Overtraining

[tard_zone]

Hey guys, I want to make sure I am not overtraining. Here is my weekly work out.

Monday - Chest
Tuesday - Back
Wednesday - Triceps
Thursday - Biceps and forearms
Friday - Shoulders and Traps
Saturday - Legs
Sunday - Lower back, abs,

I've seen how people do chest and tri's together and back and bi's together. But I only go for 45 min a day so I can't see how seperating them is doing any harm. I don't think im over training because I am still hitting a muscle group per week. Can I have some input?

[IBdmfkr]

Where are your days off?

I train 1day on, 2days off.. I see no reason why you need to train that many days unless your workouts are pitiful and have no intensity.

[tard_zone]

my workouts are very intense. The thing is, is it considered overtraining if you go everyday but its for a short time interval and very intense. Keeping in mind that only one muscle group per week is hit. If it is really recommended i dont do what i am doing. Help me fix it.

[Chad B]

Hey guys, I want to make sure I am not overtraining. Here is my weekly work out.

Monday - Chest
Tuesday - Back
Wednesday - Triceps
Thursday - Biceps and forearms
Friday - Shoulders and Traps
Saturday - Legs
Sunday - Lower back, abs,

I've seen how people do chest and tri's together and back and bi's together. But I only go for 45 min a day so I can't see how seperating them is doing any harm. I don't think im over training because I am still hitting a muscle group per week. Can I have some input?

I think it would be better like this:

Monday -Full Legs
Tuesday - Chest,abs,
Wednesday -Biceps and forearms and Traps
Thursday -Recovery day, no workout
Friday - Full Back
Saturday - Triceps,Shoulders
Sunday - Recovery day, no workout

You should be able to do a workout in an hour

2 days off is the standerd for bb, pick and choose what days,

[boarder034]

i hate to throw in the c word, but are you doing cardio in any of this? Cardio always helps to have lean gains, plus itll allow a lil "mess" in the diet... sooo any cardio?

[DNoMac]

I see no need to devote entire days to such small muscles. If anything, I'd split legs into seperate days, not a muslce like triceps or lower back.

[tard_zone]

i hate to throw in the c word, but are you doing cardio in any of this? Cardio always helps to have lean gains, plus itll allow a lil "mess" in the diet... sooo any cardio?

I'm currently bulking, so I am doing zero cardio. After I've bulked up to my desired weight, I'll start cutting.

[tard_zone]

2 days off is the standerd for bb, pick and choose what days

Is one day off a week good enough? Providing my workouts are intense, 30-45 min., one muscle group per week? The reason I do triceps and biceps seperate is because I've added most of my size and strength when I did it that way. Chest for me is important and I will not split a chest day, I had a chest surgery and my bench when i first got back from surgery was only the barbell itself (45 pounds) now I'm back at 170 pounds, still not back from where I started, but will get there soon. I'm going to cut abs out of my training because I'd rather do abs when im cutting. So that saves a day. So it looks like this

Monday - Chest
Tuesday - Back
Wednesday - Triceps
Thursday - Biceps and forearms
Friday - Shoulders and Traps
Saturday - Legs

[Chad B]

Is one day off a week good enough? Providing my workouts are intense, 30-45 min., one muscle group per week? The reason I do triceps and biceps seperate is because I've added most of my size and strength when I did it that way. Chest for me is important and I will not split a chest day, I had a chest surgery and my bench when i first got back from surgery was only the barbell itself (45 pounds) now I'm back at 170 pounds, still not back from where I started, but will get there soon. I'm going to cut abs out of my training because I'd rather do abs when im cutting. So that saves a day. So it looks like this

Monday - Chest
Tuesday - Back
Wednesday - Triceps
Thursday - Biceps and forearms
Friday - Shoulders and Traps
Saturday - Legs

To answer you question.

As long as you only do one muscle group per week you can not over train. PERIOD

[IBdmfkr]

Actually Chad that is completely false. You can easily overtrain if you don't give your CNS (central nervous system) time to recooperate.
First your body has to repair the damage you've done to your nervous system, the next step it takes is repairing the damage done to the muscle tissue as this comes secondary and is less important than your body's Nervous system which controls muscle repair/immune system amongst many other things.. After it repairs the damage done to the muscle it will then and only then grow the muscle bigger/stronger than before to protect it from another "attack", it is a natural defense mechanism of the body.

You notice too many guys consistantly overtrain which leads to unneeded Supplement use and Drugs use on many occasions when in reality if they'd just get their diet in order (a steady supply of the right nutrients is needed to repair muscle tissue), Have adequate rest between workouts and even more importantly Progressively overload the muscle (meaning you must either lift heavier or more reps repeatedly on each and every workout to cause the muscle to want to become bigger).

That's a brief summary of reasons, I could go into it further but I don't feel like typing a book, but I could recommend some good reads instead if needed.

