empty stomach cardio straight to weight lifting

[Phate]

I'm in kind of a pickle and i'd like some opinions on what to do. My gym opens at 530 in the morning and i've been going every morning when it opens and doing cardio on an empty stomach. I'm in high school so i have to leave there by 715 to get to school.

My problem is that i have to many activities after school to get back to the gym so how can i do cardio on an empty stomach and then workout without going catabolic/losing stamina during workout

i was thinking about drinking a protein shake with 30-40g of protein before the cardio, then some meat and glycogen after the cardio before i start my workout, and finishing with a 50-60g protein shake after workout

any opinions would be helpful

[sager85]

I'd do cardio then Protein shake.. Give u some carbs and pros which will result in energy. Also drink one right after the workout IMO..

[kaberle_15]

Weights before cardio

[green22]

If you cant go back to the gym for the weights after school then ya need to eat a good breakfast do your weight training then hit some cardio after your weights. Weight training on an empty stomach is not the best idea, least if your trying to have good workouts.

[Narkissos]

I'm in kind of a pickle and i'd like some opinions on what to do. My gym opens at 530 in the morning and i've been going every morning when it opens and doing cardio on an empty stomach. I'm in high school so i have to leave there by 715 to get to school.

My problem is that i have to many activities after school to get back to the gym so how can i do cardio on an empty stomach and then workout without going catabolic/losing stamina during workout

i was thinking about drinking a protein shake with 30-40g of protein before the cardio, then some meat and glycogen after the cardio before i start my workout, and finishing with a 50-60g protein shake after workout

any opinions would be helpful

Consume a pro/carb meal prior to hitting the gym.

Do weights-first...and cardio after.

/end

-CNS

[AandF6969]

Horrible to do cardio before weights.

You're burning glycogen, which is the fuel you use for an effective weight workout. Do weights, use glycogen, then do cardio... you'll be burning mostly pure fat.

[MFT81]

Everyone after Sager85's advice

X2.

[Phate]

thats what i was thinking at first, the only problem i have is that if i workout hen do cardio i won't be getting anything to help my muscles rebuild for an hour after my workout, won't that hinder the gains

also, how long after cardio on an empty stomach should i wait to eat if i'm not going to be doing weights until later in the day

[Narkissos]

thats what i was thinking at first, the only problem i have is that if i workout hen do cardio i won't be getting anything to help my muscles rebuild for an hour after my workout, won't that hinder the gains

No..

Muscles don't magically melt away.

If you eat as you should after the workout..and tru-out the day, you'll be good-to-go.

also, how long after cardio on an empty stomach should i wait to eat if i'm not going to be doing weights until later in the day

I'd say 6 hours.

There was a study i read some years ago which actually plotted the amount of time after a cardio session where the cardio session negatively affected the weight-training session.

I can't recall the exact numerical value stated however.

-CNS

[gtrawee]

Never do cardio or any workout on an empty stomach (fasting state) not only can become catabolic but overstimulates sympathetic nervous system, adrenals go into overdrive producing excess cortisol--end result...more fat, less muscle.

[Phate]

not true, those things happen at high intensity on an empty stomach, but at low intensity fat is the primary energy source, though you never workout on an empty stomach

[gtrawee]

Intensity has nothing to do with sympathetic response to stress. You need at least a couple hundred calories before any type of cardio. I think you are referring to aerobic and anaerobic preferences of energy.

[Phate]

your right i was, do you have any studies or articles to back this up, not trying to flame or challenge, you've just sparked my curiousity and i'm here to learn in the first place so it would be a good tangent to go on

[Lemonada8]

well i guess i'm disagreeing w/ most people here... cardio first thing in the morning, as long as ur at about 60-70% max heartrate, you burn mainly fat... if u dotn eat and do cardio, it will help minimize the glycogen burning.... but definately after ur cardio, eat!!!!! and dont be afraid to eat some oatmeal, or good carbs... but thats part of ur diet... which u didnt ask for, so.. wont get into that... then workout after ur school activities... cause then A) u'll do cardio when ur natty test and such are at their highest levels, and will wake u up for class, and B) u can sleep more...

[MuscleScience]

Never do cardio or any workout on an empty stomach (fasting state) not only can become catabolic but overstimulates sympathetic nervous system, adrenals go into overdrive producing excess cortisol--end result...more fat, less muscle.

Cortisol is at its highest levels in the morning anyway. You would really only have a problem with cortisol if you didnt maintain a proper diet or lower "stresses" and keep a chronic state of stress. For example when I would help test endurance athletes to test there lactate processing. We would have them not eat for about 8 hours over night and then run the hell out of them and measure metabolic byproducts. In the literature and or in our findings cortisol never caused more than normal breakdown of amino acids. AA's only accounted for about 4% of total energy expenditure during exercise. The same as it is in a carb loaded athlete. Cortisol levels were never more than within the normal variance associated with endurance athletes which also fell in the realm of the typical college age person. Cortisol in the short term is apparently overrated. Chronically high cortisol levels can have real negative aspects to athletes. For most high level athletes they have there cortisol levels check very frequently, its a great indicator of overtraining.

