squats

i've never been big into squats, and have recently realized thats a very important part of my workout, i just started doing deadlifts (yesterday) and have been doing the cybex leg press.. my problem is that squats hurt my lower back (a little) and dont feel good on my knees at all.. it feels too awkward and almost like its bad on my joints rather than my muscles. nothing to do with age cuz im young enough ;) .

Any advice on this? and my leg day is the day after my back day, so im doing deads on mon and squats on tues.. this could be a problem on my lower back?

would a lifting belt help at all? i've heard mixed info on this that it is actually worse on you.

xfade7

A weight belt would help... I always use it when doing the heavier sets on all my powerlifting. You shouldn't really be doing squats the day after deadlifts... spread out your routine a little.
If you're just starting to do squats I would just make sure that you start really light, perfect your technique and then start lifting heavy to make sure that you dont cause any injuries.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ejuicer

A weight belt would help... I always use it when doing the heavier sets on all my powerlifting. You shouldn't really be doing squats the day after deadlifts... spread out your routine a little.
If you're just starting to do squats I would just make sure that you start really light, perfect your technique and then start lifting heavy to make sure that you dont cause any injuries.

Couldn't agree more. Now heres a potato running a football :spudnikha

u might wanna do what i do and just stick to leg press and smith mach. squats, they both feel good im not a big squat fan either so i stick to those two their bassically working the same muscle group anyways esspesially smith mach. squats

You should feel lucky.....if I was at work I'd have posted this within three minutes but due to the fact I'm at home I had to search a while to get it for you.................here you go............this bro knows his stuff pat. This is another bro on the board...name...Phreezer. If this doesn't help then it's time to take up kniting. hahahaha

"The squat should be a standard exercise in any lifters program. Whether the goal is strength, hypertrophy (increase in muscle size), increased accelerative ability, or a heightened vertical jump, the squat is the tool for the task. In addition to working the muscles of the legs, hips, lower back, abdomen, and obliques, the demands of squatting should stimulate a growth response from the body that will carry over into strength and size increases in other areas.

The basic technique of the squat consists in placing a loaded barbell across the shoulders, then bending at the hips and knees, descending into the bottom position, “the hole,” and returning to an erect position. We will examine the squat from the deck up.

Stance. This varies from individual to individual, but one thing is necessary for all who wish progress: you must keep your feet flat on the deck at all times. The center of gravity may be maintained over the center of the foot, but it is generally best to push through the heels. This will help in maintaining bar position and help eliminate a small degree of forward lean. To achieve this, some people find it necessary to curls the toes upward while squatting, forcing their heels flat. The feet should be placed at least shoulder width apart, and some individuals may best utilize a stance nearly twice shoulder width. The narrower stance tends to place more direct emphasis on the quads, and creates a longer path for the bar to travel. The wider stance (often called “sumo”) tends to be favored by many powerlifters, although some have enjoyed great success with a relatively narrow stance. The sumo stance place more emphasis on the adductors and hamstrings. As a rule of thumb, lifters with longer legs will need a wider stance than shorter individuals. However, there are exceptions. A wider stance will tend to recruit both the adductors and buttocks to a greater degree than a narrow stance. (1)

The shins should be a close to vertical as possible throughout the entire movement. This lessens the opening of the knee joint, and reduces the shearing force as well. By reducing the workload that the knee joint is required to handle, more of the work is accomplished by the larger muscles around the hip joint. For powerlifters, this decreases the distance one must travel with the bar, as the further the knee moves forward, the lower the hips must descend to break parallel.

