need to trim waistline !!

[Blackster1975]

I know this is gonna sound like a silly question but whats the best way to trim your waistline without compromising upper body mass too much ?

[Narkissos]

...Cardio.

...Diet.

Mass = muscle.

..not fat.

-CNS

[gettingBIGGERfast]

vacuums.

I just started doing vacuums. I'll let you know if Im making progress in a couple of weeks.

[Narkissos]

vacuums.

I just started doing vacuums. I'll let you know if Im making progress in a couple of weeks.

The poster asked for the 'best way'.

How can you suggest a method before you see progress?

-CNS

[Phate]

...Cardio.

...Diet.

Mass = muscle.

..not fat.

-CNS

+2, you should be doing this already, but hanging leg raises and exercising your upper and lower abs causes my waist to look slimmer, i think because the abs are contracted and this pulls the fat thinner, neway, just my .02 cents

[gettingBIGGERfast]

The poster asked for the 'best way'.

How can you suggest a method before you see progress?

-CNS

Well, I've read about them, and know they are supposed to help trim the waist, however, I don't seem to here much about them on the boards and haven't really seen anybody mention results from them.

Are you saying my suggestion wasn't valid?

Maybe I should have expanded upon saying 'vacuums.' and said, maybe you could try vacuums like I am....

[Blackster1975]

Thx for the advice guys

[Narkissos]

Well, I've read about them, and know they are supposed to help trim the waist, however, I don't seem to here much about them on the boards and haven't really seen anybody mention results from them.

Are you saying my suggestion wasn't valid?

Maybe I should have expanded upon saying 'vacuums.' and said, maybe you could try vacuums like I am....

Losing fat 'trims' the waist.

Liposuction 'trims' the waist.

Vacuums do not.

They're simply an internal contraction and hold.

i.e. a different manner of working the abs...Not spot reduction.

-CNS

[gettingBIGGERfast]

I guess you are right... but will doing vacuums not help with a distended abdomen. If you wanted to tighten you waist but are already lean, will this not help? I've read articles that claim it will, although I have to admit, that it seems a bit fishy. Unless you are just conditioning those muscles enough to where you can keep the gut sucked in all day.

[gettingBIGGERfast]

stole this from spywizard in another post

Great Stomach, No Crunches
One of the most overlooked group of abdominal muscles, the transverse muscles are the deepest lying abdominal muscles that basically act as a girdle to your entire middle section. These muscles lie horizontally and help to keep your organs in place, while putting pressure onto your abdomen. They are also the muscles you need to target if you want a flatter stomach.
They Do It All
The transverse abdominals are connected to your back muscles as well as your rectus abdominals. The rectus abdominus are your vertical abdominal muscles and are the muscles most commonly targeted when you do stomach exercises. Unfortunately, traditional stomach exercises like crunches tend to by-pass the transverse abs so no matter how many sit-ups you do, your transverse muscles will barely feel the effects.
Any fitness program that targets your core, like Pilates, will include stomach exercises that target the transverse abdominals. However, you often work these muscles without realizing it. Whenever you hold your stomach in, you are working the transverse abs. For instance, the proper position for lunges requires you to keep your back straight and how do you do that? By tightening your abdominals, or more specifically your transverse abdominals, of course.
Why They are Important to Pregnant and Post-Partum Women
Having taut transverse abdominal muscles when you are pregnant has many benefits.

* Since they are attached to your back muscles, strengthening your transverse abs can help reduce your back pain.
* Labor may be easier since you learn how to better control your abs and therefore may not need to push as much.
* The rectus abdominus often tend to split during pregnancy in order to accommodate your growing baby (this is known as diastasis). Having tight transverse abs during pregnancy can get your rectus muscles back into place faster and therefore give you a flatter stomach sooner after pregnancy.

Attending prenatal Pilates classes or taking a specialty prenatal fitness class designed to effectively work the transverse abs can help you stay fit and look great both during and after your pregnancy.

