when doing barbell rows....?

do you bend completely over making your upper body parallel to the floor, or do you bend over making your body 45+ degrees angle form the floor?

By not completely bent over I mean as illustrated in these photos( sometimes people stand up even straighter):

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/wat...ntoverrow1.jpg

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/wat...ntoverrow2.jpg


And by completely bent over (Arnold/ Franco style) I mean like these photos:

http://www.schwarzenegger.it/gallery...lery4/m437.jpg
http://www.schwarzenegger.it/gallery...lery4/m436.jpg

I do them like the dude in the first set of photos. But since Aronold is doing them another way... I should probably reconsider my approach. lol

set an incline bench up in front of you and rest your forehead on the top of the bench. takes all the stress off your back and allows you to isolate the muscle more.

I do both, also when I lower the bar my back becomes parallel to the floor and when the bar comes up my back is bent at a 45 degree angle so I get more of a stretch when doing the exercise.

When Im on the pull I go up to 45 and when I let it down parallel or close to it.

so basically you lift it with you body at 45 degre angle for better rane of motion...and let it go down to point at which your body is close to paralell..to allow a good stretch. yeah...with heavier weights i do them like that too..i try to stay as parallel as possible but sometimes i gotta stand a lil more upright in certain parts of the movement to cmplete the set. Most ppl i see at the gym start 45 degree..finish 45/45+ degree angle and it limits the reange of motion so drastically. I have done them both ways....paralel in training..other too see why otherd do it...i feel them in same area..they feel a little different..but parallel feels so muc better. AS far are usuing an incline bench..yeah..good isolatory movment...but I don't come to the gym to rest..i want as much stress on my back as possible....staning bent over barbell rows hits the lower back as well..always a goodie.

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Originally Posted by yungfaceb3

so basically you lift it with you body at 45 degre angle for better rane of motion...and let it go down to point at which your body is close to paralell..to allow a good stretch. yeah...with heavier weights i do them like that too..i try to stay as parallel as possible but sometimes i gotta stand a lil more upright in certain parts of the movement to cmplete the set. Most ppl i see at the gym start 45 degree..finish 45/45+ degree angle and it limits the reange of motion so drastically. I have done them both ways....paralel in training..other too see why otherd do it...i feel them in same area..they feel a little different..but parallel feels so muc better. AS far are usuing an incline bench..yeah..good isolatory movment...but I don't come to the gym to rest..i want as much stress on my back as possible....staning bent over barbell rows hits the lower back as well..always a goodie.

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rest? i guess youve never tried to isolate the bb row before. try 135 for 8 without any momentum or cheating, the last word you'll use to describe the exercise is rest.

Im with ya yungface, plus I cant get the contraction on the bench cause it hit the underside.

Let me beigin by saying that not everyone needs a bench to have good form and eliminate momentum and cheating. I think one of the problems with contemporary bodybuilding is that poepl take these easy ass ways out without attempting to perfect the basic, superior, core exercises that are the backbone of bodybuilding. On the bench my range of motion is greatly limited as well as the ability to do extra reps after fatiguing. The bar tends to hit the bench as green so wisely stated..and thus I am unable to hit the area that is one of the most important parts of the muscular contraction. Plus...the lower back work done with barbell rows is second only to specefic isolatory lower back exercises and possibly heavy squats depending on stature. FRank Zane used to have a lagging lower back, and what did he do to bring it up?.....he put aside the bench supported rows he was accustmed to and did standing bent-over barbell rows and his lower back became great..he even stated that his entire back from top to bottom benefited from this transition. As far trying 135 for 8 reps without momentum or cheating....I don't think that is very dificult whatsoever. Using an incline nech as you specified 135 would probably only be my first set of about 15 reps...but then I would probably go back to doing them standing because as every other time i tried them on the bench....the range of motion was so limited it was ridicullous. And as far as standing parallel and performing them...lol...135 would be just as..if not moreso...easy and My body would never move or utilize momemtum at all whatsoever. So let me summarize... Standing bent over barbell rows: More range of motion, works wayyy more muscles including lower back!, can gradually shift into forced reps on last sets for good finish (optional.) Incline bench barbell rows: limited range of motion....works no lower back or supporting muscles. Must use less weight, does not hit upper back as much, no option of forced reps.

