Push and Pull Technique

[CeeLo]

I read this in a mag or something one time and it seems to work for me so I ran with it. I was just wondering what you guys think about my splits.

Mon - Chest / Biceps
Tue - Back / Triceps
Wed - Shoulder / Traps
Thurs - Chest

Sometimes I might skip Wed and pickup on Thurs w/ Shoulder and traps and Fri w/ Chest. I basically lift 4 - 5 days a week. I really don't lift legs because I have a hard time with my chest so I throw that in there twice a week.

2 days out the week I will do light cardio and try to get in some abs.

[teufelhundenjwa]

Right now I'm utilizing a Push/Pull/Leg routine. I like to pair Chest/Shoulder/Tri together, Back/Trap/Bi together, and lastly Quads/Hams/Calfs. I lift Mon, Tue, Thurs, Fri. Cardio/Abs on 2 non-consecutive days.
You need to do legs, as this will help in full body development.

[BuiltForThis]

Legs are a muscle group that should be done regardless of how weak or lagging any other body part may be. Squats will help you build an overall better physique.

[CeeLo]

Right now I'm utilizing a Push/Pull/Leg routine. I like to pair Chest/Shoulder/Tri together, Back/Trap/Bi together, and lastly Quads/Hams/Calfs. I lift Mon, Tue, Thurs, Fri. Cardio/Abs on 2 non-consecutive days.
You need to do legs, as this will help in full body development.

By Push/Pull I mean Push on the Chest and Pull with Biceps. You are kind of doing All Pushing on one day and all pulling on another day.

This is a little different approach and may be better than the one I am doing, that is kind of what I am looking for. Pro and Cons or Negatives of what I am doing as opposed to what others are doing.

The only Con that I can see about what you are doing is that you may be burning up your triceps doing bench press and when it its time for tricep exercises, you don't have the strength to go BIG.

Maybe with the way I am doing it. I may be over working the body parts by doing it on one day and then secondarily hitting that same body part a day or 2 later.

Legs are a muscle group that should be done regardless of how weak or lagging any other body part may be. Squats will help you build an overall better physique.

I agree, but I will try to incorporate legs in on my second chest day. I may have to save my cardio for a home and do some running around the hood!

[hauss man]

I read this in a mag or something one time and it seems to work for me so I ran with it. I was just wondering what you guys think about my splits.

Mon - Chest / Biceps
Tue - Back / Triceps
Wed - Shoulder / Traps
Thurs - Chest

Sometimes I might skip Wed and pickup on Thurs w/ Shoulder and traps and Fri w/ Chest. I basically lift 4 - 5 days a week. I really don't lift legs because I have a hard time with my chest so I throw that in there twice a week.

2 days out the week I will do light cardio and try to get in some abs.

thats a horrible split. you do zero work for your lowerbody and your triceps are getting hit everyday.

[DSM4Life]

Doesnt matter what we think. Try it for yourself and see how it works.

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

I think you should follow something more like this:

DAILY

MID SECTION & AEROBIC WORK
10-15 minutes of intense cardio
Crunches, Leg Raises, Rope Tuck, Hyperextensions

MONDAY/THURSDAY

CHEST & TRICEPS
Dumbbell Chest Press (3 or 4x10-12)
Incline Dumbbell Press (3 or 4x8-10)
Cable Crossovers (3 or 4x10-12)
Tricep Press Machine or Dips (3 or 4x12)
Pulley Pushdowns (3 or 4x12)

TUESDAY/FRIDAY

BACK & BICEPS
Close Grip Chins (or C/G Pulldowns) (3 or 4x12)
Wide Grip Pulldowns (3 or 4x10-12)
One Arm Dumbbell Row (3 or 4x4-6)
Barbell Curls (3 or 4x8-10)
Biceps Machine Curls (3 or 4x8-10)

WEDNESDAY

LEGS
Squats or Leg Press (3-4x12, 10, 8, 6)
Lunges (3-4x12)

Leg Extension (3-4x15)
supersetted with
Leg Curls (3-4x10-12)

Calf Raises (3-4x20)

[bhamstaff]

i do a push/pull/leg routine and found it to be the best mass building routine ive ever done

monday- legs
wed- shoulders tricep chest
friday- back, bicep

[CeeLo]

I think you should follow something more like this:

DAILY

MID SECTION & AEROBIC WORK
10-15 minutes of intense cardio
Crunches, Leg Raises, Rope Tuck, Hyperextensions