There are several schools of thought on squat depth. Many misinformed individuals caution against squatting below parallel, stating that this is hazardous to the knees. Nothing could be further from the truth. (2) Stopping at or above parallel places direct stress on the knees, whereas a deep squat will transfer the load to the hips,(3) which are capable of handling a greater amount of force than the knees should ever be exposed to. Studies have shown that the squat produces lower peak tibeo-femoral(stress at the knee joint) compressive force than both the leg press and the leg extension.(4) For functional strength, one should descend as deeply as possible, and under control. (yes, certain individuals can squat in a ballistic manner, but they are the exception rather than the rule). The further a lifter descends, the more the hamstrings are recruited, and proper squatting displays nearly twice the hamstring involvement of the leg press or leg extension. (5,6) and as one of the functions of the hamstring is to protect the patella tendon (the primary tendon involved in knee extension) during knee extension through a concurrent firing process, the greatest degree of hamstring recruitment should provide the greatest degree of protection to the knee joint. (7) When one is a powerlifter, the top surface of the legs at the hip joint must descend to a point below the top surface of the legs at the knee joint.

Knee injuries are one of the most commonly stated problems that come from squatting, however, this is usually stated by those who do not know how to squat. A properly performed squat will appropriately load the knee joint, which improves congruity by increasing the compressive forces at the knee joint. (8,(9) which improves stability, protecting the knee against shear forces. As part of a long-term exercise program, the squat, like other exercises, will lead to increased collagen turnover and hypertrophy of ligaments. (10,11) At least one study has shown that international caliber weightlifters and powerlifters experience less clinical or symptomatic arthritis. (12) Other critics of the squat have stated that it decreases the stability of the knees, yet nothing could be further from the truth. Studies have shown that the squat will increase knee stability by reducing joint laxity, as well as decrease anterior-posterior laxity and translation. (13,14) The squat is, in fact, being used as a rehabilitation exercise for many types of knee injuries, including ACL repair. (15)

One of the most, if not the most critical factor in squatting is spinal position. It is incredibly important not to round the back. This can lead to problems with the lower back, and upper back as well. The back should be arched, and the scapulae retracted, to avoid injury. This position must be maintained throughout the entire lift, as rounding on the way up is even more common than rounding on the way down, and people who make this mistake are the ones who perpetuate the “squats are bad for your back” myth. Furthermore, spinal position is essential to maintaining a proper combined center of gravity (CCOG). The farther one leans forward or, even worse, rounds the back, the more strain the erectors are forced to bear, and the less the abdominals can contribute to the lift. To say nothing of the fact that the greater the lean, the greater the shearing force placed on the vertebrae. Proper spinal alignment will assist in ensuring that the majority of the force the spine must bear is compressive in nature, as it should be. Another reason for descending below parallel is that the sacrum undergoes a process known as nutation (it tilts forward, relative to the two ilia on either side of it). At only 90 degrees of knee flexion, the sacrum is still tilted backward, which inhibits proper firing of the erectors and gluteus maximus and minimus. Going through a full range of motion completes the rotation of the sacrum and allows maximal muscular recruitment.

“Squats are bad for your back” is yet another cry of the weak of both leg and spirit. While an improperly performed squat can cause problems, so can improperly performed barbell curl, yet many of the people who use the squat rack only to curl do not seem to have a problem strengthening their elbow flexors. While the squat can be hazardous to the back among the untrained who often incline the torso to an unsafe degree, as well as round the back, skilled athletes have been shown to minimize trunk segment torques by maintaining a more erect posture. (16) It has been positively shown that maintaining an upright torso during the squatting motion reduces both spinal compression and shear forces. (17) Several studies have shown that weightlifters experience not only less back injury and pain that many other athletes, but often even less than inactive individuals, which clearly displays that a proper weight training program, which includes squatting, is beneficial in avoiding injury. (18,19)

The placement of the bar is another very important consideration when squatting. If one places the bar high on the traps, more emphasis will be placed on the quads, and a low bar squat recruits more of the lower back and hamstrings, by virtue of back extension, simply because the lower the bar is placed, the greater the degree of forward lean. Even when high bar squatting, the bar should NEVER be placed on the neck. This is far more stress than the cervical vertebrae should be forced to bear. When a powerlifter squats with a low bar position, the bar should be placed no lower than three centimeters below the top of the anterior deltoids. For other lifters, comfort and flexibility will go a long way towards determining bar positioning. When gripping the bar, at first it is best to place your hands as close together as possible, to maintain tension in the upper back, and to avoid any chance of the bar slipping. As a general rule, the lower you place the bar, the wider your hands will have to be. Anything placed between the bar and the lifter, such as a pad or towel, decreases the force of friction and increases the chance of the bar slipping. It is to avoid injuries that this practice is banned in competition. Also, this will artificially raise the lifter’s CCOG, which makes it harder to balance under a heavy load.

