Overtraining? And workout advice needed...

I was wondering if you guys (and ladies) feel it is possible to overtrain without knowing it. I have seemingly peaked a while ago. At the age of 22, that is kind of depressing. As I have mentioned in one of my previous, I have not experimented with steroids or supplements in the past. This might however change in the near future. Getting back to my original question, I do spend a lot of time in the gym, but I do not get that ?pump? feeling for a long time. After I leave the gym, and esp. the next day, I have no soreness at all. I am in the process of changing my routine. My new routine looks like this:

Monday (Heavy Chest, Light Triceps, Light Shoulders)
Bench Press (Warm Up) ? 2 sets, 4 reps
Bench Press ? 5 sets, 5 reps
Incline Bench Press ? 4 sets, 5 reps
Dumbbell Bench Press ? 3 sets, 8 reps
Behind The Neck Press ? 3 sets, 8 reps
Side Dumbbell Raise ? 3 sets, 8 reps
Cable Pull Down Over/Under ? 4 sets, 10 reps
Reverse Cable Triceps Extension ? 4 sets 10 reps

Tuesday (Heavy Legs, Cardio)
Squat ? 5 sets, 5 reps
Hack Squats ? 3 sets, 8 reps
Leg Extensions ? 3 sets, 10 reps
Cardio ? 30 minutes

Wednesday (Light Back, Heavy Biceps)
Strict Barbell Curl (Warm Up) ? 2 reps, 4 reps
Strict Barbell Curl ? 4 sets, 8 reps
Preacher Curl ? 4 sets, 8 reps
Upright Row ? 3 sets, 8 reps
Dumbbell Row ? 3 sets, 8 reps
Lat Bar Pull Down ? 3 sets, 8 reps
Dumbbell Shrug ? 3 sets, 8 reps

Thursday (Light Chest, Heavy Triceps, Heavy Shoulders)
Bench Press (Warm Up) ? 2 sets, 4 reps
Bench Press (Light) ? 3 sets, 10 reps
Close Grip Bench Press ? 3 sets, 8 reps
Standing Military Press ? 3 sets, 5 reps
Standing Barbell Raises ? 3 sets 10 reps
Skull Crushers/Close Grip ? 3 sets, 8 reps
Dips (With Weight) ? 3 sets, 8 reps

Friday (Light Legs, Cardio)
Leg Press ? 4 sets, 10 reps
Leg Extensions ? 3 sets, 10 reps
Calf Raises ? 3 sets, 10 reps

Saturday (Heavy Back, Light Biceps)
Deadlift (Warm Up) ? 2 sets, 4 reps
Deadlift ? 5 sets, 5 reps
Bent Over Row ? 3 sets, 10 reps
Lying T Bar Row ? 3 sets, 10 reps
Strict Barbell Curl ? 4 sets, 8 reps
Dumbbell Curl ? 3 sets, 8 reps

Sunday (Off)

I wanted to get some opinions before I put it into effect. I have been using this style program (Push/Pull) for the past 2 years of so. The days have always remained the same for the type of movements, I just apply different exercises every 12 weeks. If I do decide to use the ?diesel? program (aka steroids), what role would steroids play in my training? For those of who have not read my first post, I am 22 years old, 5?10? and currently weigh 235. My bench press is 450, deadlift 560, and squat 440. My partner, who is the same age, would adapt the same program as well. He is 6?0? 225 (22 as well). His bench is 360, deadlift is 460, and squat is 260. The goal of this program would be to improve strength and size. Definition is not a priority. As far as my measurements go, I have a 20.5 inch bicep, 50 inch chest, 34 inch waist. The only measurement I am sure on my partner is he has a 19.5 inch bicep. I would be interested to hear any thoughts and criticisms for my partner and myself. Thanks once again.

Crush

Damn... I keep it simple in the gym, I would never do that kinda program off cycle, especially 6 on 1 off, but if it works for you, go for it. I noticed you can both bench more than you can squat... LOL you guys gotta start hitting those legs harder!!

Questions to ask yourself about overtraining.

1. Am I getting enough sleep? 8 hours +
2. Do I look forward to training?
3. Am I eating correctly especially post training?
4. Am I getting weaker and having little nagging injuries?


These are classic things to ask yourself. There really is no reason to train that 6 days per week. Plus at 22 you don't need to use any gear yet. Yes change your program up. You may need to change the reps, volume or itensity of your workout to push past the platueas. Truly though if you're not recovering it doesn't matter what you do...you won't grow!

How long have you been training? What kind of diet do you follow? How much sleep do you get?

