BIGKEVS workout.... over training for legs?

[weeman001]

i recently started big kevs workout plan, (2 weeks so far) first week i couldnt compleate the leg workout, this week i did but had to rest a lil to avoid puking. i was curious to know how u guys feel about this workout and NOT being on gear or anything, could it be overtraining for legs?

heres the workout...

Barbell squat- 5 sets, 2-4-6-8-10 reps
Leg extentions-4 sets, 8-10-12-12 reps
Hack squats-4 sets, 8-10-10-12 reps
Hamstrings
Stiffleg deadlifts-4 sets, 8-10-10-12 reps
Lying leg curls- 4 sets 10-10-12-12 reps
Calves
Seated raises-4 sets, 6-8-10-12 reps
Standing raises-8-10-12-15 reps



its rediculous... haha

[dank1970]

i recently started big kevs workout plan, (2 weeks so far) first week i couldnt compleate the leg workout, this week i did but had to rest a lil to avoid puking. i was curious to know how u guys feel about this workout and NOT being on gear or anything, could it be overtraining for legs?

heres the workout...

Barbell squat- 5 sets, 2-4-6-8-10 reps
Leg extentions-4 sets, 8-10-12-12 reps
Hack squats-4 sets, 8-10-10-12 reps
Hamstrings
Stiffleg deadlifts-4 sets, 8-10-10-12 reps
Lying leg curls- 4 sets 10-10-12-12 reps
Calves
Seated raises-4 sets, 6-8-10-12 reps
Standing raises-8-10-12-15 reps



its rediculous... haha

maybe a little but it's similar to the one I do once a week. thats the most I work legs. how long does it take you to get that all done

[weeman001]

around between 1hr 45min and 2hrs... you?

[dank1970]

around between 1hr 45min and 2hrs... you?

yea thats about right 1 1/2 to 2 hours depends on how many people are in the gym. I am trying to get in as much as I can in 1 hour now I been reading that spending that much time is overkill and a waste of time. Tryin to up the intensity

[weeman001]

from what i hear its best to get in and out within 45min. this leg workout i thik is impossible to get in and out within 45min. unless you take almost no rest. my legs get so destroyed from it though haha

[dwaynewade]

I personally would keep the shock and training principles... and just customize the sets

instead of 5 sets i'd do 3 and instead of 4 sets i'd do 2, keeping the ascending or descending rep method

this will also allow for more intensity and heavier weight

[angelripper]

id keep it the way your doin it exept do calves on chest day.when your done with quads and hams your spent.so just do calves on another day.

[weeman001]

that sounds like a good idea. because after quads and hams i just want to sit down and not move for a few weeks haha. i'll probably move calves to chest or arms day.

[Ronnie Rowland]

i recently started big kevs workout plan, (2 weeks so far) first week i couldnt compleate the leg workout, this week i did but had to rest a lil to avoid puking. i was curious to know how u guys feel about this workout and NOT being on gear or anything, could it be overtraining for legs?

heres the workout...

Barbell squat- 5 sets, 2-4-6-8-10 reps
Leg extentions-4 sets, 8-10-12-12 reps
Hack squats-4 sets, 8-10-10-12 reps
Hamstrings
Stiffleg deadlifts-4 sets, 8-10-10-12 reps
Lying leg curls- 4 sets 10-10-12-12 reps
Calves
Seated raises-4 sets, 6-8-10-12 reps
Standing raises-8-10-12-15 reps



its rediculous... haha

This routine will over-train the CNS. Don't be surpirised to feel lethargic, get headaches, experience a loss of appetite and have insomnia from doing so many sets in one session.

[Ronnie Rowland]

id keep it the way your doin it exept do calves on chest day.when your done with quads and hams your spent.so just do calves on another day.

Exactly right..

[weeman001]

This routine will over-train the CNS. Don't be surpirised to feel lethargic, get headaches, experience a loss of appetite and have insomnia from doing so many sets in one session.

yea.. its all happend, although i useually hve almost no appetite when im done with legs to being with . and the day after legs im always tired and beat (cns takes a beating) is this really bad? also i take 1-2 days off after legs depending on how i feel.