Look slightly upward when squatting, to avoid rounding the upper back. The movement should be initiated from the hips, by pushing the glutes back, not down. This will assist in keeping the shins vertical. On the way down, keep the torso as close to vertical as possible, continue to push the hips back, and push the knees out to the sides, avoiding the tendency to allow them to collapse inward. The manner in which the lifter descends will greatly influence the manner in which the ascent is made. When the necessary depth is achieved, begin ascending by pushing the head back, and continue to concentrate on pushing the knees outward.

One of the most common mistakes made while squatting, or performing any exercise for that matter, is improper breathing. At first, the lifter should inhale on the way down, and exhale on the way up. Many advanced lifters will take several large breaths, hold it all in on the way down, and then exhale forcefully at their sticking point on the way up. This technique, known as the “Partial Valsalva,” requires practice like any other.

There are many other types of squats, but all of them are secondary to the squat itself, which is appropriately termed the “King of Exercises.”

The front squat is performed in a similar manner, but the bar is held in the clean position, across the anterior deltoids, not the clavicles. The hands should be slightly wider than shoulder width, and the elbows should be elevated as much as possible. The bar is maintained as high as possible by elevating the elbows. This allows the lifter to maintain a more upright posture, and increases the emphasis on the glutes, while lessening the involvement of the lower back. This exercise may allow a lifter who lacks the flexibility required to perform a full squat achieve a reasonable depth while improving flexibility. The front squat will place far more emphasis on the quadriceps muscles and less recruitment of the hamstrings takes place. 7 (20) When comparing the squat to other exercises, it is important to note that the squat causes less compressive force to the knee joint, and greater hamstring activation, than both the leg press and the leg extension. (21)

Another popular type of squatting exercise is the split squat (“lunge”). In this type of squat, the legs are placed at approximately shoulder width, but one foot is out in front of the athlete and one is placed to the rear, as if a lifter has just completed the jerk portion of the clean and jerk. The athlete descends by bending the front leg until the knee is slightly forward of the toes. The shin of the front leg should be ten degrees past perpendicular to the floor. It is important to maintain an upright posture when doing so. As when squatting, co-activation of the hamstring serves to protect the knee joint during flexion, (22) which is very important as often a greater degree of flexion will occurring when performing the split squat.

Certain misinformed and so-called “personal trainers” will have people squat in a smith machine, which is, quite simply, an idea both hideous and destructive. This is often done under the misguided “squat this way until you are strong enough to perform a regular squat” premise. Even if one overlooks the obvious fact that it is better to learn to do something right than build bad habits from the start, there are numerous other factors to be considered. The smith machine stabilizes the bar for the lifter, which does not teach the skill of balancing the bar, balance being important to any athlete, as well as the fact that free weight squatting strengthens the synergists which goes a long way to preventing injuries. A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and the smith machine leaves far too many weak links. To say nothing of the fact that free weights provide a greater transfer of functional strength than machines. (23)Furthermore, the bar moves straight up and down, and very few people squat in this manner, which means that the smith machine does not fit a lifters optimal strength curve. (24) The smith machine also requires that the lifter either squats with his torso much closer to vertical than would be done with a real squat, which mechanically decreases the involvement of both the spinal erectors and the hamstrings. While this would be fine if it was done by the lifters muscular control, when the smith machine does this it is disadvantageous to the lifter by virtue of decreasing the ability of the hamstrings to protect the knee joint. Another mistake made, aside from simply using it in the first place, is allow the knees to drift forward over the toes, the chance of which is increased by the smith machine. As was previously mentioned, this greatly increases the shearing force on the knees. This from a device touted by the ignorant as “safe.”

