lagging chest help! pics included!

[baseball_guy]

not to sure if ur overtrainging bro but u sure as hell are over typing... u got some novels for ur posts

[naturalsux]

I only turned on the arrogance and over acting confidence bits in response to the "your overtraining...your overtraining....your overtraining..." bullshyt that everyone so condescendingly through at me without once regarding my questions with any respect or thought. If you look at how i originally made the post there was no arrogance at all. I only made the arroagnce to make them mad because even though i am being 100% totally honest in all of my claims..these "less is more" activists get so upset because they do not believe in the principle that hard training = hard results! So i apologize for my arrogance ...it was purposely overplayed...i am just tired of all these 5 set/10 minute workout kids telling me i am ovetraining when i am making far greater progress than them...it is annoying..can't someone post a thread on here and get there questions answered for once without people trying to break them down?..i mean damm!

I feel sorry for you, your so ignorant.

why cant you just shut up and try something different. learn something about intensity and use it. nobody said shit about 5 sets and 10 min workouts. i said 6-10, not counting warm ups and it takes me 30-45 min.

[Amorphic]

I feel sorry for you, your so ignorant.

why cant you just shut up and try something different. learn something about intensity and use it. nobody said shit about 5 sets and 10 min workouts. i said 6-10, not counting warm ups and it takes me 30-45 min.

+1..

[wanabeMASSIVE!]

+10 and my hand is hurting just looking at all the writing your doing, if i wrote that much i wouldn't have to workout forearms at all, they'd be as strong as my legs by now

+11 lol

[newahnald]

-sigh- Yungface, ignorant he may be, but at the same time he does have a point. He said it was over and he has not responded, but you are all still at it ever so intently.

This only makes you all look foolish and if you really want people to see his ignorance then stop doing excatly what he clowned you for doing.

In other words step off of his nutts, it really does seem wierd that you all care so much about him.

[moregunsthanroses]

Most people go through life looking for things to get pissed off about... ( I do it at times when I know I shouldn't...

I can sorta see how yung got pissed off.. don't get me wrong here I'm not saying he was justified. You seemed semi reasonable in your last post....

[moregunsthanroses]

I tend to overtrain myself a bit as well... heres my advice your not gonna listen try droping 1 or 2 of your exercises.. and switching up barbell with dumbells, week to week.. Start with incline some days others flat... This is fairly common knowledge you most likely know but whatever whats do I have to lose?

[gettingBIGGERfast]

The only reason I got irritated is because everyone threw out the played out "overtraining" BS before I EVER stated anything my chest routine or training. There was absolutely NOTHING for them to base the answer of "overtraining" on and I found it both annoying and ignorant. I know that overtraining is potentially the biggest problem facing bodybuilding now, but at the same time it is not the cause of EVERY problem. The way I see it, if you do not have an answer...then keep your opinion to yourself. The fact of the matter is nobody tried to answer any questions I had and offered any advice whatsoever with the exception of a few minor tips and considerations, but rather they attempted to discredit me and make irrelevent and erroneous accusations.

But I mean this is damm internet forum and I am not as evidently emotionally and socially attatched and dependant on is obviously the case with some of you so I do not take it seriously. I tell it how it is and couldn't care less what any of you choose to believe or think about it if is not an honest attempt to aid me or answer my questions. I came here for unbiased advice and experiances but instead got BS. I respect all of your opinions and advice if they are genuine, but I am not here to impress, convince, or even teach any of you. I came with the harmless request for information with intent to listen and apply and/or exchange information, and that what this forum is here for. But since you are are unable to provide anything information wise and I do not share the same "social value" aspects of this internet forum ( I find my social values in the company of real people around me ) this thread is officially ( and not a moment too soon) brought to a close. I am sorry if I irritated, upset, or annoyed anyone, and thank you for all your information but unfortunately you all had nothing too offer.

uhhhh, you say that everyone threw out overtraining with nothing to base it on. The very first person to say over-training stated very clearly that he based his opinion on your other posts.

You say you came with the intent to listen, but that went out the window pretty f*ckin fast, didn't it.

Just get over yourself dude

[KZRSOIZE]

Kids playing on the internet, passed your bed time.........