[Ronnie Rowland]

yea.. its all happend, although i useually hve almost no appetite when im done with legs to being with . and the day after legs im always tired and beat (cns takes a beating) is this really bad? also i take 1-2 days off after legs depending on how i feel.

You are smart by taking 1-2 days off after training legs. Taking off 2 days is even better than 1 day. It's common to have no appetite after training legs but you are doing a bit too much in one session. Once you exceed around 18 sets on leg day it becomes over-training. High volume leg workouts like these should be terminated after 4 weeks. Then it's time for a 2 week cruise to allow the CNS some recovery time. If you negelct to cruise/de-load/un-load your whole body will struggle to make muscle gains and strength gains regardless of what you use to increase protein synthesis.

You will get better results by doing only 2 exercises for the quads as opposed to 3 or 4. My suggestion to you is to spare your CNS by using an isolation movement like leg extensions after squats as opposed to another compound movement like hack squats. Below is a great program for gaining both size and strength without killing the CNS. It's still very tough, but it's not over board like BIG KEVS routine.


Legs (Total 18 sets)

Quads

1) Barbell Squats. Work set #1 is a medium rep prep set (stopping 1 rep shy of good failure). Work set # 2 is a low rep set to good failure. Work set # 3 is a medium rep set to good failure. Work set # 4 is a medium rep set to good failure. Work set # 5 is a high rep set to good failure (5 sets)

2) Leg extensions. Work set # 1 is a high rep set to good failure. Work set # 2 is a medium rep set to good failure. Work set # 3 is a medium rep set to good failure. Work set # 4 is a medium rep set to good failure. Work set # 5 is a low rep set to good failure. (5 sets)

Hamstrings
1) Stiff-legged dead lifts - Work set # is a medium rep prep set (stopping 1 rep shy of good failure). Work set # 2 is a low rep set to good failure. Work set # 3 is a medium rep set to good failure. (3 sets)


2) Leg curls. Work set # 1 is a high rep set to good failure. Work set # 2 is a medium rep set to good failure. Work set # 3 is a medium rep set to good failure. Work set # 4 is a medium rep set to good failure. Work set # 5 is a low rep set to good failure. (5 sets)

Repeat day 1 (calves and chest workout) on day 22 and continue with protocol until (beginning of cruising phase) or until each body part has been trained 4 times.

[Tenmoney]

I never would have connected too many sets to overloading the CNS and causing all those side effects. What is your opinion on this program:

all supersets are w/ little to no rest

Leg extentions superset w/ Leg curls
4 sets (on both exercises) at around 20 reps/set (basically until faliure)
*Sometimes I'll do a drop set on the 4th just to really kill it*

Next;

Superset Leg Press w/ Squats
4 sets (on both) at around 15 reps (again, until failure)
*no drop sets here*

Then;

3 sets of Donkey type calf raises till faliure
*around 30 reps (10 smooth, 10 quick, and 10 VERY slow)*

Maybe some vertical leg press w/ a smith machine, just to hit the rectus femoris

[Ronnie Rowland]

I never would have connected too many sets to overloading the CNS and causing all those side effects. What is your opinion on this program:

all supersets are w/ little to no rest

Leg extentions superset w/ Leg curls
4 sets (on both exercises) at around 20 reps/set (basically until faliure)
*Sometimes I'll do a drop set on the 4th just to really kill it*

Next;

Superset Leg Press w/ Squats
4 sets (on both) at around 15 reps (again, until failure)
*no drop sets here*

Then;

3 sets of Donkey type calf raises till faliure
*around 30 reps (10 smooth, 10 quick, and 10 VERY slow)*

Maybe some vertical leg press w/ a smith machine, just to hit the rectus femoris

Honestly, it's a horrible way to train. You need to stick with straight sets like power-lifters use to produce an effective over-load to the muscles. Your workout program will cause CNS failure before true muscle failure occurs. Work the quads first before proceeding to hams.

I hope this helps!