There is a great debate about the use of belts when squatting, some sources insist that you must wear one, while others state quite the opposite. It is worth noting that there are plusses and minuses to wearing one. Using a proper belt while squatting can serve to increase intra-abdominal pressure (IAP) which will serve to stabilize the spinal column, reducing compressive forces acting upon the spine and reducing back muscle forces. (25) However, muscle activity of the trunk appears to be significantly reduced when using a weight belt, which can lead to the muscles of the trunk receiving a less than optimal stimulus when using a belt. (26) Other proponents of belt use have shown that the use of a properly designed power belt may improve a lifter's explosive power by increasing the speed of the movement without compromising the joint range of motion or overall lifting technique. (27)

There are numerous methods of utilizing the squat in any athlete’s training program. While a variety of rep and set ranges are optimal for a bodybuilder who wishes to maximize hypertrophy, an athlete’s must carefully plan a training program to meet their goals. Even though squatting will lead to gains in size, strength, and jumping ability, the more specific the program, the greater the results. When an untrained subject begins lifting, numerous programs produce gains in practically all areas, but this changes rapidly, with limited progress being made unless something is altered. (28)

To utilize the squat to gain in size is both simple and complex. Individuals will respond to a variety of rep ranges in different manners based on fiber type, training history, biomechanics, injuries, etc. Bodybuilders, who are concerned exclusively with gains in size, should squat heavy, as fast-twitch muscle fibers have the greatest potential for hypertrophy. However, sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (growth of muscle tissue outside of the sarcoplasmic reticulum) will contribute to overall muscular size, and is obtained by training with lighter weights and higher reps. Rate of training is once again an individual decision, but as a general rule, the greater the volume of training, including time under tension (TUT) per workout, the longer one must wait before recovery is optimized, allowing supercompensation to take place. A word of caution about performing higher repetitions while squatting: As the set progresses, the degree of forward lean increases. While this is desirable to increase the stress on the hamstrings, it takes the emphasis off of the quadriceps, as well as increases the risk of injury. (29)

An athlete wishing to improve his vertical jump should not only squat, but perform a variety of assistance work specific to both improving squatting strength as well as specifically improving jumping skill. As jumping requires a great expenditure of force in a minimal amount of time, exercises such as squatting should be performed to increase muscle power, as muscle cross-sectional area significantly correlates to force output. (30) When wishing to increase one’s power through squatting to assist in the vertical jump, one must train to generate a high degree of force.(31 ,32 ,33 ) This is done by squatting a dynamic manner, where one is attempting to generate a large amount of power while using submaximal weights. This has been shown to provide a great training stimulus for improving the vertical jump. (34) A program consisting of a session once-weekly heavy squatting, ballistic lifting, and plyometric training, with each being performed during a separate workout, should provide maximal stimulus while allowing maximal recovery and supercompensation.(35,36)

When training to improve one’s overall squatting ability, expressed as a one-repetition maximum (1rm), once again a variety of programs may be utilized. The most common is a simple periodized program where, over time, the training weight is increased and the number of repetitions decreases. This sort of program is utilized by both Weightlifters and Powerlifters alike. A sample periodized program is included in Appendix B. Some sources state that you must train to failure, while others state that one should train until form begins to break down, leaving a small reserve of strength but reducing the risk of injury. It should be stated that there is no evidence that indicates training to failure produces a greater training stimulus than traditional volume training.

Far and away the most complicated, and controversial training program is the conjugate training method. Using this method one trains to develop maximal acceleration in the squat during one workout, and in another workout (72 hours later) generate maximum intensity in a similar exercise to the squat. This is based on an incredibly lengthy study by A. S. Prelepin, one of the greatest sports physiologists of the former Soviet Union. (37) This method also uses the practice of compensatory acceleration, where an athlete attempts to generate as much force as possible, by not only generating maximal acceleration, but by continuing to attempt to increase acceleration as the lifter’s leverage improves. The addition of chains or bands can increase the workload as well as force the athlete to work harder to accelerate the bar. Utilizing this system, the squat is trained for low repetitions (2) but a high number of sets (10 – 12), with training intensities being 50 – 70% of the athlete’s 1rm. Rest periods are short (45 – 75 seconds), and the squats are often performed on a box, which breaks up the eccentric-concentric chain, and inhibits the stretch reflex, forcing the athlete to generate the initial acceleration out of the bottom of the lift without the benefit of the elasticity of the muscle structure.

