help with BICEPS

**DIANABOLIO** · 12-17-2006, 08:28 PM

I have naturally small biceps and have tried everything to make them grow, including IM injections with test. My workouts have varied from a shit load of 21's to heavy barbell and shock routines. They've gotten a little bigger, but lack width/fullness. I'm thinking about IGF. any suggestions as far as workouts etc. I'm in the middle of a test/eq cycle, but sick with the flu for the last 2 weeks, haven't been working out or eating and slowly watching my arms shrink... I have a buddy who says that I need to stop working them out for up to 6 weeks and then hit them hard. He just did his first show and used this strategy and his arms look great.

**abstrack** · 12-17-2006, 09:14 PM

I have always found that using compound movents have made mine grow.

My typical arm workout consist of 1 time per week.

4 sets of straight bar curls

4-6 reps

4 sets of hammer curls

4-6 reps

or

4 sets of preacher curls

4-6 reps

4 sets of close grips presses

4-6 reps

all movements are done slow and controlled and squeezing the biceps at contraction.

**LukeNY** · 12-18-2006, 05:42 PM

Whats your back workout like?

**marsab73** · 12-18-2006, 06:05 PM

Is That You In The Avatar...if So.....looking Good....i Seem To Think I Have The Same Problem...i Have Not Been Able To Break 18's, Ask Any Of My Friends And They Think I Have Nice Guns But We Can Be Our Worst Critiques....anyhow What I Have Been Trying Is One Or 2 Heavy Compound Exercises Followed By 2 Or 3 Isolations...spider Curls Preacher And Concentration With Moderate Weight Till The Bis Are Burning...my Art Doc Highly Suggest Reverse Movements For The Brachialis...he Swears By Them,,,,i Have Thrown Them Into My Bi Workout Days As Well....good Luck Bud...

**DutchCowboy** · 12-18-2006, 09:16 PM

try changing up your routine. make a separate day for arms, drop the number of sets and exercises. try 2 exercises with 3 sets each or 3 exercises with 2 sets each. Seems that you may be over-doing it with all the fancy stuff.

**DIANABOLIO** · 12-18-2006, 10:42 PM

Originally Posted by LukeNY

Whats your back workout like?

Non-existant at the moment except for lower back: Good mornings, weighted extensions and pull-ups. My back gets huge when I train it -gets super thick and wide and is not in proportion, I have a small frame 5'8". I work out biceps twice per week to make up for not doing back...

**DIANABOLIO** · 12-18-2006, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by marsab73

Is That You In The Avatar...if So.....looking Good....i Seem To Think I Have The Same Problem...i Have Not Been Able To Break 18's, Ask Any Of My Friends And They Think I Have Nice Guns But We Can Be Our Worst Critiques....anyhow What I Have Been Trying Is One Or 2 Heavy Compound Exercises Followed By 2 Or 3 Isolations...spider Curls Preacher And Concentration With Moderate Weight Till The Bis Are Burning...my Art Doc Highly Suggest Reverse Movements For The Brachialis...he Swears By Them,,,,i Have Thrown Them Into My Bi Workout Days As Well....good Luck Bud...

Yep that's me -last Dec. @ 17% bf LOL -Thanks!! Yes, I get told too that my arms are "big" by my wife -but she'd tell me anything to make me feel good, lol, but I know that they're def. not in proportion.
What do you mean about "compound" moves for biceps?

**DIANABOLIO** · 12-18-2006, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by abstrack

I have always found that using compound movents have made mine grow.

My typical arm workout consist of 1 time per week.

4 sets of straight bar curls

4-6 reps

4 sets of hammer curls

4-6 reps

or

4 sets of preacher curls

4-6 reps

4 sets of close grips presses

4-6 reps

all movements are done slow and controlled and squeezing the biceps at contraction.

Thanks! Sounds like the basic routine I've been using, except for the close grip presses -I've been doing those for tris... So when you do 4-6 sets are you going as heavy as you can go? Are those amount of reps working for you???

**sooners04** · 12-19-2006, 04:03 AM

Hows your leg workout? That will help the bis

**Chemical King** · 12-19-2006, 06:22 AM

have you tried wide grip / short grip when you do your 21s ?

this worked well for me but I found when you pound your arms you have to be careful not to overtrain them.

**abstrack** · 12-19-2006, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by DIANABOLIO

Thanks! Sounds like the basic routine I've been using, except for the close grip presses -I've been doing those for tris... So when you do 4-6 sets are you going as heavy as you can go? Are those amount of reps working for you???

4-6 reps of the weight I can do 4 sets with and complete 4-6 reps. It might be 50lbs DB's ??? As long as you can do that weight with a chalange. The key is slow and controlled. Sqeezing hard at the peak of contraction.