So to answer your question TardZone, if you are infact training as intensely as you claim with that routine, you can see how you'd be overtraining and come to a plateau very quickly. Beginners can get away with overtraining more-so than more advanced lifters but it will still cause stunts in muscle growth.. Like I said I spend a max of 2-3hrs in the gym/wk, You grow outside of the gym bro.

[tard_zone]

How would you recommend I change my routine then, I**mfkr. Whats your routine like?

[DNoMac]

Hey I**mfkr- If you could, could you post links or titles to your recommended readings? This topic interests me a lot.

[IBdmfkr]

How would you recommend I change my routine then, I**mfkr. Whats your routine like?

Here's a sample, I won't get too detailed into the routine as it is a bit more advanced but a similar approach can be taken with a newer lifter with great success... How do I know this? Because I currently have 6 clients (4 Women!, one novice BB'er, and another guy who is 6'4 290lbs) on this same workout schedule with unbelievable results.. The women are making extraordinary progess, they progessively lift more EVERY workout, I'm not just saying they lift a tad bit more, they are blowing their previous lifts out of the water.. On something they did 6-7reps of last week they are moving up in weight and doing 8-10.. incredible. Btw, the women are only lifting Monday and Friday but I write their diets, basically controling the anabolic environment their body stays in.

Anyway here's a sample:
Sun: Chest/Shoulders/Tri's
Mon: OFF
Tues: OFF
Wed: Back/Traps/Bi's
Thus: OFF
Fri: OFF
Sat: Legs/Calves
sun: off
mon: off
Tues: REPEAT

Hey I**mfkr- If you could, could you post links or titles to your recommended readings? This topic interests me a lot.

Here are a few good reads, but keep in mind although Mentzer has some good philosophies, I have taken some of his idea and expanded them.. You'll find this with anybody's theories/training protocols, whether it be DC, Mentzer, D. Yates, John Little etc.. I've found that they all have great concepts and ideas but needed to be tweaked a bit to fit myself or my clients, so far I'm very impressed.

High-Intensity Training, The Mike Menzter Way - great read, lots of good physiology and concepts in this book, a bit harder of a read for someone on a beginning level..

Start with this book: The Wisdom of Mike Menzter by John Little
Nutrient Timing by John Ivy is a descent book although I don't agree with all the concepts, but it gives you a good baseline to go by.

Max Contractions by John Little and Advanced M.Contractions.. Haven't finished them but similar concepts to Mentzer (since he was John Little's mentor in a sense) but different ideas, gives the reader a broader range of knowledge and helps you think out-side the box.

There are more but these should keep you busy for a while, DC training is good to look into, another form of HIT with Static stretching involved etc..
Reading up on Powerlifter's routines is helpful as well, these guys have huge strength gains and Muscle gains during their careers but their diet is the obvious factor which makes it impossible for them to compete, I'm interested in the Intensity of their training and the results that follow from it.

That gives you some ideas and books to look at, may open your mind a bit away from the mainstream hypnosis that has most everyone fooled.

[notorious_mem]

"Like I said I spend a max of 2-3hrs in the gym/wk, You grow outside of the gym bro." i**mfkr
are you lifting by yourself or do you lift with a partner?I ask because i started lifting with a partner and my workout has grown to about an hour and a half.Ive also wondered if i overlift with mon tue workout wed- rest thur-fri workout sat-sun rest

[IBdmfkr]

I have to have a spot with my intensity.. 1hr tops otherwise I'll drop that partner and train with someone else. We don't stand around and bullshit, we are there to work.

[SuperLift]

Personally I would change it to something like this.... There is no reason to train forearms imo. They will grow along with all your other lifts. I never do soley forearm workouts and I always feel a great pump in my forearm after a bi/tri day. Just like everyone else says, you dont grow at the gym, you grow when you rest. You just LOOK the biggest when you are at the gym! GL bro!

Monday - Chest
Tuesday - Back/Traps
Wednesday - Biceps/Triceps
Thursday - REST
Friday - Shoulders
Saturday - Legs

[IBdmfkr]

Train 5-6days/wk.. lol For most people expect to hit a plateau immediately. If you're Jay Cutler you can get away with it..

[tard_zone]

Train 5-6days/wk.. lol For most people expect to hit a plateau immediately. If you're Jay Cutler you can get away with it..

How can some people's bodies have the ability to over train while others cannot? I know Jay Cutler is professional and this years Mr.O but what enables him to have the ability to overtrain

[IBdmfkr]

Genetics, those of which none of us possess so don't try and train or eat like Jay Cutler you will get fat and make zero progress in the gym.

You have to play with what you're dealt and be realistic with yourself about it.. if you aren't making strength gains Every time you go in the gym then you are overtraining. Try taking an additional day or two off and then see how it affects you, eventually you'll find that sweet spot of how many days your body takes to recovery from certain excercises etc.. Mine for example for Legs is around 3-4days out of the gym because I can honestly train to full intensity again.. As you get more advanced your body will grow but your central nervous system won't so the extra muscle will put more of a strain on your CNS causing you to have the need to add extra days to aid in recovery.

