A log about Water Retention Vs. Benefits of high E2 Vs. Other Sides effects
Note: I’m posting this at week 8 of my cycle… I wasn’t sure it would be interesting initially, but I think I’ll post it. I’m also going to keep updating this first post, rather than spread it throughout a bunch of posts so its easier to follow. I’ll note the updates here, but I'll also have a new post about it below so no one has to read through this whole thing again.
Background: I’ve ALWAYS used an AI, usually Adex… but I’ve been hearing repeatedly over the last year or so about the positive benefits of having higher estrogen while on cycle…. So why not give it a shot.
I’m in my first cycle where I’m committed to finding out how high my Estrogen can go and still get the positive benefits, without (or at least mitigating) any overwhelming negative sides. And then making thoughtful adjustments on the fly to control the side effects, but still stay on task, namely I’m trying to stay away from an AI during this cycle. I thought I’d talk through what I’m dealing with in case anyone finds it interesting.
Stats: 48yrs, 6’2” 240lbs, eating about 3500 cals per day, might adjust calories down as I go.
Goal: Maybe a little bulk initially, then mainly recomp.
Planned 15(ish) wk cycle:
Supplements: NAC, Creatine, fish oil, Vitamin D
Wks 1-4: 600 Test C per week
Wks 1-10: 50mg winny per day
Wks 5-12: 600 Test C per week, 250 Mast, 300 Tren E
Wk 13-15: Evaluate later
Note: I’m hampered by a lot of travel this summer, but I’ll do the best I can.
(Update)
Week 1:
600 Test C / 50mg Winny daily – Nothing to report
Week 2:
600 Test C / 50mg Winny daily – Nothing to report
Week 3:
600 Test C / 50mg Winny daily – Nothing interesting to report, maybe getting better recovery, maybe a little stronger. My weight is up to about 245.
Week 4:
600 Test C / 50mg Winny daily – Weight is up, about 248lbs-250lbs (probably water), feeling good… Not sure about the Winny, maybe should have saved it for the end… too late now.
Week 5:
Added 250 Mast, and 300 Tren E – REALLY feeling strong at the gym, definitely retaining water, weight is up about 15 pounds but I feel great and I’m having fantastic workouts. Not sure if its the Winny creating the new strength, I would have expected it sooner than week 5 if so.
Week 6:
Spent the day at a water park with the kids, had TERRIBLE water retention, it was really unsightly and uncomfortable. Super thick ankles and wrists, puffy fingers, belly hanging over my shorts, and my nipples were supper puffy, but… I’m strong as hell at the gym, and other then feeling tight through my joints from the water, I’m recovering great, and my pumps are awesome. I’m churning out more reps and my joint pain is non-existent, I really feel great overall. I think I’m going to just deal with the water for now but the prominent nipples worry me.
Options:
1)Add Nolva for the nipple worry? I don’t think it helps with water.
2)Reduce the Test because I’m assuming its causing the water? Maybe later…
3)Add an AI for the water retention…? Sorta goes against the point of this, but we’ll see.
4)Up the Mast to 500 and see about the nipples… probably won’t help the water retention.
First change: upped the Mast from 250 to 500 per week.
Week 7:
Nipples have calmed down by increasing the Mast. The water retention is ever persistent, I’m still puffy all over and my ankles are still full of water and I’m rather uncomfortable when sitting around… its weird, but its almost like feeling claustrophobic. I can breath ok, but I sorta feel like I can’t…. I’m about 17-20 pounds up (still limiting my calories to about 3400). Insomnia has hit me BIG time. I’m sleeping maybe 3-4 hours a night but its broken up into a few blocks of time…. BUT, I actually feel pretty good, and my workouts are great. I’m vividly alert at night… So I’m walking the dog at like 3AM just to calm down. I don’t seem to be suffering much from lack of sleep, but its annoying being up all night.
Week 8:
Recap: Running 600 Test C / 500 Mast / 300 Tren E / 50 mg Winny / still no AI. Still have Wks 8-12 left to go.
Issues:
1)The water retention is tolerable, but not ideal…. I can deal with it given my current workouts and strength, but my ankles are rather uncomfortable and I’m definitely laboring more walking up stairs and other cardio activities.
2)The insomnia is irritating me, but I think the water retention is actually harder to sleep with… when I’m on my back I’m feel like I have sleep apnea and I’m jerking awake all the time. But this idea is hard to prove, my blood pressure today was 122/70… I would think that if the water retention were a significant problem, my BP would be higher?
Now that I’ve been on everything for 4 weeks, I’ll get bloodwork, but I’m not sure knowing my E value is helpful in deciding what to do, but I feel I am at my limit for what I’m able to deal with… but damn, I’m strong as hell, and have ZERO joint pain. From the chest up, I feel big and full. But my belly is very loose and jiggly, spilling over my waist.
(UPDATE) Week 9:
More of the same, Awesome workouts, strong as hell, feeling great at the gym. But, feeling like crap sitting around, hard to breath with such a fat belly, and the insomnia is getting hard to deal with. For example, I’m currently in Toronto, in a hotel with my whole family. When I wake up at home, I can take the dog for a walk at 3am and no one notices. I’m limited in what I can do here without worrying them… so I just sit here in the dark listening to them all sleep. After this trip, we’re home for a week, then gone for another 2 weeks. But damn… my workouts are awesome.
Went walking through the woods and the cardio is tough. I know Tren is hard on the cardio, but I feel like the water retention is actually causing me more problems… plus, my girl is starting to get worried about it…. And she can be aggressively loving when it comes to my health…. for the last 4-6 weeks, I’m going to focus on shedding the water.
Options:
1)I could start an AI… but ….
2)The insomnia is a bitch… but I love the progress I’m making.
(Update)3)The water has to go… I’m just really uncomfortable, and the summer heat is killing me. I’ve been on the Tren E long enough that I think I can drop the Test a bit and roll with the Tren/Mast into my recomp phase. I’m up around 22 pounds in 9 weeks and my diet is pretty clean, so I know it mostly water.
Second change: Dropped the Test C from 600wk, to 300 wk. Still at 500 Mast E., and 300 Tren E. Since its all long esters, It’ll take a while. Might go 18 weeks. Dropping the Winny at the 10 wk mark.
Questions:
1)What effect will dropping the Winny have? Maybe the strength goes down a bit, but I don’t think it effects water? And I read conflicting thoughts about its effect on sleep.
2)Given I want to shed the water, and I’ve had a great 10 week run in the gym… Maybe start an AI now? Or Never?
(Update) The insomnia is really getting hard to deal with (currently 3:30am)… I’m sleeping maybe an 30mins at time, max 2-3 total hours per night, if that. I’ve ran Tren before (around 200wk) and never had this much trouble sleeping. I can’t believe 300/wk would change that much. I read mixed reports about Winstrol’s effect on sleep, some sites mention it as a side effect, some don’t. I’m happy my 10wks are about up and I hope being done with the winny helps the sleep. If not, I might cut back the Tren to maybe 150 per week.
Third Change: I’m going to cut out the last few days of Winny, I’ve been 9.5 weeks, but I want to see if dropping it helps my sleep before I decide about changing the Tren.
Public service announcement… Long esters are convenient for shot timing, but I’m realizing that IF I cut back the Tren, and with my already cut-back Test C, that any improvement will take a long time. I hope dropping the Winstrol will have a much quicker effect, we’ll see.