During the postpartum period, when you start exercising again, be sure to include some abdominal exercises that target the transverse abs. Not only will you quickly achieve a flatter stomach, but you should also notice an improvement in your posture and fewer backaches.
Transverse Exercises
Here are some exercises that target those hard to get to transverse muscles. If you are pregnant, consult with your health care provider before doing any of these exercises.
The No-Crunch Crunch
To do this exercise, start by lying on the floor with your knees bent and feet firmly on the floor.
Lightly place your hands just below and to the sides of your belly button. Firmly press two fingers from each hand into your lower abdomen.
Gently begin to draw your lower abdomen down towards the floor (picture a string pulling your navel towards the floor) but do not move your pelvis, raise your chest or hold your breath.
Stop drawing in your stomach as soon as you feel your muscles get tight. The muscles underneath your fingers should feel taut but the movement does not require a lot of effort. If you move too far, you will in fact stop working your transverse abs and begin to work your oblique muscles (your side abdominal muscles) instead.
Hold this position for 10 to 15 seconds, breathing normally the entire time.
Do ten repetitions. Scissor Kicks

To do this abdominal exercise, start by lying on the floor. Place your hands under your buttocks and keep your back pressed against the floor.
Raise one leg about 10 inches off the ground and slowly lower it back down. As you lower the one leg, raise the other.
Do three sets of ten repetitions. Pelvic Tilts

Lying on the floor with your back pressed against the floor, bend your knees keeping your feet on the ground.
Slowly lift your pelvis up and hold briefly before lowering slowly back down to the ground. Your upper body should remain on the floor throughout the movement.
Do three sets of 15 repetitions.
Lifted-leg Push-up
If you’re feeling very strong in your upper body, or if you just feel like multi-tasking during your workout, then give this challenging exercise a whirl.
Get into push-up position but keep your feet hip-width apart.
Raise one leg as high as you can and then do a regular push-up. Switch legs and repeat.
This is a pretty tough one, especially if you don’t have much upper-body strength, so just do as many as you can.
For an easier variation of this exercise, try this:
Get down on all fours with your hands positioned about shoulder-width apart, elbows slightly bent. Your knees should be together and positioned underneath your hips. To make the exercise more challenging, place your knees slightly behind you. Have your toes curled on the floor. Your heels should not be touching the floor.
Tighten your abs by drawing your navel in towards your spine. In a smooth, controlled motion, raise your knees off the ground. Your upper body should not move.
Hold for one breath and then slowly lower down.
Aim for three sets of ten.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Lowering carbohydrate intake in conjunction with intense resistance training is key. Cardio would be next in line with ab training coming in last!

[michaelab]

I know this is gonna sound like a silly question but whats the best way to trim your waistline without compromising upper body mass too much ?

I suggest yoga, low carb diet (No Atkins diet please!) and the last would be cardio. Best thing is to consult your physical trainer, hey by the way check out this website for more info.
http://www.davidlloydleisure.co.uk

[ChuckLee]

Yoga????!!!!??!?
And THE LAST THING cardio? It is the FIRST, after diet of course...

CL

[Narkissos]

Lowering carbohydrate intake in conjunction with intense resistance training is key. Cardio would be next in line with ab training coming in last!

I suggest yoga, low carb diet (No Atkins diet please!) and the last would be cardio. Best thing is to consult your physical trainer, hey by the way check out this website for more info.
http://www.shameless.self.plug

I agree with neither of these.

-CNS

[Blackster1975]

thx for the advice guys

[Ashop]

I know this is gonna sound like a silly question but whats the best way to trim your waistline without compromising upper body mass too much ?

losing overall bodyfat

[magic32]

...Cardio.

...Diet.

Mass = muscle.

..not fat.

-CNS

AGREED NARK, except I would have put Diet (hierarchically) first.

In addition I'd add, and this is complimentary and not a substitute for the above advice, performing midsection work to strengthen and thus tighten the natural girdle...obviously abs, obliques, but please don't overlook the very important lower back.