A beginner is usually ok with 5days/wk, but as you advance you might only workout 2-3days/wk to keep seeing optimal results.. It's hard to understand and I'm tired of typing

[WidowMaker]

OH! Boy the rookies are at it again.lol.
No disrespect intended Brother, but, you do need at least one day off between workouts. Unless you know something we don't . . . if so you wouldn't have asked for help with this.
No matter how intense, strong, or eager you are; your body will pay you back many times fold for the goals you set out if you let it rest.

Later,
Widow

[guest589745]

I** dont you find that your chest for example, is recovered before you are scheduled to hit it again? I cant understand why you would wait that long to train it again when it should be ready sooner. I guess we are all different and Im not saying I know anything really but, Can you talk a bit about your reasoning behind such long periods of off tme in between WOs for each BP?

Here is what I am working with now (Or was til I was injured)

1-chest/biceps/front delts
2-off
3-back/traps/triceps/side-rear delts
4-off
5-quads/hams/calves/abs
6-0ff
7-repeat

just fyi.

[guest589745]

I'm tired of typing

Perfect timing...........

[doittoit]

I**mfkr i understand the theory that u should make strength gains every workout, but what about the concept of overload? Train muscles twice outta 8-10 days, than just once next micro cycle? Some weeks u arent gonna make gains it seems, the body is kinda rebeling, or there might be some external factors, maybe time to switch it up? your thoughts?

[IBdmfkr]

I** dont you find that your chest for example, is recovered before you are scheduled to hit it again? This particular topic would require paragraphs to explain, I just don't have the time to sit and type it all nor am I getting paid for it lol.. I cant understand why you would wait that long to train it again when it should be ready sooner. I guess we are all different and Im not saying I know anything really but, Can you talk a bit about your reasoning behind such long periods of off tme in between WOs for each BP? I just touched on it briefly in my last post. I'll quote it again below .

You have to play with what you're dealt and be realistic with yourself about it.. if you aren't making strength gains Every time you go in the gym then you are overtraining. Try taking an additional day or two off and then see how it affects you, eventually you'll find that sweet spot of how many days your body takes to recovery from certain excercises etc.. Mine for example for Legs is around 3-4days out of the gym because I can honestly train to full intensity again.. As you get more advanced your body will grow but your central nervous system won't so the extra muscle will put more of a strain on your CNS causing you to have the need to add extra days to aid in recovery.

I**mfkr i understand the theory that u should make strength gains every workout, but what about the concept of overload? Progressive overload is what I'm talking about, if you progressively are getting stronger then your muscle are forced to grow, it's simple physics. Train muscles twice outta 8-10 days, than just once next micro cycle? I have two separate routines, so example Week 1 + 3 are the same, Weeks 2+4 are the same, therefore I technically only see the same workout Every other week giving myself plenty of time to rest and progressively see results from workout to workout. Some weeks u arent gonna make gains it seems, the body is kinda rebeling, or there might be some external factors, maybe time to switch it up? If you don't make gains you must go back and overlook your whole program, these are things you should consider putting under the microscope: Training intensity (did you train as intense as your last visit to the gym on that bodygroup, what external factors could've caused you not to, stress/fatigue etc), Has your diet been on schedule for the day and have you fueled yourself with proper nutrients to give your full intensity, Could you beneficially have taken another day off inbetween workouts to help recover your CNS and allow your muscle tissue to grow... and many more factors.
As far as switching it up, yes that could possibly be the case if everything else pans out, don't waste time continuously doing the same weight/reps on a certain excercise, drop that shit and move on, keep progressing! your thoughts?

Hope that made sense.. I'm trying to keep it as simple as possible and not get off on a tangent like I do with a few of my more advanced trainees. Plus you can only explain so much on a webforum compared to being next to someone in the gym or infront of you in your office.

[guest589745]

I hear ya, cant "give away" info that someone else is paying you for. Thanks.

[IBdmfkr]

lol.. not just that but my fingers are stiff from this GH and typing isn't fun under those conditions

I hope I've given you a general idea of my thoughts/theories and where I'm coming from.. There are many theories out there by many people so pay close attention to what someone has to say and don't feel threatened to challenge their way of thinking in a respectful way, they might just learn something from you by doing so and help both of you come to a better conclusion of doing things.. I learn new stuff each day and alter my way of thinking the same, so in 6months I may have a slightly different view on things It's a learning process. Mentzer was a great individual with great ideas but one thing I find with him is his philosophies on different subjects seemed to change and also contradict what he wrote in his books a bit from his interviews etc.. Those are things you need to pick up on and then scuplt your ideas around when following someone's work.
DC
Ironman
Yates
John Little

All these guys have similar ideas but branched out from other peoples ideas and formed their own, that's all I am doing as I find things that work and then test them in the real world on real people.

[guest589745]

No problemo.