Thanks for the advice. I have been training since the age of 15. I am loooking to try new things since I have not seen much improvement over the last year or so. I sleep 8 hours a day. I don't follow any specific diet, but eat well. Injuries are not a problem. I have been changing up my workouts for a while now, still no more gains though. I still havn't found out what works best yet for personal gains. I cut back training in the past, and did not really see any improvement. Does anyone have any routines that they benefited from that they would like to share? I am mostly looking for strength and mass increase. Thanks

Crush

DIET IS 80% of your success .... Along with DB's advice I would say that you aren't eating enough times a day and prolly not focusing on your eating playing that much of an important role in your progress ....

You need to be eating 6 meals a day spaced evenly throughout the day .... Maintaining a sufficient calories to replenish as well as to spark added growth ...]

You need enough protein to enable growth ..

Your program seems way to much .... I would drop to a 4 day workout for now and focus on your eating ....

BTW what is your goals right now . height--weight and BF % ....

good luck

I don't know my body fat, I would estimate around 15%. I don't have rolls. I am 5'10" 235, for the gentlemen who wanted to know. I do eat a lot. How would you suggest breaken up my routine. There are so many exercises to do and it is hard to break them up. My bench has not increased at all over the last year, so I would like to get some gains. I am mostly intersted in strength and size, not definition.

Crush

How many times have you changed your chest routine around in the past year? Trying hitting the chest from different angles mixing the excercises up or even halfing the weight you use and double the reps.Mix it up a bit and growth should begin again.

I personally think you do too much but if it is working stick with it but make sure the other elements like sleep and diet are at 100% so you,re body can recover quickly.

I am going to try the workout listed on the main page. I appreciate all of your help. I started to ask myself, do I really overtrain? The answer is yes. I always thought more is better, which is not. I am going to cut back, and see what happens. In doing this, I am going to cut out close grip benching. It did not list them on the workout schedule on the main page probably because on a trciep day, that does involve a lot of chest as well. Does anyone have any thoughts on this. I just hope droping the close grips, will not lower my bench.

Crush

Good call Crush...if you think you're overtraining, then you probably are. Try Marky's advice and go to a 4 day routine. alternate your heavy power movements with moderate reps and more volume. Remember that the higher joint stress exercises require more recouperation time.

If its strength you are after, Crush, then why bother with all these inclines, isolation and db work? From what I understand most powerlifters keep it very simple.
Your program seems to be geared towards bodybuilding and not powerlifting. For good info on powerflifting programs check out:

www.deepsquatter.com

In particular read Korte's 3x3 program:
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/korte.htm
It is precisely designed to give you that little bit extra in your basic movements.

Hope it helps,

Pantzter
Ilyich

Thanks for the input. I could not imagine benching, deadlifting, and squating 3 times a week though. If twice a week is overtraining, three times a week would kill me. I am not opposed to trying it in the future though. I want to gain mass as well, and hopefully the workout on the main page will help. Thanks

Crush

Man there is some good posts here ...

I have a feeling that weight is your sole concern ... Many would state that their progress is determined by the mirror and what kind of shape their in ...

So in that case ... as far as bench press ... many muscles are working to do that movement ...

My Brother won the Maui International Power lifting meet in Maui, Hi several years back .... at 340 lbs .....

He was trained as a Powerlifter which differs in several ways to BBing .... They don't stray from several basic lifts ..thereby hitting the entire body but, sacrificing symetry.

If strength and Mass are your sole concern brother ... You may wish to change quite a bit in your training .... and as far as eating goes ... A whole lot of that ...
good luck

By the way, Crush
Your stats are indeed amazing. I mean 200kg+ bench already. Woah!!!
May be you should forget about going any further with that and concentrate on your physique? Go under 10% bf, train for symmetry, develop lagging muscles, shoot some gh for a few years and go win Olympia.

Hmm... but then again may be its just me who likes to ass around for 100 reps with a pussy weight and then go stare in the mirror ;)

I am going to change it up quit a bit. Thanks for the advice again, it is appreciated. As far as the Mr. O. Thanks, very flatering, however, those men are the elite. I like to think of myself as good, but I am not in their league, nor will I probably ever be. I might start going more for size and defintion, since I think i have decent genetics. We will see. Thanks again guyz.

Crush

One FINAL note from me...Even though you're looking to increase size and especially strength (I gather) never sacrifice form for weight. At your young age you can get away with a lot of poor lifting habits, however 10 years down the road they WILL catch up to you and you'll find that your joints are in shambles. Warm up thoroughly, ans stretch before and especially after training. "


(Damn, I wish someone had told me that when I was young, I thought I was invincible)

I have always done that as well (well, not always, but the last 4 years). I always go on the tradmill for a few minutes first, and do 10 minutes of stretching. I do every exercise with nice form, I don't just load the bar, and make it look crappy. Benches are done with a 2 second pause. Sqats are deep as well. I have learned that good form, is better than more weight.

Crush

Good form and heavy weight.. damn you all gifted people!!