During the second workout, an exercise which taxes the muscles recruited when squatting, but not an actual squat, is performed for very low repetitions (1-3, usually one). The goal on this day is to improve neuromuscular coordination by increased motor unit recruiting, increased rate coding, and motor unit synchronization. This allows the athlete to continue to generate maximal intensity week after week, but by rotating exercises regularly optimal performance is maintained. For one microcycle, a squat-like exercise is performed, such as a box squat, rack squat, or front squat is performed, then the athlete switches to a different type of exercise, such as good mornings, performed standing, seated, from the rack, etc. for another microcycle, then switches exercises again, often to a pulling type exercise such as deadlifts with a variety of stances, from pins, from a platform, or any number of other variations. Once again, chains or bands may be added to increase the workload. A sample training program is included in Appendix B, and a variety of maximal effort exercises can be found in Appendix C.

Assistance work for the squat is of the utmost importance. The primary muscles which contribute to the squat, in no particular order, are the quadriceps, hamstrings, hip flexors/extensors, abdominals, and spinal erectors. When an athlete fails to rise from the bottom of a squat, it is important to note that not all of the muscles are failing simultaneously. Rather, a specific muscle will fail, and the key to progress is identifying the weakness, then strengthening it. A partial list of assistance exercises is provided in Appendix D. While it is impossible to simply state that if x happens when squatting, it is muscle y that is causing the problem, some general guidelines follow. If a lifter fails to rise from the bottom of a squat, it generally indicates either a weakness in the hip flexors and extensors, or a lack of acceleration due to inhibition of the golgi tendon organ (no stretch reflex – train with lighter weight and learn to accelerate if this is the case). If an athlete has a tendency to lean forward and dump the bar overhead, it generally indicates either weak hamstrings or erectors. If an athlete has trouble stabilizing the bar, or maintaining an upright posture, it is often due to a weakness in the abs.

The above factors assume that proper technique is being maintained. If this is not the case, no amount of specific work will overcome this problem. Drop the weight and concentrate on improving skill, which is far more important than training the ego, and less likely to lead to injury.

Safety is the key issue when squatting, or performing any lift. With a few simple precautions, practically anyone may learn to squat, and do so quite effectively. The rewards are well worth the effort. Squat heavy, squat often, and above all, squat safely.

Squat Theory and Execution

Basic Periodized Program:
Week One: Squat 50% 1rm, three sets, 10 reps.

Week Two: Squat 55% 1rm, three sets, 10 reps.

Week Three: Squat 60% 1rm, three sets, 8 reps.

Week Four: Squat 65% 1 rm, three sets, 8 reps.

Week Five: Squat 70% 1 rm, three sets, 8 reps.

Week Six: Squat 75% 1 rm, three sets, 5 reps.

Week Seven: Squat 80% 1rm, three sets, 5 reps.

Week Eight: Squat 85% 1rm, three sets, 3 reps.

Week Nine: Squat 90% 1rm, three sets, 3 reps.

Week Ten: Squat 95% 1 rm, three sets, 2 reps.

Week Eleven: Squat 100% 1rm, three sets, 1 rep.

Week Twelve: Squat 105% of previous 1 repetition maximum for one repetition.

Basic Conjugate Training Program:
Each workout is performed once a week for a three week microcycle.

Day One: Maximal Acceleration:

Box squat: 10 sets, 2 reps, 50% 1rm.

Box squat: 2 sets, 2 reps, 60% 1rm.
Arched Back Good Mornings: 3 sets, 5 reps.

Reverse Hyper Extensions: 3 sets, 8 reps.

Russian Twist: 3 sets, 10 reps.

