Stop training to failure?

I read this article, http://www.cbass.com/KevinDye.htm. Maybe some of you want to check this out, its quite interesting.

It basically says that your body gets tired of adapting constantly to failure and that stopping 2 reps short will allow quicker muscle recovery. I'm willing to believe this Kevin Dye dude who has been lifting for 21 years. I've also read other scientific research which backs him up.

I've decided to stop 2 short from failure now on and see if my gains improve, because they have been stalling for a few months. I'm starting to come round to the idea that I don't need to feel trashed after a workout and a sore as if I had been hit by the polar express.

If you ache less from not going to failure, you can fit more workouts in and get more growth cycles whilst not overtaxing your CNS. I believe its possible that the CNS may become adapted to training to failure and will not improve motor innervation as a result. This lack of CNS improvement could cause lack of strength gains, and therefore size.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

WSB also advocates that in some cases - aids in allowing them to train the same muscle E4D...

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Originally Posted by Flexor

I read this article, http://www.cbass.com/KevinDye.htm. Maybe some of you want to check this out, its quite interesting.

It basically says that your body gets tired of adapting constantly to failure and that stopping 2 reps short will allow quicker muscle recovery. I'm willing to believe this Kevin Dye dude who has been lifting for 21 years. I've also read other scientific research which backs him up.

I've decided to stop 2 short from failure now on and see if my gains improve, because they have been stalling for a few months. I'm starting to come round to the idea that I don't need to feel trashed after a workout and a sore as if I had been hit by the polar express.

If you ache less from not going to failure, you can fit more workouts in and get more growth cycles whilst not overtaxing your CNS. I believe its possible that the CNS may become adapted to training to failure and will not improve motor innervation as a result. This lack of CNS improvement could cause lack of strength gains, and therefore size.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

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Good post….. I’m way ahead of you bro…. I haven’t trained to failure in about 8 weeks I only hit failure 1-2 weeks in any training 12 week cycle..

this is why.... IMO.... from (my program)

Muscle Failure
To get the best out of this routine you must prolong muscle failure as long as you can the sooner you fail the sooner your cycle will end. don’t get carried away with adding 5- 10kg every time you train, if you barely managed six reps with the 30s on shoulder press, what are you going to do next week, slap on another 5kg aside I don’t think so. Hitting muscle failure means no thither growth because you cannot give the body the new stimulus it needs for growth over the coming weeks, don’t get me wrong this is the best but also the hardest routine I’ve ever tried, when your dead lifting during loading trying to beet 110kg for fifteen that you did last week its not easy.
Training hard or harder than hard is all that will do in terms of muscle growth, it must be done. Just make sure you get the right reps in the right phases no more than 8 in growth and no les than 12-14 while loading.

well thats my view....Helps avoid injury to...

bump...

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Originally Posted by S.P.G

bump...

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yeh bro, lets spread the gospel

:lol:

I read your program, I'm thinking of trying it out once I've done a few other things. The exercises you suggest are all the ones I already do (because they are the best) so the changeover will be more about technique and principle.

i like to switch it up, when im doing my heavy sets(about 4 weeks) trying to max out n that kinda stuf i go to failure, then when i rasie the reps alitle and go lighter i dont go to absolute failure, it seems to work

How do you know when you are two reps away from failure?

Failure hits very, very differently in different exercises. Take flat bench and incline bench. On flat, you are using a massive quanity of auxillary muscles and thus, can almost always eek out the last rep and rack the bar. On incline, however, you cannot call upon any supporting muscles to help you get the bar back to the rack, so if you fail, well, you fail.

Failure for me means that I cannot more the weight cleanly in the proper trajectory.

I agree that the goal is to do the maximum amount of work (weight/time), so if you are pushing yourself to "failure" meaning you can't lift anymore even with a long interval (2-3 minutes), then what you are doing is sub-optimal.

The goal, regardless of "failure" or "not to failure" is to move the most weight that you can, using good form, in the time alloted.

It really is that simple.

Maybe you can't judge where you are in relation to failure, but I can. I feel its pretty obvious when I've only got a couple of reps to go.

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Originally Posted by Flexor

Maybe you can't judge where you are in relation to failure, but I can. I feel its pretty obvious when I've only got a couple of reps to go.

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I agree…

for me its also not about hitting failure, I sometimes feel i could of done 2 or more reps but as long as you progress from the previous week it doesn’t really matter, your still giving your body the new stimulation for growth that it needs to grow, it just makes sense to me, why train to failure every week giving you body and CNS such a hard time?? hitting it 100% each session is IMO a easy way to go about overtraining without even knowing it...

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Originally Posted by S.P.G

I agree…

for me its also not about hitting failure, I sometimes feel i could of done 2 or more reps but as long as you progress from the previous week it doesn’t really matter, your still giving your body the new stimulation for growth that it needs to grow, it just makes sense to me, why train to failure every week giving you body and CNS such a hard time?? hitting it 100% each session is IMO a easy way to go about overtraining without even knowing it...

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Exactly, for example today I was doing underhand rows having increased by 2kg from 1 week ago, and I managed 10 reps as before but with the higher weight so I called it a day there even though I could have done more. I had improved markedly and I didn't want to push it. Next time I will up the weight a further 2kg and try to make 10 again.

I think its true that all you need to do is improve you don't need to slap on 5kgs each time, like you said in your program I think it was.

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Originally Posted by Flexor

Exactly, for example today I was doing underhand rows having increased by 2kg from 1 week ago, and I managed 10 reps as before but with the higher weight so I called it a day there even though I could have done more. I had improved markedly and I didn't want to push it. Next time I will up the weight a further 2kg and try to make 10 again.

I think its true that all you need to do is improve you don't need to slap on 5kgs each time, like you said in your program I think it was.

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Dammm flexor,, sometimes I think you just read my mind…lol that’s what I’m talking about right there….spot on dude..

Nowdays I only take one or 2 sets each workout to failure(doing a routine based somewhat on wsb so I always fail during ME work). Even though I got off cycle 6 weeks ago and is eating like crap I still seem to gain strenght.

Failure training seems to have gotten stuck in the bodybuilding mentality. Probably think non failure training is lasy, but doing 10 sets of 3 in the deadlift with 80% of max sure as hell aint easy even if not going to failure :lift:

Wasnt it Bill Pearl that said "Training to failure teaches your body to fail" or something like that :)

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Originally Posted by johan

Failure training seems to have gotten stuck in the bodybuilding mentality. Probably think non failure training is lasy

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Agreed.... its about training smart as well as hard.

You are gonna constantly hear different programs and how they are "the one" and all it basically comes down to, if you wanna make progress, is to try it, keep track of everything, and if you arent making progress within a reasonable amount of time something needs to change. People can try to convince you all day but, yer gonna have to see for yourself to be able to judge any program.

IMO