synthesis, which have beneficial effect on platelets.
This higher doses of aspirin actually negates the positive effect of small doses.
So higher doses of aspirin should be reserved for pain and inflammation IMO.

Aspirin is also a weak oxidative uncoupled.
That is, it has the same effect as 2,4-dintrophenol/DNP .
(Yet mildy) this is actually not necessarily unhealthy when it's mild.

It would require very high doses of aspirin to give DNP like effects,
but aspirin poisoning does cause fever, so.

But more to the point, high doses of aspirin = more sides, stomach issues, so on.

When you put it like that... it should be an EC stack and take one aspirin per day.

[Richard Cabeza]

Aspirin should only be taken once a day with an eca stack as it has a longer half life than both ephedrine and caffeine, one dose of aspirin is sufficient enough for its increased synergistic effects of the caffeine and ephedrine but studies show this is only in people with high bf% who can be considered obese, if you are lean the aspirin isn't necessary for an ECA stack and provides no or very minimal insignificant synergistic effects ... I'll find the studies in a bit and post them

[Richard Cabeza]

The ratios vary most recommend:1:10:3 E,C,A, or 1:10:5. The only purpose of the asprin is to prevent blood platelets from sticking together from the ephedrine as far as I know. That is a good point though. I wonder how necessary the asprin is beyond oh, say 500mg?

The aspirin actually has more benefits than that, it increases the half life of the caffeine and ephedrine making it stay in your system longer, it increases the thermogenic properties and also inhibits Prostaglandins synthesis. Prostaglandins inhibit the release of Noradrenalin. Just for reference the caffeine inhibits the activity of Adenosine. Adenosine also inhibits the release of Noradrenalin. These two substances act as blockers so your body will release more NA than usual, thus the ‘stimulant’ effect and thermogenics I'll post some studies in a bit. I just have to find them again

[GirlyGymRat]

The ratios vary most recommend:1:10:3 E,C,A, or 1:10:5. The only purpose of the asprin is to prevent blood platelets from sticking together from the ephedrine as far as I know. That is a good point though. I wonder how necessary the asprin is beyond oh, say 500mg?

Never used aspirin in the stack. Only ecy. Interesting.

[Richard Cabeza]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1885260

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC155439/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3825983

These are a few of the studies, articles whatever...

[Obs]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1885260

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC155439/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3825983

These are a few of the studies, articles whatever...

Thank you richard! This is what I was hoping to get with this thread! I have already learned a lot from the other posts on this thread too!

I like eca stack but It has such a full body effect sometimes I wonder if its worth it. There is no system in the body it doesnt seem to affect wheter positive or negative at higher doses.

Really cool info!

[Obs]

One thing I will try to dig up just to understand a little better is that the acidity of the urine directly affects the duration of the half life by up to 200%. I will see what I can dig up.

[Richard Cabeza]

Thank you richard! This is what I was hoping to get with this thread! I have already learned a lot from the other posts on this thread too!

I like eca stack but It has such a full body effect sometimes I wonder if its worth it. There is no system in the body it doesnt seem to affect wheter positive or negative at higher doses.

Really cool info!

All good man, honestly i bounce around with it myself. I like taking the eca stack because of the energy, I'm burning cals like crazy when on but what really helps is taking it with bronkaid as the source of ephedrine, simply because i can do cardio like a fucking champ, i can breath great and my endurance during workouts is improved. Most stims cause my heartrate to shoot up and most times it interferes with my workouts, this does the opposite i can increase the intensity and my heartrate will be elevated but its not the same with say a stimmed up prewo that makes you feel like your hearts gonna blow out of your chest lol i take one aspirin with the first dose and about 200-400mg caffeine pills with each dose, body temp is definitely higher on cycle and the only real pain in the ass is fighting the appetite supressing part of it, forcing myself to eat to hit those macros

[Obs]

All good man, honestly i bounce around with it myself. I like taking the eca stack because of the energy, I'm burning cals like crazy when on but what really helps is taking it with bronkaid as the source of ephedrine, simply because i can do cardio like a fucking champ, i can breath great and my endurance during workouts is improved. Most stims cause my heartrate to shoot up and most times it interferes with my workouts, this does the opposite i can increase the intensity and my heartrate will be elevated but its not the same with say a stimmed up prewo that makes you feel like your hearts gonna blow out of your chest lol i take one aspirin with the first dose and about 200-400mg caffeine pills with each dose, body temp is definitely higher on cycle and the only real pain in the ass is fighting the appetite supressing part of it, forcing myself to eat to hit those macros

I based my meals around it just because it makes me not want to eat.

[Richard Cabeza]

One thing I will try to dig up just to understand a little better is that the acidity of the urine directly affects the duration of the half life by up to 200%. I will see what I can dig up.