Seated Calf Raise: 3 sets, 15 reps.

Day Two: Maximal Effort, performed 72 hours later:
Front Squat from low box: 1rm.
Glute-Ham Raise: 3 sets, 5 reps.
Reverse Hyper Extensions: 3 sets, 10 reps.
Weighted Sit Ups: 3 sets, 8 reps.
Calf Raise: 3 sets: 10 reps.

Repeat for three weeks (total) and then switch to:
Day One:
Box Squat: 10 sets, 2 reps, 55% 1rm.
Box Squat: 2 sets, 2 reps, 65% of 1rm.
Pull Throughs: 3 sets, 12 reps.
Reverse Hyper Extensions: 3 sets, 6 reps.
Hanging Leg Raise: 4 sets, 12 reps.
Donkey Calf Raise: 3 sets, 8 reps.

Day Two:
Sumo Deadlift with plates 6” off floor (lower by 2” each week for the next two weeks): 1rm
Split Squat: 3 sets, 5 reps.
Reverse Hyper Extensions: 3 sets, 10 reps.
Weighted Side Bend: 3 sets, 10 reps.
Calf Press: 3 sets, 10 reps.

After three weeks, again rotate exercises.

Appendix C: Partial List of Maximal Effort Exercises

Squatting Exercises:
Low Box Squat
High Box Squat
(either lift may be performed with one of the following:
Buffalo Bar
Manta Ray
Cambered Squat Bar)
Saftey Squat Bar)
Chains or bands may be added.
Low Box Front Squat (modified as above)
Good Morning Squat
Overhead Squat(may be performed off a box, with a variety of stances.
Zercher Squat

Pulling Exercises:
Conventional Deadlift
Sumo Deadlift
(either lift may be performed from a variety of pin heights in the power rack)
Deadlift from platform
Zercher Deadlift
Trap Bar Deadlift
Clean Pulls
Snatch Pulls
Snatch Grip Deadlift (may be done from various heights)

Good Mornings:
Arched Back
Round Back (Only for advanced lifters. If you are not sure, you are not advanced.)
Seated
Good mornings on floor with legs outstretched
(all may be modified as per the squat)
Good mornings can also be performed to various pin heights in the power rack.

Appendix D: Partial List of Assistance Exercises

Exercises for the lower back and hamstrings:
Good Mornings(see Appendix C)
Glute Ham Raise
High Repetition Deadlifts (done with glutes pushed to the rear, only lowered to just below knee level)
Reverse Hyper Extensions
Pull Throughs

Exercises for the hamstrings:
Manual Hamstring Curl
Leg Curls (this is the least effective of the entire list)

Exercises for the Hip Flexors:
Kneeling Squats
Ultra-Wide Sumo Deadlifts
Overhead Squats done to a low box with a sumo stance
Spread Eagle Sit Ups
Heavy Step Ups

Exercises for the Abdominals:
Weighted Sit Ups
Medicine Ball Throws on decline board
Standing Ab Pulldowns
Ab Bench
Hanging Leg Raise

Exercises for the Obliques:
Russian Twist
Weighted Side Bends
Atlas Twist
Weighted Sit Ups on decline board with twist

Exercises for the Quads:
Belt Squats
Split Squats
Front Squats"

Quote:

Originally Posted by justin2305

u might wanna do what i do and just stick to leg press and smith mach. squats,

PFFFFFF

thats a long read. thanks that'll help, i guess ill have to switch it up so back and legs arent next to each other anymore.

xfade7

Quote:

Originally Posted by justin2305

u might wanna do what i do and just stick to leg press and smith mach. squats, they both feel good im not a big squat fan either so i stick to those two their bassically working the same muscle group anyways esspesially smith mach. squats

Forget about smith machine for squats. The movement is really not natural and not good for your body. This can lead to severe injuries.

xfade7, try to have someone knowledgeful teach you the right way to squat.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReX357

Forget about smith machine for squats. The movement is really not natural and not good for your body. This can lead to severe injuries.

xfade7, try to have someone knowledgeful teach you the right way to squat.