[Tenmoney]

Thanks for the advice. I did some digging and looked at the stuff you and Doc. Sust wrote on Sling Shot training. I really like what I read and plan applying some of the strategies to major bodyparts. All accept legs. Lately I haven't been able to go as heavy on squats as possible b/c my low back can't take the weight. It's very frustrating cause I LOVE squats. I busted my ass the past 18 months. I was doing 405 for 20 and 500 for 10. Now I will admit my butt wasn't on the floor, but according the gym rats where I was they were legit squats. In any case, for some reason my low back is cashed after squats... to the point of can't barely move. So, I'v been saving them for last. 1. So I can finish my workout , and 2. By then I'm so tired that I can't push the heavy poundages even if I wanted to.

I separate back and legs a good bit to help (back on tues, legs on fri.) but still no help. Its not as if my low back is week either. Just this week I got 405 for 8 on deads. I'm at a loss. This post has gone in a totally different direction than I intended, but do you have any advice for me. I'm willing to what it takes to get results. My workout partners hate me cause they say I'm a bit of a massacist when it comes lifting. If it ain't burning enough to start a fire then we're not done.

[Tenmoney]

So i did some more digging on the sling shot method and adjusted my leg workout today to this:

Squat:
Warm-up
135x8
225x8
working sets
365x8
405x8 (meant for this to be low rep set, but had more than 6 in me)
315x8
225x12

Leg curls:
don't remember weight (went by feel) but,
high rep, mid rep, mid rep, low rep

Extensions:
2 high rep sets

Gastrocs:
donkey press
2 high rep sets
(planning on moving these to chest)

I hit arms twice a week, (chest/tri, back/bi, shoulder/tri, legs/bi) so...

bis:

DB curls:
warm up:
30'sx8
working sets:
45'sx8
55'sx7 (had a little more 6 in me)
40'sx8
35'sx12

seated incline curls (w/ good stretch)
15'sx12
25'sx12

As per my last post, my back was very cashed at the end of squats, however I just left my bely on till I was all the way done with legs and by the time I got to bi's there was no pain. I could actually sit normal in my car on the drive home. Maybe I just needed to take some time off of heavy squats. Who knows.

In any case let me know if looks better than the last workout I posted. Thanks for all your help.
BTW, totally digging all your other posts. You're one educated man.

[Ronnie Rowland]

So i did some more digging on the sling shot method and adjusted my leg workout today to this:

Squat:
Warm-up
135x8
225x8
working sets
365x8
405x8 (meant for this to be low rep set, but had more than 6 in me)
315x8
225x12

Leg curls:
don't remember weight (went by feel) but,
high rep, mid rep, mid rep, low rep

Extensions:
2 high rep sets

Gastrocs:
donkey press
2 high rep sets
(planning on moving these to chest)

I hit arms twice a week, (chest/tri, back/bi, shoulder/tri, legs/bi) so...

bis:

DB curls:
warm up:
30'sx8
working sets:
45'sx8
55'sx7 (had a little more 6 in me)
40'sx8
35'sx12

seated incline curls (w/ good stretch)
15'sx12
25'sx12

As per my last post, my back was very cashed at the end of squats, however I just left my bely on till I was all the way done with legs and by the time I got to bi's there was no pain. I could actually sit normal in my car on the drive home. Maybe I just needed to take some time off of heavy squats. Who knows.

In any case let me know if looks better than the last workout I posted. Thanks for all your help.
BTW, totally digging all your other posts. You're one educated man.

Thanks for the compliment!

Okay, you only need 1 heavy set of 4-6 reps of squats each week to increase stregnth . And yes I think you have been over doing it. A 2 week prime consiting of 12-15 reps is always needed after a 6 week mass phase. If you develop severe lower back problems you may have to train with higher reps (10-15) for every set and never squat below parrallel or eventually quit squatting all together. IMO you are trying to use too much weight as opposed to working the quads!!!

Here's another problem you are encountering: Pre-exhaustion/supersetting techniques like you have been using are destroying your lower back. Pre-exhaustion and/or super setting the legs with leg presses or leg extensions before doing squats is a very bad idea! Many have been led to believe that during the second compound movement, the assistance of the fresher secondary muscles (in this case lower back) would make the quads work harder and the lower back less because the quads have already been fatigued. In a situation like this just the opposite occurs because the fresher and stronger "lower back" muscles will take over even more of the movement during the second leg exercise while the fatigued quad muscles lie dormant and work even less during the squat. Simply put, doing other leg exercises before squats will cause strain on the lower back if you are prone to injury.