[FallenWyvern]

You should try posting on bodybuilding.com People there are more your age and more understanding.

[yungfaceb3]

-sigh- Yungface, ignorant he may be, but at the same time he does have a point. He said it was over and he has not responded, but you are all still at it ever so intently.

This only makes you all look foolish and if you really want people to see his ignorance then stop doing excatly what he clowned you for doing.

In other words step off of his nutts, it really does seem wierd that you all care so much about him.

Is it not obvious how they feel about me?....

[lotaquestions]

there actually is some advice in there you just have to read through the flaming, on both sides

[bbminded]

Try Cutlers workout the stretch first then power lifts!!

[BabyGravy]

I cant beleive this dude.... he actually just irrotated the sh*t out of me....
all this talk and talk and talk and not one word about he's pics. sounds like he's scared we'll flame him for what he really looks like. But according to him he shouldnt be???
"I am not here to impress, convince, or even teach any of you." ?????well then you know what? F*k off then.

[ChuckLee]

Still waiting for the pics

[Ajc330]

this is my third maybe fourth post requesting pics so i can try to help

[yungfaceb3]

[newahnald]

Lol you stupid man.

But they did walk right into it...after I even told them they were.

But just so you know I ain't even on you like that regardless if everyone else is...I just find this entire thread humorous.

[ChuckLee]

Ah ok now I see the pic. That in your avy are you. Look good. I'm the one in my avy too.

[ChrisJL]

Good luck!

[yungfaceb3]

lol..that is crazy chucklee. I am actually an extremely big arnold fan and my close second favorite bodybuilder is lee preist. I admire and respect many other bodybuilders...but only these too am i a sincere fan based both upon there physique..training style..and what they bring to the table. If you were truelly your avy pic....and myself my own avy pic..lol...i would happy both with myself and for you!

[Narkissos]

It always amazes me when people will come on an open forum with thousands and thousands of members, post a question, then get an attitude when they don't like some of the responses. In actuality, if you found a forum where everyone agreed with you, how would your initial question be answered? It would seem if you had the answer yourself you would not have needed to post the question. Basically it seems that people tend to say "I don't know what the answer is, but I know that's not it". People post their opinion in an attempt to help you with your question, how dare they?

Doesn't amaze me.

People tend to like to have they hands held.

The fact of the matter is that: "in bodybuilding, everything works... but nothing works forever."

I have to give my former coach, Carl Moore, credit for the above quote.

Nothing works forever.

This sub-200 kid is ranting and raving about the magnificence of his way of training solely because he is yet to reach a plateau.

He pisses on the old timers who have reached said plateau... Dismissing their inability to surpass what may be legitimately insurmountable, as laziness.

This is the ignorance of inexperience.

This.. is just plain ignorance.

That being said... I'll reference Chad Waterbury.

Chad purports that should a plateau be reached, try something different.

Nothing monumental there...right?

Yet... Ignorant bodybuilders, much like the thread originator, opt to continue in a similar vein.

The aforementioned 'vein' in this instance, refers to exponential increases in training volume.

What the thread originator fails to see, something which can be attributed to his arrogance-induced blindness, is that it's time for a change.

While the body as a homogenous system responds to systemic stresses... Some areas may react more favourably to certain stimuli, as compared to others.

Transposing this into the most simple terms, this denotes that:

"High volume may work for legs, but it may not work for pecs"
"High reps may work for calve, but it may not work for back"

How can preferred/required stimuli be ascertained?

Through experimentation.

Ergo, thread originator, if a guy on the board tells you "you are over-training"... and you are, as you are currently, not experiencing the growth you desire from your current manner of training... the intelligent thing to do would be to change your manner of training.

[*shouts*]

GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS... YOU KNOW NOTHING!

[/*shouts*]

No flame intended of course.

I'm a high-volume, high frequency trainer.

I've always been.

I've been involved in this sport for 10 years.

My pec is my genetic limitation...

But, because everything else grew in response to high volume and frequency, i continued to train my pecs in this manner.

When did i start to make my best pectoral gains?

When i switched my pec training to moderate frequency, very low volume.

I switched from 16 sets twice per week.. to 4 sets twice per week.

My pecs started to grow.

Everything else was still trained in the usual high volume manner... twice per week.