Sorry I added tris in there. I do tris on the same day I do bi's and I super set between tris and bi's to get the arms workout done faster. It give you a great pump. I do one set of bi's and jump right into my tri excercise. Then as my tris are resting I hit the bi's right again. No stopping just hitting each excercise hard, with little no no rest.

**abstrack** · 12-19-2006, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by sooners04

Hows your leg workout? That will help the bis

Ditto. If the base grows, the body will follow.

**abstrack** · 12-19-2006, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by marsab73

Is That You In The Avatar...if So.....looking Good....i Seem To Think I Have The Same Problem...i Have Not Been Able To Break 18's, Ask Any Of My Friends And They Think I Have Nice Guns But We Can Be Our Worst Critiques....anyhow What I Have Been Trying Is One Or 2 Heavy Compound Exercises Followed By 2 Or 3 Isolations...spider Curls Preacher And Concentration With Moderate Weight Till The Bis Are Burning...my Art Doc Highly Suggest Reverse Movements For The Brachialis...he Swears By Them,,,,i Have Thrown Them Into My Bi Workout Days As Well....good Luck Bud...

Thats annoying... Capitals at the beginning of each word.

**stayinstacked** · 12-19-2006, 09:30 AM

I have a kickass workout routine I'm doing right now. It's an arm priority routine. you work arms 3x/wk but your only doing minimal sets each workout. My arms are stubborn as well, but I've slapped on a solid 1/4" in 3 wks using this routine. Go to muscleandfitness.com, type in "ultimate arm pump" in the search bar. The program rules, straight up. I'm been bodybuilding for the past 9 or ten years, juicing for 6 years now on and off, and the gains I made on the program were w/ nothing but food, protien, and No Xplode, no juice, and my arms are bigger than they've ever been now. I'm also following the diet they've listed on their site for lean gains, also very awesome.

**DIANABOLIO** · 12-19-2006, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by sooners04

Hows your leg workout? That will help the bis

Great pic! Jay looks HUGE!
My leg workouts are sick -twice per week, no prob. there, but I've been thinking that after these workouts such a big muscle group -when it repairs itself, might be robbing my biceps of growth.

**DIANABOLIO** · 12-19-2006, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Chemical King

have you tried wide grip / short grip when you do your 21s ?

this worked well for me but I found when you pound your arms you have to be careful not to overtrain them.

I do wide/short on my 21's and up and down the stack barbell. I even vary position with dumbells...
I think it's just genetics at this point....

**DIANABOLIO** · 12-19-2006, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by stayinstacked

I have a kickass workout routine I'm doing right now. It's an arm priority routine. you work arms 3x/wk but your only doing minimal sets each workout. My arms are stubborn as well, but I've slapped on a solid 1/4" in 3 wks using this routine. Go to muscleandfitness.com, type in "ultimate arm pump" in the search bar. The program rules, straight up. I'm been bodybuilding for the past 9 or ten years, juicing for 6 years now on and off, and the gains I made on the program were w/ nothing but food, protien, and No Xplode, no juice, and my arms are bigger than they've ever been now. I'm also following the diet they've listed on their site for lean gains, also very awesome.

Sounds like it works -will def. check that out... THANKS!

**Liftnainez** · 12-19-2006, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by stayinstacked

I have a kickass workout routine I'm doing right now. It's an arm priority routine. you work arms 3x/wk but your only doing minimal sets each workout. My arms are stubborn as well, but I've slapped on a solid 1/4" in 3 wks using this routine. Go to muscleandfitness.com, type in "ultimate arm pump" in the search bar. The program rules, straight up. I'm been bodybuilding for the past 9 or ten years, juicing for 6 years now on and off, and the gains I made on the program were w/ nothing but food, protien, and No Xplode, no juice, and my arms are bigger than they've ever been now. I'm also following the diet they've listed on their site for lean gains, also very awesome.

hey bro.. I followed what you said, but i THINK i may be in the wrong place.. can you post a link to both the arm routine and diet.. I always like to read about new programs.. thanks bro

**marsab73** · 12-20-2006, 04:47 AM

compound exercises will involve your back as primary and biceps secondary...close grip palms facing you pull ups.....heavy barbell curls....find your niche and keep it,,,but mix it up everyweek......charles poliquin has some great arm workouts on his site....the guy is a geneius.....

hey abstrack i appologize if my previous post where the first letter of everyword was in caps, annoyed you, i dont know how that occurred...but anyhow if these minut things annoy you.....you really gotta get off your computer and expand your horizons....just my 2 cents....life is too short....try baghdad, no shower for 4 months for example.....now that i think can be annoying......

**marsab73** · 12-20-2006, 04:50 AM

dianabolio, your looking hard bro.....dont forget the essentials....food, protein, bcaa, glutamine.....these all help us.....keep up the hard....