"knowledfeful" and what are u trying to say???

Quote:

Originally Posted by justin2305

"knowledfeful" and what are u trying to say???

Maybe he's suggesting that he learned squats the wrong way (thats why it hurts) and it would be beneficial to have a trainer show the correct way to do them.

What I'm trying to say is that squatting is not an easy move to teach over the net. Next, considering the way the bar travels on a smith machine, it is rough on your lower back if I remember right.

I'm searching for an article right now that was explaining the problems with smith machine squatting. If I find it, I'll post it.

Two things to bear in mind:

1. Form is everything. Bad form will lead to the movement feeling like ****, injuries, complaints, lack of motivation etc. Leave the ego at home and start with just the bar if you have to.
2. As a bodybuilder once told me, these words are the cornerstone to understanding squats: "squats are NOT A COMFORTABLE EXERCISE". If they feel comfortable you aren't doing something right :)

X

Quote:

Originally Posted by AandF6969

Maybe he's suggesting that he learned squats the wrong way (thats why it hurts) and it would be beneficial to have a trainer show the correct way to do them.

This is REALLY good advice. Find a bro or pay a trainer to show you how to do squat correctly.

You will never get to the next stage without a powerful squat. Millions of posts on this subject. Squats mean testosterone, testosterone means growth.

Yes getting someone to help is always a good thing but keep in mind 3/4 of the trainers out there don't know the proper machanics of squats or deadlifts for that matter. If you're looking for someone to learn from then you need to be in a gym where people actually squat and deadlift.....something I haven't seen much at a Bally's. Second, you need to read up on the subject.....the post I made above is a long one but hits on everything I've read that others have to say as well. Phreezer just did a better job of putting it all together. Third you need to pinpoint your goals...are you wanting to powerlift or bodybuild.....both are totally different ways of lifting. Last but certainly not least you HAVE to start off slow and with managable weight. Both of these exercises are not ones you just run up too, bang out, and walk away. You'll get what you put into it........you do it half-assed then you'll likely injure yourself and get very little out of it........take your time and do it right and you'll be amazed at the results.

also, I like belts and I hasppen to think they assist the lifter.....however, I use them when my sets get into the heavy weights, for the lighter lifts I'm sans belt.

In all honesty I don't find a belt helps that much.. I would suggest swoles routine since it allows you to use lower weight yet still blast your legs! Using the lighter weight also allows your to hit proper form! I like to take a deep breath and hold it until I am at the bottom of the squat, I find that this fills my rib cage and offers support! I had a lot of problems with dipping down at the lower portion of a squat, and this hurt my lower back and I still do it a bit when going heavy. I have found that working on my breathing has helped along with looking up!! But don't give up, your lower body teachs your upper body to grow

Quote:

Originally Posted by needmorestrength

In all honesty I don't find a belt helps that much.. I would suggest swoles routine since it allows you to use lower weight yet still blast your legs! Using the lighter weight also allows your to hit proper form! I like to take a deep breath and hold it until I am at the bottom of the squat, I find that this fills my rib cage and offers support! I had a lot of problems with dipping down at the lower portion of a squat, and this hurt my lower back and I still do it a bit when going heavy. I have found that working on my breathing has helped along with looking up!! But don't give up, your lower body teachs your upper body to grow

I've stopped looking up while doing squats....it always felt unatural to me for some reason and it didn't ever feel right at the bottom of the squat.....I basically keep looking forward and not let my chin drop....I like this a lot more.

I don't think a belt is really needed by someone starting out doing squats for the first time. Build up stabalizer muscles first and then when the weight approches dangerous levels I feel a belt is worth wearing. I'm not strapping one on while lifting 220-275 pounds but once I get to my maximum lifting poundages (320-420) I like to have a belt on to assist my abs. I keep my abs tight as I can but I feel better having a belt on just in case....keep in mind I'm a litle older than most of you bros.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juggernaut

I've stopped looking up while doing squats....it always felt unatural to me for some reason and it didn't ever feel right at the bottom of the squat.....I basically keep looking forward and not let my chin drop....I like this a lot more.

