Cardio two times a day?

**noitnes** · 11-24-2006, 03:50 PM

Right now im doing cardo for 45 mins in the morning on an empty stomach every day (weekends included).

I have measured my HR (using the 220-age*70%) and it seems I cant even pass walking on 3.0 speed, without an incline, without passing my heart rate of 139 for fat burning.

I feel that walking on 3.0 speed only once a day is not getting me real results. I understand I am not supposed to pass my heart rate by running or jogging but walking at 3.0 on no incline is pretty bad isnt it?

Maybe I can up the amount by doing the cardo in the morning, and after my workout in order to increase my results?

What do you think?

SVTMuscle* · 11-24-2006, 04:25 PM

The AM cardio is solid. You can bump it up to 30 min post workout which is great also, you wont keep much muscle mass, but you'll cut. Or you can do 20-40 min before bed, to drain out carbs before bed, then hit it in the AM and really burn all fat

**noitnes** · 11-24-2006, 04:29 PM

Ok sounds good. I will probably end up doing another 30 mins after my workout as I dont have much time in the night due to my work hours.

Is it normal that I cant go past a 3.0 speed with no incline without passing my fat burning zone? This barely even makes me sweat lol.

SVTMuscle* · 11-24-2006, 04:33 PM

It is common for bodybuilders who want to preserve muscle to keep it at low speeds and a high incline, a slower walk at around 3.0-3.4 mph with a 4.0-6.0 incline is most common

**noitnes** · 11-24-2006, 04:34 PM

Yes, I have read that. What worries me though is I cant even go to 1.0 incline without my heart rate going past 140... is this normal?

***t-gunz*** · 11-26-2006, 06:03 AM

everyone varies.. that comes down to your fitness. and the only way to get better is to keep training. keep doing it and eventually you'll need to walk fast to keep the same heart rate as you have now!!

**timtim** · 11-26-2006, 12:52 PM

You can bump it up to 30 min post workout which is great also, you wont keep much muscle mass, but you'll cut.

really? where did you find information that says this?

**JC2007** · 11-26-2006, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by noitnes

Right now im doing cardo for 45 mins in the morning on an empty stomach every day (weekends included).

I have measured my HR (using the 220-age*70%) and it seems I cant even pass walking on 3.0 speed, without an incline, without passing my heart rate of 139 for fat burning.

I feel that walking on 3.0 speed only once a day is not getting me real results. I understand I am not supposed to pass my heart rate by running or jogging but walking at 3.0 on no incline is pretty bad isnt it?

Maybe I can up the amount by doing the cardo in the morning, and after my workout in order to increase my results?

What do you think?

Use an incline then...

There's no reason to not increase intensity. It's not like you're going to start melting mass if you go slightly over your heart rate. I recommend a brisk walk without holding on obviously, on a good incline so you're breathing pretty good but not gasping for air...

**MuscleScience** · 11-26-2006, 11:27 PM

You just shoot yourself in the foot when you do cardio on an empty stomach. You need sugar to burn fat. If you dont you create a condition called ketosis. if you ate a little something you will get better results. Your workout is sound, your right in the fat burning zone as they say.

**DNoMac** · 11-27-2006, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleScience

You just shoot yourself in the foot when you do cardio on an empty stomach. You need sugar to burn fat. If you dont you create a condition called ketosis. if you ate a little something you will get better results. Your workout is sound, your right in the fat burning zone as they say.

Can you elaborate on the sugar to burn fat statement or post a study?

**MuscleScience** · 11-28-2006, 01:48 AM

Originally Posted by DNoMac

Can you elaborate on the sugar to burn fat statement or post a study?

its called beta-oxidation I wont go into detail but glucose is an essential component of the reaction. If you google it you will see the chemical process. without sugars once you start breaking down fats if sugar isnt present then you get a byproduct of ketones which is acidic. these ketone bodies are in serum and cause a state of acidosis of the blood.

