Trying to get huge shoulders

[eradikate]

I've been working on my shoulders really hard but they ain't growing so much...can anyone give me some ideas on how to blast your shoulders??

[DevilsDeity]

military presses , dumbell presses, upright rows

5 sets the 1st set is just a warmup the next 4 sets

4-6 reps strict form , its easy to hurt your shoulders

throw some shrugs in there to balance the mix hehehe

you dont want big shoulders and little traps

i like doing shoulders on leg days

[Darkknight442]

yo man,

My name is Jay

I dunno how you do your sholder work outs but I do 3 or 4 sets of 10. I do dumbel presses... Forwards and lateral raises. T rows and Shrugs fro the traps. And as a last excerseise. Take like 2 3 or 2 pound wieghts and so some shadow boxing. You knwo throw some punches and stuff. Those will round out the shoulders. Try those excersises. Sets of ten. Try and increse the wieght each time. And do dumbel shrugs

[superbeast]

What are you doing now and what do you want to get your shoulders to look like?

[Johnny Italia]

I'm not a body builder, but if you've tried everything and have not seen results, then you need something different. While not many people love it, Mike Mentzer's heavy duty training does work very, very, very well for some people. He has a book out. I don't know what it's called but you can probably find it on the web. Basically you eat an enormous amount of food, and lift 1 time per week. On that 1 day, you only do 2 exercises. 1 set of each, to failure. That means keep going until you simply can't lift anymore, not giving up because you're tired. I did use his system without any juice, and gained a lot of weight in a 6 month period. My squats and deadlifts went through the roof. I disliked gaining weight in my midsection though, so I stopped. Mike told me that all bodybuilders get a gut when they're bulking up. If that's true, then his system worked for me, I got bigger and much stronger by lifting less. Anyway, you might want to try that.

[TOM2502002]

just dont ever do any behing the head shoulder presses. they will screw up your shoulders in no time. star with heavy dumbell presses.

[superbeast]

Originally posted by TOM2502002
just dont ever do any behing the head shoulder presses. they will screw up your shoulders in no time. star with heavy dumbell presses.

Bullsh*t!

That is the best exercise there is for building shoulder mass. If you do it with correct form and control the weight, you won't have any injury problems.

[ironmike7000]

Try doing shoulders on a day all by themselves that way you can put all your effort into them. Stick to heavy overhead presses with a barbell or dumbells. Keep your reps in the 4-8 range.

[NightOp]

Originally posted by Diesel


Couldn't have said it better myself SB.

ok guys, i gotta somewhat disagree with yall here.. I think it is a potentially damaging exercise (even when done correctly) in the long term... however the frequency, weight used, and individual variables could mean that you will be fine for quite some time... just my opinion, not flaming, i love you guys (in a not gay way)

on a side note in regard to the question that this thread asked... if after changing your routine/training you still aren't growing, i would think it is either diet or sleep related..just a thought.

[lethalppl]

today was shoulders day i did miltary press (10,10,2,2,2 (warm up) as many as i can do very heavy ussually 2 to 3, 5, 8,10. shrugs,shoulder press/dumbbell (do not know exact name), straight arms lift (sides, front), T rows

[lethalppl]

ohh ya lateral raises. forgot that one

[BOUNCER]

Night ops has it right, and sounds like the voice of experience here. I used behind the neck presses for years and now suffer with rotator cuff injuries to both shoulders.
My shoulder routine starts with military presses for 5 sets, and from there my routine changes at almost every work out depending on time and just how I want to look. Without doubt upright rows work, as do side laterals done properly.
I hit only 2 sets of shrugs on shoulder day as I also hit them with afew on back day. Also you can leave your rear delts untill back day too.

Bouncer

[superbeast]

Bouncer & NightOps:

Sorry guys, I totally disagree. I've had rotator cuff probs in the past and have talked to some big time surgeon's as Pitt Sports Medicine is one of the best programs in the U.S. They treat a ton of pro athletes. They say that if done correctly this exercise won't hurt you. I haven't had a problem in years and I do barbell behind the neck presses once a week, heavy. And I mean heavy, 245 for 3 sets of 10.

[Jenna]

Originally posted by superbeast
I haven't had a problem in years and I do barbell behind the neck presses once a week, heavy. And I mean heavy, 245 for 3 sets of 10.