I still am not sold on the am cardio on and empty stomach. There seems to be more anecdotal evidence than empirical evidence that its more effective in losing bodyfat. The body of evidence right now doesnt really make a good case against it though.

[Forgiveness]

You guys are getting pretty technical on a high school kid who's just looking to make some gains.

I say just freak what you feel, man. If you feel like you're too hungry to get a good workout, then eat more. If cardio before weights feels like a better workout to you than weights before cardio, then keep it that way.

The kid is getting in the gym at 5:30 every morning. I don't think he's gonna get fat and sloppy no matter how he arranges his exercises.

[MuscleScience]

You guys are getting pretty technical on a high school kid who's just looking to make some gains.

I say just freak what you feel, man. If you feel like you're too hungry to get a good workout, then eat more. If cardio before weights feels like a better workout to you than weights before cardio, then keep it that way.

The kid is getting in the gym at 5:30 every morning. I don't think he's gonna get fat and sloppy no matter how he arranges his exercises.

His gains will suck if he does cardio in the morning without eating and then goes and hits the weights. Thats what we are all saying, just because feel something dont mean its right or is good for you.

[kickinit]

I'm in kind of a pickle and i'd like some opinions on what to do. My gym opens at 530 in the morning and i've been going every morning when it opens and doing cardio on an empty stomach. I'm in high school so i have to leave there by 715 to get to school.

My problem is that i have to many activities after school to get back to the gym so how can i do cardio on an empty stomach and then workout without going catabolic/losing stamina during workout

i was thinking about drinking a protein shake with 30-40g of protein before the cardio, then some meat and glycogen after the cardio before i start my workout, and finishing with a 50-60g protein shake after workout

any opinions would be helpful

This is actually pretty common with big name sports and pro sports. Im not a big fan of it and think you can do as much damage as good. Granted if I was going this type of stuff I would invest in PASTA the night before..

A little cardio before working out is good, maybe like a run, a swim etc.. Personally though I hit the weights first and after when your all pumped up, you ease your body back down with cardio, just what I like to do take it for what it is.

[AandF6969]

His gains will suck if he does cardio in the morning without eating and then goes and hits the weights. Thats what we are all saying, just because feel something dont mean its right or is good for you.

Agreed... if he wants shitty results, by all means do cardio before weights, but physiologically it is much, MUCH better to do it the other way around.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Consume a pro/carb meal prior to hitting the gym.

Do weights-first...and cardio after.

/end

-CNS

I'll second that!

[Phate]

thx guys, btw, i perfer the "technical" stuff as forgiveness was calling it. just because i'm in high school doesn't mean i'm retarded, in fact i'm going to a region UIL competition for biology, chemistry, and physics tommorrow, so get as in depth as you can and please don't dumb it down cause i'm a "high school kid", if i need clarification i'll ask but i haven't had trouble with anything ya'll have said so far

[Lemonada8]

its really not that technical..... lol truthfully its not that hard... just more indepth than some people realize...

[Phate]

personally i like the in depth stuff, id rather someone tell me to not do something because it could cause a certain side effect because of blah blah, then for someone to just say don't do it, i like to know why things happen and it pisses me off when someone tells people to not be so "technical" because i'm in high school, seriously, wtf, i've been taking college physics and chemistry classes since i was a sophomore and some new guy is telling people to dumb it down for me cause i haven't graduated yet

[MuscleScience]

personally i like the in depth stuff, id rather someone tell me to not do something because it could cause a certain side effect because of blah blah, then for someone to just say don't do it, i like to know why things happen and it pisses me off when someone tells people to not be so "technical" because i'm in high school, seriously, wtf, i've been taking college physics and chemistry classes since i was a sophomore and some new guy is telling people to dumb it down for me cause i haven't graduated yet

You will find your answers at about 1:35 of this video......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hGvQ...eature=related

[Braveheart04]

I am also in favor of weights before cardio. I know that there are a lot of people that are sold on the idea of cardio first, and it might very well work best for them. I have found that cardio before weights really zaps me. I like doing them back to back on occasion. I also do not have time to really eat anything before weights, it may or may not be the best thing to do, but it really hasn't effected me negatively. Thing is, train in whatever time schedule you have, remember, training whenever you can is much better than not training at all.