**Columbus** · 11-28-2006, 12:27 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleScience

its called beta-oxidation I wont go into detail but glucose is an essential component of the reaction. If you google it you will see the chemical process. without sugars once you start breaking down fats if sugar isnt present then you get a byproduct of ketones which is acidic. these ketone bodies are in serum and cause a state of acidosis of the blood.

garbage,,,,,its been tried and true

***perfectbeast2001*** · 11-28-2006, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleScience

You just shoot yourself in the foot when you do cardio on an empty stomach. You need sugar to burn fat. If you dont you create a condition called ketosis. if you ate a little something you will get better results. Your workout is sound, your right in the fat burning zone as they say.

sorry but your theory has been disproved by millions of people burning fat on empty stomachs. When i see all the fat people in the gym doing cardio and sucking on a lolly you think they are gonna burn more fat. LMAO

**Columbus** · 11-28-2006, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by perfectbeast2001

sorry but your theory has been disproved by millions of people burning fat on empty stomachs. When i see all the fat people in the gym doing cardio and sucking on a lolly you think they are gonna burn more fat. LMAO

**MuscleScience** · 11-28-2006, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by Columbus

garbage,,,,,its been tried and true

Sure your going to burn fat no matter what you do. All Im stating is that the primary literature says that to burn the most fat calories per percentage of calories burned, that you should have some sort of meal before cardio/exercise. And no taking a powerade before a workout or something full of sugars is stupid. Im talking about complex carbohydrates that stimulate your metabolic rate to increase. If your metabolic rate is decreased then you cant burn as much fat.

**MuscleScience** · 11-28-2006, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by perfectbeast2001

sorry but your theory has been disproved by millions of people burning fat on empty stomachs. When i see all the fat people in the gym doing cardio and sucking on a lolly you think they are gonna burn more fat. LMAO

Not my theory its stated in about every exercise physiology book that is not published by bodybuilders or hollywood personal trainers.

**sonar1234** · 11-28-2006, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleScience

its called beta-oxidation I wont go into detail but glucose is an essential component of the reaction. If you google it you will see the chemical process. without sugars once you start breaking down fats if sugar isnt present then you get a byproduct of ketones which is acidic. these ketone bodies are in serum and cause a state of acidosis of the blood.

You need a lot more then this to hit ketosis, sorry but i been on atkins, ketogenic diet and UD2.0, you really gotta work hard to get into ketosis and burn out all the glycogen.

Correctly done you cut out carbs on Sunday say 6PM then hit a total body workout the next morning empty stomach, then 30 minutes of cardio, Tuesday you do the same and if you are lucky you should hit ketosis just around 6 pm at night, did i mention that you are eating 20g of carbs per day since Sunday 6PM, well yeah.

So if people continue to eat carbs and usually thats around 200g a day they will never be near ketosis.

**1819** · 11-28-2006, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleScience

You just shoot yourself in the foot when you do cardio on an empty stomach. You need sugar to burn fat. If you dont you create a condition called ketosis. if you ate a little something you will get better results. Your workout is sound, your right in the fat burning zone as they say.

i just saw this and have to add that this is incorrect. cardio on empty stomach is the way to go.period.

**MuscleScience** · 11-28-2006, 07:56 PM

Originally Posted by sonar1234

You need a lot more then this to hit ketosis, sorry but i been on atkins, ketogenic diet and UD2.0, you really gotta work hard to get into ketosis and burn out all the glycogen.

Correctly done you cut out carbs on Sunday say 6PM then hit a total body workout the next morning empty stomach, then 30 minutes of cardio, Tuesday you do the same and if you are lucky you should hit ketosis just around 6 pm at night, did i mention that you are eating 20g of carbs per day since Sunday 6PM, well yeah.

So if people continue to eat carbs and usually thats around 200g a day they will never be near ketosis.

I agree with you on that completely. I misundertood the that they were completly cutting carbs while cutting. My bad.

**sonar1234** · 11-28-2006, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by MuscleScience

I agree with you on that completely. I misundertood the that they were completly cutting carbs while cutting. My bad.

Its better not to cut out all the carbs theses low carb diets are the worst, you gotta have a refeed at some point or you lose all the muscles.

You can wait about 1 hour after your training and cardio in the morning then after refeed with a good PWO, you will be depleted but not to that drastic point then you can actually feel the muscle getting pump up after the PWO LOL

**MuscleScience** · 11-28-2006, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by 1819

i just saw this and have to add that this is incorrect. cardio on empty stomach is the way to go.period.

Were else in the body is glycogen stored? If you deplete glycogen stores what happens to your muscles? Do you think that your muscles are going to let their glycogen stores be depleted? Why do you metabolize fat? What happens to your body when you serum blood sugar is low? Why do people who skip breakfast tend to be heavier than people who eat breakfast even if they perform the same exercise regime. Answer these questions and you will start to understand why cardio/exercise on an empty stomach is bad.