MONDAY/THURSDAY

CHEST & TRICEPS
Dumbbell Chest Press (3 or 4x10-12)
Incline Dumbbell Press (3 or 4x8-10)
Cable Crossovers (3 or 4x10-12)
Tricep Press Machine or Dips (3 or 4x12)
Pulley Pushdowns (3 or 4x12)

TUESDAY/FRIDAY

BACK & BICEPS
Close Grip Chins (or C/G Pulldowns) (3 or 4x12)
Wide Grip Pulldowns (3 or 4x10-12)
One Arm Dumbbell Row (3 or 4x4-6)
Barbell Curls (3 or 4x8-10)
Biceps Machine Curls (3 or 4x8-10)

WEDNESDAY

LEGS
Squats or Leg Press (3-4x12, 10, 8, 6)
Lunges (3-4x12)

Leg Extension (3-4x15)
supersetted with
Leg Curls (3-4x10-12)

Calf Raises (3-4x20)

Ok, I'm liking this one, but what about Traps and Shoulders. I see NO traps or Shoulders! I can't believe you left those out. Those are some of my best assests.

Please help, I would like to build off this routine!!!!!!

[CeeLo]

thats a horrible split. you do zero work for your lowerbody and your triceps are getting hit everyday.

I agree, so how about a little advice on how to curtail it.

[CeeLo]

Doesnt matter what we think. Try it for yourself and see how it works.

Contrair' DSM, it does matter that's why we have a FORUM. To get help and opinons. If you have NO input or your inputs are meant to be sarcastic, keep them to yourself.

But its cool to, I know that every board has to have a few guys like you. Thanks to everyone for all the positive inputs.

Ever heard of "Its not practice makes perferct, but perfect practice make perfect".

You can keep doing something to you are blue in the balls and not make progress. Then someone comes along and steers you in a different direction and BAM!

Although I have lifted for 4 or 5 years and have made progress, there's always another way or a better way!

[CeeLo]

How about something like: I think I need to lower the Reps Also for MASS

MONDAY/THURSDAY

CHEST & TRICEPS I will alternate Dumbell and Barbells on Mon and Thurs.
Dumbbell Chest Press (3 or 4x6-8)
Incline Dumbbell Press (3 or 4x6-8)
Decline Dumbell Press (3 or 4x6-8)
Cable Crossovers (3 or 4x6-8)
Tricep Press Machine or Dips (3 or 4x6-8)
Pulley Pushdowns (3 or 4x6-8)

TUESDAY/FRIDAY

BACK & BICEPS
Close Grip Chins (or C/G Pulldowns) (3 or 4x6-8)
Wide Grip Pulldowns (3 or 4x6-8)
One Arm Dumbbell Row (3 or 4x4-6)
Barbell Curls (3 or 4x6-8)
Biceps Machine Curls (3 or 4x6-8)


WEDNESDAY

Shoulders / Traps

Military Press Front (3 or 4x6-8)
Military Press Back (3 or 4x6-8)
Side Lateral Raises (3 or 4x6-8)
Front Lateral Raises (3 or 4x6-8)
Bar Shrugs (3 or 4x6-8)
Dumbell Shrugs (3 or 4x6-8)


FRIDAY

LEGS
Squats or Leg Press (3-4x12, 10, 8, 6)


Leg Extension (3-4x15)
supersetted with
Leg Curls (3-4x10-12)

Calf Raises (3-4x20)

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

Ok, I'm liking this one, but what about Traps and Shoulders. I see NO traps or Shoulders! I can't believe you left those out. Those are some of my best assests.

Please help, I would like to build off this routine!!!!!!

How bout hitting shoulders and traps hard on saturday?

Then again, that doesn't leave much off time.

btw, its not one I made up, I found it. So all those set and reps are really up 2 you and what works for you ya know.

Maybe, put them with legs on friday...?
or put shoulders with chest/tris and traps with back/bis..??

[DSM4Life]

Contrair' DSM, it does matter that's why we have a FORUM. To get help and opinons. If you have NO input or your inputs are meant to be sarcastic, keep them to yourself.

But its cool to, I know that every board has to have a few guys like you. Thanks to everyone for all the positive inputs.

Ever heard of "Its not practice makes perferct, but perfect practice make perfect".

You can keep doing something to you are blue in the balls and not make progress. Then someone comes along and steers you in a different direction and BAM!

Although I have lifted for 4 or 5 years and have made progress, there's always another way or a better way!

Are you getting hissy with me ?