[Phate]

thx for the replies guys, btw, musclescience, what was the video for about not being able to handle the truth? i'm kinda confused because i agree with what you and narkissos have said 100% and have been implementing it with great results in my morning workouts

[MuscleScience]

thx for the replies guys, btw, musclescience, what was the video for about not being able to handle the truth? i'm kinda confused because i agree with what you and narkissos have said 100% and have been implementing it with great results in my morning workouts

It was a joke buddy.....not just specifically for you but for all to enjoy.

[Phate]

lol, i thought so, i just wasn't sure cause i did kinda go into a bitchy rant about being called a high schooler, that was my bad, btw, thanks for posting that study, it was really interesting,

how did you test what they burned and the percentages of each

and how what percentage of what they burned was fat/glycogen etc.

[MuscleScience]

lol, i thought so, i just wasn't sure cause i did kinda go into a bitchy rant about being called a high schooler, that was my bad, btw, thanks for posting that study, it was really interesting,

how did you test what they burned and the percentages of each

and how what percentage of what they burned was fat/glycogen etc.

Its pretty easy actually, with the metabolic cart the patient breaths into and air exchanger. The machine has a mixing chamber that can calculate exactly how much O2 and CO2 are coming in and out. The ratio of in versus out is calculated this is call the Respiratory Exchange Ratio (RER). Based on the amount of CO2 that is being respired out you can calculate exactly what energy system someone is at with every breath, by basically counting the Carbon Atoms that the detector detects. Because we know the chemistry of fat metabolism and its end products we also know the the same for sugars being burned.

Any blood samples we get we usually just start a IV and will drip at whatever interval we predetermine. Now though they have meters for things like blood lactate levels, CK and cortisol that are the size of blood glucose meters and cost roughly the same. So now we usually use those, because with an IV we have to have a RN to administer the IV and monitor it.

[Lemonada8]

Its pretty easy actually, with the metabolic cart the patient breaths into and air exchanger. The machine has a mixing chamber that can calculate exactly how much O2 and CO2 are coming in and out. The ratio of in versus out is calculated this is call the Respiratory Exchange Ratio (RER). Based on the amount of CO2 that is being respired out you can calculate exactly what energy system someone is at with every breath, by basically counting the Carbon Atoms that the detector detects. Because we know the chemistry of fat metabolism and its end products we also know the the same for sugars being burned.

Any blood samples we get we usually just start a IV and will drip at whatever interval we predetermine. Now though they have meters for things like blood lactate levels, CK and cortisol that are the size of blood glucose meters and cost roughly the same. So now we usually use those, because with an IV we have to have a RN to administer the IV and monitor it.

god i hate those tests... its so freakin hard to breathe easy! lol... and u start drooling all over the place... totally freakin hot! esp when a hot chick is administering the test...

[MuscleScience]

god i hate those tests... its so freakin hard to breathe easy! lol... and u start drooling all over the place... totally freakin hot! esp when a hot chick is administering the test...

You think that sucks have you ever done a Wingate test? Its an anaerobic power test, where you basically pedal on a stationary bike for thirty seconds with high resistance. It is almost a giving that you will get someone to throw up. Have every time we tested teams.

[Lemonada8]

yeah.... NOT FUN! i cant remember my max power... it was something like.... 1200 watts... i got off the damn bike and couldnt walk... then i had to go to football practice... NOT FUN!!!!

[Phate]

thx for the reply, exactly what i was looking for, if you don't mind me asking, what type of professor/doctor are you and what is your title?

[Lemonada8]

thx for the reply, exactly what i was looking for, if you don't mind me asking, what type of professor/doctor are you and what is your title?

who?

[MuscleScience]

thx for the reply, exactly what i was looking for, if you don't mind me asking, what is your profession/title?

I was and exercise physiologist/rehab for about 3 to 4 years. Now I am in a different trade. I pretty much did mostly science experiments and testing elite level athletes. Some weekend warriors to it was fun but not very lucrative.

[Sir Lifts-a-lot]

drop out of school. There no more activities to get in the way!





Sorry for the dumb comment.

[Phate]

sadly that's impossible, and i like school which is good since i have 12-16 years of college ahead of me

[Bastard Samurai]

Sorry, don't mean to hijack...but just to clarify things (I'm very interested as well) the consensus is weights before cardio (if doing it back to back) but if you have the time then am cardio on empty stomach and pm weights? thanks...(sorry Phate!)

[Panzerfaust]

Consume a pro/carb meal prior to hitting the gym.

Do weights-first...and cardio after.

/end

-CNS

Absolutely exactly what I was going to say!

[Phate]

Sorry, don't mean to hijack...but just to clarify things (I'm very interested as well) the consensus is weights before cardio (if doing it back to back) but if you have the time then am cardio on empty stomach and pm weights? thanks...(sorry Phate!)

no problem bro, that's not a hijack, though i really wouldn't care anyway, to answer your question, yes and yes