I also agree with Nark's comments on the above posts, some of which don't seem well thought out.
Focus on discipline and lifestyle change, and STAY AWAY FROM FADISH DIET ADVICE THAT CANNOT/SHOULD NOT BE SUSTAINED!

[Narkissos]

AGREED NARK, except I would have put Diet (hierarchically) first.

I wouldn't... I stick by the order above

We can debate this on my performance nutrition thread tho


-C

p.s. Hope all is well with you buddy.

[matt50]

cardio and diet.

[magic32]

I wouldn't... I stick by the order above

We can debate this on my performance nutrition thread tho


-C

p.s. Hope all is well with you buddy.

Are you guys (Matt included) serious???

I don't care how much cardio you do if input isn't controlled the surplus, timing, and composition of calories can easily outweigh cardio expenditure. But if the former is in check then the latter is additive, and depending on how tight your diet is and your specific goal...you may need to burn only a few extra cals (cardio).

The inverse cannot be stated, for example "If cardio is tight you may not even need to diet"...

What is the performance thread link?

[HORSE~]

What is the performance thread link?

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=341121

[magic32]

Thanks Horse I'll check it out a little later.

-------------

Nark,

I definitely see your point, it would depend on perspective and for a competitive bb'er diet would already be intact making cardio paramount. But the question wasn't asked by one, so in this case the answer should be rec oriented. Gotta do some morning cardio...seriously!!!

Later

[Narkissos]

Are you guys (Matt included) serious???

I don't care how much cardio you do if input isn't controlled the surplus, timing, and composition of calories can easily outweigh cardio expenditure. But if the former is in check then the latter is additive, and depending on how tight your diet is and your specific goal...you may need to burn only a few extra cals (cardio).

The inverse cannot be stated, for example "If cardio is tight you may not even need to diet"...

What is the performance thread link?

No need for the '' buddy.

That's just plain disrespectful..

And yes I am quite serious.

Anytime I make a statement I back it 100%.

Your misconception is in your interpretation of my statement.

All things being relative, I place the manipulation of caloric expenditure above the reduction of caloric intake.

Getting 'in shape' can be done (rather easily) at what would normally be deemed caloric excess.

I've done it for 8 years.

I've done it with my clients for 4+ years.

I've watched it being done around me for 10 years.

I've talked to my peers, pros included, who have done it for 20+ years.

Getting 'in shape' can be achieved through the manipulation of either or all of 3 variables: diet; cardio; training.

Personally, 'diet' is the last variable I adjust... Because performance nutrition is tied to performance.

I'm a bodybuilder... Ergo when I use the word 'diet', the immediate connotations would be 'clean' and 'controlled'.

Ergo, this will be the basis of any discussion I have with regard to dieting and training.

That being said, there is no reason that someone cannot get in shape while utilizing a controlled and clean hypercaloric diet.. providing that:

1. The variable of training is manipulated
2. The variable of cardio is manipulated
3. The caloric excess isn't exorbitant


...and I have seen it over and over again.

I have two guys on my board right now, two clients... One is mid-contest prep, the other is doing a contest-prep hybrid (6 month full-body recomposition: 3 month pseudo-contest prep; 3 month lean bulk).

Both are/were hypercaloric.

Both made ridiculous leaps in condition within just 2 weeks...again at 4 weeks... and are still making these jumps.

The variables I'm manipulating?

Weight-training and cardio.

Primarily the former.

I could talk about this all day.


-CNS

[HORSE~]

Nark I dont think Magic meant the smiley in a disrespectful way....

All dealing's that I have had with him leads me to belive that he is very intelagent and has a good sence of humor, the smiley being a form of his sence of humor(albeit it may not be the same as your's or mine thats what I belive it was) ....

Then agian I guess I could be wrong and he might have been telling you to suck a cock but I dont think thats the case....LOL

Take care guy's....

[texasmk4]

Magic is the man!!!! very intelligent and always right on the spot... Appreciate all the help you have provided bro... Keep up the good work.

[shifty_git]

I think your both right. lol

Output being higher than input... what ever level that input maybe...

+ Proper training on the mid section.

Can't really go wrong then.