I have tried the pull/push and i don't like it. I just hit one muscle a day and and schedule each so they don't get overtrained or hinder the following days workout.

mon- back (bi is 2secondary getting worked)
(lats do get worked with back then again with chest so i change these days by switching which comes first)
tue - chest (while tri is 2secondary getting worked)
wed - legs (rest upper body)
thur - shoulders (tris also get worked)
fri - arms

I try to schedule with the secondary muscles in mind. I don't actually work the secondary muscles directly like some due rather just let them aid in my major lift then give a long rest period before they are worked again.

I am however going to try and work muscles twice a week but with less intensity just to change things up a bit then go back to my normal routine. Its all about change.

[Phate]

How about something like: I think I need to lower the Reps Also for MASS

MONDAY/THURSDAY

CHEST & TRICEPS I will alternate Dumbell and Barbells on Mon and Thurs.
Dumbbell Chest Press (3 or 4x6-8)
Incline Dumbbell Press (3 or 4x6-8)
Decline Dumbell Press (3 or 4x6-8)
Cable Crossovers (3 or 4x6-8)
Tricep Press Machine or Dips (3 or 4x6-8)
Pulley Pushdowns (3 or 4x6-8)

TUESDAY/FRIDAY

BACK & BICEPS
Close Grip Chins (or C/G Pulldowns) (3 or 4x6-8)
Wide Grip Pulldowns (3 or 4x6-8)
One Arm Dumbbell Row (3 or 4x4-6)
Barbell Curls (3 or 4x6-8)
Biceps Machine Curls (3 or 4x6-8)


WEDNESDAY

Shoulders / Traps

Military Press Front (3 or 4x6-8)
Military Press Back (3 or 4x6-8)
Side Lateral Raises (3 or 4x6-8)
Front Lateral Raises (3 or 4x6-8)
Bar Shrugs (3 or 4x6-8)
Dumbell Shrugs (3 or 4x6-8)


FRIDAY

LEGS
Squats or Leg Press (3-4x12, 10, 8, 6)


Leg Extension (3-4x15)
supersetted with
Leg Curls (3-4x10-12)

Calf Raises (3-4x20)

personally i think this is overtraining because you are working out 6 days a week without a rest day, then resting one day and back to it, not enough rest in my opinion

[TR'05]

What are your goals?

This is a hell of a collection of poor routines- no legs is laughable anyway you cut it.

[CeeLo]

Yeah, that is overworking, I missed something there. I got Friday in there twice. I can't have to Friday in one week. Yes, I would like to keep it to 4 days. Back to the drawing board.

personally i think this is overtraining because you are working out 6 days a week without a rest day, then resting one day and back to it, not enough rest in my opinion

DSM.... Just a little fun bickering. Its all good dude!

Are you getting hissy with me ?


I have tried the pull/push and i don't like it. I just hit one muscle a day and and schedule each so they don't get overtrained or hinder the following days workout.

mon- back (bi is 2secondary getting worked)
(lats do get worked with back then again with chest so i change these days by switching which comes first)
tue - chest (while tri is 2secondary getting worked)
wed - legs (rest upper body)
thur - shoulders (tris also get worked)
fri - arms

I try to schedule with the secondary muscles in mind. I don't actually work the secondary muscles directly like some due rather just let them aid in my major lift then give a long rest period before they are worked again.

I am however going to try and work muscles twice a week but with less intensity just to change things up a bit then go back to my normal routine. Its all about change.

[CeeLo]

Maybe this. I really wish I could leave out legs and I think that I want the chest twice still. So I got it to 4 days. Still hitting chest twice (with 48 hrs rest) and adding legs days in all other body parts once.

MONDAY

CHEST & TRICEPS
Barbell Chest Press (3 or 4x6-8)
Incline Barbell Press (3 or 4x6-8)
Decline Barbell Press (3 or 4x6-8)
Cable Crossovers (3 or 4x6-8)
Tricep Press Machine or Dips (3 or 4x6-8)
Pulley Pushdowns (3 or 4x6-8)

TUESDAY

BACK & BICEPS
Close Grip Chins (or C/G Pulldowns) (3 or 4x6-8)
Wide Grip Pulldowns (3 or 4x6-8)
One Arm Dumbbell Row (3 or 4x4-6)
Barbell Curls (3 or 4x6-8)
Biceps Machine Curls (3 or 4x6-8)


WEDNESDAY

Shoulders / Traps

Military Press Front (3 or 4x6-8)
Military Press Back (3 or 4x6-8)
Side Lateral Raises (3 or 4x6-8)
Front Lateral Raises (3 or 4x6-8)
Bar Shrugs (3 or 4x6-8)
Dumbell Shrugs (3 or 4x6-8)