I, as well, do barbell behind the neck presses (of course with not that much weight...lol) I only hit 85lbs. - BUT I LOVE the burn that I get with them and the pump. I sure hope they're not bad for me because I don't see myself ever stopping that exercise.

I've been doing them for years as well, I have never had any discomfort in my shoulders.

[silverfox]

Well i agree if your form is perfect behind the head work in fine, however who can honestly say at end of heavy set from time to time their form my get a bit "off" it happens and for me not worthth rick, doing them infront is just as good. You may try standing military presses, arnold presses, and do lots of side laterals as a bit cap will make your shoulders appear wider. Also pick a day and only train shoulders, good way to bring up weak body part.

[NightOp]

yes, i too agree that it is a great exercise in regard to growth, however I still think it is potentially damaging in the long run... yet, im sure that some can get away with it, just like some people can smoke two packs a day and live to be 90 while others begin having health problems after 5 or 10 years of smoking.... regardless of who is right, I'd rather not risk it

on a side note> SuperBeast did cite a source for his opinion on this which I did not... I have no study to quote, my opinion on this is simply from experience, talking to people, and reading... but who knows.

[bex]

Shoulder Training



As bodybuilders we are all pursuing the ‘perfect’ body which means fulfilling our full potential. The concept of a perfect body can mean different things to different people. For example some bodybuilders, both male and female prefer the ‘bigger is better’ trend and therefore model their physiques on the ‘mass monsters’ of their generation. Whereas others prefer the streamline aesthetic look pioneered by 3 time Mr Olympia Frank Zane which is again becoming more popular. These outlooks can differ greatly, in terms of training and eating habits. However, one aspect of bodybuilding has never attracted considerable debate, this is of course shoulder training or deltoid training. It is almost universally agreed that the building of broad, thick well balanced deltoids is paramount in constructing the perfect physique whatever your goals.

Shoulders maketh the man, or women for that matter. It is true that the shoulders/deltoids have the ability to improve a physique markedly; for example from the front/back they add width to the physique which in turn creates a more dramatic ‘V-taper’ which gives the illusion of a thinner, tighter waist-line. >From the side good deltoid development adds a tremendous amount of thickness to the upper body, whereas from the back, well developed rear deltoids can make a massive difference to a rear double bicep pose or rear lat spread. The shoulders are probably the most masculine of all muscle groups which is why I am writing this article so you can get straight down to the hard work in the gym.

The training of the deltoids varies considerable from individual to individual, as some things work better for some than others. Some people split the muscles in the shoulders up into two separate workouts, pairing them with other muscles (usually the chest or back). Some people prefer to train the whole shoulder area, again with back or chest work usually featuring. It is even been known for some of the genetically gifted to eliminate direct shoulder work entirely from their workouts as they play a secondary role in the contractions of many other muscles. Although I would argue that if your shoulders are a lagging body part then the best way to train these muscles is alone and all in one session. This allows you to focus your full energy and concentration on developing your shoulders. It is for these reasons that I choose to go into greater detail into this type of session.

Before we start, it makes perfect sense to identify the major muscles of the shoulder girdle that we choose to isolate and breakdown. In this case we are concerned with the posterior deltoid (front part of shoulder), medial head of the deltoid (side of shoulder) and finally the anterior deltoid (the rear of the shoulder). Note that I haven’t included the trapezius (traps) muscles in this workout. This is because effective back training including up-right rows and shrugs tends to bring the best out of these muscles. Nevertheless the nature of ‘pressing’ movements will ensure adequate stress is placed on the trapezius muscles. Your session should be kept relatively short, simple and straightforward, ideally lasting no more than 45mins with the use of no more than 12 working sets. Strict attention to intensity and proper technique should always take precedent over silly poundage’s that can only be managed in a dangerous and sloppy manner.

You also have to consider the order in which you want to train these muscles. It is important to keep this constantly rotating as not to allow the muscles to become too familiar with the stimuli. However, it has to be said that the backbone of any good mass building shoulder workout would be the involvement of ‘heavy’ compound pressing movements. These are usually performed first in the workout when your levels of energy and concentration are at there highest. Although it would be wise to include pre- exhaust principle every 4-5th session. In this case you would begin the workout training a smaller muscle group (usually the most lagging one) such as the rear/anterior deltoid to help balance out the proportions and to give the shoulders as a whole a more pleasing appearance.