**Schmidty** · 11-28-2006, 08:12 PM

im gona have to go with beaste on this

**MuscleScience** · 11-28-2006, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by sonar1234

Its better not to cut out all the carbs theses low carb diets are the worst, you gotta have a refeed at some point or you lose all the muscles.

You can wait about 1 hour after your training and cardio in the morning then after refeed with a good PWO, you will be depleted but not to that drastic point then you can actually feel the muscle getting pump up after the PWO LOL

Its funny to think that anyone would think that completely restricting carbs was ever a good idea. But all that it takes is a little money and publicity to throw good practice and science out the window.

I have been having this same discussion with my exercise phys students the last two semesters about the cardio/exercise on an empty stomach. Its a hard concept to grasp, It took me awhile to embrace it as I have to admit. One would think that if i skip this meal and do cardio then im going to burn fat and reduce caloric intake a the same time so the sum of the calories expended will multiple. It hard to make the leap metabolic processes are a cascade of processes that work together and if you mess with one process then the rest of the processes have to adapt.

**Columbus** · 11-29-2006, 06:19 AM

and another debate goes on...............*grabs popcorn*

***perfectbeast2001*** · 11-29-2006, 06:23 AM

I base my "theory" on the fact that cardio on an empty stomach lost me 100lb+ of fat. I love all these "text book" excercise theories, they read great but thats about it.

**MuscleScience** · 11-29-2006, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by perfectbeast2001

I base my "theory" on the fact that cardio on an empty stomach lost me 100lb+ of fat. I love all these "text book" excercise theories, they read great but thats about it.

Like I said, you will burn fat no matter what you do if you engage in aerobic exercise. Most people will burn fat more effectively if they eat a light meal of complex carbs 30-60 min before exercise. Bottom line is do what you think is right for you. We can take this debate further by saying that you should do wieght training before cardio because you will burn more fat and stimulate your metabolism better. But there are those who dont feel comfortable with that. Even thought its been proven study after study to be more effective but thats fine its there personal preference. I personally always do cardio before I do back exercises because for me I feel it makes me stretched out and warmed up before exercise knowing full well that It will negatively effect my performance, it just feels better to me.

This has been a good debate!

**timtim** · 11-29-2006, 06:23 PM

i agree a.m. cardio is a myth. i have had better results doing it in the afternoon with a protein/fat meal 2 hours prior to the cardio.

**JC2007** · 11-29-2006, 08:55 PM

Originally Posted by timtim

i agree a.m. cardio is a myth. i have had better results doing it in the afternoon with a protein/fat meal 2 hours prior to the cardio.

Since it didn't work for you but has for many others, it's a myth?

**cfiler** · 11-29-2006, 10:25 PM

I had best results, training twice daily. 1 45 min cardio session before bed. Then 1 45 min cardio session in the AM before a meal.

Everyone is different though, but that worked extreamly well for me.

**Venum** · 12-01-2006, 08:23 AM

sorry for the hijack i dont mean to but i just have one question about the morning cardio stuff....i also weight train in the morning, so I eat breakfast first because I cannot work out on an empty stomach, and then I do my cardio afterwards...is this just as affective?

**Ufa** · 12-01-2006, 08:31 AM

edit

**JC2007** · 12-01-2006, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Venum

sorry for the hijack i dont mean to but i just have one question about the morning cardio stuff....i also weight train in the morning, so I eat breakfast first because I cannot work out on an empty stomach, and then I do my cardio afterwards...is this just as affective?

Depends what you consume for breakfast.

**mick-g** · 12-01-2006, 11:50 AM

You are def not doing enough intensity. 3.0 is not fast enough. Do at least 3.7-3.8 and do an incline of at least 14. do that for 40min a see what kinda sweat youll have, lol! Alot has to do with your diet as well.

**Venum** · 12-01-2006, 12:02 PM

Originally Posted by JC2007

Depends what you consume for breakfast.

egg whites and half cup of oatmeal

**timtim** · 12-02-2006, 07:10 AM

Since it didn't work for you but has for many others, it's a myth?

yea thats exactly what i said pal. whatever works for me is the only thing that works. got ya.

this is a message board and my opinion is that a.m. cardio is a myth and since i got about 10 years of trying different cardio times and different cardio routines i will say my experience shows me that a.m. cardio is a myth. but thanks for trying to call me out. at least i have the decade of personal experience to make my claims.

what are your claims/reasons that a.m. cardio works? let me guess, carbs before bed make you fat too, right?