FRIDAY

LEGS / CHEST
Squats or Leg Press (3-4x12, 10, 8, 6)
Leg Extension (3-4x15) supersetted with Leg Curls (3-4x10-12)
Calf Raises (3-4x20)
DumbellChest Press (3 or 4x6-8)
Incline Dumbell Press (3 or 4x6-8)
Decline Dumbell Press (3 or 4x6-8)
Cable Crossovers (3 or 4x6-8)

[DSM4Life]

Hitting a muscle twice a week ok but to be hitting it twice a week with that volume (chest), i give it a thumbs down IMO.

[CeeLo]

What are your goals?

This is a hell of a collection of poor routines- no legs is laughable anyway you cut it.

My goals really are to be super tight on the upper body. I realize that I am sacrificing my legs, but I'm not in it to compete. However, I am willing to throw some leg work in.

Ok, right now I am 5'11, 208, about 17% bodyfat

I want to be 5'11, 220(ish), with Sub 10 Bodyfat.

[binder]

This is a hell of a collection of poor routines-

lol


i switch from the conventional to the push/pull. i just started back on my push/pull setup because i can really burn out a muscle group that way. it lets me work to failure on a specific muscle group for my conditioning.

the days rotate but basically its:

mon: chest/biceps
tues: quads
weds: back/triceps
thurs: hamstrings (with deadlift so slight back)
friday: shoulders/traps

abs every day
calves m/w/f
forearm curls tues/thurs

3 exercises each muscle group. i vary things, try new exercises to hit all angles of the muscles for maximum separation and definition.

[CeeLo]

Dang, See is the way I was doing it w/o the legs and apparently, I was hitting traps like everyday.

Why do you split the legs up?

lol


i switch from the conventional to the push/pull. i just started back on my push/pull setup because i can really burn out a muscle group that way. it lets me work to failure on a specific muscle group for my conditioning.

the days rotate but basically its:

mon: chest/biceps
tues: quads
weds: back/triceps
thurs: hamstrings (with deadlift so slight back)
friday: shoulders/traps

abs every day
calves m/w/f
forearm curls tues/thurs

3 exercises each muscle group. i vary things, try new exercises to hit all angles of the muscles for maximum separation and definition.

[CeeLo]

Hitting a muscle twice a week ok but to be hitting it twice a week with that volume (chest), i give it a thumbs down IMO.

I understand what you are saying DSM, but I thought that the 48 hrs would be ok. I really have seen a difference when I went to 2 a week on the chest. This is the on bodypart that I do twice a week, because for me, it is the slowest to grow.

Not that I am a mojor juicer or really any if compared to you guys, but I thought that supps would allow your body to heal quicker and therefoe be able to train more frequent.

[TR'05]

Alright, it's much easier to find a properly put together program then to throw a piece work routine together.

Simple splits:

Day 1: Chest/Back
Day 2: Legs/Ab
Day 3: OFF
Day 4: Shoulders/Arms
Day 5: OFF

REPEAT

You can also do wonders, progress-wise, from a basic Westside template:

Day 1: Dynamic Effort Upper
Day 2: Max Effort Lower
Day 3: OFF
Day 4: Max Effort Upper
Day 5: Dynamic Effort Lower (higher rep/speed work)
Day 6: OFF

REPEAT

Joe Defrancos WS4SB programs are easy to manipulate.


When putting together a proper program you have to keep in mind training frequency, time under tension, exercise selection, set and rep ranges, strength curves, weak point, goals (for example, strength, hypertrophy, etc.)...the list goes on.

Truth be told, very very few people have the ability to put together a decent program. I mean this in the most respectful way, but the fact that you did not even include legs in a basic training program is indicative of a lack of research.

With that said, the internet is pretty ripe with decently put together programs which are widely available. Charles Poiliquin has some outstanding routines in Modern Trends for Strength Training. Joe Defrancos WS4SB routines are widely praised- I haven't read a negative review. DC training techniques are easy to obtain.

There is a sticky, in fact, on different lifting programs. I highly suggest you check this out.

Not unlike many, many other trainees, I thought I knew how to train- I lifted to years thinking I did. Then one day, you'll see the results obtained via a well thought out routine and you'll realize that "this is how to bodybuild/strength train/powerlift/etc.

