Behind the neck presses?

[ollie1]

Does anyone do behind the neck military presses anymore? In addition to that anyone do behind the neck pulldowns? A guy in the gym and I were discussing this and he stated that they (behind the neck motions) are a must which I inturn told him he is full of ***t. I glanced at a post here not to long ago and I believe people are getting away from that motion due to rotator cuff probs. But you never know!!

[chinups]

I still do it because it just been done since the beginning of lifting and ppl like arnold had success with it. I do it sometimes not often and very very light. Never heavy EVER

[WHOADY4SHOADY]

I wouldnt do it, just out of fear of injury, and if you really think about it, it is not a natural movement for the human body/shoulder joint. It really also depends on the angle your at. If you make sure you are right under the bar or actually past the bar slightly in regards to the weight stack, you might be ok. Another words, your back shoud be close to the weight stack, and you need to band your neck slightly into your chest. This is what I was told by my power lifter friend. Hes been doing it for years. If none of this makes any sense to you just ignore me, LOL.

[millersir7]

My physical therapist told me to NEVER do any motion like that. But i also have torn my right rotator cuff before...

[n4529359]

behind the neck press is very bad for the shoulder girdle.
the position your shoulder is in ( abduction, external rotation) not good because of there is no independent muscles ,ligaments or tendons to support the posterior of the shoulder. this put to much stress on the glenoid labrum (which is like a calimari ring between the scapula and the head of the humerus) .

sure u can do them but after a few years it degrades the labrum and then your shoulders just screwed . because there no muscles to strengthen at the rear, you have this labrum (and rotator cuff supports) which is not designed to get stronger so it gets looser and u'll have a loose shoulder joint.

if that makes sense

[singern]

They say people should learn from mistakes, I have been sidelined by shoulder injury once. It wont happen again, I love this sport too much to take such a risk.

Was that over the top?


.

[primetime1]

i threw this in my work out last night, it was the 1st time ive done them since prolly hs, however i did not do them as i did back then, i brought the bar to the top of the back of my head, being this brings your arm in the lowered posistion parallel tothe floor and then back up, i did not feel pain as i did these but i do feel its stimulated something because today i can feel alil sorness in the shoulder area. i think im goin to continue to add these in my work outs possibly every few weeks to switch things up a bit.
if done properly, and i mean not over extending your shoulders i dont for see there being many problems. i think many problems stem from ppl goin to deep into the press (i usta do this back in the day) and hyperextending their shoulders causing pain and possible injury. also i would not train as heavy with this motion

[Kale]

worst excercises anybody can do IMO, nothing but trouble in the long run.

[primetime1]

kale: you dont think that by doing this press properly, with out hyperextension of the shoulder that one could benifit from it, the old schoolers would do this and it seemed to work for them.. just curious as to if theres any proof of doin this properly would cause long term damage

[novastepp]

it was my thread, and it is bad news bears...

[Kale]

This is a interview with Jimmy Owens

-- Jimmy Owens

During my tenure with the Redskins I received some negative information regarding exercises performed behind the neck, specifically the lat pull-down and the seated press. These were exercises we incorporated into most of our upper body Redskins routines.

I gathered as much information as I could find and then met with our medical staff. Everyone agreed that these exercises can cause structural damage to the rotator cuff and should be removed immediately from the program. The damage is accumulative over time. I posted this information for our players to read and apologized for my lack of awareness.

In their book “The 7-Minute Rotator Cuff Solution” Horrigan and Robinson explain the accumulative negative impact that can result from performing the following three exercises; seated press behind-the-neck, behind-the-neck pull-down, and upright row.

Performing the overhead press behind-the-neck and the pull-down behind-the-neck requires significant external rotation of your shoulders and full scapular adduction. You reach this position by pulling your shoulders backward similar to a soldier standing at the position of attention.

Horrigan and Robinson state, “Your external rotators have to work really hard, pulling against the tight internal rotators, just to get you in position for the exercise. This strain, plus the strain of having to work against the resistance imposed by the weight, is too much to ask of the rotator cuff – over time, it may strain, inflame, become fibrous, and weaken.”

How many shoulder injuries have already occurred on the playing field that might be traced to the gradual soft tissue and joint deterioration that is accumulative from performing the press and pull down behind-the-neck? I do not know, however I am not willing to jeopardize the short-term health of our players.

How many athletes after their playing days are long over, begin to experience shoulder problems that may be directly attributed to the strength training exercises they performed when they were younger? Again I do not know the answer, but I am not willing to jeopardize the long-term health of our players.

After eliminating the behind-the-neck exercises from our program, I contacted our equipment manufacturers to discuss the modification of our overhead pressing equipment. Eventually this was accomplished.