But, my pecs started to grow.

Lesson?

Get your head out of your ass.

You don't know everything.

Don't ask for advice if you don't want it.

And.. oh yea... You're over-training.


-Narkissos

Regional-level IFBB-affiliated bodybuilder
Fitness Consultant
Paid Author

[ChuckLee]

lol..that is crazy chucklee. I am actually an extremely big arnold fan and my close second favorite bodybuilder is lee preist. I admire and respect many other bodybuilders...but only these too am i a sincere fan based both upon there physique..training style..and what they bring to the table. If you were truelly your avy pic....and myself my own avy pic..lol...i would happy both with myself and for you!

Of course they are two of the best bodybuilders EVER. I've read Lee's back competing in a few months as well

[Amorphic]

Doesn't amaze me.

People tend to like to have they hands held.

The fact of the matter is that: "in bodybuilding, everything works... but nothing works forever."

I have to give my former coach, Carl Moore, credit for the above quote.

Nothing works forever.

This sub-200 kid is ranting and raving about the magnificence of his way of training solely because he is yet to reach a plateau.

He pisses on the old timers who have reached said plateau... Dismissing their inability to surpass what may be legitimately insurmountable, as laziness.

This is the ignorance of inexperience.

This.. is just plain ignorance.

That being said... I'll reference Chad Waterbury.

Chad purports that should a plateau be reached, try something different.

Nothing monumental there...right?

Yet... Ignorant bodybuilders, much like the thread originator, opt to continue in a similar vein.

The aforementioned 'vein' in this instance, refers to exponential increases in training volume.

What the thread originator fails to see, something which can be attributed to his arrogance-induced blindness, is that it's time for a change.

While the body as a homogenous system responds to systemic stresses... Some areas may react more favourably to certain stimuli, as compared to others.

Transposing this into the most simple terms, this denotes that:

"High volume may work for legs, but it may not work for pecs"
"High reps may work for calve, but it may not work for back"

How can preferred/required stimuli be ascertained?

Through experimentation.

Ergo, thread originator, if a guy on the board tells you "you are over-training"... and you are, as you are currently, not experiencing the growth you desire from your current manner of training... the intelligent thing to do would be to change your manner of training.

[*shouts*]

GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS... YOU KNOW NOTHING!

[/*shouts*]

No flame intended of course.

I'm a high-volume, high frequency trainer.

I've always been.

I've been involved in this sport for 10 years.

My pec is my genetic limitation...

But, because everything else grew in response to high volume and frequency, i continued to train my pecs in this manner.

When did i start to make my best pectoral gains?

When i switched my pec training to moderate frequency, very low volume.

I switched from 16 sets twice per week.. to 4 sets twice per week.

My pecs started to grow.

Everything else was still trained in the usual high volume manner... twice per week.

But, my pecs started to grow.

Lesson?

Get your head out of your ass.

You don't know everything.

Don't ask for advice if you don't want it.

And.. oh yea... You're over-training.


-Narkissos

Regional-level IFBB-affiliated bodybuilder
Fitness Consultant
Paid Author

bump for nark. great post.

[ChuckLee]

Doesn't amaze me.

People tend to like to have they hands held.

The fact of the matter is that: "in bodybuilding, everything works... but nothing works forever."

I have to give my former coach, Carl Moore, credit for the above quote.

Nothing works forever.

This sub-200 kid is ranting and raving about the magnificence of his way of training solely because he is yet to reach a plateau.

He pisses on the old timers who have reached said plateau... Dismissing their inability to surpass what may be legitimately insurmountable, as laziness.

This is the ignorance of inexperience.

This.. is just plain ignorance.

That being said... I'll reference Chad Waterbury.

Chad purports that should a plateau be reached, try something different.

Nothing monumental there...right?

Yet... Ignorant bodybuilders, much like the thread originator, opt to continue in a similar vein.

The aforementioned 'vein' in this instance, refers to exponential increases in training volume.

What the thread originator fails to see, something which can be attributed to his arrogance-induced blindness, is that it's time for a change.

While the body as a homogenous system responds to systemic stresses... Some areas may react more favourably to certain stimuli, as compared to others.