We will now take the previous example of training the bigger more powerful front/posterior deltoid first, as this is going to be the most frequent agenda. It is universally agreed that the best exercises for this part of the shoulder are the pressing movements. These exercises lend themselves to a variety of versions. Personally it is my preference to choose a seated position with a 90-degree back support, choosing to press the free weights (barbells/dumbbells). The free weights allow for a greater, more natural range of movement, but this is only my opinion. But these pressing actions also call upon ancillary (muscles that act as stabilisers to the movement). Which in turn help to pack on more mass in and around the shoulder area. Although this does not mean that I do not alternate between machines (Smith machine) as well as a standing position. This again helps shock the muscle by ‘tricking’ the front deltoids into new growth. Try 4-5 working sets progressing in weight, whilst reducing the amount of reps from 12 to 6. It is important for you to be reaching positive failure (where you can no longer lift the weight with perfect technique) on the last rep or two on each working set. This principle applies to all of these shoulder movements.

If done correctly you will find this quite energy taxing, as they are compound, multi-muscle movements requiring effort from the front deltoid, traps and triceps. On completion you then need to turn your attention to the medial head of the deltoid, or the side of the shoulder. Free weights in this instance are again in my opinion the best option, as the side laterals are the only exercise to directly stress this muscle. Again contemplate doing 4-5 working sets to positive failure. Attention to strict form is crucial in this exercise, as the success of the movement is almost entirely dependent on strict form. This means bringing the weights up from the hips with elbows slightly bent. This should be the focus of the exercise with no other movement from the rest of the body. To squeeze a little extra blood into the side deltoids it is a good idea to raise the weights whilst slightly rotating the hand so that the little finger is higher than the thumb. As this is best done with free weights with dumbbells it lends itself to the variety of intensity techniques that are available to you. This can help shock the muscles into new areas of growth and development.

The final muscles to be stressed are the rear deltoids if this strategy of shoulder training is to be adopted. The most natural and effective exercise in this case is the bent over rear lateral flyes. This is a simple movement in the same mould of the side laterals, although done in a bent over fashion. Although an excellent alternative is the reverse cable crossovers. This is slightly more difficult so make sure an instructor is at hand to monitor your form. However when mastered is a real asset to your knowledge. As with the other parts of the shoulder a good 4 working sets should suffice.

Pay close attention to every set and rep and try to make them of the highest quality possible. This routine will saturate the entire shoulder girdle with a great deal of blood. The ‘pump’ that this will create if completed correctly will truly open your eyes and give you an invaluable reference for further deltoid training. On a final note I cannot stress the importance of eating and sleeping correctly if your potential is to be realised.

[superbeast]

Originally posted by eye_candy
doing them infront is just as good

I have to disagree here also. Shoulder press to the front places most of the stress on the front delts and even the upper pecs. Behind the neck presses distribute the stress better over all of the shoulder muscles.

[lethalppl]

i do the miltary from the back. i tried from front just seem that did not do as good job on working my shoulders. work my chest more it seemed

[NightOp]

good info as usual bexsome....

about the bar in front or back debate... i use front for military press and in order to more work the shoulders rather than the chest, I keep my butt back against the 90 degree bench and my body as perpendicular to the ground as possible, i even hold the bar directly over my head at the peak of the lift... yes i can feel it in my chest and yes behind the head will most likely yield slightly better results in terms of development... but like i said before I don't want to risk long term damage...

[Mike]

I LOVE behind the neck shoulder presses though I won't take it all the way down to the base of my neck, just behind the head. It's a GREAT exercise but it IS very easy for someone who doesnt know proper form, to hurt themselves doing this. BUT if they do it is more than likely just that they have gone too far below 90 degrees with a weight that isn't proportional to their strength in that area.

BUT I will say this....as far as the BEST shoulder exercise....put my vote in for HEAVY upright rows, followed up by lateral raises

[eradikate]

i almost hurt my self doing behind the back but it seems to work pretty well. I heard a big crack on my spine and i thought something was going to break off but luckily it didn't. I'll try all those thigns you guys listed for me. Thanx alot bros!!

[Lardyass]

This is obviously not the consensus of the board but i have to say that i struggle with behind neck press with a heavey weight. I feel alot of discomfort in my rotator cuff's and cannot lift a lot of weight without pain(long lasting).

I find seated dumbell shoulder press much more agreeable and a better mass builder if done after a pre-exhust sets of side laterials. IMO

It works for me!