Yeah I'd be interested in reading about that too, although its not too hard to balance out or manipulate the bodies ph levels, its just a matter of if you want to go down that road, lots of issues when your ph levels are out of whack. If you find any info please post links

[Obs]

https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailyme...rchiveid=26000 This is part of what I was saying about urine acidity affecting the half life immensely. The info just a page or so down in this article.
The smallest change in the ph balance of the urine greatly affects the half life but I am still trying to learn why.

[Richard Cabeza]

I based my meals around it just because it makes me not want to eat.

Same here, I try ti time it out so I'm eating right before i have to take the next dose, try to get a larger meal during that time and have a small snack while its at its peak, its super easy to go a whole day damn near without eating, thats no good

[Obs]

Sample from above article: Rate of urinary excretion is dependent on urinary pH. Percentage excretion of the drug and its metabolites is increased by acidification of the urine. Elimination half-life of the drug has been reported to be about three hours when the urine is acidified to pH 5 and about six hours when urinary pH is 6.3.

[Richard Cabeza]

https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailyme...rchiveid=26000 This is part of what I was saying about urine acidity affecting the half life immensely. The info just a page or so down in this article.
The smallest change in the ph balance of the urine greatly affects the half life but I am still trying to learn why.

Thats fucking crazy, but with getting enough water good water that shouldn't really be an issue, i mean idk about you but i drink about 2 gallons give or take a day, clear urine all day and peeing about every 20 mins it seems lol the quality of water and what we put in our body is important I'm sure but i would think you could just buy those water test strips and treat em like a pregnancy test to see where the ph levels are lol

[Obs]

Thats fucking crazy, but with getting enough water good water that shouldn't really be an issue, i mean idk about you but i drink about 2 gallons give or take a day, clear urine all day and peeing about every 20 mins it seems lol the quality of water and what we put in our body is important I'm sure but i would think you could just buy those water test strips and treat em like a pregnancy test to see where the ph levels are lol

Ok, I have eaten butt tons of bronkaid over the last ten years...
I have supplemented my caffein with coffee and tea etc but I noticed nothing gave me the pump like coca cola while on a stack.

When I was driving a truck and using it to stay awake I really got to experiment with it and found that constantly chugging 44oz fountain coke with the ephedrine could keep me going for days.

I just found a pubmed article explaining why... it was all about the ph balance. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3940208

[Obs]

Coca cola greatly acidifies the urine and increases the half life of ephedrine by up to double...

Now I feel like a freaking doctor! Lmao! I would have never guessed back when I was just trying to keep my truck between the lines I had mistakenly found the perfect way to optimize my little white pills!

[Richard Cabeza]

Ok, I have eaten butt tons of bronkaid over the last ten years...
I have supplemented my caffein with coffee and tea etc but I noticed nothing gave me the pump like coca cola while on a stack.

When I was driving a truck and using it to stay awake I really got to experiment with it and found that constantly chugging 44oz fountain coke with the ephedrine could keep me going for days.

I just found a pubmed article explaining why... it was all about the ph balance. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3940208

I don't drink soda fml lol thats crazy though that it has that effect i wonder what else does. I've drank green tea, coffee and even fucked up and had a prewo(never do this lol) hmmm i wonder if coke zero will have the same effect ? Idk if i really want to fuck with ph levels though just because of the adverse effects it has on your entire body. I'm at a crossroads with this one.... definitely gonna do a bit of research on this

[Richard Cabeza]

Just read the article... probably should have read that before my last comment haha interesting as fuck, I'm about to nerd out on this

[Richard Cabeza]

7.4 is the ideal healthy ph level for humans which is slightly alkaline, I'm wondering what issues one would run into being acidic for a prolonged amount of time or if there is any way to manipulate levels at optimal times just to increase half life of doses and then bring ph levels back to healthy alkaline levels ... there's gotta be a way to manipulate levels to benefit, I'd imagine its a pretty immediate process, my only concern would be the possible effects it could have on the body

[Obs]

7.4 is the ideal healthy ph level for humans which is slightly alkaline, I'm wondering what issues one would run into being acidic for a prolonged amount of time or if there is any way to manipulate levels at optimal times just to increase half life of doses and then bring ph levels back to healthy alkaline levels ... there's gotta be a way to manipulate levels to benefit, I'd imagine its a pretty immediate process, my only concern would be the possible effects it could have on the body

Im not sure but I do know true naturepathic doctors base their treatments almost solely off of various bodily ph balances.

[Richard Cabeza]

Im not sure but I do know true naturepathic doctors base their treatments almost solely off of various bodily ph balances.

For double the half life of an effective stack its definitely worth looking into, its just gonna be a few different subjects to research about but honestly i think its something that can be done safely and effectively, we fuck with all types of shit in our bodies taking this good juice and I'm over here acting like my ph levels being slighlty under are gonna kill me haha