Standing bent over barbell rows > Incline becnh barbell rows

Quote:

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Originally Posted by yungfaceb3

Let me beigin by saying that not everyone needs a bench to have good form and eliminate momentum and cheating. I think one of the problems with contemporary bodybuilding is that poepl take these easy ass ways out without attempting to perfect the basic, superior, core exercises that are the backbone of bodybuilding. On the bench my range of motion is greatly limited as well as the ability to do extra reps after fatiguing. The bar tends to hit the bench as green so wisely stated..and thus I am unable to hit the area that is one of the most important parts of the muscular contraction. Plus...the lower back work done with barbell rows is second only to specefic isolatory lower back exercises and possibly heavy squats depending on stature. FRank Zane used to have a lagging lower back, and what did he do to bring it up?.....he put aside the bench supported rows he was accustmed to and did standing bent-over barbell rows and his lower back became great..he even stated that his entire back from top to bottom benefited from this transition. As far trying 135 for 8 reps without momentum or cheating....I don't think that is very dificult whatsoever. Using an incline nech as you specified 135 would probably only be my first set of about 15 reps...but then I would probably go back to doing them standing because as every other time i tried them on the bench....the range of motion was so limited it was ridicullous. And as far as standing parallel and performing them...lol...135 would be just as..if not moreso...easy and My body would never move or utilize momemtum at all whatsoever. So let me summarize... Standing bent over barbell rows: More range of motion, works wayyy more muscles including lower back!, can gradually shift into forced reps on last sets for good finish (optional.) Incline bench barbell rows: limited range of motion....works no lower back or supporting muscles. Must use less weight, does not hit upper back as much, no option of forced reps.

Standing bent over barbell rows > Incline becnh barbell rows

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ive been training 19 years so contemporary bbing trends dont really affect me - i utilize all training methods to progress and training cycles where strict form and longer tempo periods usually result in great hypertrophy phases. you and the other guy dont realize what exercise im talking about. you dont hit the bench when you do this - if the incline bench is facing forward and the bench is brought up to a 50 degree angle and you stand behind it, bent over, head resting on the top of the incline bench, you most certainly do not hit the bench. dont use the exercise, its cool. dont try and say its an ineffective muscle builder as i stole it from charles glass. i think he has a clue as to what builds muscle, considering his track record.

phil heath put it best, he said something like i can bb row 405 for 8 but i feel it and gain off it doing 225 for 12 with strict tempo.

i use deadlifts for my lower back so eliminating secondary and support muscles to isolate the lats works for me.

i try to be closer to the arnold form than the other guys, however when i would go up to a heavy weight for me and just a few reps, i will definately cheat a tad to get the reps out.

It looks like Arnold is using the old school joe weider cement weights… that’s awesome!

I do understand what kind of exercise you are talking about. I have done bb rows witha bench..just as you have described a swell as other similar angles of incline. Did I feel it?..yes. But simply put it limits the range of motion. Charles glass is hands down one of the greatest bodybuilidng trainers/minds of all time, but at the same time just because he says something doesnt mean it works the best. I read an aticle by him about 2 years ago in some fitness magazine about how to bring up every area of the back, and I followed his recomended stuff. Did my back gorw?...yes...did each exercise help the areas he speceifed they would... yes...but did it compare to my previous back training based on personal expriances, research, and training sessions with different cometitive bodybuilders?....HELL NO! I went back to doing my thing and my back exploded in every fashion i wanted it to. I see the bench rows as better done with dumbells following the standing bent over barbell rows to really blast the back but by no means a superior exercise or substitute .Maybe for compeition training and the bringign up of specefic areas of speceific msucles glass's methods are unsurpassed, but when it comes to building the foundation and building muscle FAST..imma go with Schwarzenegger, Columbo, Yates, Coleman, Cutler, Warren, Zane, and Jackson...among others.(all proponents of bent over barbell rows)...and train with focus on quality of contrction. And about lifting less weight with better form being better....i agree..i have always promoted quality over quantity in bodybuillding which is why I am very strict with bb rows. I only use momentum (purposely) too get few extra reps on last set when I'm doing them heavy. (kind of like the "neccesary" cheating in cheat curls....done in moderation and to gain extra power and size.) I also do lot of lower back work, in fact my deadlift is my strongest exercise, but hitting it with barbell rows is still beneficial and has added much to my lower back over the years .And in promoting my quality over quantity I still support standing bent over barbell rows because they over a greater range of motion= better contraction= more quality contraction=more growth=superior exercise.

i do 45 degree rows..I do alternate b/w wide & narrow grip. I wouldn't mind doing 45 degree, parallel to the deck, or incline bench rows..just more variety to add to my workouts.