Transposing this into the most simple terms, this denotes that:

"High volume may work for legs, but it may not work for pecs"
"High reps may work for calve, but it may not work for back"

How can preferred/required stimuli be ascertained?

Through experimentation.

Ergo, thread originator, if a guy on the board tells you "you are over-training"... and you are, as you are currently, not experiencing the growth you desire from your current manner of training... the intelligent thing to do would be to change your manner of training.

[*shouts*]

GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS... YOU KNOW NOTHING!

[/*shouts*]

No flame intended of course.

I'm a high-volume, high frequency trainer.

I've always been.

I've been involved in this sport for 10 years.

My pec is my genetic limitation...

But, because everything else grew in response to high volume and frequency, i continued to train my pecs in this manner.

When did i start to make my best pectoral gains?

When i switched my pec training to moderate frequency, very low volume.

I switched from 16 sets twice per week.. to 4 sets twice per week.

My pecs started to grow.

Everything else was still trained in the usual high volume manner... twice per week.

But, my pecs started to grow.

Lesson?

Get your head out of your ass.

You don't know everything.

Don't ask for advice if you don't want it.

And.. oh yea... You're over-training.


-Narkissos

Regional-level IFBB-affiliated bodybuilder
Fitness Consultant
Paid Author

Great Nark, as ever.
So here a question merges: I have the same genetic limit in my arms, I've been training them in many different manners, but in any case they don't grow as the other parts of my body. So, choering to your post, do you thing I am IN ANY CASE overtraining them? Should I try to cut the sets? Because I've already switched from 9 sets for bis and 9 for tris to 6 sets per each. Because I was afraid I was in fact overtraining them...but I didn't notice any positive change yet...I'm pretty depressed and I'm starting to resign and take the things how they come. The first thread I started in AR was just referring to this problem of mine.
Finally, I suppose that I'm juicing only to see my arms grow, but this process is taking a lot of time bro.

CL

[Narkissos]

Great Nark, as ever.
So here a question merges: I have the same genetic limit in my arms, I've been training them in many different manners, but in any case they don't grow as the other parts of my body. So, choering to your post, do you thing I am IN ANY CASE overtraining them? Should I try to cut the sets? Because I've already switched from 9 sets for bis and 9 for tris to 6 sets per each. Because I was afraid I was in fact overtraining them...but I didn't notice any positive change yet...I'm pretty depressed and I'm starting to resign and take the things how they come. The first thread I started in AR was just referring to this problem of mine.
Finally, I suppose that I'm juicing only to see my arms grow, but this process is taking a lot of time bro.

CL

For some, it isn't as simple as saying 'do less'... 'or do more'.

It was 'easy' to say this to thread originator, namely because his normative values are fixed... i.e. he's a habitual trainer.

w/ relation to your particular case... me having no knowledge of you, I'd ask:

1. How long did you train your bis/tris w/ 9 sets before switching to 6 sets?

2. When do you train bis/tris? (i.e. on a day of their own? after chest? Back? Shoulders?)

3. How are your arm sessions located in relation to larger bodyparts? (before/after?)

4. How many days in a row do you train the large muscles of your torso?

5. Do you utilize negatives?

6. How is your shoulder/elbow placement? (i.e. Do you allow your deltoids to displace your bis/tris in arm work?)

7. Do you use a full ROM?

8. Do you use momentum on your lifts?

etc. etc.

The combination of factors, and how they interact, matters more than any individual factor (such as the number of sets) alone.

In some cases... It would be advisable to do more where less has failed.

In some cases... it may serve the trainee to prioritize the smaller bodypart over the larger one in a training rotation.

In some cases.. It may serve the trainee to institute mini-cycles within the larger training cycle...thereby facilitating a growth curve.

Growth and Development aren't linear.

Ergo, processes which facilitate such should not be either.

-CNS

[Narkissos]

For some, it isn't as simple as saying 'do less'... 'or do more'.

It was 'easy' to say this to thread originator, namely because his normative values are fixed... i.e. he's a habitual trainer.

w/ relation to your particular case... me having no knowledge of you, I'd ask:

1. How long did you train your bis/tris w/ 9 sets before switching to 6 sets?

2. When do you train bis/tris? (i.e. on a day of their own? after chest? Back? Shoulders?)

3. How are your arm sessions located in relation to larger bodyparts? (before/after?)

4. How many days in a row do you train the large muscles of your torso?

5. Do you utilize negatives?

6. How is your shoulder/elbow placement? (i.e. Do you allow your deltoids to displace your bis/tris in arm work?)

7. Do you use a full ROM?

8. Do you use momentum on your lifts?

etc. etc.