Make sense?

[Ronnie Rowland]

So i did some more digging on the sling shot method and adjusted my leg workout today to this:

Squat:
Warm-up
135x8
225x8
working sets
365x8
405x8 (meant for this to be low rep set, but had more than 6 in me)
315x8
225x12

Leg curls:
don't remember weight (went by feel) but,
high rep, mid rep, mid rep, low rep

Extensions:
2 high rep sets

Gastrocs:
donkey press
2 high rep sets
(planning on moving these to chest)

I hit arms twice a week, (chest/tri, back/bi, shoulder/tri, legs/bi) so...

bis:

DB curls:
warm up:
30'sx8
working sets:
45'sx8
55'sx7 (had a little more 6 in me)
40'sx8
35'sx12

seated incline curls (w/ good stretch)
15'sx12
25'sx12

As per my last post, my back was very cashed at the end of squats, however I just left my bely on till I was all the way done with legs and by the time I got to bi's there was no pain. I could actually sit normal in my car on the drive home. Maybe I just needed to take some time off of heavy squats. Who knows.

In any case let me know if looks better than the last workout I posted. Thanks for all your help.
BTW, totally digging all your other posts. You're one educated man.

For starters, you'll need to do arms before training legs. Always train legs last! After training legs the CNS will be hosed.

Do leg curls after extensions. Work one muscle in it's entirety before moving to a different one.

[AnavarX]

Nice workout...also similar to the one I do only I usually start with high reps and go down
Question... How are seated calf raises different from standing?
Just curious?
Ive seen machines plenty of times but never thought steated worked as well as standing at all

[Ronnie Rowland]

Nice workout...also similar to the one I do only I usually start with high reps and go down
Question... How are seated calf raises different from standing?
Just curious?
Ive seen machines plenty of times but never thought steated worked as well as standing at all

Seated calf raises work the sides of the calves (soleous) more as opposed to the actual bulk of the calf muscle (gastrocs).

[Tenmoney]

I assume you are talking about the 365 and 405 sets when you say I only need one heavy squat. I only did that cause I felt the jump from 225 to 405 was to big. If I'm misundersanding what you're saying please clarify. As for the info on my lower back, that makes total sense. As I mentioned, my back did feel much better, and based off your info it makes sense as to why (no superstes/pre-exhaustion). Oh, and I saw that there was a type-o in my post. I meant to say that I left my belt on, not my bely. Maybe now it makes more sense. I was worried that doing that workout wouldn't leave me as sore as the other, but it's the 3rd day after and I'm more sore than ever! It's never hurt so good.

[Ronnie Rowland]

I assume you are talking about the 365 and 405 sets when you say I only need one heavy squat. I only did that cause I felt the jump from 225 to 405 was to big. If I'm misundersanding what you're saying please clarify. As for the info on my lower back, that makes total sense. As I mentioned, my back did feel much better, and based off your info it makes sense as to why (no superstes/pre-exhaustion). Oh, and I saw that there was a type-o in my post. I meant to say that I left my belt on, not my bely. Maybe now it makes more sense. I was worried that doing that workout wouldn't leave me as sore as the other, but it's the 3rd day after and I'm more sore than ever! It's never hurt so good.

Good to here. You simply cannot go wrong doing straight sets!!!!!!!

I changed your scheme a bit below:

Squat:
2 Warm-up sets (may want to change to 3 sets)
1)135 x 8 (Make it 12 reps)
2)225 x 8

5 working sets
1) 365 x 8 (stopping 1 rep shy of good failure)-"PREP SET"
405 x 8 (meant for this to be low rep set, but had more than 6 in me)-Add more weight)
365 x 8 to good failure
355 x 8 to good failure
225 x 12 to good failure

[green22]

I dont think its overtraining. Looks about right to me. Remember legs are hard work that why not many have them. bust your ass and you'll be glad you did.