[bigkev]

i dont do behind the neck presses at all. it just puts to much stress on the rotator cuffs. you may get away with it for a long time but sooner or later it will catch up with you. i do my shoulder presses in the front, and on the smith machine. or, the hammer strength shoulder press is ok to. but, the smith machine has kept me injury free and growing since i started useing it.

[BOUNCER]

Originally posted by superbeast
Bouncer & NightOps:

Sorry guys, I totally disagree. I've had rotator cuff probs in the past and have talked to some big time surgeon's as Pitt Sports Medicine is one of the best programs in the U.S. They treat a ton of pro athletes. They say that if done correctly this exercise won't hurt you. I haven't had a problem in years and I do barbell behind the neck presses once a week, heavy. And I mean heavy, 245 for 3 sets of 10.

Well where do I start. I can't back up my opinion with the learned expertise of a sport clinic, I can only speak with the advantage of hindsight. As regards you hitting 245lbs, well not to flame you it's not out of this world heavy!, and I'd also wonder why you'd hit your shoulders "heavy" and in another post you hit your legs light when in fact the opposite should be the case.
Personally speaking I enjoy heavy weights and like to hit everything heavy, but shoulders don't need espically heavy movements for good growth.

Most people will find that after many years lifting experince that behind the neck presses will hurt and wear on the joint.

[ironmike7000]

When I was younger I did alot of behind the neck presses. But after 20 years of lifting I too injured my shoulder. Behind the neck presses are a great exercise. But I think if done for a long period of time you have a good chance of injuring yourself. I can do dumbell presses with no pain. I also believe that dumbells work the muscle better due to the fact your balancing each one seperately.

[Jack87]

I agree with you to a point bro.... I did heavy behind the neck presses for years, but it does put your shoulders in a postion for potential injury and after years of making them the cornerstone of my delt workouts my rotator cuffs said "screw you!" I'm not having that shit!

I just replaced the behind the neck presses with seated front barbell presses and now have no more shoulder problems...

I do agree that behind the neck presses hit the delts more directly and will build size faster, but you can injury yourself from over doing them....

Originally posted by superbeast


Bullsh*t!

That is the best exercise there is for building shoulder mass. If you do it with correct form and control the weight, you won't have any injury problems.

[NightOp]

buff, is that your pic in your avatar?

[Jenna]

Originally posted by NightOp
buff, is that your pic in your avatar?

Believe it or not - that's Lee Priest....

[defdaz]

Why do an exercise that is risky when there are plenty of other exercises that will hit the deltoids but in safer fashion? Why risk it?

Think about this - do you your delts know what exercise you are doing? All they know is how much load is on them and how hard they need to contract to do what you want them to do.

def

[eradikate]

hey i did behind the neck presses yesterday and i felt clicks on the back of my neck. it started to scare me alot but it wasn't hurting at all. i have rotary cuff injuries from before so im not going to do them. but i hear from alot of other people that it works great, just don't go too low

[Jack87]

Looks like Jeena beat to the reply....
I wish it was me in my avatar...Be nice to have some guns like little big man.... Lee Priest....

Originally posted by NightOp
buff, is that your pic in your avatar?

[NightOp]

Originally posted by buff87
Looks like Jeena beat to the reply....
I wish it was me in my avatar...Be nice to have some guns like little big man.... Lee Priest....

ya my bad, I know nothing about professional BB's.

[devilscabanaboy19]

I have a bad shoulder myself and am just getting back into working delts. I think that behind the neck presses work good as hell but do leave you in a vulnerable position. Smith machine presses are a little safer but you have to restrict the range of motion. I only go to about ear level and it feels fine. If you go past that you're gonna know an orthopedic surgeon really well....

[eradikate]

yea man my neck started clicking i never do it again i just do db military press

[freakout]

I have very weak shoulders(if I have a scanner I could show you) and I hurt myself before when I was learning my bike...

My way may not be the best but I did show improvement. I do shoulders as a warm up almost three times every week with one time in continuation and I do both front and back presses. However I do not have problems with rotay cuffs but my back and it is very dangerous for both front and back if you are not seated in a balanced position. One common thing about me is I tends to get nervous when I am carrying very heavy stuff and I shook or shiver without control. Therefore it is still very important that when you want to go heavy than you are comfortable with, get someone to look over your posture.

Do not break your back or hurt your spine and do not jerk especially when no one is there to look at you.

I am now in a plateau. I am supposed to go heavy but due to my nervous system, I need a buddy if I want to do so....sigh