The combination of factors, and how they interact, matters more than any individual factor (such as the number of sets) alone.

In some cases... It would be advisable to do more where less has failed.

In some cases... it may serve the trainee to prioritize the smaller bodypart over the larger one in a training rotation.

In some cases.. It may serve the trainee to institute mini-cycles within the larger training cycle...thereby facilitating a growth curve.

Growth and Development aren't linear.

Ergo, processes which facilitate such should not be either.

-CNS

While we're on the topic of prioritizing, I should say outline the manner by which i attacked my lagging pecs using lower volume.

I worked with a powerlifter during this time.

He had a unique training style.

He always trained biceps before back..and triceps before chest.

This went against everything I'd ever heard w/ relation to training... as larger displaces smaller at the core of all routines.

..or so i thought.

He advised that i prioritize tris to boost the strength of this secondary support musculature... thus enabling me to boost the strength of my primary movers.

A round-about manner of saying: bigger tris = bigger bench.

However we keep hearing terms like 'fatigue' and 'pre-exhaust'... Ergo we assume that training tris first will cause a dip in pressing strength.

I was pleasantly surprised when this didn't happen.

Here was the concept:

Day 1:

Exercise 1: Very Close-grip bench press: 4 sets: 6-10 reps [1 warm-up; 3 worksets]

Exercise 2: Incline Dumbbell Press: 2-3 worksets: 2-4 reps


Day 4:

Exercise 1: Very Close-grip bench press: 4 sets: 6-10 reps [1 warm-up; 3 worksets]

Exercise 2: Flat Dumbbell Press: 2-3 worksets: 2-4 reps


My dumbbell Press weights went up from session to session.. as opposed to down.

I erred on the side of less sets...and less reps.

..and it benefitted.

I dropped negative work completely.

2 reps = 2 reps.. as opposed to 1 rep + 1 assisted rep [which took the set past failure]

Ergo I didn't dip too far into my recuperative ability.

I think this was key for the lagging bodypart such as this.

My tris grew..and my chest thickened noticeably.


Lesson of this story?

When faced with a problem where your solutions fall short... Drop what you think you know, and try something new.

-CNS

[ChuckLee]

For some, it isn't as simple as saying 'do less'... 'or do more'.

It was 'easy' to say this to thread originator, namely because his normative values are fixed... i.e. he's a habitual trainer.

w/ relation to your particular case... me having no knowledge of you, I'd ask:

1. How long did you train your bis/tris w/ 9 sets before switching to 6 sets?

2. When do you train bis/tris? (i.e. on a day of their own? after chest? Back? Shoulders?)

3. How are your arm sessions located in relation to larger bodyparts? (before/after?)

4. How many days in a row do you train the large muscles of your torso?

5. Do you utilize negatives?

6. How is your shoulder/elbow placement? (i.e. Do you allow your deltoids to displace your bis/tris in arm work?)

7. Do you use a full ROM?

8. Do you use momentum on your lifts?

etc. etc.

The combination of factors, and how they interact, matters more than any individual factor (such as the number of sets) alone.

In some cases... It would be advisable to do more where less has failed.

In some cases... it may serve the trainee to prioritize the smaller bodypart over the larger one in a training rotation.

In some cases.. It may serve the trainee to institute mini-cycles within the larger training cycle...thereby facilitating a growth curve.

Growth and Development aren't linear.

Ergo, processes which facilitate such should not be either.

-CNS

1. I've trained for years 3 exercises x 3 sets for each, then switched to 2x3 about 2 months ago

2. Actually I train bis and tris their own in the same day; I train them on mondays, since I'm starting a cutting diet and my carb load day would be sunday, so PB suggested me to train my lacking muscles the day after (I suppose because I'll have more glycogen stores after a carb load)

3. The first day of the week, the bigger muscles come after my arms training

4. My WO split is Mon:bis,tris - Tue:legs - Thu:back,back delts - Fry: pecs,front delts,abs

5. Actually I don't utilize negatives, I do short reps and supersets

6. I try to isolate as much as possible my arms when I work them

7. I try to use a full ROM to isolate lateral tris, brachials bis as well with different kind of exercises

8. If momentum is the complete move from relaxation to contraption, yes I use it.

Thanks a lot Nark, I really apreciate your help.