[DSM4Life]

I understand what you are saying DSM, but I thought that the 48 hrs would be ok. I really have seen a difference when I went to 2 a week on the chest. This is the on bodypart that I do twice a week, because for me, it is the slowest to grow.

Not that I am a mojor juicer or really any if compared to you guys, but I thought that supps would allow your body to heal quicker and therefoe be able to train more frequent.

I sometimes hit chest twice a week as well but i will go super intense one day (low reps) then lighter weight the second but again if you are making progress then keep it up.

[binder]

Dang, See is the way I was doing it w/o the legs and apparently, I was hitting traps like everyday.

Why do you split the legs up?

because i train them hard as hell.

quads are the largest muscle group in the body. when i hit them that hard i don't have energy to train anything else. I make sure to concentrate on working them quality. If i split them i can give them both the dedication they need.

competition requires great legs. You have to hit legs super strong and very strict to get them to grow. Strong muscles take longer to grow because they have to reach their maximum strength first, then they'll start to grow with increased strength.

[CeeLo]

I sometimes hit chest twice a week as well but i will go super intense one day (low reps) then lighter weight the second but again if you are making progress then keep it up.

That's actually how I do it as well.

[CeeLo]

Man, you just split my head with this one. Lots of knowledge in this post. I just have to read it like 6 times to be able to digest it and understand it.

Alright, it's much easier to find a properly put together program then to throw a piece work routine together.

Simple splits:

Day 1: Chest/Back
Day 2: Legs/Ab
Day 3: OFF
Day 4: Shoulders/Arms
Day 5: OFF

REPEAT

You can also do wonders, progress-wise, from a basic Westside template:

Day 1: Dynamic Effort Upper
Day 2: Max Effort Lower
Day 3: OFF
Day 4: Max Effort Upper
Day 5: Dynamic Effort Lower (higher rep/speed work)
Day 6: OFF

REPEAT

Joe Defrancos WS4SB programs are easy to manipulate.


When putting together a proper program you have to keep in mind training frequency, time under tension, exercise selection, set and rep ranges, strength curves, weak point, goals (for example, strength, hypertrophy, etc.)...the list goes on.

Truth be told, very very few people have the ability to put together a decent program. I mean this in the most respectful way, but the fact that you did not even include legs in a basic training program is indicative of a lack of research.

With that said, the internet is pretty ripe with decently put together programs which are widely available. Charles Poiliquin has some outstanding routines in Modern Trends for Strength Training. Joe Defrancos WS4SB routines are widely praised- I haven't read a negative review. DC training techniques are easy to obtain.

There is a sticky, in fact, on different lifting programs. I highly suggest you check this out.

Not unlike many, many other trainees, I thought I knew how to train- I lifted to years thinking I did. Then one day, you'll see the results obtained via a well thought out routine and you'll realize that "this is how to bodybuild/strength train/powerlift/etc.

[CeeLo]

I understand. You guys have inspired me to start back with legs. Thank you soooo much!

because i train them hard as hell.

quads are the largest muscle group in the body. when i hit them that hard i don't have energy to train anything else. I make sure to concentrate on working them quality. If i split them i can give them both the dedication they need.

competition requires great legs. You have to hit legs super strong and very strict to get them to grow. Strong muscles take longer to grow because they have to reach their maximum strength first, then they'll start to grow with increased strength.

[CeeLo]

Can you explain the "westside" template. What is meant by Dynamic and Max? I think that you are doing upper Say Mon and Thurs then lower on Tues and Friday, correct? But what is meant by DYNAMIC and MAX ?

...
You can also do wonders, progress-wise, from a basic Westside template:

Day 1: Dynamic Effort Upper
Day 2: Max Effort Lower
Day 3: OFF
Day 4: Max Effort Upper
Day 5: Dynamic Effort Lower (higher rep/speed work)
Day 6: OFF

REPEAT
...

[Phate]

is that you in your pic, if so then your not sub 10 bf

[TR'05]

is that you in your pic, if so then your not sub 10 bf

Sub 10% is his goal. He places himself at 17%

To the thread starter, I will hit you with a PM or reply in this thread tomorrow- I have to head out for the evening.

With a sound training and dieting protocol, sub 10% is certainly attainable. I'll get at you tomorrow.

[CeeLo]

Sub 10% is his goal. He places himself at 17%

To the thread starter, I will hit you with a PM or reply in this thread tomorrow- I have to head out for the evening.

With a sound training and dieting protocol, sub 10% is certainly attainable. I'll get at you tomorrow.

Thanks, I appreciate that

[CeeLo]

Check me out here! http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/CeeLo/