trouble with lats...advice please.

[Lucius Leftfoot]

of all the muscle groups i workout, it seems like my back is the hardest to get sore. (my upper and lower lats to be more specific) it always seems as though my arms give out before i can get a good back workout. i've been trying to concentrate on form and go down with the weight, but it seems like nothing works. is it possible that my arms are just too weak for me to get a good back workout?? does anybody else have this problem??

[SMCengineer]

Well, first off I would try doing heavy deadlifts for back thickness. In fact, that should be your primary exercise on back day. Next, you should add a pull down exercise that you feel hit's your lats sufficiently. What you should be focusing on when you do the pulldown is keeping your hands in a hook fashion. Like this: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=258392. Also, try to think of pulling down with your elbows. These two techniques should take the focus off of your biceps. The best way to get an idea of what I mean is to just practice in front of your mirror with no weight. You want to really feel your lats working as you pull the weight. When you don't feel like your lats are pulling the weight, go lighter.

[Random]

Good post Blome; along with that i found out years ago that using straps even tho they might not be needed--will take some strain off the forearms and biceps making it easier to channel all the focus on your lats/back...

CD

[number twelve]

+1 for straps.
also every time i go in the gym i do a few pullups, just to practice squeezing my lats. hope it helps

[nyjetsfan86]

pull ups, wide grip pull downs

[-DedicateD-]

after lifting for awhile, i just recently started focusing on using the right muscles when i do my pullups/pulldowns

now i have a great mind-muscle connection when i do my pullups, and i get sore after every workout

[Lucius Leftfoot]

thanks fellas, i appreciate your help. i'll try the pulling with elbow technique...but i don't really understand the hooking my hands technique. the link you provided is broken.

[Lucius Leftfoot]

nevermind. i just tried the link again, and it worked. thanx again fellas.

[Random]

Another simple way to "hook" the bar is simply using your 4 fingers minus the thumb...

CD

[MFT81]

I would try to do more pullups than pulldowns, Even though they are the same movement I dont know why but pullups work better,

Also ive found out from reading mike mentzer book "High Intensity the mike mentzer way that all pulldown/pullup movements should be medium/close grip w/ an underhand,

his reason (and you can do it w/ out weight) is that the stretch is deeper and the contraction starts from the begging w/ underhand grip.

W/ a wide overhand grip as you pull down you dont really feel much of a contractoin till about 1/2 way through the movement.

just a thought.

[pwerfll1]

[QUOTE=Lucius Leftfoot]of all the muscle groups i workout, it seems like my back is the hardest to get sore. (my upper and lower lats to be more specific) it always seems as though my arms give out before i can get a good back workout. i've been trying to concentrate on form and go down with the weight, but it seems like nothing works. is it possible that my arms are just too weak for me to get a good back workout?? does anybody else have this problem??[/ on lat pulldowns try to imagine your squeezing a ball in the middle may help as far as form goes

[MFT81]

Good Idea dude, esp if your trying to explain form to a beginer.

Ill have to try it out........

[pwerfll1]

yup works pretty good really lets u feel the muscle workin

[topnotch]

I've had the same problem. I've always done pull-downs in different grips and machines, and will do some pull-ups at the end of a workout...now I've been doing 3 or 4 sets to failure w/ pull-ups...I try to fail around 12 at the most, so I will add weight if necessary and getting full stretch..my back and lats have been more pumped than ever and lats even getting sore...after the pull-ups then I go ahead w/ some other work...usally instead of wide-grip pulldowns i will use a closer grip to change the work area...Also, Ive tried doing back thickness and width in two different workouts...it was a great change for awhile...doing all pull-down type movements in one workout, then dead=lift and pullback movements in the next...i did this for about 6-8 weeks and it was a great way to get past a plateau.

[Kennedy]

Widegrip Pull Ups then start adding weight....always gets me sore....Close grip pull ups for lower lats!

[Ronnie Rowland]

of all the muscle groups i workout, it seems like my back is the hardest to get sore. (my upper and lower lats to be more specific) it always seems as though my arms give out before i can get a good back workout. i've been trying to concentrate on form and go down with the weight, but it seems like nothing works. is it possible that my arms are just too weak for me to get a good back workout?? does anybody else have this problem??

Are you doing wide grip or close grip pulldowns? You may be using too much weight or trying to bring the bar down too far. You need to squeeze and contract the lats. They also require a lot of sets.

[Lucius Leftfoot]

sorry fellas. didn't realize this thread got so many responses. and for the record, the new technique seems to be working...i'm definitely more sore than usual...but still have room for improvement. i guess it'll just take time. thanx for all the input fellas.