In our facility the Texans have a variety of overhead pressing movements to choose from. Each of our overhead pressing movements is designed to perform the exercise in front of the body. Observe Seth demonstrating the Avenger Seated Press (1 | 2) and the Hammer Isolateral Seated Press (1 | 2).

In the past our players performed the overhead seated press with dumbbell at a ninety degree angle. Our players currently perform this exercise at less than ninety degrees.

We have a variety of lat pull-down machines for our players to choose from. Depending upon the equipment used, our players perform all lat pull-down exercises in front of the body using one of the following grips; underhand grip, overhand grip, parallel grip (1 | 2).

There is no advantage for performing the seated press, or the lat pull-down, behind the head (1 | 2). The potential risk of the structural integrity of the shoulder capsule far outweighs any advantage for performing either of these two behind-the-neck exercises. A disadvantage of the wide grip lat pull-down is a reduction in range of motion for the lats. Range of motion for the lats is increased as the grip is narrowed.

It is the responsibility of all coaches to eliminate any exercise that may compromise the physical well-being of an athlete during his/her playing days. We must be concerned for the well-being of our players when they compete as athletes and also during their adult life as a non-athlete.

While with the Redskins our players also performed the upright row (1 | 2). This exercise was performed in our neck sequence listed below:

1. neck flexion

2. neck extension

3. lateral flexion right

4. lateral flexion left

5. shrugs (followed immediately by the upright row)

6. upright row

The author’s of The 7-Minute Rotator Cuff Solution feel so strongly about the negative impact of the upright row, they post a “Training Alert” regarding this exercise in their book.

They state, “One exercise you should eliminate from your weight training program is the upright row. This exercise places the shoulder in internal rotation as the arm is raised, a position that does not allow sufficient space for the greater tubercle to clear the acromium.”

Proper form requires pulling the elbows high. According to the authors this simply increases the degree of internal rotation and magnifies the danger of impingement. The final word from Corrigan and Robinson regarding the upright row? “Upright rows accelerate rotator cuff degeneration.”

My number one responsibility to our players is injury prevention. I cannot incorporate an exercise(s) that contributes to gradual joint erosion. Our players do not perform the upright row, the behind-the-neck press, or the behind-the-neck pull-down.

Jimmy your concern must not be how you feel today, but how your shoulders will feel as you grow older. You may be doing gradual damage today that results in shoulder problems later in life. I suggest you begin performing all overhead pressing movements in front of the body, all lat pull-downs in front of the body, and eliminate the upright row.

Horrigan, Joseph, Robinson, Jerry, The 7-Minute Rotator Cuff Solution, Health For Life, Los Angeles, California, 1991

[Pinnacle]

. I do it sometimes not often

I also do the exercise once in a blue moon.My problem is that I can't get the ROM anymore.My delts won't allow it.


~Pinnacle~

[primetime1]

kale, thanks for that input bro, thats a good read right there.
like i said earlier also, i dont do thise often, but this week i hit them up and they felt good, most likely becuase i havnt done them in so long but i def feel it hit my medial delt and more real delt so i was happy, and i was sure that i did not goin behind the neck. only alil below the top of the back of my head so that my arms were parallel to the floor, not over extending past this point. to me this felt good, but i def wont be makin a routine of it.

[Anthony C]

I also stay away from them ..Try them for awhile and see for yourself I think youll find that your rotator will be hurting ... I tryed for awhile but my shoulders were hurting all the time ....

[n4529359]

yeah of course u can do them and feel good
it does'ent take one time it takes years of it
like i said before in general it degrades the labrum that holds the shoulder in place in that position. once the labrum is gone or you get a few sublaxations (partial dislocations ) thats it your shoulder joint becomes very loose because of the tissue degredation. its not one of those things that u can get stronger and more acquired to it.

its just gets worse and worse

[WelshWarrior]

Does anyone do behind the neck military presses anymore? In addition to that anyone do behind the neck pulldowns? A guy in the gym and I were discussing this and he stated that they (behind the neck motions) are a must which I inturn told him he is full of ***t. I glanced at a post here not to long ago and I believe people are getting away from that motion due to rotator cuff probs. But you never know!!

I used to do them when I was starting out. Now I would never do them. The angle and pressure on your joints in the movement grosses me out.

[daytrader]

Never done em... and certainly never will!!! Ive got it ingrained in my brain i suppose because in HS when i first started lifting for football the first thing our coaches told us was to NEVER do ANYTHING behind or neck..... I love lifting too much to risk it..... Why take the risk??? Wow i see some guy at Golds... POWEr lifter type doing free weight behind the neck press with 245! :O

[D7M]

their no good for you, imho

[Testsubject]

I do them, only on a smith machine though, and only once every few workouts. Do go too heavy and dont bring the bar too low.