**BOOST** · 12-20-2006, 06:22 AM

Originally Posted by DIANABOLIO

I have naturally small biceps and have tried everything to make them grow, including IM injections with test. My workouts have varied from a shit load of 21's to heavy barbell and shock routines. They've gotten a little bigger, but lack width/fullness. I'm thinking about IGF. any suggestions as far as workouts etc. I'm in the middle of a test/eq cycle, but sick with the flu for the last 2 weeks, haven't been working out or eating and slowly watching my arms shrink... I have a buddy who says that I need to stop working them out for up to 6 weeks and then hit them hard. He just did his first show and used this strategy and his arms look great.

I had the same problem until.......i tried superset's. I super set my arms and they are growing like weeds.

Straight Bar Curl
4 sets
10-12 reps

Preacher Curls
4 sets
10-12 reps

Cable curls
4 sets
10-12 reps

Incline dumbbell curls (Arnold loved these)
4 sets
10-12 reps

NO REST period in between sets. Look out a pump like no other. You bring you muscle to fatigue and keep pushing it. When I am done with this, I can cannot even open the door at the gym to leave. I even find driving hard. But wow what growth and what a pump.

Best Of Luck

**G-Force** · 12-20-2006, 10:49 AM

what i have noticed with bicep training (and arms in general) is that less is more

my arms went from 17" to 18" in no time at all after halving the amount of sets i was doing

i used 4 sets a week for Bi's and only 3 for tri's
and my arms grew like never before

i was previousy doing around 9 - 12 sets per week for each and had been stuck at the 17" mark for months/years

of course i made sure i was doing HEAVY pressing and pulling movements in addition to this direct work

sooooo many people overtrain their arms

your biceps are such a small muscle compared to the rest of your body so it makes me laugh when i see guys doing more sets for arms than they do for back

they do not need that much direct stimulation IMO
if you are doing heavy benches, miltary;s and rows you will only need a few sets of direct work

dont overtrain your arms with the pretty boys
HEAVY ROWS is the way forward
making sure the direct work you do use is with impeccible form - reduce weight if neccessary

**DIANABOLIO** · 12-20-2006, 12:53 PM

Thanks to all!!!!! Great advice and workouts... Conflicting though... I'm going to have to try a few of them out and see what works. I'm going to have to try G-Force's suggestion and lower the amount of sets I do (12-15) to 4, see if the problem has been overtraining...

**DIANABOLIO** · 12-20-2006, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by marsab73

compound exercises will involve your back as primary and biceps secondary...close grip palms facing you pull ups.....heavy barbell curls....find your niche and keep it,,,but mix it up everyweek......charles poliquin has some great arm workouts on his site....the guy is a geneius.....

hey abstrack i appologize if my previous post where the first letter of everyword was in caps, annoyed you, i dont know how that occurred...but anyhow if these minut things annoy you.....you really gotta get off your computer and expand your horizons....just my 2 cents....life is too short....try baghdad, no shower for 4 months for example.....now that i think can be annoying......

I think I'm going to have to ramp up my back w/o's -seems to be the consensus. Do you have a link to Poliquin's site?
btw- are you still in Iraq???

**Schwarzenegger** · 12-21-2006, 01:58 AM

For me, my bi's are totally huge in comparison to everything else. THey just dont stop growing, even if i dont do em for a while. But to get big bis, the key is seated preacher (barbell) curls And also to hit your bis every 2 or 3 days,, even if their totally messed. ON the second day dont go as intense,, just decrease weight by 5 or 10 lbs. I know it sounds like overtraining,, but it totally worked for me when i was younger when i thought that all i needed was arms hahahah ,, how stupid of me eh lol thats wut happens when ur young but yea. Doing back as well can increase the size of your biceps by how you position your thumb on certain exercises. LIke pullups, thumbs out = more back isolation.. THumbs in (ie making a fist) = more bis as well as back. But yea u prolly know that one. Good luck

**DNoMac** · 12-21-2006, 03:30 AM

Originally Posted by G-Force

what i have noticed with bicep training (and arms in general) is that less is more

my arms went from 17" to 18" in no time at all after halving the amount of sets i was doing

i used 4 sets a week for Bi's and only 3 for tri's
and my arms grew like never before

i was previousy doing around 9 - 12 sets per week for each and had been stuck at the 17" mark for months/years

of course i made sure i was doing HEAVY pressing and pulling movements in addition to this direct work

sooooo many people overtrain their arms

your biceps are such a small muscle compared to the rest of your body so it makes me laugh when i see guys doing more sets for arms than they do for back

they do not need that much direct stimulation IMO
if you are doing heavy benches, miltary;s and rows you will only need a few sets of direct work

dont overtrain your arms with the pretty boys
HEAVY ROWS is the way forward
making sure the direct work you do use is with impeccible form - reduce weight if neccessary

Word.