I don't think a belt is really needed by someone starting out doing squats for the first time. Build up stabalizer muscles first and then when the weight approches dangerous levels I feel a belt is worth wearing. I'm not strapping one on while lifting 220-275 pounds but once I get to my maximum lifting poundages (320-420) I like to have a belt on to assist my abs. I keep my abs tight as I can but I feel better having a belt on just in case....keep in mind I'm a litle older than most of you bros.

I do agree when lifting maximum lifts to wear a belt.. haha and yes your an old fart :wg:

Quote:

Originally Posted by needmorestrength

I do agree when lifting maximum lifts to wear a belt.. haha and yes your an old fart :wg:

I'm pushing pins into my needmorestrength voodoo doll this very instant......feel anything like a sharpe pain in the back of your neck? ahahahah

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juggernaut

I'm pushing pins into my needmorestrength voodoo doll this very instant......feel anything like a sharpe pain in the back of your neck? ahahahah

Oh god stop... are you putting them in the elbow region by any chance :eek:

Quote:

Originally Posted by AandF6969

Maybe he's suggesting that he learned squats the wrong way (thats why it hurts) and it would be beneficial to have a trainer show the correct way to do them.

ive played football my whole life im prety sure i no the right way to squat i was saying that i didnt like it that much it feels bad on my knees so IMO i like smiths and presses better thats all i was refering to not saying they were a better movement or anything its just what i do

Quote:

Originally Posted by justin2305

ive played football my whole life im prety sure i no the right way to squat i was saying that i didnt like it that much it feels bad on my knees so IMO i like smiths and presses better thats all i was refering to not saying they were a better movement or anything its just what i do

Not trying to be a smartass justin, but doing something for a long time doesn't always mean it's been done correctly. But you are probably right that you do do them correctly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juggernaut

I'm pushing pins into my needmorestrength voodoo doll this very instant......feel anything like a sharpe pain in the back of your neck? ahahahah

Hmmm Juggy this is not funny....but you have nooo Idea how much my neck hurts.. like not joking at all

Quote:

Originally Posted by needmorestrength

Hmmm Juggy this is not funny....but you have nooo Idea how much my neck hurts.. like not joking at all

Sorry to hear that bro.......throw some ice on it.......I'll lay off the voodoo doll now, you've learned not to mess with the Juggernaut now. hahahahaha

Good stuff on here. I'm not a squat expert, but the things I try to keep in mind are the basics. Form is everything. Sometimes I start off warming up with just the bar to make sure my range of motion is correct and I'm "feeling" the movement, feeling the muscles and joints work correctly, and mentally going through what I'm about to do. Be sure to read the before-mentioned book posted by Juggernaut, because there are some good technical points in there. As far as routines, they are helpful as well. Don't neglect squats just because they don't feel good. I'm a near 600 lb. squatter, and I have not even begun to explore my potential in the squat area. I'm sure after my first cycle my squats will go up 50-100lb quickly. I'm lucky, I'm 5'11" with a stocky build, so I can handle heavier weights. But I still never, never neglect proper form.

I heard a guy say it this way once...

The largest muscles in the body are located in the legs, right? If you work your legs hard, it will stimulate the rest of your body's growth. Not only that, you will burn more calories during a proper leg workout and get your heart rate going at an incredible rate (if you push as hard as I do), and give yourself the proper foundation for building everything that is above the waist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juggernaut

Sorry to hear that bro.......throw some ice on it.......I'll lay off the voodoo doll now, you've learned not to mess with the Juggernaut now. hahahahaha

Hahaha ok ok your not old :wg:

don't do legs the day after back day, do legs after chest day, or at least 2 days after your back day

you need the spinae erector muscles, and others in your back to be fresh in order to support yourself in the squat or else you could get hurt

Quote:

Originally Posted by justin2305

"knowledfeful" and what are u trying to say???

he is saying your a pussy thats affraid to squat.

quit bumping old threads newb