CL

[novastepp]

paid author, that shit is great.

[ChuckLee]

Bump for nark answer plz

[naturalsux]

Bump for nark answer plz

8. If momentum is the complete move from relaxation to contraption, yes I use it.

momentum is like cheating or swinging the weight using ancillary muscles more so than the one your trying to work.

[MFT81]

So Great to see a shit slinging worthless thread turn into a productive question answering one. Props to Nark

[ChuckLee]

So Great to see a shit slinging worthless thread turn into a productive question answering one. Props to Nark

Truly agreed

[Narkissos]

1. I've trained for years 3 exercises x 3 sets for each, then switched to 2x3 about 2 months ago

Firstly, 'years' is vague... An estimation would be better.

Secondly... What has been your training frequency over these 'years'?

Once weekly?

Twice weekly?

I'd assume you've been training 'em once weekly...as that's the norm on message boards.

I believe that everything should be trained bi-weekly however.

..Manipulating volume according to the individual's training threshold.

So if I had to give a recommendation based solely on this factor, I'd say:

1 exercise... 5 sets (2 warm-up; 3 worksets... utilizing a drop-set on the last work set)... twice weekly.

Workout-A before a pushing muscle (like Pecs)

Work out B.. after a pulling muscle (i.e. Back)

It would require you to re-work your split however.

lol@'re-work your split'

Pornagraphic images of a stripper at a bachelor party always comes to mind when i type that.

2. Actually I train bis and tris their own in the same day; I train them on mondays, since I'm starting a cutting diet and my carb load day would be sunday, so PB suggested me to train my lacking muscles the day after (I suppose because I'll have more glycogen stores after a carb load)

Makes sense... but then again, doesn't.

If you're cutting.. train for maintenance.

Don't confuse goals here.

3. The first day of the week, the bigger muscles come after my arms training

See above

4. My WO split is Mon:bis,tris - Tue:legs - Thu:back,back delts - Fry: pecs,front delts,abs

I'd change this.

What was your split like before?

5. Actually I don't utilize negatives, I do short reps and supersets

re: short reps

Pointless.

If you're training a lagging body part, you train it tru it's entire range of motion.

..'cept for instances when you try to overload the musculature tru the weakest part of the ROM.

...That form of prioritization is generally used by bodybuilders who're mid-contest-prep... trying to 'peak'.

It is combined with a extended ROM exercise... and there is an emphasis on the negative.

Right off the bat, here's one area where you're selling yourself short.

re: supersets

Supersets are 'effective' for short periods of time only.

They're not an effective long term training style for anyone outside of the very highly trained athlete.

VERY highly trained athlete.

re: Negatives

Neglecting negative work is like neglecting brushing your teeth.

'Negative work' does not mean that you load up the bar and do only lowering lifts.

What it does mean however is that you consciously resist on the negative portion of each rep.

...That you dead pause at the point of max stretch (without deloading tension on the target musculature)...and that you explosively return to peak contraction.

6. I try to isolate as much as possible my arms when I work them

Short range reps don't count as isolation mate.

7. I try to use a full ROM to isolate lateral tris, brachials bis as well with different kind of exercises

You lost me here.

Did you not admit to using short reps?

8. If momentum is the complete move from relaxation to contraption, yes I use it.

Thanks a lot Nark, I really apreciate your help.

CL

No.. momentum is the use of 'body english' (i.e. rocking, swaying.. etc.) to get the weight up.

-CNS

[Narkissos]

momentum is like cheating or swinging the weight using ancillary muscles more so than the one your trying to work.

^^Yes.

-CNS

[Narkissos]

paid author, that shit is great.

yep... I get to rant for pay now.

Outside my own forum where I do it for free.. I also contribute to two sites...and i've been offered a contract to ghost-write for another.

I'm not sure if i can take on much more though...My business locally and online take up a shitload of time as is.

..Not that i'm complaining though, I have some really cool clients.

-C

[yungfaceb3]

lol...Nark's attacks on my training inadequacies would have been both well deserved and painful to swallow...IF they actually factual. But in this case...they are not which yields them both irrelevent and incorrect. Lol...I know about platueas and that variation is the only thing too break through them....whoa!...nice way to quote common training knowledge as if it were your own unique wisdom. No shyt if my other body parts respond well to a certain training that doesn't mean that my chest will.....really?...damm....maybe thats why it is considered a "genetic deficiency" because it doesn't respond as well as other body parts. ok...let me go ahead and kill all the other bs you proposed: as for variation...lol...i have done different exercises of different weights..rep ranges....angles...grip widths...barbell....dumbell...cables..machines.... for YEARS varying my training until I found something that works the best. and in my case it has been heavier training with barbell dominant routines in the 12-16 set range ..6-10 rep range...short breaks ..in and out the gym in 45 minutes to an hour. fast..hard..and heavy..the textbook style for a naturally ectomorphic individual as myself. I switch it up VERY regularly and do dumbells more...switch up the angles....orders....rep range....set range...etc. NEVER have i done the same workout twice within at least 5- 6 weeks. I train instictively...i listen to my body. If after 10-12 sets i feel i am done...i call it a day...if at 16+ sets...then i call it a day. I do my own instictive style based on the principles and reccomendations of arnold schwarznegger for a person of my body type and in my situation. andmy chest is GROWING....oh man..ever so quickly. I simply posted this thread to see if anyone had any recpmendations that i had not thought of...but....unfortunately...none of you had anything to offer....nothing personal...you just didn't. So do not get upset....just get educated...I am not the arrogant one...evidently it is you who thinks your advice is helpful to everyone and if not that person is "ignorant." or "blinded." lol....get real kid. I've tried what you said and countless other things already....so it seems to me i am not the "inexperianced" one.

[Narkissos]

lol...Nark's attacks on my training inadequacies would have been both well deserved and painful to swallow...IF they actually factual. But in this case...they are not which yields them both irrelevent and incorrect. Lol...I know about platueas and that variation is the only thing too break through them....whoa!...nice way to quote common training knowledge as if it were your own unique wisdom. No shyt if my other body parts respond well to a certain training that doesn't mean that my chest will.....really?...damm....maybe thats why it is considered a "genetic deficiency" because it doesn't respond as well as other body parts. ok...let me go ahead and kill all the other bs you proposed: as for variation...lol...i have done different exercises of different weights..rep ranges....angles...grip widths...barbell....dumbell...cables..machines.... for YEARS varying my training until I found something that works the best. and in my case it has been heavier training with barbell dominant routines in the 12-16 set range ..6-10 rep range...short breaks ..in and out the gym in 45 minutes to an hour. fast..hard..and heavy..the textbook style for a naturally ectomorphic individual as myself. I switch it up VERY regularly and do dumbells more...switch up the angles....orders....rep range....set range...etc. NEVER have i done the same workout twice within at least 5- 6 weeks. I train instictively...i listen to my body. If after 10-12 sets i feel i am done...i call it a day...if at 16+ sets...then i call it a day. I do my own instictive style based on the principles and reccomendations of arnold schwarznegger for a person of my body type and in my situation. andmy chest is GROWING....oh man..ever so quickly. I simply posted this thread to see if anyone had any recpmendations that i had not thought of...but....unfortunately...none of you had anything to offer....nothing personal...you just didn't. So do not get upset....just get educated...I am not the arrogant one...evidently it is you who thinks your advice is helpful to everyone and if not that person is "ignorant." or "blinded." lol....get real kid. I've tried what you said and countless other things already....so it seems to me i am not the "inexperianced" one.

English much?

lmao.

Good luck with you 'ever so quickly growing' pecs.

-CNS

[Amorphic]

when are we actually going to see these pecs? the first pics didnt show up.

time to 'put up or shut up.' i want to see the proof here.

[Narkissos]

when are we actually going to see these pecs? the first pics didnt show up.

time to 'put up or shut up.' i want to see the proof here.

I don't

I'd prefer Monica Brant's phone number honestly.

-CNS